The second iteration of 2v8 is now LIVE - find out more information here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/480-2v8-developer-update

Lobby simulator

20+ minutes with no game and getting lobby dodged along the way, I figured rank reset would speed the times up 
«13

Comments

  • fcc2014
    fcc2014 Member Posts: 4,388
    Nope it is a wait solo or with friends. Killer time very little wait times. Glad the event is around the corner.
  • Onionthing
    Onionthing Member Posts: 469
    edited January 2019

    Tought you guys hated killers anyway :) now you dont have to deal with toxic killers! Try 4 man-ing without a killer, ya know? Do gens, no killer, no risk.. very fun! Oh wait ....

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    fcc2014 said:
    Nope it is a wait solo or with friends. Killer time very little wait times. Glad the event is around the corner.
    @fcc2014
    Yeah survivor queues are bugged, doesn't matter if you play solo or with friends, and 70% of the times i find a lobby i get dodged, even when playing solo.
  • OrionsFury4789
    OrionsFury4789 Member Posts: 637
    Vietfox said:
    I thought killer mains had enough balls to not lobbydodge
    Apparently not from what we're seeing right now 
  • lasombra1979
    lasombra1979 Member Posts: 1,142

    The survivor queues have been rough the last few nights on PS4.

  • fcc2014
    fcc2014 Member Posts: 4,388
    @Vietfox been playing very little other than killer. We were trying to get you lyric and ladylyric for fibbage the other night. Drinking is a prerequisite to play.
  • Unnamed_Freak
    Unnamed_Freak Member Posts: 570

    I'm pretty sure it's a lobby problem, like killers had months ago.

  • OrionsFury4789
    OrionsFury4789 Member Posts: 637

    The survivor queues have been rough the last few nights on PS4.

    You're not kidding we've waited for 40 minutes for one game 
  • fcc2014
    fcc2014 Member Posts: 4,388

    The survivor queues have been rough the last few nights on PS4.

    You're not kidding we've waited for 40 minutes for one game 
    Screw that....40 minute wait! I will wait 15 mins max than play or do something else.
  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @OrionsFury4789 said:
    20+ minutes with no game and getting lobby dodged along the way, I figured rank reset would speed the times up 

    I thought killers have it so easy now that everybody is playing killer?

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    @Master said:

    @OrionsFury4789 said:
    20+ minutes with no game and getting lobby dodged along the way, I figured rank reset would speed the times up 

    I thought killers have it so easy now that everybody is playing killer?

    They do, the problem is that queues are bugged.
  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @Vietfox said:
    @Master said:

    @OrionsFury4789 said:

    20+ minutes with no game and getting lobby dodged along the way, I figured rank reset would speed the times up 

    I thought killers have it so easy now that everybody is playing killer?

    They do, the problem is that queues are bugged.

    Uhm aha, so how is it possible that I get instant queues as killer? Sounds weird to me that only one part of the community suffers from those queue time bugs while the other side can play. In the end you need both sides for a game?

  • OrionsFury4789
    OrionsFury4789 Member Posts: 637
    Master said:

    @OrionsFury4789 said:
    20+ minutes with no game and getting lobby dodged along the way, I figured rank reset would speed the times up 

    I thought killers have it so easy now that everybody is playing killer?

    They are playing killer....killing the game,  just leaving Everytime we get a lobby, ya know because that's what you guys do now whenever anything that has blood on it or an item in it's hand enters a lobby
  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    @Master said:

    @Vietfox said:
    @Master said:

    @OrionsFury4789 said:

    20+ minutes with no game and getting lobby dodged along the way, I figured rank reset would speed the times up 

    I thought killers have it so easy now that everybody is playing killer?

    They do, the problem is that queues are bugged.

    Uhm aha, so how is it possible that I get instant queues as killer? Sounds weird to me that only one part of the community suffers from those queue time bugs while the other side can play. In the end you need both sides for a game?

    Correction: Killers insta lobbydodging insta queues
  • Bongbingbing
    Bongbingbing Member Posts: 1,423

    Is it actually a bug? Has there been an official statement from someone on the team? I just assumed it was because there was more survivors playing than killers since I've noticed my lobbies as Killer have gotten a lot quicker.

