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The Nemesis changes??

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  • Member Posts: 184

    Annnnnd i forgot to tag you, my bad, you can see my answer to your post above this one.

  • Member Posts: 4,344
    edited February 5

    All fair, and I guess it is subjective, and my own personal disdain. I suppose my real issue is, while I respect the Resident Evil franchise, I had a similar reaction to RE3 as I've had here.

    I was actually quite annoyed to learn of how much of a tank in RE3R Jill is. I've always argued that one of the strongest aspects of Resident Evil is the fact that even regular zombies are dangerous (something woefully lacking in many other franchises). Even the regular scrubs are entities to be feared, especially in RE1.

    This praise has to have an asterisk with RE3R... I'm not trying to rag on the game, its got many great moments... however Nemesis is canonically insanely fast and powerful, lightyears beyond the threat of regular zombies... and yet Jill withstands a kick and even a chokeslam from him right at the start if the game?

    This is already not good, you could have done many things that would have been far better to create a desperate situation without making Nemesis look weak. Like if he just squished her head when he had hold of her like he should have done, the game ends right there... Her plot armour is insane in that game, and no matter how much of a fan I am of the franchise as a whole, I can't help but wince at how ridiculous these moments are, and how much they lower the stakes cause I know any desperate situation for Jill can just have the Universe bend to her will to give her a a get outbof jail free card... this does a real number on the perceived threat of the Nemesis when he goes selectively stupid at certain moments.

    This moment we'll chalk it up to artistic license and ignore it, but this is not something we should get into the habit of doing... and this frustration hits a boiling point for me when she gets hit by a rocket launcher and survives...

    My basic problem is... I don't look at Jill surviving that rocket launcher hit as "Oh wow! That was close! How lucky and tough Jill must be to survive that!"... what I actually think is "Wait wut? Seriously? She survived that!? Yikes... either I have to accept the writing is absolutely ass... or Nemesis' Rocket Launcher is canonically a complete piece of crap... it can't kill a regular human on a near point blank detonation. If it can't even do that, why the hell is he using it? He himself is 10 times more dangerous than this piece of garbage?". Or at least I would if it weren't for the aforementioned problem.

    I suppose if I'm honest with myself, this is probably why I push back on it so hard... it was done poorly in RE3R and annoyed me there, and it would annoy me just as much in DBD, the same way I criticise Chris punching the boulder... I don't consider that to exactly be a highlight of the series.

    The other examples you've given of thimgs in DBD are something I can perceive as survivable... you can imagine a hit being made that wasn't flush in these cases. Hatchet to the shoulder, harpoon misses vital organs, dracula flames catching the leg, Pyramid Head knife getting glancing blow, even the flames of the turret would burn you, but not kill you, and if you dashed through them quickly, you might get away with only minor burns or none at all...

    When it comes to exploaives on the other hand... there is no way to survive being in a rocket launchers blast radius... yes it did it in RE3R... But I levy the same criticisms at that game, and I don't think just because the source turns its brain off and does something silly that contradicts its own world rules, it's should be a free license for DBD to do the same.

    However... all of that said... it IS a iconic part of the game... so perhaps I should just step aside on this one ๐Ÿ˜’

  • Member Posts: 184

    Fair enough !

    If you perceive everything i said as "yeah i can survive it" then i understand you better, that's why we are not on the same page, because i don't think i would.

    I agree on that RE3R part, i was, just like you, completly baffled when Jill survived Nemesis smashing trought a wall, grabbing her and tossing her into the building on fire, or the rocket hit, or everything else actually.

    Unlike you however, i am no fan of Resident Evil as a whole, i really love Nemesis and H.U.N.K but that's about it. Nemesis even in the OG was always ridiculous, he had the same weak RPG and ridiculous raw power, it's in the DNA of Resident Evil at this point and why i can't take anything seriously about it. Leon and Chris are also ridiculously overpowered. Just like you said, the boulder punching scene is... well, there i guess.

    IDK why i love Nemesis that much, it's the only RE i played a lot and did all trophies/runs on it, never played any other RE except the second one which is excellent.

    In Silent Hill, i can completly get behind the protag because i could see myself being clumsy in my movement or survived getting hit by a knife or a steel pipe, in RE tho, yeah no way, the two first maybe, after that it's BS after BS, and that's part of the RE charm i guess. RE3, RE4, RE5, RE6, RE7, RE8 are all ridiculous.

    I guess Capcom always had something with overly powerfull human, just look at Monster Hunter, it's ridiculous but hilarous at the same time.

    Nemesis does not need the RPG to be Nemesis however, you don't have to "step aside", you have your view of thing, if we had to bend each tile we are not in the majority, we would be damned.

    People do not understand that we are not getting Nemesis from RE3, we are getting an adapation of Nemesis from RE3.

    In the same vein that we are not getting a 7 m/s Xenomorph with ovomorphs, wall crawling, and every other BS things that would never work in dbd.

    At the end of the day, modern Resident Evil IS a "turn my brain off" franchise logic/realism why, every one of them has something ridiculous and i think that is why RE is so successfull, it's over the top, it's goofy, probably the least horror of the horror games, it's simply super entertaining and creative. It's way more action than it is horror and i think people love that, just see the debate between Alien and Aliens. One is horror, the other is action and horror adjacent, see which one is the favorite. Chucky is in the same vein, absolutly not a true horror movie, it's action/comedy horror and it works.

