Weave Attunement needs changes
As it is now:
WA is currently the only Killer aura-reading perk that has no cooldown or a timer. Since the event and thanks to a lot of streamers and content creators this perk is becoming more and more prevalent in most matches. Oft combined with Franklin's Demise ot other killer add-ons that make a survivor drop an item. It is horrendous to go against in SoloQ. Additionally, the spoken of counter doesn't work as effectively as most think, because you simply don't always have the time to go find a dropped item, pick it up, and place it in the corner of the map. This doesn't even work as well on certain smaller maps either, especially indoor ones, like Midwich. We can't all be expected to use OoO just to counter this perk. I personally prefer not to use Distortion because that can be detrimental to fellow teammates without it.
My suggestions to balance this perk:
- Add a cooldown to the perk usage and a timer for its aura-reading capability. For example: the perk shows auras of nearby survivors (within 12 metres of a dropped item) for a duration of 6/8/10 seconds and goes on a cooldown for 40/50/60 seconds afterwards. The Oblivious status effect can remain as it is.
- Add a highlighted effect to dropped items for survivors for a duration of 20/25/30 seconds so that they at least have a chance to see dropped items on maps where it can be difficult to see certain items on.
Some examples of well-known content creators/streamers on how busted this perk can be (just to showcase how matches with WA can go):
Comments
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As a survivor main, I do not think it needs to be nerfed. It's fine. Just learn to play around it.
13 -
No it 100% needs at least the item auras for survivors affected by it. Without this change, the perk is just miserable in soloq.
It takes way too long to track down the items from your teammates. Also you are just screwed if it is a multistory map because good luck trying to find the items lost by your team if you don't even know what level it is on.
5 -
Have you seen the perk named "Distortion"… it works great! It's a Jeff perk! :)
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Maybe make it so that Weave Attunement only works with items that it drops and not things any other perk (such as Franklin's) drops. I think that's a good compromise.
1 -
Honestly, all it needs is to show to the Survivor the dropped item's aura, I'll admit it can be kinda obnoxious on certain maps and in SoloQ.
Basically anything else would just kill yet another perk that's decent and further reduce perk variety (like nearly every perk changes since 7.5.0).
4 -
The perk is fine and the counter play is clear and easy. If this is too difficult we are setting the bar so, so low.
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WA is currently the only Killer aura-reading perk that has no cooldown or a timer.
False:
- A Nurse's Calling
- Deerstalker
- Discordance
- Hex: Undying
Those Youtube videos mean nothing. There are Youtube videos for every perk saying they are "op" for clickbait. That Hag video is the worst example since aura reading is useless on Hag.
7 -
When WA was released, I was thinking that this combination does not need a nerf because there is a good amount of counterplay:
- Perks: Distortion and Object of Obsession counter this Perk fairly well. The more common Off the Record also counters this Perk well but is a special case.
- You get a notification when you affected by this Perk and can look for the item to pick it up and then place it somewhere on the edge of the map.
- When you have an item, just drop it on the edge of the map. In case of Toolboxes, you always use these on the first generator and it unlikely that a killer could find you - but possible. It removes the option to Flashlight save but Pallets saves are still possible and when you cannot do saves you sit on Generators.
- Do a last second switch in the lobby.
- We also have to keep in mind that the killer has to use two Perkslots to make it work.
However, what makes me think that WA should get a nerf is the fact that it affects other Perks in an unhealthy way. If we look at the Distortion stats from nightlightgg we can see that much more players use this perk since the introduction of WA (Patch 8.0.0). Of cause, Distortion was and is always a top10 perk but the jump from 9.15% to 11.74% (38625 → 52723 is +20.000) is noticeable. I'm also expecting that Distortion will become much more popular due to WA. More players use Distortion means that other aura reading Perks and Add-Ons become less used which means killers will run more slowdown Perks. Of cause, running slowdown is always the most common killer choice but it is a different between running it because it is strong or running it because it is the only viable choice you have. Don't get wrong, in my option Distortion needs a tweak/nerf to make aurareading Perks more viable - nerfing WA won't make Distortion a neverused Perk. But nerfing Distortion without nerfing WA would be a mistake because then - I am pretty sure - Object Of Obsession will take over Distortions place which results in the same situation that aurareading Perks and Add-Ons become unreliable and killers feel like to run slowdown. Another issue is the missing mindgames: When a killer has constantly the information about your location, mindgames on the survivorside are impossible (e.g. you cannot fake a window vault on a TL when the killer has no line of sight because he has the aura information). In the PTB-Feedback I made a point about how healthy mindgames for both sides are and that Iron Will will remove this and turn the game in an unhealthy direction, so why should be okay when Perk removes the ability to mindgame on the other side? Of cause, the item has to be on a tile/loop to remove any possible mindgame on the survivorside but this is easier than you think. I played alot of games with WA+Franklins and was able to hit survivor on a good spot because survivors run during a chase into the map or to a strong tile and then you hit them there and WA will give you a huge value. The survivor is also in this moment unable to pick the item up and later another survivor has the issue that they is affected by WA and unable to do any mindgames. I hope you get the point. Of cause, you could run Object Of Obsession to get the mindgame ability back but I also played some games with OoO against WA users and it felt so akward. We knew the location of the other and nothing happened because no one was able to pull off a mindgame that either gives you an advantage or a move. It feel like the hold hatch situation when the killer was able to grab you when you jump into the hatch. The survivor was standing on the hatch and waited for the killer to hit them to get the hatch while the killer was waiting for the survivor to jump into the hatch. It is hard to explain but it does not feel healthy. Of cause, there are aurareading Perks and Addons that can do similar things but these have either a cooldown or a requierment.