  • Gorgonia
    Gorgonia Member Posts: 1,607

    I go from a 10 minutes wait to a dodged lobby to a “You can’t join the game” and I have to close the game and reopen it.

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    edited January 2019

    Is it actually a bug? Has there been an official statement from someone on the team? I just assumed it was because there was more survivors playing than killers since I've noticed my lobbies as Killer have gotten a lot quicker.

    It has to be bugged. That or maybe killers like @Master aren't playing as killer after rank reset because they don't want to face rank 1 survivors, so that might be the other possible reason.
  • OrionsFury4789
    OrionsFury4789 Member Posts: 637

    Tought you guys hated killers anyway :) now you dont have to deal with toxic killers! Try 4 man-ing without a killer, ya know? Do gens, no killer, no risk.. very fun! Oh wait ....

    I guess that would mean I hate myself since I play killer to rank one too LMAO
  • JammyJewels
    JammyJewels Member Posts: 611
    Tbh? I’m tired of this game. Slowly it is draining every bit of motivation I have to play it.

    I think I joined the same guy 5 times in a row and he kept lobby dodging (a shame too, he had a consistent green ping) and even now I’m getting lobby dodge after lobby dodge after 15+ minutes of waiting. I am genuinely upset by this...
  • ad19970
    ad19970 Member Posts: 6,410

    @Vietfox said:
    @Master said:

    @OrionsFury4789 said:

    20+ minutes with no game and getting lobby dodged along the way, I figured rank reset would speed the times up 

    I thought killers have it so easy now that everybody is playing killer?

    They do, the problem is that queues are bugged.

    How do killers have it so easy now? Just because the game is actually quite well balanced? Killer can still be way more stressful than survivor. I mean you don't really believe killer lobby times back then were long cause everybody played killer, yet now that survivors have to wait longer it must be a bug?

  • PiiFree
    PiiFree Member Posts: 1,154
    edited January 2019

    I used to be a diehard Killer main but I switched sides a few months ago when Killers suffered from ridiculous wait times. Never really went back to Killer.

    I get more or less instant lobbies and I get dodged maybe once in 10 lobbies, probably because of some toxic SWF plebs.

    @Vietfox said:
    I thought killer mains had enough balls to not lobbydodge

    Great way to start a Killer vs Survivor debatte.

    I thought Survivor mains had enough balls to play without Voice Communication.

    Your turn again.

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @Vietfox said:
    @Bongbingbing said:

    Is it actually a bug? Has there been an official statement from someone on the team? I just assumed it was because there was more survivors playing than killers since I've noticed my lobbies as Killer have gotten a lot quicker.

    It has to be bugged. That or maybe killers like @Master aren't playing as killer after rank reset because they don't want to face rank 1 survivors, so that might be the other possible reason.

    True, I never play after rank reset. I always take a week break at least because I dont enjoy facing toxic survivors at all

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @JammyJewels said:
    Tbh? I’m tired of this game. Slowly it is draining every bit of motivation I have to play it.

    I think I joined the same guy 5 times in a row and he kept lobby dodging (a shame too, he had a consistent green ping) and even now I’m getting lobby dodge after lobby dodge after 15+ minutes of waiting. I am genuinely upset by this...

    Sucks when you bullied all killers away and the only killer remaining has you on some sort of blacklist :smile:

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    edited January 2019
    @ad19970 said:

    @Vietfox said:
    @Master said:

    @OrionsFury4789 said:

    20+ minutes with no game and getting lobby dodged along the way, I figured rank reset would speed the times up 

    I thought killers have it so easy now that everybody is playing killer?

    They do, the problem is that queues are bugged.

    How do killers have it so easy now? Just because the game is actually quite well balanced? Killer can still be way more stressful than survivor. I mean you don't really believe killer lobby times back then were long cause everybody played killer, yet now that survivors have to wait longer it must be a bug?

