PLEASEEE BHVR BUFF SOLO QUEUE
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These are the games where survivors kill themselves on first hook. I don't know exactly what data they have available, but presumably they could just look for games where survivors immediately try and fail to escape the first hook and then die without getting unhooked. If survivors are giving up in other ways that would be less obvious, but usually it does seem to be a DC or a suicide on the first hook.
I have no reason to distrust this number as I haven't noticed high numbers of hook suicides against any killer. I almost never have survivors do this when I'm playing killer, I never do this myself, my party mates never do this when we're playing in SWF, and even in solo queue it doesn't happen very much with my teammates.
I could easily see a world where it's 2.5% overall, but <1% in four-man squads and ~5% in solo queue. That's enough that you'd see it in a typical evening of playing. You might see a DC or two as well, and then all of a sudden you're at your couple of solo queue games a night with teammates throwing. It could well be MMR dependent too.
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Where did you see this 2.5% number? I would LOVE to screenshot it and make a thread seeing if it's anywhere close to what anyone is experiencing. From my own experience, having teammates kill themselves at the start of the trial was SO common, it was happening at least 25% of games and was the reason I stopped solo Qing. Your saying that Skull merchant, the killer with probably the HIGHEST rates of hook suicides, was getting 2.5%?
So yeah... I'd love a screenshot. Not saying you're lying, but SOMEONE is.
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I agree with all these, actually. These would be fine. But then the caveat is, if you have these, Kindred becomes useless and needs a new effect.
This is exactly how the game should be for a HORROR. GAME. People might not find the game scary anymore, but the game is still a HORROR. GAME. That means Survivors SHOULD lose more and SHOULD be disadvantaged. This is a horror asymmetric game. The Killer is, as HerInfernal says right here, there as a skillcheck. What fun is a game with easy wins even half the time in a HORROR. GAME? I don't want it easy when I play Survivor. I don't want a 50% winrate or higher as Survivor. I wanna struggle and feel like my escape was actually worth a damn, not like the Killer had to scrape and scrape to get a draw… which is (and yes, naysayers, the stats and math DO check out here, you're wrong that they don't because that's how stats work) what a 50/50 split WOULD and DID cause the last time we had it.
Ever wonder why we DON'T have a 50/50 split anymore? It's because it doesn't feel good on Killer side at ALL because of how the game itself pushes the idea of "3k or bust or you're a failure" with how it scores things. It's because the game was so miserable when we did have a 50/50 split, *Killer players quit.* The same thing happened during MFT era, Killer players quit. And then, Survivors had no games, or massive queue times, and only went against Nurse, Blight, Wesker, Spirit on repeat running full slowdown almost every round, because no other Killers could touch them. Is that really what we want again? No?
Then accept the game needs, for the sake of its health, to be at a 60/40 split and stop complaining you don't get to win more. Learn to savor the wins you do get. Stop being greedy for wins. You think it's that easy and wanna win that hard? Go play Killer. Ideally, go play an M1 Killer without any mobility and antiloop. Play until you get good Survs and then play a bit more. Then you can come back here and tell me how "easy" Killer is now… and that's when Killer is at the best it has ever. Been.
Repeating that, Killer is in the best shape it's ever been, so how miserable was it before that NOW only NOW it is in a good state overall? That is what you're asking to return to with a 50% Killrate, it's unfair. Nobody is going to stand for that. When will all of you asking for a 50/50 rate just admit you want easy peasy Survivor games again where you can make the Killer look like an absolute buffoon and call it a day?
Post edited by GonnaBlameTheMovies on2 -
Easy… because high MMR killers and survivors get there either by overuse of strong perks, using strong strats, or actually having enough gamesense to know how long and when to chase - and sometimes they still have to commit. The average high MMR Killer is not going to bloodlust III someone for no reason. The average high MMR Survivor is probably good at looping and running chase perks. Of course the high MMR chases last longer, both opponents are better matched at outplaying each other.
By the way, 70 seconds is 1 minute and 10 seconds. 1 minute is of course, 60 seconds. So high MMR chases last longer than low MMR chases, is the correct conclusion to take from this, and that pretty much tracks. Of course they take longer when the opponent is more skilled.
Please use the same format for things like times, don't try to skew evidence by hiding it in words.
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Because friend, and let's say this together now… Killers need to be able to know where gens are to help find where Survivors are. They need it to cut down chase. They need it to find their hooks in a timely manner. They need it so they don't waste time on their goals.
