Camping / Getting Tunneled Off The Hook PSA
Comments
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@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@lasombra1979 said:
I think your intentions are correct, finding a way to prevent first hook death. The thing is, it is a part of the game and honestly, it is not broken. Yes it sucks, but that does not mean it is broken. You have short games, it happens. Some games you will get hooked three times, some two, some just once. Some games you will get moried. It is the nature of the game.Giving a survivor a free perk is a punishment to all killers, not just your campers/tunnelers. This mechanic would be so greatly abused, would give tons of unsafe hooks that turn into safe hooks because of the free burrowed time. Then add to it Deliverance, where survivors can unhook themselves if they get a safe unhook. You would have created a new meta.
You are putting killers even more behind the eight ball.
You just proved that you comment without reading, I stated earlier that activating the borrowed time effect on someones first hook should count as an unsafe hook rescue (unless the rescuer is running the perk "borrowed time").
You are right, I missed that point. That does not show I did not read though. Just shows my memory sucks. Also, I have not been rude or disrespectful to you in this post. There is absolutely no reason for you to be disrespectful towards me.
That said, you are wanting an additional mechanic added that would in turn punish survivors who unhook safely. So if there is no camping going on, you unhook a survivor first hook, you do not get a safety hook. What is happening is this QoL change is actually ending up punishing everyone but hook farmers and die hard campers because honestly, they wont care anyways.
I commend you for trying to think up a way to help players, esp new survivors. I just do not see this fix as being the way to do it. There is too many things with it that punishes rather than aids.
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@SpongeBob420Pants said:
TLDR: A "first hook" rescue should automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect (that would stack with the perk) to discourage camping/tunneling and reduce toxicity in the game.*EDIT: I've also suggested in a comment further down a benefit to killer- "It would be cool if killers got double sacrifice blood points for hooking a different survivor from the one they hooked last."
The killers will just chase after you for the duration. They already do that for BT.
I also think there should be more benefit for switching targets instead of tunneling the last hooked, though giving survivors more to do while working on gens (like finding fuel cans, etc.) may also help as killers may feel pressured to get the 4k and win.
Perhaps more to punish camping and tunneling point-wise may also be helpful.
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follows for 10 seconds
either they go down after 10 seconds or i down them
Fixed!1 -
You know this comment section is really funny, some people complain that this wouldn't change anything and isn't even worth implementing and some people complain that it would be too OP. Amazing.
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@fluffybunny said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
TLDR: A "first hook" rescue should automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect (that would stack with the perk) to discourage camping/tunneling and reduce toxicity in the game.*EDIT: I've also suggested in a comment further down a benefit to killer- "It would be cool if killers got double sacrifice blood points for hooking a different survivor from the one they hooked last."
The killers will just chase after you for the duration. They already do that for BT.
I also think there should be more benefit for switching targets instead of tunneling the last hooked, though giving survivors more to do while working on gens (like finding fuel cans, etc.) may also help as killers may feel pressured to get the 4k and win.
Perhaps more to punish camping and tunneling point-wise may also be helpful.
Punishment does not work. Hook vultures are proof of that.
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@SpongeBob420Pants said:
You know this comment section is really funny, some people complain that this wouldn't change anything and isn't even worth implementing and some people complain that it would be too OP. Amazing.You're surprised that different people have different points of view and different opinions on the same subject?
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@Boss said:
follows for 10 seconds
either they go down after 10 seconds or i down them
Fixed!It seems you're unaware that the borrowed time mechanic has been changed and now uses the deep wounds effect.
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@Orion said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
You know this comment section is really funny, some people complain that this wouldn't change anything and isn't even worth implementing and some people complain that it would be too OP. Amazing.You're surprised that different people have different points of view and different opinions on the same subject?
No, don't be ridiculous/stupid. I'm amazed that out of the people commenting there are just as many that think it's to weak to matter as there are those who think it's so strong it's laughable.
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@Orion said:
@fluffybunny said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
TLDR: A "first hook" rescue should automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect (that would stack with the perk) to discourage camping/tunneling and reduce toxicity in the game.*EDIT: I've also suggested in a comment further down a benefit to killer- "It would be cool if killers got double sacrifice blood points for hooking a different survivor from the one they hooked last."
The killers will just chase after you for the duration. They already do that for BT.
I also think there should be more benefit for switching targets instead of tunneling the last hooked, though giving survivors more to do while working on gens (like finding fuel cans, etc.) may also help as killers may feel pressured to get the 4k and win.
Perhaps more to punish camping and tunneling point-wise may also be helpful.
Punishment does not work. Hook vultures are proof of that.
Regardless I don't think camping and tunneling should be an easy way to rank up and I've been told by people that it is.
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@fluffybunny said:
@Orion said:
@fluffybunny said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
TLDR: A "first hook" rescue should automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect (that would stack with the perk) to discourage camping/tunneling and reduce toxicity in the game.*EDIT: I've also suggested in a comment further down a benefit to killer- "It would be cool if killers got double sacrifice blood points for hooking a different survivor from the one they hooked last."
The killers will just chase after you for the duration. They already do that for BT.
I also think there should be more benefit for switching targets instead of tunneling the last hooked, though giving survivors more to do while working on gens (like finding fuel cans, etc.) may also help as killers may feel pressured to get the 4k and win.
Perhaps more to punish camping and tunneling point-wise may also be helpful.
Punishment does not work. Hook vultures are proof of that.
Regardless I don't think camping and tunneling should be an easy way to rank up and I've been told by people that it is.
If Killers rank up by camping, it's because Survivors fed them. There's no reason a camper should get more than one kill - if they even get the one.
What you call "tunneling" is really called "going for the weak link" or "playing efficiently" or "playing smart". If you see a generator at 90% and another at 0%, you don't go for the 0%, do you?0 -
@fluffybunny said:
@Orion said:
@fluffybunny said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
TLDR: A "first hook" rescue should automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect (that would stack with the perk) to discourage camping/tunneling and reduce toxicity in the game.*EDIT: I've also suggested in a comment further down a benefit to killer- "It would be cool if killers got double sacrifice blood points for hooking a different survivor from the one they hooked last."
The killers will just chase after you for the duration. They already do that for BT.
I also think there should be more benefit for switching targets instead of tunneling the last hooked, though giving survivors more to do while working on gens (like finding fuel cans, etc.) may also help as killers may feel pressured to get the 4k and win.
Perhaps more to punish camping and tunneling point-wise may also be helpful.
Punishment does not work. Hook vultures are proof of that.
Regardless I don't think camping and tunneling should be an easy way to rank up and I've been told by people that it is.
If you rank up from camping, you have had scores of potato survivors in your lobby and you are one lucky camper.
Tunneling is a bit of a tricker topic because exactly what is camping? Is it going after an already injured survivor as compared to that healthy survivor? Take out the weak link. Is it going after that Meg you know was already on the hook twice as compared to that Dwight you haven't hooked yet? Again, weak link. That is not tunneling, that is making a smart play. Now if you spend the entire match hunting that Jake with the flashlight and ignore everyone on gens, yeah that is tunneling and no, you wont rank up that way.