    I was just messing with Master a bit ;)
  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    @PiiFree said:

    I used to be a diehard Killer main but I switched sides a few months ago when Killers suffered from ridiculous wait times. Never really went back to Killer.

    I get more or less instant lobbies and I get dodged maybe once in 10 lobbies, probably because of some toxic SWF plebs.

    @Vietfox said:
    I thought killer mains had enough balls to not lobbydodge

    Great way to start a Killer vs Survivor debatte.

    I thought Survivor mains had enough balls to play without Voice Communication.

    Your turn again.

    I was just taunting, although i admit that the amount of killers dodging has increased quite a lot and it's taking forever to find a game right now, doesn't matter if i play solo or with friends.
  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @Vietfox said:
    @PiiFree said:

    I used to be a diehard Killer main but I switched sides a few months ago when Killers suffered from ridiculous wait times. Never really went back to Killer.

    I get more or less instant lobbies and I get dodged maybe once in 10 lobbies, probably because of some toxic SWF plebs.

    @Vietfox said:

    I thought killer mains had enough balls to not lobbydodge

    Great way to start a Killer vs Survivor debatte.

    I thought Survivor mains had enough balls to play without Voice Communication.

    Your turn again.

    I was just taunting, although i admit that the amount of killers dodging has increased quite a lot and it's taking forever to find a game right now, doesn't matter if i play solo or with friends.

    I just queued as survivor and I can verify this. Hilarious :smile:

  • slipttees
    slipttees Member Posts: 846

    Lobby simulation best game ever! rsrs

    10 or 15 min for find match

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    @Master said:

    @Vietfox said:
    @PiiFree said:

    I used to be a diehard Killer main but I switched sides a few months ago when Killers suffered from ridiculous wait times. Never really went back to Killer.

    I get more or less instant lobbies and I get dodged maybe once in 10 lobbies, probably because of some toxic SWF plebs.

    @Vietfox said:

    I thought killer mains had enough balls to not lobbydodge

    Great way to start a Killer vs Survivor debatte.

    I thought Survivor mains had enough balls to play without Voice Communication.

    Your turn again.

    I was just taunting, although i admit that the amount of killers dodging has increased quite a lot and it's taking forever to find a game right now, doesn't matter if i play solo or with friends.

    I just queued as survivor and I can verify this. Hilarious :smile:

    Now you understand my frustrations lol. When this happens i just switch roles or simply play something else, but it's different when you want to play with friends.
  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @Vietfox said:
    @Master said:

    @Vietfox said:

    @PiiFree said:

    I used to be a diehard Killer main but I switched sides a few months ago when  Killers suffered from ridiculous wait times. Never really went back to Killer.
    
    I get more or less instant lobbies and I get dodged maybe once in 10 lobbies, probably because of some toxic SWF plebs.
    
    @Vietfox said:
    
    I thought killer mains had enough balls to not lobbydodge
    
    
    
    Great way to start a Killer vs Survivor debatte.
    
    I thought Survivor mains had enough balls to play without Voice Communication.
    
    Your turn again.
    

    I was just taunting, although i admit that the amount of killers dodging has increased quite a lot and it's taking forever to find a game right now, doesn't matter if i play solo or with friends.

    I just queued as survivor and I can verify this. Hilarious :smile:

    Now you understand my frustrations lol. When this happens i just switch roles or simply play something else, but it's different when you want to play with friends.

    Mhm yeah, but I guess you dont wanna play killer after rank reset either :smile:
    I will turn back to my other games now and come back (maybe) in a week or sth like that, I heard civ 5 is a great game..... :wink:

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    @Master said:

    Mhm yeah, but I guess you dont wanna play killer after rank reset either :smile:
    I will turn back to my other games now and come back (maybe) in a week or sth like that, I heard civ 5 is a great game..... :wink:

    I did play as a killer last Monday, from 3000 to 970K bloodpoints. I don't have any problem with rank resets ;)
  • PiiFree
    PiiFree Member Posts: 1,154

    @Vietfox said:
    I was just taunting, although i admit that the amount of killers dodging has increased quite a lot and it's taking forever to find a game right now, doesn't matter if i play solo or with friends.