Sorta like how Survivors need loops and pallets to be able to hold their own in a chase because they are slower than Killers. It's called a basekit mechanic. It's not going anywhere.
Meanwhile, you don't, definitley DO NOT need that info as Survivor. There's bright yellow fabric on every vault and all pallets are red and blue, WoO is not a necessity even in SoloQ. Hell, I escape games without it all the time.
Please just admit you think SoloQ players are stupid and need this autopilot perk to do well. They don't. I don't think they do. And I see lots wrong with free info you get just for loading in as Surv on all routes in the map, but nothing wrong with just making it have a teensy-tiny cooldown; how would that impact how the perk works at all? Tell me, why do YOU think Survivors deserve to freely know where everything is, but Killers shouldn't get that at all?
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I can confirm even when I am playing annoying Killers like Pinhead, I actually rarely see anyone just give up instantly on hook. And when I do see it? I usually let someone go. I see DCs even less. Usually when I see them it's because they seem to be upset they failed to loop me, didn't get to do a certain thing, or failed at something… or their map offering didn't work, etc. It's almost always a salt response.
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I think these are all great suggestions and don’t think it would cause any problems at any level of play
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This has gotta be the only community I've ever seen that expects their opponents to just not try to win. It's nuts.
Sure, you can come in with a casual mindset. Are your three teammates? If three gens pop in the first chase are you gonna lay off the gas and goof around and let the killer catch up? Of course not. No group of survivors has ever done that for me.
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My point is that it's just taken for granted that one is okay and other is not but its just arbitrary. You just walk around the map you' ll find the generators, they are not that far apart, when survivors are working on them you will hear them, etc. I mean, you are saying survivors are stupid if they need windows, well it sounds to me like killers are stupider if they can't even find the generators that literally make a sound while vaults and pallets do not. So basically I am just pointing out a double standard that is there for no reason. I'm not saying killers shouldn't be able to see the generators, I'm just saying that the idea that one is automatically fine while the other is not is not valid. Since Bhvr. wants to make this into completely a chase oriented game they should lean into it, let both sides know what resources they have available and then whoever can actually execute the best will win. If WoO just causes survivors to run from pallet to pallet dropping them then they will use up all the resources and make an easy win for the killer anyway, so even with it they will still have to develop skill to actually use that information in an effective way.
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they aren't gonna do that here's the thing if you play any game you realize that ppl that play in a group that are competent is really REALLY small most of the games that becomes too much in a no groups setting usually loses a lot of players or worst they die dbd ain't gonna die i'm not saying that but will def lose a lot of there player base you'll def will feel the impact in the long run
the funny thing is currently 2v8 did solved a lot of the current issues like for example the class system covers all the basis of seeing the killer seeing the the map environment windows pallets info that you get in swf seeing gens you get to see the class in lobby witch you can adjust your own class to complement ect ect.. you get the ideal and on top of it the cage system fixes all the proxy/tunneling problems outside of slugging a majority of the problem got fix in 2v8 bdb almost beat it's peak all time players count and was around 80-75k players strong all the time the game mode was up
here what's gonna happens the population overtime will decline if 2v8 doesn't become permanent i know they said it will but just in case covering my basis or when 2v8 comes out 1v4 will fall into irreverently witch will hurt behavior bottom line in the long run unless they go full skin micro to compensate they really need to address it there gonna be a rude awakening for em they need to address 1v4 soloq or it will fall in the long terms funny enough 2v8 was fun for both sides so yeah
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You'll have to ask @I_CAME - I didn't see the stream myself. 2.5% is a lot closer to my experience than 25%, so I wouldn't doubt that figure.
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How many times do I need to say it?
Killers need to find Survs to chase. Survs are often near gens, so they need to know where their gens are to find Survivors. They need to have an idea of where their "flags" that Survivors "capture" are for that reason. This game is capture the flag meets tag meets hide and seek. Protecting gens is to a point part of the description of Killer. It's not arbitrary, it's not "taken for granted". It's part of the game basekit, the same way other things are part of the basic game balance.
To make this game work in the 1v4, Killers need to know where gens are to strategize against the team. It helps them, basically, plan things out because they are alone working against four people, so they HAVE to think and plan quickly across the whole map, which means they need to know basically the whole map. They can't really go looking for Survs at the start if they have no clue where Survivors will be because they have no clue where gens will be… or do you really think it's fair to make Killers waste even more time searching for gens and also Survivors instead of just… chasing Survivors? That doesn't seem right or very fair to me at all that you think Survivors need to know where all resources are at, but not Killers.