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@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Boss said:
follows for 10 seconds
either they go down after 10 seconds or i down them
Fixed!It seems you're unaware that the borrowed time mechanic has been changed and now uses the deep wounds effect.
It seems you're unaware that a 10-second BT is utter useless.
You think it's really not that easy?
I've encountered people affected by BT twice today who bolted for loops and whatnot immediately.
A 10-second headstart is utter useless.0 -
What can be done is simple. You ignore as have been the people that cry and assert their entitlement to a second chance and you carry on as normal. Consider yourself dead on hook. If you do not die then you were lucky.
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@Boss said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Boss said:
follows for 10 seconds
either they go down after 10 seconds or i down them
Fixed!It seems you're unaware that the borrowed time mechanic has been changed and now uses the deep wounds effect.
It seems you're unaware that a 10-second BT is utter useless.
You think it's really not that easy?
I've encountered people affected by BT twice today who bolted for loops and whatnot immediately.
A 10-second headstart is utter useless.You say it's useless, other people say it's useless, yet just as many people say it's so strong it's laughable.
If it's such a weak change it doesn't effect you what exactly is your problem?
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@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Boss said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Boss said:
follows for 10 seconds
either they go down after 10 seconds or i down them
Fixed!It seems you're unaware that the borrowed time mechanic has been changed and now uses the deep wounds effect.
It seems you're unaware that a 10-second BT is utter useless.
You think it's really not that easy?
I've encountered people affected by BT twice today who bolted for loops and whatnot immediately.
A 10-second headstart is utter useless.You say it's useless, other people say it's useless, yet just as many people say it's so strong it's laughable.
If it's such a weak change it doesn't effect you what exactly is your problem?
The problem is that useless additions don't need time and money to be made.
Besides, if "just as many people" say it's too strong, then it shouldn't be put in anyway, since "just as many people" will be affected.
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@Orion said:
@fluffybunny said:
@Orion said:
@fluffybunny said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
TLDR: A "first hook" rescue should automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect (that would stack with the perk) to discourage camping/tunneling and reduce toxicity in the game.*EDIT: I've also suggested in a comment further down a benefit to killer- "It would be cool if killers got double sacrifice blood points for hooking a different survivor from the one they hooked last."
The killers will just chase after you for the duration. They already do that for BT.
I also think there should be more benefit for switching targets instead of tunneling the last hooked, though giving survivors more to do while working on gens (like finding fuel cans, etc.) may also help as killers may feel pressured to get the 4k and win.
Perhaps more to punish camping and tunneling point-wise may also be helpful.
Punishment does not work. Hook vultures are proof of that.
Regardless I don't think camping and tunneling should be an easy way to rank up and I've been told by people that it is.
If Killers rank up by camping, it's because Survivors fed them. There's no reason a camper should get more than one kill - if they even get the one.
What you call "tunneling" is really called "going for the weak link" or "playing efficiently" or "playing smart". If you see a generator at 90% and another at 0%, you don't go for the 0%, do you?I don't know how many times I have to say this, but it's more akin to looping a really strong tile over and over than a gen. Generators involve a computer entity that doesn't have feelings and doesn't obtain points from things they do in the match. If you loop a killer all game and they get ######### for points 'cause you kept going to OP loop points where they have little to no hope of catching you, that's similar to someone being chased after being hooked. The only thing is, killer has full control. You're ######### out of luck if someone farms you or if you have no good loop spots nearby you and the other person doesn't try to take a hit or the killer's attention.
TL;DR Camping is akin to looping. Both include actual players while gens do not.
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@lasombra1979 said:
@fluffybunny said:
@Orion said:
@fluffybunny said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
TLDR: A "first hook" rescue should automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect (that would stack with the perk) to discourage camping/tunneling and reduce toxicity in the game.*EDIT: I've also suggested in a comment further down a benefit to killer- "It would be cool if killers got double sacrifice blood points for hooking a different survivor from the one they hooked last."
The killers will just chase after you for the duration. They already do that for BT.
I also think there should be more benefit for switching targets instead of tunneling the last hooked, though giving survivors more to do while working on gens (like finding fuel cans, etc.) may also help as killers may feel pressured to get the 4k and win.
Perhaps more to punish camping and tunneling point-wise may also be helpful.
Punishment does not work. Hook vultures are proof of that.
Regardless I don't think camping and tunneling should be an easy way to rank up and I've been told by people that it is.
If you rank up from camping, you have had scores of potato survivors in your lobby and you are one lucky camper.
Tunneling is a bit of a tricker topic because exactly what is camping? Is it going after an already injured survivor as compared to that healthy survivor? Take out the weak link. Is it going after that Meg you know was already on the hook twice as compared to that Dwight you haven't hooked yet? Again, weak link. That is not tunneling, that is making a smart play. Now if you spend the entire match hunting that Jake with the flashlight and ignore everyone on gens, yeah that is tunneling and no, you wont rank up that way.
I mean I asked someone who was camping and he told me it was an easy way of obtaining pips. I don't know how it actually is as I don't camp. I'll apply pressure if someone farms behind me, but that's basically it. Camping is boring imo for both sides.
I mean, I get that, but it's also making it likely the tunneled person doesn't get that much points as they're spending the entire game running from the killer. They don't get to do gens or go for saves. A lot of times it'll affect everyone's points and it often isn't the survivor's fault. If I'm playing solo and someone just happens to farm me, I'm ultimately the one punished for the act of another. There's little to no way to tell they'd do that ahead of time, either, unless you see them doing it in the match. That would involve avoiding being caught, though. The farmers are often following around the hurt people to make sure they get the unhook. And yeah. XD It'd be better to go after someone who aren't currently in their element.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
What can be done is simple. You ignore as have been the people that cry and assert their entitlement to a second chance and you carry on as normal. Consider yourself dead on hook. If you do not die then you were lucky."Dying on your first hook do to an unsafe hook rescue = entitled." Nice one.
The purpose of a video game forum is to discuss ways to improve the game, telling people to "ignore" posts instead of talking about them is disgraceful especially since you didn't even state which part of the OP you disagree with.
*Edit: Typo
Post edited by SpongeBob420Pants on0 -
@Boss said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Boss said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Boss said:
follows for 10 seconds
either they go down after 10 seconds or i down them
Fixed!It seems you're unaware that the borrowed time mechanic has been changed and now uses the deep wounds effect.
It seems you're unaware that a 10-second BT is utter useless.
You think it's really not that easy?
I've encountered people affected by BT twice today who bolted for loops and whatnot immediately.
A 10-second headstart is utter useless.You say it's useless, other people say it's useless, yet just as many people say it's so strong it's laughable.
If it's such a weak change it doesn't effect you what exactly is your problem?
The problem is that useless additions don't need time and money to be made.
Besides, if "just as many people" say it's too strong, then it shouldn't be put in anyway, since "just as many people" will be affected.
Except this change wouldn't be useless, that's your opinion and there's just as many who have the exact opposite opinion as those who share it. It also seems like your saying it shouldn't be added because it's too weak for some and too strong for others, but that's just crazy.
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@Boss said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Boss said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Boss said:
follows for 10 seconds
either they go down after 10 seconds or i down them
Fixed!It seems you're unaware that the borrowed time mechanic has been changed and now uses the deep wounds effect.
It seems you're unaware that a 10-second BT is utter useless.