Overall, WA should get a nerf because it leads the game in an unhealthy direction and removes important parts of the game.
However, I don't think the developers will really understand it and WA will stick around for the next few months until it has too much usage. Then the developers will nerf it and then two years later they will buff it back.Now the question is what kind of nerf this Perk can get that makes it less unhealthy but still viable? My suggestion:
- Survivors can now see the aura of the WA item
- This makes the Perk more manageable for SoloQ and less akward on some places or maps.
- When a survivor is in the range of the WA-item, the aura of the survivor is revealed to the killer for the next 8seconds. If the survivor leaves the range of the 10seconds are over, the affect for this survivor goes on cooldown for the next 30seconds (can be more, its just an example).
- Adding an individual timer and cooldown enables survivors to do mindgames against the killer after the timer is over. It also makes sure that the survivor is not running from one WA-item into another one. An individual timer is also important to make the Perk more useful. If the perk would go on cooldown when one survivors triggers it, it could become rather useless since a random survivor could trigger it. It should also be possible to add an individuel timer because the Perk game ofoot as a similar feature.
Sorry for my bad english but it is kinda late and I'm not in the mood for a long post.
2 -
It's really funny how a perk that requires a killer to dedicate another perk (or addon on some specific killers) to be even remotely usable and doesn't provide any gen blocking or regression effect is so problematic.
Still I fully expect it to be gutted, because why bother learning how to play against something when you can just complain endlessly about it.
5 -
Well, in any other situation, constant (or near-constant) wallhacks like that would be considered "cheating." But since WA is designed this way by the devs themselves, it's totally fine, right?
2 -
Love how the same stuff on the other side would make every killer main cry like you were using hacks. But well, wrong place to put your survivor problems man, this place is more killer sided than the game itself.
1 -
Fine, It's not like anyone playing serious will use this perk anyway, who cares when it's dead
0 -
Just play around it.
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All those perks have specific conditions to them, and those vastly differ from WA's.
0 -
Awakened Awareness would fit in that category too I'm pretty sure.
Weave Attunement also has a specific condition, though.
7 -
Thank you for getting it. I'm not even going to dignify half of the responses this feedback suggestion has gotten with a response. Most obviously don't play SoloQ and don't understand how wasteful it is to go out of your way to search for dropped items by teammates, instead of doing gens while you're in chase or a teammate is. Especially on maps with more stories it is so time-consuming to do. The counter is BS on indoor maps. The fact that most up here don't understand that shows how little experience they have.
Like try finding a dropped flashlight on Swamp or similar maps.
—
And to all of the above: it's not only Franklin's Demise that makes you drop an item, if you guys are so "pro" at the game then surely you would know that a lot of killer add-ons do that as well. Thus it's not a killer using "two" perk slots. And honestly who wouldn't use 2 perk slots when they can have chronic wallhacks? It's by far the biggest GGEZ for them en requires no forethought or skill at all.
2 -
It does: works on depleted and dropped items. But when it can be combined with other perks and add-ons and become problematic, it should be attuned at the very least. Like old COB and old DMS. Buckle Up and FTP. And so on. It's the chronic synergy it has with other mechanics that makes it busted in its current condition.
No game should have chronic wallhacks, how is that so hard to grasp for people?
2 -
People are aways saying "play around it". But provide zero explanation on how to, if your going to defend the perk, at least provide a reasonable comment on how.