    Ever wondered why people dodge SWF? It's not coming "out of nowhere", there is a reason for this... :)

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    @PiiFree said:

    @Vietfox said:
    I was just taunting, although i admit that the amount of killers dodging has increased quite a lot and it's taking forever to find a game right now, doesn't matter if i play solo or with friends.

    Ever wondered why people dodge SWF? It's not coming "out of nowhere", there is a reason for this... :)

    Honestly SWF are not that bad. I never dodge and SWF are usually the ones who give me more fun and bloodpoints.
    But as i was saying, they dodge me even when playing solo now.
  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @Vietfox said:
    @Master said:

    Mhm yeah, but I guess you dont wanna play killer after rank reset either :smile:

    I will turn back to my other games now and come back (maybe) in a week or sth like that, I heard civ 5 is a great game..... :wink:

    I did play as a killer last Monday, from 3000 to 970K bloodpoints. I don't have any problem with rank resets ;)

    Well then the problem is solved, simply play killer :wink:

  • JawsIsTheNextKiller
    JawsIsTheNextKiller Member Posts: 3,367

    I think killers are dodging lobbies because 4 survivors keep coming up at once, probably because the devs have sneaked the new matchmaking system in. It is muscle memory - a reflex. A bit like one of your survivor skill checks. Within a fraction of a second of 4 people popping up we hit leave.

    Killers have to get used to the fact that it doesn't necessarily mean its a grief squad any more.

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    @Master said:

    @Vietfox said:
    @Master said:

    Mhm yeah, but I guess you dont wanna play killer after rank reset either :smile:

    I will turn back to my other games now and come back (maybe) in a week or sth like that, I heard civ 5 is a great game..... :wink:

    I did play as a killer last Monday, from 3000 to 970K bloodpoints. I don't have any problem with rank resets ;)

    Well then the problem is solved, simply play killer :wink:

    Can you read? If you go to the first page you'll see that i already said i normally switch roles or play another game when that happens, but if i want to play with friends i'm kinda forced to wait for a lobby just to get lobbydodged afterwards. So much fun!
  • powerbats
    powerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    Most of my lobbies have been either very quick or get instant dodged the moment killer either sees your name, MLGA kicks in, they check profiles, and or don't like the clothing.

    For the ones that don't dodge games are generally good for both sides, lots of good chases and escapes and killer outplays.

  • PiiFree
    PiiFree Member Posts: 1,154

    @Vietfox said:
    Honestly SWF are not that bad. I never dodge and SWF are usually the ones who give me more fun and bloodpoints.
    But as i was saying, they dodge me even when playing solo now.

    Neither do I, because I'm actually looking for the SWF challenge. That doesn't change the fact that they are incredibly toxic and I'm not talking about playstyles but chat conversations and profile comments. I don't care if they like to abuse flashlights or loops but if they feel the need to insult me after I rek them, that's toxic. That's the result of the mob mentality within a SWF. If you trigger one, you triggered all of them and they'll use their VOIP to find the best insults to throw at the Killer after the match.

    I guess it's my experience vs yours at that point so a discussion would be pointless. I still only very, very rarely get dodged.

    Just because you are solo doesn't mean everyone else in the lobby is. Maybe you get matched with 3x SWFs all the time? No offense but I don't think you're so important that people would specificly try to avoid you personally but I know that people like to think "the Killer dodged because of ME! I'm OP!"

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    @PiiFree said:

    @Vietfox said:
    Honestly SWF are not that bad. I never dodge and SWF are usually the ones who give me more fun and bloodpoints.
    But as i was saying, they dodge me even when playing solo now.

    Neither do I, because I'm actually looking for the SWF challenge. That doesn't change the fact that they are incredibly toxic and I'm not talking about playstyles but chat conversations and profile comments. I don't care if they like to abuse flashlights or loops but if they feel the need to insult me after I rek them, that's toxic. That's the result of the mob mentality within a SWF. If you trigger one, you triggered all of them and they'll use their VOIP to find the best insults to throw at the Killer after the match.

    I guess it's my experience vs yours at that point so a discussion would be pointless. I still only very, very rarely get dodged.