You think it's really not that easy?
I've encountered people affected by BT twice today who bolted for loops and whatnot immediately.
A 10-second headstart is utter useless.You say it's useless, other people say it's useless, yet just as many people say it's so strong it's laughable.
If it's such a weak change it doesn't effect you what exactly is your problem?
The problem is that useless additions don't need time and money to be made.
Besides, if "just as many people" say it's too strong, then it shouldn't be put in anyway, since "just as many people" will be affected.
It can't simultaneously be too weak and too strong.
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@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
What can be done is simple. You ignore as have been the people that cry and assert their entitlement to a second chance and you carry on as normal. Consider yourself dead on hook. If you do not die then you were lucky."Not dying on your first hook do to an unsafe hook rescue = entitled." Nice one.
The purpose of a video game forum is to discuss ways to improve the game, telling people to "ignore" posts instead of talking about them is disgraceful especially since you didn't even state which part of the OP you disagree with.
Just because you repeatedly as a group bring up the same bad point doesn't make it an issue or worth entertaining. You have no entitlement to a second chance. If you did you would automatically get off the hook and start somewhere new randomly. As long as that doesn't happen you have no entitlement to it. No change you implement will alleviate being targeted repeatedly and taken out of the game and only serve to create unnecessary mechanics and unworkable or exploitable systems.
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@fluffybunny said:
@lasombra1979 said:
@fluffybunny said:
@Orion said:
@fluffybunny said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
TLDR: A "first hook" rescue should automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect (that would stack with the perk) to discourage camping/tunneling and reduce toxicity in the game.*EDIT: I've also suggested in a comment further down a benefit to killer- "It would be cool if killers got double sacrifice blood points for hooking a different survivor from the one they hooked last."
The killers will just chase after you for the duration. They already do that for BT.
I also think there should be more benefit for switching targets instead of tunneling the last hooked, though giving survivors more to do while working on gens (like finding fuel cans, etc.) may also help as killers may feel pressured to get the 4k and win.
Perhaps more to punish camping and tunneling point-wise may also be helpful.
Punishment does not work. Hook vultures are proof of that.
Regardless I don't think camping and tunneling should be an easy way to rank up and I've been told by people that it is.
If you rank up from camping, you have had scores of potato survivors in your lobby and you are one lucky camper.
Tunneling is a bit of a tricker topic because exactly what is camping? Is it going after an already injured survivor as compared to that healthy survivor? Take out the weak link. Is it going after that Meg you know was already on the hook twice as compared to that Dwight you haven't hooked yet? Again, weak link. That is not tunneling, that is making a smart play. Now if you spend the entire match hunting that Jake with the flashlight and ignore everyone on gens, yeah that is tunneling and no, you wont rank up that way.
I mean I asked someone who was camping and he told me it was an easy way of obtaining pips. I don't know how it actually is as I don't camp. I'll apply pressure if someone farms behind me, but that's basically it. Camping is boring imo for both sides.
I mean, I get that, but it's also making it likely the tunneled person doesn't get that much points as they're spending the entire game running from the killer. They don't get to do gens or go for saves. A lot of times it'll affect everyone's points and it often isn't the survivor's fault. If I'm playing solo and someone just happens to farm me, I'm ultimately the one punished for the act of another. There's little to no way to tell they'd do that ahead of time, either, unless you see them doing it in the match. That would involve avoiding being caught, though. The farmers are often following around the hurt people to make sure they get the unhook. And yeah. XD It'd be better to go after someone who aren't currently in their element.
First off, I realize in my second point I accidentally said camping when I meant tunneling. I apologize.
I agree camping is completely boring for both sides, and it is a tactic I rarely use. But it is a tactic I have used. I have no shame admitting it.
With the old ranking system, camping did benefit a bit more for ranking. With the current embelm system, camping highly reduces your chances to pip unless the survivors are idiots and feed the killer. Survivors should be able to get done at least 2 gens if not 3 in the time of a full camp. They should have gens 3-5 being worked on. That said, if the first survivor tries to free themselves, slips on struggle or suicides, it benefits the killer and rewards the camp.
Tunneling to me is that tricky topic.
As a survivor, I both hate and love tunneling. If the killer is somewhat skilled, it provides a very fun and tense experience. If the killer is very skilled, yeah it sucks because they got me dead to rights. Evasion is not my strongest skill. If the killer is weak, two loops and a nice timed pallet and I am gone. Now as a killer, I have no issues at all with proper tunneling. Take at the weak target. If you are injured, I am on you. If you got unhooked, sorry for you but you are going back up. My goal is to remove as many survivors out of the game as I can as quickly as I can. Yeah it sucks for the survivor, but this is not a co-op game, it is a 4 v 1 PVP game. Survivors are my opponents, not my BFFs. I want you hooked and dead. Sorry.The biggest issue with tunneling is killers who over tunnel and do now know when to break chase. You have to know when to just give it up. Esp for lower ranked/newer killers, this is a hard thing to learn. Also added is the extreme tunneler. The killer who spends all game tunneling that one survivor who was unlucky enough to bring in the flashlight or shirtless David. Theses killers have a pathological need to hunt down and destroy this target for their unknown sin and completely blow up their game. These people scare me.
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@lasombra1979 said:
@fluffybunny said:
@lasombra1979 said:
@fluffybunny said:
@Orion said:
@fluffybunny said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
TLDR: A "first hook" rescue should automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect (that would stack with the perk) to discourage camping/tunneling and reduce toxicity in the game.*EDIT: I've also suggested in a comment further down a benefit to killer- "It would be cool if killers got double sacrifice blood points for hooking a different survivor from the one they hooked last."
The killers will just chase after you for the duration. They already do that for BT.
I also think there should be more benefit for switching targets instead of tunneling the last hooked, though giving survivors more to do while working on gens (like finding fuel cans, etc.) may also help as killers may feel pressured to get the 4k and win.
Perhaps more to punish camping and tunneling point-wise may also be helpful.
Punishment does not work. Hook vultures are proof of that.
Regardless I don't think camping and tunneling should be an easy way to rank up and I've been told by people that it is.
If you rank up from camping, you have had scores of potato survivors in your lobby and you are one lucky camper.
Tunneling is a bit of a tricker topic because exactly what is camping? Is it going after an already injured survivor as compared to that healthy survivor? Take out the weak link. Is it going after that Meg you know was already on the hook twice as compared to that Dwight you haven't hooked yet? Again, weak link. That is not tunneling, that is making a smart play. Now if you spend the entire match hunting that Jake with the flashlight and ignore everyone on gens, yeah that is tunneling and no, you wont rank up that way.
I mean I asked someone who was camping and he told me it was an easy way of obtaining pips. I don't know how it actually is as I don't camp. I'll apply pressure if someone farms behind me, but that's basically it. Camping is boring imo for both sides.
I mean, I get that, but it's also making it likely the tunneled person doesn't get that much points as they're spending the entire game running from the killer. They don't get to do gens or go for saves. A lot of times it'll affect everyone's points and it often isn't the survivor's fault. If I'm playing solo and someone just happens to farm me, I'm ultimately the one punished for the act of another. There's little to no way to tell they'd do that ahead of time, either, unless you see them doing it in the match. That would involve avoiding being caught, though. The farmers are often following around the hurt people to make sure they get the unhook. And yeah. XD It'd be better to go after someone who aren't currently in their element.
