New Developer Update Is Decent, But I Do Have Some Concerns.
Some changes I have concerns about…
- Oppression: [BUFF] Reduced Cooldown to 60/50/40 seconds (was 80/70/60 seconds).
- Dragon's Grip: [BUFF] Reduced Cooldown to 60/50/40 seconds (was 80/70/60 seconds).
I know we do have the 8 Regression Limit for Generators but Oppression bypasses that mechanic since missed Skill Checks from any sources do not contribute to the Generator being blocked. This is a massive buff to Oppression.
Likewise, Dragon's Grip having a reduced cooldown means you cannot touch a regressing Generator as often to stop it from regressing, since there is a massive risk to doing so, it effectively creates a buffer where the Survivor cannot touch it and cannot stop it from regressing, so it gives time for the Generator to regress.
As much as I would have like to see these perks be buffed, I do have concerns if this would lead a 3-Gen and Slugging focused playstyle being strong, especially after Haddonfield being reworked and having on of the worst 3-Gen setups in the game.
Just slap on Skull Merchant or the new reworked Knight (which rewards longer paths, something 3-Gening does a lot anyways) and you can absolutely go out of your way to make things extremely unfun to go against (especially in SoloQ).
Comments
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These are fair concerns to have. I'd strongly suggest trying it out on the PTB if you're able to and pushing it to the limits. If it does turn out to be problematic, that's the best time for us to find out!
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Where can i see the new changes?
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look for developer update on the website. If you still have trouble finding it than look up dbd news on instagram and they’ll have the link in their story
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Here:
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@Rovend
Site Navigation top left corner → Information Center → Game info😊
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I honestly would rather push up the active time rather than push down the cooldown. Whenever I use Dragon's Grip, I mostly feel like I get no value because the active time on the gen (not the debuff duration) is too short anyway.
Another interesting way to only nerf the best case scenarios is keeping the buffed cooldown but extending the cooldown 20/30 seconds only after it gets triggered by someone. That way is easier to use and you can reapply it constantly but you'd take longer to reapply it after getting value from it.
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Oppression isn't that crazy if you hit the skill checks. I will say I am worried about the potential of the games lasting a long time.
Dragon's Grip I h100% agree it's worrying but it definitely needs to be tested in PTB.
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Except, we have this addon, for a Killer that already has area denial.
Claw Traps have a duration for 45 seconds, and can be extended by an extra 15% on top of that. Oppression having a 40 second cooldown means youll most likely give them a difficult Skill Check while they cannot hear Skill Check audio.
And Idk if you remember the whole "Chess Merchant vs Team Eternal" situation, but even experienced players miss Skill Checks sometimes.
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Oppression with it's current cooldown is terrible, even this version won't be that insane on my opinion, but definitely more viable
Overall I am definitely looking forward this PTB.
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I don't think I've ever had a match where I've played against a skull merchant and did a gen with a trap on me that was active but maybe that's just me.
I guess the addon could be problematic but I think there is a more obvious problem in this case that being skull merchant.
Also this isn't really a reason more something that I'd like to point out, but realistically in a 3 gen situation, the killer can't manage 3 gens and not reach the anti 3 gen limit even with skull merchant and that addon. Obviously it won't be fun and it will be way to long, but it is possible to beat.
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I dont think you understand, it's not about stalling to hold the game hostage, it's about stalling in a way that can afford you the time to bleed the Survivors out, which this playstyle already affords enough time to do.
The match wont last for an hour, obviously, but at the same time, it will last more than long enough for the Survivor's bleed-out timer to fully deplete, which is the intent behind this playstyle, to stall long enough for the Survivors to bleed out.
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Most killers don't have the mobility to figure out which gen is regressing and where the survivor js.
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So from 3-gen to slugging? Pick which is an issue with oppression. Answer is neither...
They don't work together unless survivors let her. For slugging you need to run around the map and commit to chases, that's opposite of 3-gen playstyle.
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Considering the sabo buffs from last ptb went to live, I don't really have faith in what you're saying.
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We expressed concerns that Alex toolbox + speed addons allows a survivor to take a hit, sabotage a hook in the killer’s face, and move away before the killer could swing again…… and that still hasn’t been addressed.
And now we’re going to be forced to deal with 100% iron will again, which I already know is going to be awful because I’ve already experienced 100% iron will in the past. Why do many killer perks need to have limited durations, and other large restrictions, but it’s cool if Iron will and calm spirit can have unlimited durations? Why is it cool that in most matches, Distortion might as well have unlimited durations if the survivor tries a bit to avoid the aura perks Distortion revealed to them (I.e. hiding in a locker before a survivor gets hooked, if Distortion revealed BBQ)?
Perks like off the record are healthy for the game, because the stealth component has a limited duration. At the very least, iron will should inflict exhaustion, so survivors can’t just combo it with dead hard, and mostly bypass the exhaustion restriction.
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Bleed out? I think I got something wrong. What are we talking about? We are talking about a 3 gen situation with the new oppression right? How is it getting to bleed out? I'm genuinely confused.
