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Twins Rework - Victor Scramble
The classic problem of Twins is slugging. Victor used to have a massive 5s recovery when injuring with pounce to mitigate this, and it felt awful. The 7.7.0 buffs reduced this recovery from 5s to 2.7s. This of course makes Victor a slug God... He can crawl up survivors butt's and just mow them down with little that can be done about it… this feels lame for the survivor, but also for Twins too.
The problem is there is basically no incentive to try long leaps on Victor....which is where this killer would be the most fun. The further you leap, the more likely you are to miss. If you miss, you increase your chance of getting kicked in the teeth, so we want to encourage long jumps and stop point blank pounces. To remedy this I want to propose the following rework:
Victor Scramble
On all collisions with survivors or terrain during pounce:
- At point black Victor is stunned and will take 5.5s to recover from pounce.
- On the upward arc of his leap Victor is stunned and will take 3.5s to recover from pounce.
- On the downwards arc of his leap Victor will scramble and take only 1.5s to recover from pounce.
Numbers are debatable, but the logic is if Victor slammed himself into Survivors or terrain, he is much less controlled at the start of his leap, whereas at the end of his leap he has time to actually control himself and spring off terrain to recover faster.
This would encourage Victor to go for longer leaps, which would be much more fun for both sides of the equation. The massive 5.5s stun on a point blank hit is a harsh penalty to make it a... "sure you can do this... but you're eating a harsh stun for it" deal. His regular 3s miss cooldown is unchanged, as often if you miss you're usually off in the middle of nowhere and unlikely to get hit.
This would also allows him to use his leap to bounce off terrain as a rapid (though loud) mobility tool, and sells the idea of Victor being leaping menace much more. Not much use in confined spaces, but would add an fun extra dimension to his kit.
EDIT:
Actually prefer VomitMommy's variant of this after discussion:
Comments
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No love for Twins?
Not even a "That's an awful idea" 😢
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Just going to necro this thread, because Twins is in a daft state right now...
The lingering buff after the revert to give 2.7s recovery after a hit is insane... Victor can just slug repeatedly and do every jump from point blank with barely any cooldown.
I like playing Twins, and don't go on Slug rampages... but facing them is utter nonsense right now... the only saving grace is they're not popular...
I feel like a mechanic like this would be a lot more interesting and fun for everyone... I don't consider myself an experienced player, so would happily takenother suggestions instead of this change... but the point is SOMETHING has got to change on Twins, cause they are plain bananas right now.
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Gonna help you with raising awareness here, and also offer feedback. Simply put: I like the idea.
It's never a bad idea to make a killer more rewarding when playing in a skillful way, so.. no problems on my side.
Side note: It's kinda funny how discussions that offer genuine ideas and sensible changes get so few responses, yet a post written in 5 minutes with some controversial stuff in it gets 20+ comments.
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Cheers that man, I know Twins aren't popular, so I get why this it not really on anyone's radar.... between D&D, Lara Croft, the big perk changes in 8.0.0 and modern patches, and other characters getting reworked… Its easy to forget about Twins...
However I was stunned when this 2.7s recovery went live, and am more baffled at it staying there all this time… Literally any time you go against Twins it's a Victor slaughter. As soon as Charlotte gets 1 player on hook, that player is hounded the rest of the game to keep them from healing and keep wounding survivors to set up the chance of a slug snowball...
It's so nasty, as there is literally nothing you can do when everyone else is injured and Victor just crawls up your butt's and bounces between you 1 by 1.
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I wouldn't go above 5 seconds, because you simply can't always go for long range shots. Some maps don't allow this reliably.
As you said 5 seconds were awful, so playing Twins on indoor maps would be even worse after this change, no?
Otherwise like the concept
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Thanks! Yeah fair point, and that is a concern; 5s would probably be fine?
I figure there would be tweaks to the values for gameplay. For vaults of Long - Short - Point Blank values I've been swinging back and forth somewhere between:
- 1.5 - 3.5 - 5.5
- 1.0 - 3.0 - 5.0 (very fast recovery on a long dive, medium might still be a little sluggy though...)
- 1.5 - 3.5 - 5.0 (would be a little concerned not enough incentive to medium vault)
- 2.0 - 4.0 - 6.0 (looks too punishing overall here)
- 1.5 - 3.5 - 6.0 (even bigger point blank penalty)
Would figure these would play around and tweak based on gameplay feedback. As long as standing on peoples shoes and vaulting from point blank is not the norm, I think Twins overall will be much cooler to play for both sides.
Just being encouraged to try to get a longer pounce and maybe save a few seconds recovery gives a little more chance to juke and try to outplay Victor, and would help their image a lot.
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Not really need to do it in leaps, no? 1,5 → 3
You can just make it % based on distance. Have it probably 1.5 lowest and 5 highest.
You get maximum distance Victor can jump on flat surface and just count how far did Victor travel before hit.
This would make it kinda easier to balance, because you deal with only 2 values. Your approach is 5 values (distance milestones and duration).
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Hmmm, also a reasonable approach. I figured a milestones approach would be easier to get a feel for, and probably easier to manage for animations. I figured with the longer bouce you could get slick and add a special animation to denote Victor recovered quickly rather than got "stunned", though that's probably unrealistic to expect 😅
Gameplaywise, feom the Twins perspective they can learn exactly where the distances are for each increment of Victor recovery are and consistently play around it. Survivors can learn those increments too and pairs can know whether they can go for kicks or not...
However just a general gauge of "longer equals better" (or for survivors worse) for both sides is straight forward enough that the exact measurements are probably not important...
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Issue is with this approach it would feel kinda bad to get extra 2 seconds fatigue because you were 0.5 meter too close and would be very difficult to control precisely, it would be just gamble most of the times.
Using % system would be easier and more predictable outcome of such feature for players. Basically you are sure to get rewarded for what you earned (distance).
I would probably not start decrease from start, you could make it start decreasing after like 1 meter of distance or something. That seems fair.
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That actually sounds pretty solid to be fair... Good shout that man. 🤔
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