First off, I realize in my second point I accidentally said camping when I meant tunneling. I apologize.
I agree camping is completely boring for both sides, and it is a tactic I rarely use. But it is a tactic I have used. I have no shame admitting it.
With the old ranking system, camping did benefit a bit more for ranking. With the current embelm system, camping highly reduces your chances to pip unless the survivors are idiots and feed the killer. Survivors should be able to get done at least 2 gens if not 3 in the time of a full camp. They should have gens 3-5 being worked on. That said, if the first survivor tries to free themselves, slips on struggle or suicides, it benefits the killer and rewards the camp.
Tunneling to me is that tricky topic.
As a survivor, I both hate and love tunneling. If the killer is somewhat skilled, it provides a very fun and tense experience. If the killer is very skilled, yeah it sucks because they got me dead to rights. Evasion is not my strongest skill. If the killer is weak, two loops and a nice timed pallet and I am gone. Now as a killer, I have no issues at all with proper tunneling. Take at the weak target. If you are injured, I am on you. If you got unhooked, sorry for you but you are going back up. My goal is to remove as many survivors out of the game as I can as quickly as I can. Yeah it sucks for the survivor, but this is not a co-op game, it is a 4 v 1 PVP game. Survivors are my opponents, not my BFFs. I want you hooked and dead. Sorry.The biggest issue with tunneling is killers who over tunnel and do now know when to break chase. You have to know when to just give it up. Esp for lower ranked/newer killers, this is a hard thing to learn. Also added is the extreme tunneler. The killer who spends all game tunneling that one survivor who was unlucky enough to bring in the flashlight or shirtless David. Theses killers have a pathological need to hunt down and destroy this target for their unknown sin and completely blow up their game. These people scare me.
I still don't quite agree with that. If survivors were meant to have just one health state, they'd just die on first hook and often tunneling and camping keeps everyone else from getting points and pips, too. And while survivors are the opponents of killers, the fun of both sides is important. My biggest issue is that the victim in the situation is basically losing pips and points because of what someone else did. I also don't find it all that fun to be chased the entire time I'm in the match.
Yeah, some people need to learn when to give up and switch to an easier target. Typically out of a group of 4, there's always 1 or 2 that aren't that great in the chase aspect.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
What can be done is simple. You ignore as have been the people that cry and assert their entitlement to a second chance and you carry on as normal. Consider yourself dead on hook. If you do not die then you were lucky."Dying on your first hook do to an unsafe hook rescue = entitled." Nice one.
The purpose of a video game forum is to discuss ways to improve the game, telling people to "ignore" posts instead of talking about them is disgraceful especially since you didn't even state which part of the OP you disagree with.
Just because you repeatedly as a group bring up the same bad point doesn't make it an issue or worth entertaining. You have no entitlement to a second chance. If you did you would automatically get off the hook and start somewhere new randomly. As long as that doesn't happen you have no entitlement to it. No change you implement will alleviate being targeted repeatedly and taken out of the game and only serve to create unnecessary mechanics and unworkable or exploitable systems.
My point is that it's not fun for survivors to die on their first hook, tunneling is a legitimate strategy and there's nothing to discourage it which means it happens all the time and causes toxicity.
Once again you have failed to point out a flaw in my argument.
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@fluffybunny said:
I still don't quite agree with that. If survivors were meant to have just one health state, they'd just die on first hook and often tunneling and camping keeps everyone else from getting points and pips, too. And while survivors are the opponents of killers, the fun of both sides is important. My biggest issue is that the victim in the situation is basically losing pips and points because of what someone else did. I also don't find it all that fun to be chased the entire time I'm in the match.
Yeah, some people need to learn when to give up and switch to an easier target. Typically out of a group of 4, there's always 1 or 2 that aren't that great in the chase aspect.
That is why the tunneling discussion is a tricky one. It is all a matter of perspective. Case in point. You mention fun for both sides is important. I disagree. If you are my opponent, I am not worried about your fun. I am worried about either escaping you or killing you. Simple as that. Neither of our opinions are wrong. We just view the game differently.
Thank you for this wonderful discussion and listening to my point of view on the topics. It was a refreshing change.
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@SpongeBob420Pants said:
If you've been playing DBD for more than 1 hour this has probably happened to you, there's a delicate balance between the time it takes to die on hook and the time it takes to complete generators. At low rank people camp because they can, survivors are no threat to the generators and the killer has the time to hang around the hook, at high rank camping is no longer viable simply because the other survivors will finish the gens and escape.Tunneling Explained: While it's easy to get salty over the killer tunneling you it has to be understood objectively, as long as 4 survivors are in play the survivors are favored to win, as soon as someone is removed from play the killer is favored to win (still winnable) but when 2 people are removed and there's only 2 survivors left 1 is almost certainly going to die (unless there's 1 gen left/gates are already powered).
Nobody likes getting tunneled (obviously), but the problem is that it's strategically beneficial for the killer to turn the game into a 1v3 as soon as possible (if they want to win). Made up survivor rules and post game messages such as "why you tunneling B*TCH" doesn't change the fact that the killer's best chance of winning is in fact to remove someone from the game as early as possible. Everyone knows when a survivor DC"S right away the other survivors are having a rough game there's no denying the 1v3 advantage.
So, what can be done about this? Well at high rank doing gens quickly discourages camping but what about low rank and middle rank? My suggestion is that when getting rescued from your "first hook" you automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect that the perk "borrowed time" would add to if the rescuer is running it. Camping a "first hook" at high rank is choosing to lose the game so that doesn't change but for the rest of the player base this would give killers a reason to not camp/hard tunnel and would decrease the amount of toxicity in the game.
Yes we all know about this delicate balance between hook time and gen time.
It takes 120 seconds to die on a hook for a single survivor.
It takes 108,5 seconds to 4 survivors to complete all gensBHVR plans on implementing secondary objectives to adress this balance problem in a 1vs4
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@Master said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
If you've been playing DBD for more than 1 hour this has probably happened to you, there's a delicate balance between the time it takes to die on hook and the time it takes to complete generators. At low rank people camp because they can, survivors are no threat to the generators and the killer has the time to hang around the hook, at high rank camping is no longer viable simply because the other survivors will finish the gens and escape.Tunneling Explained: While it's easy to get salty over the killer tunneling you it has to be understood objectively, as long as 4 survivors are in play the survivors are favored to win, as soon as someone is removed from play the killer is favored to win (still winnable) but when 2 people are removed and there's only 2 survivors left 1 is almost certainly going to die (unless there's 1 gen left/gates are already powered).
Nobody likes getting tunneled (obviously), but the problem is that it's strategically beneficial for the killer to turn the game into a 1v3 as soon as possible (if they want to win). Made up survivor rules and post game messages such as "why you tunneling B*TCH" doesn't change the fact that the killer's best chance of winning is in fact to remove someone from the game as early as possible. Everyone knows when a survivor DC"S right away the other survivors are having a rough game there's no denying the 1v3 advantage.