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skull merchant CANNOT camp a 3 gen like used to, why is she being mentioned? I’m confused as a skull merchant main she’s all about intel and chase, you can sit on a gen right by a drone and there would be no way I would know unless you let yourself get scanned or hack the drone, which btw don’t hack a drone if it’s right a gen!
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How often do you run through the disco drone three times, SM leaves you broken and trundles off somewhere and then you go do a gen with a trap on you? Then she's gonna kick a gen every thirty seconds to hopefully maybe make a couple of tagged survivors miss skill checks?
Do you see how incredibly inefficient this is? You have to jump through so many hoops to make it maybe possibly happen.
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I'm mildly concerned that Dragon's Grip will have a cooldown that's shorter than the duration of Exposed that it causes, but I suppose we shall see on PTB
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The Killer still has all the choices all throughout a sabo scenario.
- They can head 1-6 different directions to get a hook from pickup, location dependent.
- They can drop when they see a Survivor attempting Sabo (getting in position with a Toolbox also counts).
- They can get the sabo free hit then drop.
- They can take the free sabo hit and still reach another hook in time.
- They can fake Hook 1 to bait a sabo, and go for Hook 2 instead.
- If they are in a corner, then they are only prohibited from option 1 (shrinking options down to 1 direction only).
So where is this a problem? There are 4/5 scenarios for the Killer to still come out on top in a Sabo scenario, based on whether the downed Survivor was in a corner or not. Garsh darn, I can't win against No Mither Survivors saboing all the time.
Distortion is annoying, sure, but the lack of information is also information. I run Lethal Pursuer and Iri Cam on Ghostface, and the starting Lethal gives me enough info to plan around for the rest of the match. Distortion should probably be looked at to remove the token recovery, but only once the super common aura add-ons are limited. Iri Cam and Leprose Lichen are in the same category as Compound Twenty-One and Glowing Concoction, which are also competing against Lavalier Microphone, Cigar Box, All Seeing Blood, Light Chassis, and Mirror Myers. We have 3 distinct classes of aura add-ons: earned/rare, unearned/common, and effectively permanent. Distortion has to compete against all 3 classes, which means the earned/rare are thrown under the bus, and the effectively permanent are unaffected.
Iron Will is still going to be mutually exclusive with Exhaustion, so it won't work against the superior Sprint Burst, and tunneling off hook already neuters Dead Hard. Having it be denied by Exhaustion is better than applying Exhaustion, because I can use Mindbreaker or any other Exhaustion add-on or perk to counter it. It gives Killers MORE counterplay by having it work the current way.
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Wraith is one of the very few Killers that Dragon's Grip works well with.
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Neither of them look that impressive to me.
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this is why atleast two people running Deja vu is important, having Deja vu and the 8 gen kicking mechanic was made so that way it won’t be easy for killers to 3 gen because the killer still has to kick gens to get oppression and dragons grip value not to mention if they also have pop, pain res, or even surge, so I think these buffs are great! The cool downs were way too long to get any type of value from these perks.
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this addon is rarely used. Most people who have a claw trap know to hold W
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Overall it’s a good update. I don’t think Dragon’s Grip or Oppression will be a problem. While it’s true Oppression can bypass the anti-3-gen to a certain extent, it’s only really relevant if survivors don’t hit the skill checks or if an affected gen that wasn’t being worked on is left to regress for a long time. The previous cooldowns were very long and only allowed the perks to be used a few times per match (and even then there was no guarantee Dragon’s did anything since it still goes on cooldown if no one gets exposed).
My 2 biggest concerns from this update are Singularity and Iron Will.
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"For slugging you need to run around the map and commit to chases, that's the opposite of 3-Gen playstyle."
So the concept of downing a Survivor, that is within a 3-Gen, and leaving them on the ground just doesnt exist? You can both Slug AND Camp a 3-Gen at the same time, both are mutually exclusive since hooking wastes time and you generate pressure by forcing Survivors off Generators so they can pick the Survivor up.
Have you ever actually taken the time to watch what Chess Merchants do now? Most go for Bleedouts while stalling, they never leave the 3-Gen and slug Survivors they down to generate pressure, most teams either give up or bleed out.
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So the concept of downing a Survivor, that is within a 3-Gen, and leaving them on the ground just doesnt exist
That's when survivor screwed it. How can Skull merchant down you inside 3-gen unless survivor runs there? If survivors are this bad, it doesn't matter anyway.
Survivor can crawl away from your 3-gen, that's why you hook deep inside 3-gen instead and proxy camp. Slugging is less optimal play in that situation.
If you lose against that, it seems kinda funny to me… Current Chess merchant is just a shadow of what Chess merchant used to be and I really can't care less about some balancing gatekeeping for this.1 -
"That's when Survivors screwed it."
Or maybe it's the Generator spread? As I mentioned, Haddonfield specifically has the worst Generator spread, and is what people have been using.