    Just because you are solo doesn't mean everyone else in the lobby is. Maybe you get matched with 3x SWFs all the time? No offense but I don't think you're so important that people would specificly try to avoid you personally but I know that people like to think "the Killer dodged because of ME! I'm OP!"

    I never said they dodge me because they see my name, just that i get dodged when playing solo.
    I might get matched with 3 SWF sometimes, but not every time i've been dodged. Also there are some killers that dodge for any silly reason too, so there's that...
  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @Vietfox said:
    @Master said:

    @Vietfox said:

    @Master said:

    Mhm yeah, but I guess you dont wanna play killer after rank reset either :smile:
    
    I will turn back to my other games now and come back (maybe) in a week or sth like that, I heard civ 5 is a great game..... :wink:
    

    I did play as a killer last Monday, from 3000 to 970K bloodpoints. I don't have any problem with rank resets ;)

    Well then the problem is solved, simply play killer :wink:

    Can you read? If you go to the first page you'll see that i already said i normally switch roles or play another game when that happens, but if i want to play with friends i'm kinda forced to wait for a lobby just to get lobbydodged afterwards. So much fun!

    Just play killer with your friends in discord, this way you can listen to each other cursing about survivors :smile:

  • NoShinyPony
    NoShinyPony Member Posts: 4,570

    @Master said:

    @Vietfox said:
    @Master said:

    @OrionsFury4789 said:

    20+ minutes with no game and getting lobby dodged along the way, I figured rank reset would speed the times up 

    I thought killers have it so easy now that everybody is playing killer?

    They do, the problem is that queues are bugged.

    Uhm aha, so how is it possible that I get instant queues as killer? Sounds weird to me that only one part of the community suffers from those queue time bugs while the other side can play. In the end you need both sides for a game?

    This.

    I'm sure it's not a bug. It seems as if there simply is a lack of people wanting to play killer.

    I play both killer and survivor and get lobbies instantly as a killer. As a survivor, I have to wait a couple of minutes.

    If this problem continues to exist, the devs would need to do something to make playing killer more attractive.

  • ad19970
    ad19970 Member Posts: 6,410

    @Vietfox said:
    @ad19970 said:

    @Vietfox said:

    @Master said:

    @OrionsFury4789 said:
    
    20+ minutes with no game and getting lobby dodged along the way, I figured rank reset would speed the times up 
    
    
    
    I thought killers have it so easy now that everybody is playing killer?
    

    They do, the problem is that queues are bugged.

    How do killers have it so easy now? Just because the game is actually quite well balanced? Killer can still be way more stressful than survivor. I mean you don't really believe killer lobby times back then were long cause everybody played killer, yet now that survivors have to wait longer it must be a bug?

    I was just messing with Master a bit ;)

    Lol well that's fair enough. We are in agreement that killers are no longer underpowered. At all.

  • PiiFree
    PiiFree Member Posts: 1,154
    edited January 2019

    @Vietfox said:
    I never said they dodge me because they see my name, just that i get dodged when playing solo.
    I might get matched with 3 SWF sometimes, but not every time i've been dodged. Also there are some killers that dodge for any silly reason too, so there's that...

    Oh absolutely. Just like many Survivors MLGA block Killers for silly reasons, the Survivors equivalent to lobby dodging. This debatte between Survivors and Killers has to stop as in the end both sides are very similar regarding behaviour.

    One thing that remains though, is that people in a SWF tend to be a lot more toxic (insulting) than solos or Killers, that's for sure. Not exclusively, but a lot more likely.

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823

    @Master said:

    @Vietfox said:
    @Master said:

    @OrionsFury4789 said:

    20+ minutes with no game and getting lobby dodged along the way, I figured rank reset would speed the times up 

    I thought killers have it so easy now that everybody is playing killer?

    They do, the problem is that queues are bugged.

    Uhm aha, so how is it possible that I get instant queues as killer? Sounds weird to me that only one part of the community suffers from those queue time bugs while the other side can play. In the end you need both sides for a game?

    This.