So, what can be done about this? Well at high rank doing gens quickly discourages camping but what about low rank and middle rank? My suggestion is that when getting rescued from your "first hook" you automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect that the perk "borrowed time" would add to if the rescuer is running it. Camping a "first hook" at high rank is choosing to lose the game so that doesn't change but for the rest of the player base this would give killers a reason to not camp/hard tunnel and would decrease the amount of toxicity in the game.
Yes we all know about this delicate balance between hook time and gen time.
It takes 120 seconds to die on a hook for a single survivor.
It takes 108,5 seconds to 4 survivors to complete all gensBHVR plans on implementing secondary objectives to adress this balance problem in a 1vs4
If you hadn't noticed I put the term "PSA" in the title so this was supposed to be new player friendly.
Claiming "we all know" isn't helpful and you forgot to mention it takes 80 seconds to solo a generator.
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@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Master said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
If you've been playing DBD for more than 1 hour this has probably happened to you, there's a delicate balance between the time it takes to die on hook and the time it takes to complete generators. At low rank people camp because they can, survivors are no threat to the generators and the killer has the time to hang around the hook, at high rank camping is no longer viable simply because the other survivors will finish the gens and escape.Tunneling Explained: While it's easy to get salty over the killer tunneling you it has to be understood objectively, as long as 4 survivors are in play the survivors are favored to win, as soon as someone is removed from play the killer is favored to win (still winnable) but when 2 people are removed and there's only 2 survivors left 1 is almost certainly going to die (unless there's 1 gen left/gates are already powered).
Nobody likes getting tunneled (obviously), but the problem is that it's strategically beneficial for the killer to turn the game into a 1v3 as soon as possible (if they want to win). Made up survivor rules and post game messages such as "why you tunneling B*TCH" doesn't change the fact that the killer's best chance of winning is in fact to remove someone from the game as early as possible. Everyone knows when a survivor DC"S right away the other survivors are having a rough game there's no denying the 1v3 advantage.
So, what can be done about this? Well at high rank doing gens quickly discourages camping but what about low rank and middle rank? My suggestion is that when getting rescued from your "first hook" you automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect that the perk "borrowed time" would add to if the rescuer is running it. Camping a "first hook" at high rank is choosing to lose the game so that doesn't change but for the rest of the player base this would give killers a reason to not camp/hard tunnel and would decrease the amount of toxicity in the game.
Yes we all know about this delicate balance between hook time and gen time.
It takes 120 seconds to die on a hook for a single survivor.
It takes 108,5 seconds to 4 survivors to complete all gensBHVR plans on implementing secondary objectives to adress this balance problem in a 1vs4
If you hadn't noticed I put the term "PSA" in the title so this was supposed to be new player friendly.
Claiming "we all know" isn't helpful and you forgot to mention it takes 80 seconds to solo a generator.
the 108.5 seconds are caculated via 80+28.5
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@Master said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Master said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
If you've been playing DBD for more than 1 hour this has probably happened to you, there's a delicate balance between the time it takes to die on hook and the time it takes to complete generators. At low rank people camp because they can, survivors are no threat to the generators and the killer has the time to hang around the hook, at high rank camping is no longer viable simply because the other survivors will finish the gens and escape.Tunneling Explained: While it's easy to get salty over the killer tunneling you it has to be understood objectively, as long as 4 survivors are in play the survivors are favored to win, as soon as someone is removed from play the killer is favored to win (still winnable) but when 2 people are removed and there's only 2 survivors left 1 is almost certainly going to die (unless there's 1 gen left/gates are already powered).
Nobody likes getting tunneled (obviously), but the problem is that it's strategically beneficial for the killer to turn the game into a 1v3 as soon as possible (if they want to win). Made up survivor rules and post game messages such as "why you tunneling B*TCH" doesn't change the fact that the killer's best chance of winning is in fact to remove someone from the game as early as possible. Everyone knows when a survivor DC"S right away the other survivors are having a rough game there's no denying the 1v3 advantage.
So, what can be done about this? Well at high rank doing gens quickly discourages camping but what about low rank and middle rank? My suggestion is that when getting rescued from your "first hook" you automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect that the perk "borrowed time" would add to if the rescuer is running it. Camping a "first hook" at high rank is choosing to lose the game so that doesn't change but for the rest of the player base this would give killers a reason to not camp/hard tunnel and would decrease the amount of toxicity in the game.
Yes we all know about this delicate balance between hook time and gen time.
It takes 120 seconds to die on a hook for a single survivor.
It takes 108,5 seconds to 4 survivors to complete all gensBHVR plans on implementing secondary objectives to adress this balance problem in a 1vs4
If you hadn't noticed I put the term "PSA" in the title so this was supposed to be new player friendly.
Claiming "we all know" isn't helpful and you forgot to mention it takes 80 seconds to solo a generator.
the 108.5 seconds are caculated via 80+28.5
That's nice, it doesn't change what I said though.
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@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Master said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Master said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
If you've been playing DBD for more than 1 hour this has probably happened to you, there's a delicate balance between the time it takes to die on hook and the time it takes to complete generators. At low rank people camp because they can, survivors are no threat to the generators and the killer has the time to hang around the hook, at high rank camping is no longer viable simply because the other survivors will finish the gens and escape.Tunneling Explained: While it's easy to get salty over the killer tunneling you it has to be understood objectively, as long as 4 survivors are in play the survivors are favored to win, as soon as someone is removed from play the killer is favored to win (still winnable) but when 2 people are removed and there's only 2 survivors left 1 is almost certainly going to die (unless there's 1 gen left/gates are already powered).
Nobody likes getting tunneled (obviously), but the problem is that it's strategically beneficial for the killer to turn the game into a 1v3 as soon as possible (if they want to win). Made up survivor rules and post game messages such as "why you tunneling B*TCH" doesn't change the fact that the killer's best chance of winning is in fact to remove someone from the game as early as possible. Everyone knows when a survivor DC"S right away the other survivors are having a rough game there's no denying the 1v3 advantage.
So, what can be done about this? Well at high rank doing gens quickly discourages camping but what about low rank and middle rank? My suggestion is that when getting rescued from your "first hook" you automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect that the perk "borrowed time" would add to if the rescuer is running it. Camping a "first hook" at high rank is choosing to lose the game so that doesn't change but for the rest of the player base this would give killers a reason to not camp/hard tunnel and would decrease the amount of toxicity in the game.
Yes we all know about this delicate balance between hook time and gen time.
It takes 120 seconds to die on a hook for a single survivor.
It takes 108,5 seconds to 4 survivors to complete all gensBHVR plans on implementing secondary objectives to adress this balance problem in a 1vs4
If you hadn't noticed I put the term "PSA" in the title so this was supposed to be new player friendly.
Claiming "we all know" isn't helpful and you forgot to mention it takes 80 seconds to solo a generator.
the 108.5 seconds are caculated via 80+28.5
That's nice, it doesn't change what I said though.