I'll do it, the way I play around it is at the very start of the match, drop your item to check if the killer has it, if so, immediately put your item in the corner, since it's the start of the match this is the best time to do this, then go do generators, if there are other items on the ground, move them, even if the teammates needs the item, it's better off being in the corner considering the wallhacks can really hurt the team.
Only use the item when the killer is focused on other stuff, like chases, hooking, and defending generators, plus the right way to distract the killer is to lure him with the aura reading, take your item, and move to a safe space, if the killer comes to you, waste his time as much as possible. If the killer doesn't come, use your item to heal or do other generators. I personally think the perk is fine, but I do understand the frustration, if it were to get changed, it would need to get fully reworked, one it's useless without Franklins, and nerfing it would make it rather niche.
I run perks like COH, and other generator perks like Prove Thyself instead of items sometimes, can be quite nice if the killer is running Weave + Franklins since he has less items to gain his wallhacks from.
Let me know if you want more tips!
Post edited by Spirit_IsTheBest on3 -
I wonder if boon shadowstep might come in the meta…
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this seems high effort to counter the perk imo
best case scenario you spawn edge map and drop your item asap but chances are that when you actually need your item you'll be far from where it is and it's just more time wasted retrieving the item. Plus, you may end up bumping into the killer and dropping your item anyway (franklin's) or he just sees your aura edge map and beelines it to you?
I do get that it's only powerful w/ franklin's but in solo q most will end up dropping their items after a hit near gen, unbeknownst to you, and you'll find yourself getting aura read later; sure, pick the item up and take it edge map but once again, more time pulled from objectives
these 2 perk slots taken up almost guarantee the other 2 will be pop and pain res which are already a painfully boring combo to play against
2 -
Before we nerf this perk, by itself it's actually not that bad. It makes you drop the item when you're done using your item. I think that franklins demise is what makes this image a lot worse. It's kinda of like the Ruin Undying meta, ruin wasn't the issue it was undying. same thing here franklins is what makes weave seem way too strong.
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I would be fine in showing item aura to affected survivor. But that's about it. This would be enough to make it bearable for soloQ.
Definitely no cooldown or things like that, that would completely kill the perk. It's already very killer specific perk.
Luckily it doesn't really work on Nurse. M1 killers are not that scary with it in my opinion and if you get OoO against it, they have an issue...
2 -
Did you read the entirety of my post? I don't think you have, please do so again and read your own. I said I KNOW the "work-around" it still doesn't do anything in SoloQ. Nor on maps with multiple levels.
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Learn to read the entire post please before you add a comment that doesn't add anything of value to the conversation.
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Not really Shadowstep but there are tons of Distortions (overall to deny information perks after UW gutting) and way more OoO, which I am quite happy about, because I don't really use aura reading perks anymore (mostly because of mentioned perks).
Spies and Surveillance are my main information perks now.
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I did, I was addressing the others in the comments that were saying just play around it, while not providing no explanation on how, sorry for the mixup.
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Also, I was adding value by explaining some ways to counter it, because it's clear some people have frustrations with it, but that's how I do it mainly.
I clearly stated in my comment that any nerf would make the perk a lot more niche, and instead it should receive a rework in my opinion, the perk by itself is useless without Franklins as well.
Nothing personal, but some comments aren't addressed to only the creator of the discussion.
0 -
I can confirm, a SWF with someone packing OoO can essentially deny any Killer that can't hide their aura/teleport to avoid the aura-read.
We stopped doing that after 2 games because it was just sad having two Killers DC in one day because the only person they could find was in the main building of Autohaven (which is a borderline infinite against M1 Killers) because everybody else left and hid ages before the Killer ever reached their gens. Poor Oni wasted all regression events on a gen before 3 gens were done…and also because it was annoying getting told rather unsavory terms after each games.
2 -
Damn, main building as M1 killer without power. That's definitely a bad time for killer.
1 -
That wasn't addressed to you and when you post something on a thread someone has made without quoting someone else, it's normal to assume that you are talking to the creator.
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The problem doesn't lie with SWF though. SWF does wonderful in this game. The perk is as always horrendous to go against and to counter in SoloQ, And we all know that BHVR is allergic to doing anything for SoloQ.
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Oh I know, I was just following what @VomitMommy said before.
I think the last time anything substantial was done for SoloQ to try to bridge the gap between them and SWF was around 6.1.0 where they added the chase & action icons next to character portraits. I honestly believe that, barring the arrival of Skull Merchant & a few bumps, the period between 6.1.0 and 7.5.0 was among the most fun ones for both sides before it started to go downhill.