    I'm sure it's not a bug. It seems as if there simply is a lack of people wanting to play killer.

    I play both killer and survivor and get lobbies instantly as a killer. As a survivor, I have to wait a couple of minutes.

    If this problem continues to exist, the devs would need to do something to make playing killer more attractive.

    I think there's an issue. I can get a lobby within the first minute and after that match being forced to wait 10 minutes or more. Doesn't make much sense.
  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    @PiiFree said:

    @Vietfox said:
    I never said they dodge me because they see my name, just that i get dodged when playing solo.
    I might get matched with 3 SWF sometimes, but not every time i've been dodged. Also there are some killers that dodge for any silly reason too, so there's that...

    Oh absolutely. Just like many Survivors MLGA block Killers for silly reasons, the Survivors equivalent to lobby dodging. This debatte between Survivors and Killers has to stop as in the end both sides are very similar regarding behaviour.

    One thing that remains though, is that people in a SWF tend to be a lot more toxic (insulting) than solos or Killers, that's for sure. Not exclusively, but a lot more likely.

    I said SOME killers, relax. Yeah i won't defend survivors who do silly stuff either. We are all just players here.
  • PiiFree
    PiiFree Member Posts: 1,154

    @Vietfox said:
    I said SOME killers, relax. Yeah i won't defend survivors who do silly stuff either. We are all just players here.

    @Vietfox said:
    I thought killer mains had enough balls to not lobbydodge

    Not at all what you said but nvm.

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @ad19970 said:

    @Vietfox said:
    @ad19970 said:

    @Vietfox said:

    @Master said:

    @OrionsFury4789 said:
    
    20+ minutes with no game and getting lobby dodged along the way, I figured rank reset would speed the times up 
    
    
    
    I thought killers have it so easy now that everybody is playing killer?
    

    They do, the problem is that queues are bugged.

    How do killers have it so easy now? Just because the game is actually quite well balanced? Killer can still be way more stressful than survivor. I mean you don't really believe killer lobby times back then were long cause everybody played killer, yet now that survivors have to wait longer it must be a bug?

    I was just messing with Master a bit ;)

    Lol well that's fair enough. We are in agreement that killers are no longer underpowered. At all.

    Freddy would like to have a word with you :smile:

  • NoShinyPony
    NoShinyPony Member Posts: 4,570

    @Vietfox said:
    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Master said:

     @Vietfox said:
    

    @Master said:

    @OrionsFury4789 said:

    20+ minutes with no game and getting lobby dodged along the way, I figured rank reset would speed the times up 

    I thought killers have it so easy now that everybody is playing killer?

    They do, the problem is that queues are bugged.

    Uhm aha, so how is it possible that I get instant queues as killer? Sounds weird to me that only one part of the community suffers from those queue time bugs while the other side can play. In the end you need both sides for a game?

    This.

    I'm sure it's not a bug. It seems as if there simply is a lack of people wanting to play killer.

    I play both killer and survivor and get lobbies instantly as a killer. As a survivor, I have to wait a couple of minutes.

    If this problem continues to exist, the devs would need to do something to make playing killer more attractive.

    I think there's an issue. I can get a lobby within the first minute and after that match being forced to wait 10 minutes or more. Doesn't make much sense.

    We know that the still-current matchmaking system is not perfect (and will soon be replaced by another system).
    If there is an open lobby available and you fit perfectly as a survivor (rank-wise etc.) then you might get into that lobby within seconds (and others who wait longer but don't fit so well don't get that open spot).

    I'm talking about the observation that survivor waiting times are in general much longer than those for killers. That heavily indicates that there are not enough killers at the moment.

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    @PiiFree said:

    @Vietfox said:
    I said SOME killers, relax. Yeah i won't defend survivors who do silly stuff either. We are all just players here.

    @Vietfox said:
    I thought killer mains had enough balls to not lobbydodge

    Not at all what you said but nvm.

    I know, and as i told you before, i was just taunting. Nothing serious.
  • Larcz
    Larcz Member Posts: 531
    Or this is bug or is too many survs too little killers.Or mayby just mayby some survs make DC and now pay the price :D