Im not really sure what you are trying to tell me though
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@Master said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Master said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Master said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
If you've been playing DBD for more than 1 hour this has probably happened to you, there's a delicate balance between the time it takes to die on hook and the time it takes to complete generators. At low rank people camp because they can, survivors are no threat to the generators and the killer has the time to hang around the hook, at high rank camping is no longer viable simply because the other survivors will finish the gens and escape.Tunneling Explained: While it's easy to get salty over the killer tunneling you it has to be understood objectively, as long as 4 survivors are in play the survivors are favored to win, as soon as someone is removed from play the killer is favored to win (still winnable) but when 2 people are removed and there's only 2 survivors left 1 is almost certainly going to die (unless there's 1 gen left/gates are already powered).
Nobody likes getting tunneled (obviously), but the problem is that it's strategically beneficial for the killer to turn the game into a 1v3 as soon as possible (if they want to win). Made up survivor rules and post game messages such as "why you tunneling B*TCH" doesn't change the fact that the killer's best chance of winning is in fact to remove someone from the game as early as possible. Everyone knows when a survivor DC"S right away the other survivors are having a rough game there's no denying the 1v3 advantage.
So, what can be done about this? Well at high rank doing gens quickly discourages camping but what about low rank and middle rank? My suggestion is that when getting rescued from your "first hook" you automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect that the perk "borrowed time" would add to if the rescuer is running it. Camping a "first hook" at high rank is choosing to lose the game so that doesn't change but for the rest of the player base this would give killers a reason to not camp/hard tunnel and would decrease the amount of toxicity in the game.
Yes we all know about this delicate balance between hook time and gen time.
It takes 120 seconds to die on a hook for a single survivor.
It takes 108,5 seconds to 4 survivors to complete all gensBHVR plans on implementing secondary objectives to adress this balance problem in a 1vs4
If you hadn't noticed I put the term "PSA" in the title so this was supposed to be new player friendly.
Claiming "we all know" isn't helpful and you forgot to mention it takes 80 seconds to solo a generator.
the 108.5 seconds are caculated via 80+28.5
That's nice, it doesn't change what I said though.
Im not really sure what you are trying to tell me though
I'm telling you exactly what I already said:
I put the term "PSA" in the title to make it new player friendly, claiming "we all know" isn't helpful and you forgot to mention it takes 80 seconds to solo a generator.
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Good counter for tunnellers is to just run ds with an insta heal.0
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@lasombra1979 said:
@fluffybunny said:
I still don't quite agree with that. If survivors were meant to have just one health state, they'd just die on first hook and often tunneling and camping keeps everyone else from getting points and pips, too. And while survivors are the opponents of killers, the fun of both sides is important. My biggest issue is that the victim in the situation is basically losing pips and points because of what someone else did. I also don't find it all that fun to be chased the entire time I'm in the match.
Yeah, some people need to learn when to give up and switch to an easier target. Typically out of a group of 4, there's always 1 or 2 that aren't that great in the chase aspect.
That is why the tunneling discussion is a tricky one. It is all a matter of perspective. Case in point. You mention fun for both sides is important. I disagree. If you are my opponent, I am not worried about your fun. I am worried about either escaping you or killing you. Simple as that. Neither of our opinions are wrong. We just view the game differently.
Thank you for this wonderful discussion and listening to my point of view on the topics. It was a refreshing change.
When I'm a killer, I want it to be fun. When I'm a survivor, I want it to be fun. That's what I mean when I talk about fun. Or more like I want something fair as it doesn't feel fair to be punished for another person's mistake.
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Another example of Survivors wanting the most ridiculously lopsided advantage. As if the constant bullying and teabagging Meg's werent enough, let's now buff them ...
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This. Psychology has shown that rewarding desirable behavior is much more effective than punishing undesirable behavior.Dokta_Carter said:
Let's say... They do this.SpongeBob420Pants said:TLDR: A "first hook" rescue should automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect (that would stack with the perk) to discourage camping/tunneling and reduce toxicity in the game.
It wont change a thing.
Not being biased but dude, just giving a buff to the survivors wont stop it. Give a reward to the killer not doing it and still there will be thosewhom camp, and tunnel on purpose.0 -
If the person doing the saving would take a hit/make themselves visible, I think a LOT more killers would chase them. I know I personally, if I haven't found another survivor to chase by time the one on hook is unhooked, I go back to the hook to find the person who did the unhooking. However, if that person hides/urban evades/whatever so that I see no scratches, but I see blood/hear moaning from the one who got unhooked, then I'm going to chase the one I see. This would punish all killers, not just "campers" and it would reward unsafe unhooking.
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
TLDR: A "first hook" rescue should automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect (that would stack with the perk) to discourage camping/tunneling and reduce toxicity in the game.That would be a nerf to killers. Which buff would you offer to make up for this?
AMAZING! You just quoted half a quote and asked for the other half, in the exact same quote that you failed at quoting I stated a double bloodpoint bonus for killers hooking a different survivor from the one they hooked last "would be cool".
Bloodpoint bonus is NOT a buff.
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@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@lasombra1979 said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Orion said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@lasombra1979 said:
So you want to create a mechanic giving survivors a free borrowed time, thus punishing killers who do not camp, and also punishes killers who have are dealing with overly altruistic survivors (you know, unhook farmers), just because there are some killers who do camp (which is completely within the rules).This literally can't punish killers that don't camp and would only apply to the first hook and wouldn't apply after the exit gate is powered, I previously gave the example of getting hooked once, receiving an unsafe hook rescue (which is out of your control), being rehooked and camped till dead, how is that fair? They could make it so having the borrowed time effect activate still counts as an unsafe hook rescue unless the rescuer runs the perk "borrowed time").
You're literally complaining about people who unhook in the Killer's face, so this would definitely affect those who don't camp. Hook vultures don't wait until the Killer has left the area.
If you're going to lie about your intentions, at least be consistent.First of all f*ck you for calling me a liar, second of all this would punish the person preforming the unsafe hook rescue instead of the person getting an unsafe hook rescue.
You have changed who this is supposed to punish, who it is supposed to help, why you want this change about 5 times in this thread. It is a bit difficult to know who you want to punish. Perhaps you should step back and re organize your thoughts on this suggestion.
It is extremely easy to see who would get punished without doing anything wrong with your suggestions.
The goal of this thread has never changed, it's to make dying on your first hook less likely.
*EDIT: Typo
That... makes no sense. Borrowed time wouldn't apply to someone dying on their first hook, they have to be unhooked for the borrowed time to apply.
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@fluffybunny said:
@lasombra1979 said:
@fluffybunny said:
@lasombra1979 said:
@fluffybunny said:
@Orion said:
@fluffybunny said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
TLDR: A "first hook" rescue should automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect (that would stack with the perk) to discourage camping/tunneling and reduce toxicity in the game.*EDIT: I've also suggested in a comment further down a benefit to killer- "It would be cool if killers got double sacrifice blood points for hooking a different survivor from the one they hooked last."
The killers will just chase after you for the duration. They already do that for BT.
I also think there should be more benefit for switching targets instead of tunneling the last hooked, though giving survivors more to do while working on gens (like finding fuel cans, etc.) may also help as killers may feel pressured to get the 4k and win.
Perhaps more to punish camping and tunneling point-wise may also be helpful.
Punishment does not work. Hook vultures are proof of that.
Regardless I don't think camping and tunneling should be an easy way to rank up and I've been told by people that it is.
If you rank up from camping, you have had scores of potato survivors in your lobby and you are one lucky camper.