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in my opinion, weave attunement is healthy perk for killer. it creates risk for using items for survivors and forces the survivor to adapt their gameplay. the comparison i would make with this perk is Max C in Yugioh. It creates counter-play for going 2nd.
3 -
The Perk is fine, even in Combo with Franklin's Demise. It's finally a strong, fun and also fair Perk that isn't a Gen Slowdown Perk. There is a Counter Perk and the Counter Strategy is not that hard to learn. However, i agree with the Highlighted Effect for like 10 Seconds on the dropped Item.
3 -
No it's a crutch perk and requires literally zero skill from a killer. If everyone here is as good as they're all stating they are then they don't even need such a crutch perk, now would they? But they all do because everyone is okay with having chronic wallhacks. Give me a break and maybe get good at finding survivors without needing chronic wallhacks. This game literlaly has crows and a snitch horse that tell your where survivors are/have been. So be real and at least admit that you need the training wheels, because this perk isn't healthy the way it is now nor in the way it synergizes with other perks/add-ons.
Take away its synergy with Franklin's and the add-ons that make you drop items and let's all see how many people still use this perk them, hm?
Agreed. What might be some sort of solace but is a bit off-topic here is that they've added a system that allows you to see your fellow teammates' classes in the 2v8 game mode, so maybe that same type of mechanic is in the works for showing perks in the lobby? IDK, just wishful thinking atp.
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No it's a crutch perk and requires literally zero skill from a killer. If everyone here is as good as they're all stating they are then they don't even need such a crutch perk, now would they? But they all do because everyone is okay with having chronic wallhacks. Give me a break and maybe get good at finding survivors without needing chronic wallhacks. This game literlaly has crows and a snitch horse that tell your where survivors are/have been. So be real and at least admit that you need the training wheels, because this perk isn't healthy the way it is now nor in the way it synergizes with other perks/add-ons.
this entire paragraph could be paraphrase with survivor items. Stop using crutch like red syringe instant -heals. They require 0 skill from survivor. If everyone is as good as they say they are, they don't need crutch items to carry them to victory. Healing mid-chase is unhealthy with the way it synergies with survivor second chance mechanics.
-Weave attunement, the perk. there is my summary of your paragraph.
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First, the perk without Franklin would jump into "never used" category.
Second, it seems the problem is in your SoloQ teammates rather than the perk itself. The perk has counterplay and its totally on the survivor's hands, and they seem to be adapting well because i never see killers using the perk now.
For you, you know where you drop your item. Go for it after the chase and move it into the border of the map. Now, you dont need to keep searching for your teammate items: just play normally. If in any moment you see the WA icon, now you know that the item is close and you can actually get it easily, knowing the area is just a circle around the item. But again, that should be on your teammates mind, not yours.
The same way i think that we should stop nerfing things because Nurse exist, i think that is about time we stop nerfing things because SoloQ exist.
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You're hilarious to assume that I'm using all the mentioned items and not my teammates. Go use your crutch perk, we get it buddy, you truly need it. GJ parroting without adding anything of value to the conversation or having an inkling about the issues the perk has on the gameplay with the way it synergizes.
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You must be new. No one here or at BHVR gives a flying fork about SoloQ, nor have the devs nerfed anything for SoloQ. The problem doesn't lie with SoloQ players but the lack of information they have and how this perk works on smaller maps/some specific parts of the map.
So no worries, you will get to keep your crutch perk as it is probably.
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Been playing since almost dbd release, almost 3k hours, even if sometimes i play games like i am new. 😂
But seriously now, i was thinking more on the people that always say "we should buff/nerf this because of SoloQ". I see that said a lot, the same way sometimes we cannot keep nice things because Nurse or even Blight exist, and that's a shame.
Funny thing tho, i think one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) buffs in DbD history is the in game HUD that tells the information on what are the teammates doing. Now if you say "bruh my teammates still dont read it" then again is your mates mental fault, but i think BHVR actually care about soloQ a lot.
That said, im totally in on making the survivors see each other perks in the lobby at least.
2 -
For those that are completely ignorant on how to counter Weave Attunement, I'll spell it out for you since some of you need hand holding.
1) At the start of the trial, test for WA. Set your item down. Get the WA proc? Cool. Now you know the killer has WA. Pick up item and run.
2) Decide if using the item is actually worth it or not. If it is, use item but avoid using it's last few charges.
3) Set item down on edge or corner of map.
There you go. Now you can counter WA. Stop crying and learn to play around it.3