The narrow map boarders shoehorns players towards the main building, you are not given too much room to move around. The outside has 1, maybe 2, pallets that are fairly weak and can be easily forced, creating easy deadzones. The upstairs Generator is easy to defend due to it's hard to reach location combined with the only windows being weak and providing stagger. The only downstairs Generators are within breathing distance.
To put it bluntly, the option of "just running away" is not always there with that map, the way it is design easily can be abused to choke Survivors into the corner or a deadzone. And it's not like this is a massive strategical play from the Skull Merchant either, the map design is just really bad and can easily be used to create these situations.
Dead Dawg also has an awful Gen-lock but it's not as bad considering how open the map is compared to Haddonfield. And this is just with current maps, the future could hold map design that is far worse for Gen-locks and far more problematic.
"Survivors can crawl away from your 3-Gen."
Yes, they can, but they still have to waste time recovering and crawling which contribute to bleeding out. And even if the Survivors crawl out, they lose efficiency by having to get a teammate to leave the Generators to pick them up, which still Generators pressure for the Skull Merchant.
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That's really not how sabotages work, if the survivor knows what they are doing. Survivors can just wait for the killer to get near a hook, background player in front of them if necessary, and with Alex's toolbox + speed addons, they get a free hook sabotage. And when survivors do that, then the killer is often forced to drop the survivor.
And sometimes I've seen a survivor sabotage a hook, then run in front of the killer while the killer tries to get to the next hook… and the survivor sabotages that hook too. There's just not enough risk involved, when Alex's toolbox + speed addons are used.
And for reals, there's no such thing as the "superior Sprint Burst". Dead hard is in the top 10 perks, so don't bother trying to convince me that it's a weak perk.
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Or maybe it's the Generator spread?
I am not talking about 3-gen, but survivor let the killer to down them inside 3-gen, that's huge mistake and shouldn't happen unless instadown.
Yes, they can, but they still have to waste time recovering and crawling which contribute to bleeding out.
If I hook you, you don't get the option → way better.
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"…that's a huge mistake and shouldn't happen unless instadown"
This kind of brings us full circle since Dragon's Grip is being buffed.
"If I hook you, you don't get the option → way better."
I disagree, mainly since the Skull Merchants I have seen dont do it, but maybe it is better, it could just be based on the playstyle or situation. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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They do it, because it's more annoying for survivors, it's definetly not better. Hooked survivor inside your 3-gen is very difficult to recover from, if she won't pick up, that's kinda easy ticket to recover.
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That is how sabotages work if the Killer knows what they are doing and only 1 Survivor is attempting to sabo. If 2 are attempting to sabo, then the Killer can drop and now has 3/4 Survivors occupied, same as with a hook. It doesn't matter how super-duper the Survivor is as long as the Killer hasn't unbound the drop button. Sabos only work to unshoulder to injured if the Killer isn't using their brain.
Maps have so many hooks nowadays I had a day with 2 matches with 3 good sabos (hooks in the direction the Killer was or was heading) on a single carry attempt (and a prot hit on one of them), and the Killer was still able to get the hook on the 4th hook in the area. They are everywhere, and even with BP, you can't be every direction at once.
Oh DH is in the top 10, but Sprint Burst is also in the top 10, and higher on that list isn't it? Doesn't that make it superior? Personally I don't trust DH with latency because I get an above average amount of VPN for lagvantage Killers due to where I live. But even the sweatlord central has SB picked (Multiplicative ~12%, Additive 1.43%) more often than DH. I'm not saying DH is weak, I'm saying SB is stronger, which is all superior means in the context of Exhaustion perks. Lithe is limited by having a vault location and the Killer not corralling you in the direction they want, DH is limited by not being tunneled already into Deep Wound or being healthy and instadowned, but Sprint Burst works as long as you aren't exhausted, but to be fair you are limited by having to use it immediately.
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it isn't an issue. you deplete all 8 kicks and killer cannot regress gens. oppression has trouble being relevant due to 400% regression. Dragon grip is niche perk still. None of perk that are being changed will enter meta or high relevancy.
I'm all ears got wrong buff. they needed remove cooldown and make levels scale off range like 36/72/126 meters.
Darkness revealed needed higher radius. 8 meter is too little. 10 meter is buffed it needed. not duration. this perk is just more oppressive in mid elementary school and still useless in normal maps. Dragon grip is too long cooldown and it only affects 1 gen.
Machine learning is still crap because you need kick gen 2 times. it is like they realize the perk is hard to trigger but don't make it easier to trigger.
resurgence doesn't heal enough. only full heal will make survivor use this perk.
autodict is the best buff they gave to survivor out the perks. it is still niche because skill-check are random. only good for bodyblocking swf's.
Solidarity doesn't heal enough. it might be full heal with autodict but it costs too many perk for soloq so it only SWF perk for bully bodyblocking
Despite perk changes not being good, I appreciate them changing perks because changing perk is better than no change at all.
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Yes making 3 random gens regress or giving a "skill" check every 40s if someone is on is obviously too strong!
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