Tunneling is a bit of a tricker topic because exactly what is camping? Is it going after an already injured survivor as compared to that healthy survivor? Take out the weak link. Is it going after that Meg you know was already on the hook twice as compared to that Dwight you haven't hooked yet? Again, weak link. That is not tunneling, that is making a smart play. Now if you spend the entire match hunting that Jake with the flashlight and ignore everyone on gens, yeah that is tunneling and no, you wont rank up that way.
I mean I asked someone who was camping and he told me it was an easy way of obtaining pips. I don't know how it actually is as I don't camp. I'll apply pressure if someone farms behind me, but that's basically it. Camping is boring imo for both sides.
I mean, I get that, but it's also making it likely the tunneled person doesn't get that much points as they're spending the entire game running from the killer. They don't get to do gens or go for saves. A lot of times it'll affect everyone's points and it often isn't the survivor's fault. If I'm playing solo and someone just happens to farm me, I'm ultimately the one punished for the act of another. There's little to no way to tell they'd do that ahead of time, either, unless you see them doing it in the match. That would involve avoiding being caught, though. The farmers are often following around the hurt people to make sure they get the unhook. And yeah. XD It'd be better to go after someone who aren't currently in their element.
First off, I realize in my second point I accidentally said camping when I meant tunneling. I apologize.
I agree camping is completely boring for both sides, and it is a tactic I rarely use. But it is a tactic I have used. I have no shame admitting it.
With the old ranking system, camping did benefit a bit more for ranking. With the current embelm system, camping highly reduces your chances to pip unless the survivors are idiots and feed the killer. Survivors should be able to get done at least 2 gens if not 3 in the time of a full camp. They should have gens 3-5 being worked on. That said, if the first survivor tries to free themselves, slips on struggle or suicides, it benefits the killer and rewards the camp.
Tunneling to me is that tricky topic.
As a survivor, I both hate and love tunneling. If the killer is somewhat skilled, it provides a very fun and tense experience. If the killer is very skilled, yeah it sucks because they got me dead to rights. Evasion is not my strongest skill. If the killer is weak, two loops and a nice timed pallet and I am gone. Now as a killer, I have no issues at all with proper tunneling. Take at the weak target. If you are injured, I am on you. If you got unhooked, sorry for you but you are going back up. My goal is to remove as many survivors out of the game as I can as quickly as I can. Yeah it sucks for the survivor, but this is not a co-op game, it is a 4 v 1 PVP game. Survivors are my opponents, not my BFFs. I want you hooked and dead. Sorry.The biggest issue with tunneling is killers who over tunnel and do now know when to break chase. You have to know when to just give it up. Esp for lower ranked/newer killers, this is a hard thing to learn. Also added is the extreme tunneler. The killer who spends all game tunneling that one survivor who was unlucky enough to bring in the flashlight or shirtless David. Theses killers have a pathological need to hunt down and destroy this target for their unknown sin and completely blow up their game. These people scare me.
I still don't quite agree with that. If survivors were meant to have just one health state, they'd just die on first hook and often tunneling and camping keeps everyone else from getting points and pips, too. And while survivors are the opponents of killers, the fun of both sides is important. My biggest issue is that the victim in the situation is basically losing pips and points because of what someone else did. I also don't find it all that fun to be chased the entire time I'm in the match.
Yeah, some people need to learn when to give up and switch to an easier target. Typically out of a group of 4, there's always 1 or 2 that aren't that great in the chase aspect.
You are playing a 4 v 1 PVP game. Your points depend as much on what you do as on what your teammates do and what your opponent does. That's the nature of the game. Yes it might suck that something your teammates do can screw with your points, but as killer, our points also rely on survivors making mistakes, which also sucks if they do not. So its tough all around. Nothing the devs could do would stop someone who REALLY wants to tunnel and camp from tunneling and camping, and nothing they could do would change how the point system functions in a 4 v 1 PVP. I don't think it happens as much as people say it does. I think many people claim they were "tunneled" because the killer chased them when they were injured, or "camped" because the killer chased survivors around near the hook or didn't chase survivors out the door when both were opened.
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@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
What can be done is simple. You ignore as have been the people that cry and assert their entitlement to a second chance and you carry on as normal. Consider yourself dead on hook. If you do not die then you were lucky."Dying on your first hook do to an unsafe hook rescue = entitled." Nice one.
The purpose of a video game forum is to discuss ways to improve the game, telling people to "ignore" posts instead of talking about them is disgraceful especially since you didn't even state which part of the OP you disagree with.
Just because you repeatedly as a group bring up the same bad point doesn't make it an issue or worth entertaining. You have no entitlement to a second chance. If you did you would automatically get off the hook and start somewhere new randomly. As long as that doesn't happen you have no entitlement to it. No change you implement will alleviate being targeted repeatedly and taken out of the game and only serve to create unnecessary mechanics and unworkable or exploitable systems.
My point is that it's not fun for survivors to die on their first hook, tunneling is a legitimate strategy and there's nothing to discourage it which means it happens all the time and causes toxicity.
Once again you have failed to point out a flaw in my argument.
Just because it sucks and isn't fun doesn't mean it's a broken mechanic that needs to be fixed. It's part of the game. Getting hooked sucks, period. Getting looped sucks and so does getting pallet stunned or flashlight blinded. They are still not broken mechanics just because it sucks when it happens to you.
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@scorpio said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
What can be done is simple. You ignore as have been the people that cry and assert their entitlement to a second chance and you carry on as normal. Consider yourself dead on hook. If you do not die then you were lucky."Dying on your first hook do to an unsafe hook rescue = entitled." Nice one.
The purpose of a video game forum is to discuss ways to improve the game, telling people to "ignore" posts instead of talking about them is disgraceful especially since you didn't even state which part of the OP you disagree with.
Just because you repeatedly as a group bring up the same bad point doesn't make it an issue or worth entertaining. You have no entitlement to a second chance. If you did you would automatically get off the hook and start somewhere new randomly. As long as that doesn't happen you have no entitlement to it. No change you implement will alleviate being targeted repeatedly and taken out of the game and only serve to create unnecessary mechanics and unworkable or exploitable systems.
My point is that it's not fun for survivors to die on their first hook, tunneling is a legitimate strategy and there's nothing to discourage it which means it happens all the time and causes toxicity.
Once again you have failed to point out a flaw in my argument.
Just because it sucks and isn't fun doesn't mean it's a broken mechanic that needs to be fixed. It's part of the game. Getting hooked sucks, period. Getting looped sucks and so does getting pallet stunned or flashlight blinded. They are still not broken mechanics just because it sucks when it happens to you.
"It sucks and isn't fun but it's ok because it isn't broken". Sorry but that's just stupid, the game should be fun and balanced.
Getting looped doesn't suck, the chase is the best aspect of the game for both killer and survivor and anyone complaining about pallet loops doesn't appreciate the chase or the mind games involved.
Getting blinded can be annoying but it should only work if you're locked in animation of pallet break/vault, when picking someone up just face a wall.
*Edit: Typo
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@scorpio My point isn't really that they should stop and make it against the rules, but it should be less beneficial to do. I understand some times call for camping like when the gens go by to quick or at end gate to secure a kill (edit: or when people are swarming hook). I even understand camping in the basement. I just think it should be more of a weighted option, though. Like you're giving up something to make a point or to make an easy "win". Do you pip when/if you camp? I don't believe killers typically get a lot of BP, but I may be wrong.