  • Member Posts: 4,344

    Hmmm... Can't argue with any that ๐Ÿ˜…

    Your Aliens analogy especially is on point... I've been joking for years "there are only 2 Alien movies, 2 Terminator movies, 1 Predator film and 1 Jurassic Park... shocking they never made a sequels to these franchises"... I tend to selectively ignore bad sequels xD

    I suppose RE is in a similar camp to Evil Dead really, and I suppose FNAF as well when I think about it... If you look at the first entries in each, they are quite serious in tone and horror, any goofy moments are unintentional through limitations, and while they are all limited in some way shape or form, they take a simple premise and do a hell of a lot with it.

    In all 3 cases as the series goes on they get more outlandish and ridiculous, and yet surprisingly the later entires are all the more popular entries.

    E.g. I was shocked to find out that Army of Darkness is rated so much higher than either Evil Dead... to me it was a joke film, one where you literally take nothing seriously, and if you're wanting a horror film, you're in the wrong movie. I can't understand those who call it "the best of the Evil Dead series", because in terms of the horror goal of Evil Dead... it fails miserably (and even Evil Dead 2 walks a line of being too goofy, but at least it does actually maintain the horror element quite well).

    I guess RE is the same. I very much like the serious tone and stakes of the original Resident Evil Remake... yes the puzzles take a bit of suspension of disbelief, but they are fun to solve and the tone isn't irreparably damaged.... RE3 asks a little too much of my suspension of disbelief, and if I'm focusing on the elements I personally liked from RE1... RE3 does a lot of things that hurt my investmentโ€ฆ

    But I guess that's the entire point, and people like myself aren't the target audience ๐Ÿ˜…๐Ÿ˜…๐Ÿ˜…

  • Member Posts: 184

    That's for sure, we are not the target audience, everytime i say that i heavily dislike AvP and how they massacred the Xenomorph legacy to be a prey to the Predator, i feel like an actual Alien in the room.

    Alien is not some Godzilla to be paired with Kong, we could say "absolute cinema" but now, Alien is more about AvP than it's own thing, i feel like people are more fans of AvP than the actual Alien IP that just continues to get massacred again and again after every title. I played board games, video games, read the books and even the comics and i have never found the vibe of the first Alien i so wished to see again. A mysterious, almost mysthical, perfect organism, smart, lethal, adaptative, not some big dumb cockroaches who zooms at you in a direct line.

    I enjoyed Prometheus and Covenant way more than half the things they made after Alien. Aliens was great, but i don't like how the Xenomorph got killed so easily, the perferct organism just got demolished by some rando marines who did not even take them seriously at first, the movie achieve greatness with a lot of tense moments like the barricade scene and great charcaters like Newt, but there is numerous things that i dislike about the whole concept.

    Im still conflicted about the whole Queen deal, i found the Eggmorphing way more original and intriguing. Still Aliens i great, i can't give it too much crap it really that good, but it declined after that and had some really bad ideas.

    Prometheus at least tried to get back to the Gigeresque mysthic that i craved, Covenant fumbled giga hard but at least it tried something different. I disliked the whole "David was the creator" as much as the next guy, and i do think it's an oversight since we see Xenomorph representation on walls in Prometheus. David can't create something that is already represented on an old wall now, could he ?

    I also disliked how everyone, Xenomorph included was so dumb, i could see the strings from my seat.

    Im still curious about a third "Prometheus" movie for what it could do and i prefer a movie like that over another Romulus.

    Romulus..... Ah Romulus, i saw the Alien 1 vibe and got fooled, i wished for something that just, was not delivered.

    Amazing visuals, cool actors and all but what did this movie bring to the table ? Nothing. The Aliens are a joke, they just gets demolished by someone who never ever used a rifle before, so much for a perfect organism. The only actual great scene in Romulus for me is the elevator one when an Alien is hiding right next to them and you see it crawl in the backscene only to impale a guy with it's tail. Sneaky, smart, perfect. You know the thing that isn't iconic about the Alien and that should not be it's power despite the fact that it is it's primary weapon in every entry and the most lethal thing in it's arsenal alongside the "Kiss of death".

    The Alien in the first movie was cunning, stealthy, lethal, it did not need to be a flashy dash mad lad or cheesy monster doing big hiss before dying to a pulse rifle. Aliens and Romulus just said "Hey, there are 135 Aliens in this station, just make them run at them like idiots, marines will kill 24 of them, but guess what, we have some more ants coming ! If we make them all smart, then or heroes will have no chance whatsoever, go big dum dum". Absolute massacre to how the first Alien was portrayed. Almost anything from the first movie was lost, even alongside the fanbase.

    Rant's over, i got carried away, but yeah, like you said, we are not the target audience ... You must feel something akin to this toward Resident Evil i guess.

  • Member Posts: 4,344

    Thoroughly enjoyable read... it feels kinda naff to just respond with "agree with everything", but that's genuinely my response. ๐Ÿ˜…

    I feel similarly passionate about Saw as a franchise. The films are varying in quality through 1 to 6, but at least it sticks to it's original point and premise... but SAW 3D onwards just completely loses the entire point, and focuses on gorey traps without any actual understanding of the actual idea and motivations of John Kramer at all.

    Jigsaw was so bad I recall being in the middle of SAW rewatch fan boy tripโ€ฆ you could have been bland as paste and I would still have lapped it up... but that film actively assaulted the logic centre in my brain... My shifting emotional investment from near blind fan-boy to raging nerd over the course of an hour was a surreal experience. Its like every second I thought about it, the eorse it got... I felt like a rat being experimented on to see how much stupid crap I could tolerate before my mind would crack. ๐Ÿ˜…

    Sadly this is common in way too many horror franchises... for some reason they all revert to schlock, action and/or comedy at some point... Don't get me wrong, I like action and comedy... but if you're trying to get me to fear an entity, these things aren't the right direction to go xD

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