I understand that it is sometimes used to punish or because the circumstance calls for it, but I've been told by campers/tunnelers that it's an easy pip and that's why they do it and something so easy shouldn't be rewarding especially if it ruins the experience for another.
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Having a safety net against bad saves would only mean that bad saves would happen more and more often, increasing the tunneling and camping aspects of the game, thanks to killers not having to leave their hooks because survivors suicide diving it.
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@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Dehitay said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
Ya? Which part of the OP do you disagree with?
It's a free buff for the side that already has the advantage in the game when both sides are equally skilled and trying equally hard? If you think getting tunneled is annoying, play Leatherface and deal with the fun of a dozen loops in a row. You can't hard nerf one side without nerfing the other.
I would be happy to have killers get buffed in anyway that seems fair, the point of this post simply put is dying on your first hook sucks and without a mechanic to discourage camping/tunneling the killer will tunnel because it's the best way to win.
You did not bring up a suggestion yet what kind of buff killers could get to make up for your nerf.
Or don't you have an idea and want others to come up with something for you?1 -
I will say I have several recorded games on pc and ps4 were 1k turns into 3k or 4K cause people get greedy. Like I chase them all game kill 1 lol catch a Claudette hook in basement go invis upstairs watch them both go down and boom 4K lol.and these were like rank 2s and 3s. They looped me all game so yea they were good they just got cocky and it costed them,
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I think there should just be a flat 40s cooldown on hooking a survivor, that way even if a survivor gets tunneled the killer can't hook him and has to leave him on the ground, if he decides to just wait and hook him that's another time to get a gen done and punish the killer.
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@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Master said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Master said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Master said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
If you've been playing DBD for more than 1 hour this has probably happened to you, there's a delicate balance between the time it takes to die on hook and the time it takes to complete generators. At low rank people camp because they can, survivors are no threat to the generators and the killer has the time to hang around the hook, at high rank camping is no longer viable simply because the other survivors will finish the gens and escape.Tunneling Explained: While it's easy to get salty over the killer tunneling you it has to be understood objectively, as long as 4 survivors are in play the survivors are favored to win, as soon as someone is removed from play the killer is favored to win (still winnable) but when 2 people are removed and there's only 2 survivors left 1 is almost certainly going to die (unless there's 1 gen left/gates are already powered).
Nobody likes getting tunneled (obviously), but the problem is that it's strategically beneficial for the killer to turn the game into a 1v3 as soon as possible (if they want to win). Made up survivor rules and post game messages such as "why you tunneling B*TCH" doesn't change the fact that the killer's best chance of winning is in fact to remove someone from the game as early as possible. Everyone knows when a survivor DC"S right away the other survivors are having a rough game there's no denying the 1v3 advantage.
So, what can be done about this? Well at high rank doing gens quickly discourages camping but what about low rank and middle rank? My suggestion is that when getting rescued from your "first hook" you automatically have a 10 second borrowed time effect that the perk "borrowed time" would add to if the rescuer is running it. Camping a "first hook" at high rank is choosing to lose the game so that doesn't change but for the rest of the player base this would give killers a reason to not camp/hard tunnel and would decrease the amount of toxicity in the game.
Yes we all know about this delicate balance between hook time and gen time.
It takes 120 seconds to die on a hook for a single survivor.
It takes 108,5 seconds to 4 survivors to complete all gensBHVR plans on implementing secondary objectives to adress this balance problem in a 1vs4
If you hadn't noticed I put the term "PSA" in the title so this was supposed to be new player friendly.
Claiming "we all know" isn't helpful and you forgot to mention it takes 80 seconds to solo a generator.
the 108.5 seconds are caculated via 80+28.5
That's nice, it doesn't change what I said though.
Im not really sure what you are trying to tell me though
I'm telling you exactly what I already said:
I put the term "PSA" in the title to make it new player friendly, claiming "we all know" isn't helpful and you forgot to mention it takes 80 seconds to solo a generator.
Well I dont know what to say, I just explained you how I came to these numbers.
80 seconds for doing a gen solo and 28.5 for the last one (assuming all 4 can repair).If you wanna see what those numbers mean in action, then you might wanna check out the depip squad experiment (marth88)
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@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Dehitay said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
Ya? Which part of the OP do you disagree with?
It's a free buff for the side that already has the advantage in the game when both sides are equally skilled and trying equally hard? If you think getting tunneled is annoying, play Leatherface and deal with the fun of a dozen loops in a row. You can't hard nerf one side without nerfing the other.
I would be happy to have killers get buffed in anyway that seems fair, the point of this post simply put is dying on your first hook sucks and without a mechanic to discourage camping/tunneling the killer will tunnel because it's the best way to win.
You did not bring up a suggestion yet what kind of buff killers could get to make up for your nerf.
Or don't you have an idea and want others to come up with something for you?This is your thread. By insulting people for not agreeing with you, you simply show everyone what kind of person they are dealing with.
Post edited by Mandy on1 -
@NoShinyPony said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Dehitay said:
@SpongeBob420Pants said:
Ya? Which part of the OP do you disagree with?
It's a free buff for the side that already has the advantage in the game when both sides are equally skilled and trying equally hard? If you think getting tunneled is annoying, play Leatherface and deal with the fun of a dozen loops in a row. You can't hard nerf one side without nerfing the other.
I would be happy to have killers get buffed in anyway that seems fair, the point of this post simply put is dying on your first hook sucks and without a mechanic to discourage camping/tunneling the killer will tunnel because it's the best way to win.
You did not bring up a suggestion yet what kind of buff killers could get to make up for your nerf.
Or don't you have an idea and want others to come up with something for you?This is your thread. By insulting people for not agreeing with you, you simply show everyone what kind of person they are dealing with.
I don't owe you anything, go bother someone else.
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I'd love a nerf to camping, but I think a built in Borrowed Time isn't the way to go, simply because it can also allow you to unhook very unsafely without the killer going away. As a perk that's fine, but I feel like there needs to be a different way of dealing with camping. I think the best first step would be to show the killers aura to all survivors when the killer is within a certain range of the hooked survivor. Like Kindred Tier 3, but with a bigger radius. SWF survivors already have this advantage, so it would only be an improvement for solo survivors.
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Tunneling and camping (without reasoning) is a problem. While I do agree that there's a different way to help the survivor in that situation, I don't agree with a free BT.Orion said:@SpongeBob420Pants said:
@Orion said:
Why should you be rewarded for failure, and why should the Killer be punished for success?So by "your failure" you mean your teammate preforming an unsafe hook rescue and by "killers success" you mean standing in front of a hooked survivor?
The killer will tunnel because objectively they should, it's the best way to win, I think dying from 1 hook sucks and causes a lot of toxicity which furthers the divide in the community.
By "your failure" I mean the fact that you were hooked (lost at stealth and lost the chase), and by "success" I mean the fact that he hooked you (won at stealth and won the chase).
Your logic here is that Killers should be punished because of toxic Survivors. How is that even remotely fair?
The camping penalty (emblem system) needs to be drastically increased imo.0