You cannot seriously think the game would be better if the Killer had to flail around looking for where Survs are just GUESSING where gens MIGHT be on the map from the word go, my guy. That's like saying Survivors should never get haste after being hit, have no pallets, and have no loops. Those are all Survivor resourced the way gens are part of a Killer's resources to protect and prevent Survivors from escaping. Holding down gens is how they waste Survivor time to get Kills, and gens are where Survivors cluster so it makes sense they know where gens are to check for Survivors easier to chase them. They are supposed to guard them to some degree and there's even an emblem for it, because guarding gens means preventing the Survivor's objective means more time for their objective. Why are you asking to take away a functionality basekit that helps Killers chase Survivors, isn't that what we want Killers to do more of? Chase, I mean?
Post edited by GonnaBlameTheMovies on2 -
The issue with 2v8 though is it so heavily splits the queues in ways that modes like say, Chaos Shuffle and Lights Out or the events don't, it actually breaks the game badly. 2v8 can't be permanent until it's fully realized and balanced, and it just is not there yet. There's not enough Killers in 2v8 yet to warrant it, and there's not enough novelty for people to want to play more Survivor in it. I agree it should be some kind of ongoing mode, just not right now. It needs to be polished more, which is why I am glad it's not coming around as permanent any time soon. In fact, just making Chaos Shuffle, which also solved many of these issues, permanent right now would probably be the much better option; 2v8 is NOT there yet and any attempts to bring it back sooner are only going to cause more problems than help.
I do need to point out much of that peak you mention for 2v8 actually came from the free weekend. After a few days, it declined to a more normal rate even after the extension. And in that time, it so destroyed queue times because of it pulling people away from the main mode, it was hard to even find a game as Killer in 2v8 or the main mode. It just can't come permanent yet, no matter how much everyone wants it.
The population is actually, currently stable without 2v8. Populations of players always decline between chapter releases and events, we have a PTB on right now pulling people away, and a mode that many people aren't all that into just ended anyway. Your argument does not make sense because there is no actual playerbase decline.
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You're just too biased to discuss this with. I was just using the generators thing as an example but you take it all literally. Also if i was to say lets reduce the kill rate by 1% you say "you want to go down to 50% kill rate and let killera never get 4k". It's like you see everything in black and white.
My whole point was just saying people act like its insane to even considet making windows basekit but they just accept the generator auras as a matter of course. I am just saying i think the game has gone SLIGHTLY too far killer sided as of late, I am not saying to go back to 50% kill rate. You disagree with me, fine, but don't imply that I am saying something I am not.
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i still think soloq should have bond base-kit. it would improve reliance of med-kits in soloq for self-healing, hook save optimization and the direction that survivor loops killers. i don't think survivor itself needs buffs outside of that but many survivor feel that proxy camping hooks and killer tunneling is too effective in average game, so perhaps adding 60 second of borrow time power-up and doubling the proxy meter system like Light Out would be strong base-kit buffs for survivor. these would reduce reliance of anti-tunnel perks. Anti-tunnel perks like decisive strike and exhaustion perks might need some changes to potentially accommodate anti-tunnel and proxy camping changes.
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People just don't get the point of my post, what i mean is if the game was more focused on the casual side of it, it would be more fun for both sides, that means both sides SHOULD have their satisfactiory moments for ex, being able to survive for more than a minute in chase, or having good predictions on your power. And that also means the game SHOULD be more focused on the chases or 1v1 aspect, leaving behind the stas bcs it doesnt make sense if most people don't even understand how the stats works. I WOULD love the game if the devs implements ideas from a Moba game bcs that would definitely solve many problems, but that's just an idea.
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The only way they can balance out survivors with solo queue is by introducing voice chat into the game and incorporating communication into the balancing efforts. Problem with that is that a vast majority of the people solo queuing also aren't running any sort of voice communication or are just unwilling to engage in voice chat. This would end up hurting solo queue even more. because balancing would be skewed towards teams.
On the other hand if they don't incorporate voice chat they're always going to have the problem of just how powerful voice chat is with any size SWF group. Being able to communicate across map is stronger than any perk in the game. There is no way that the survivor/killer relationship can be effectively balanced without taking it into consideration.
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YOU'RE A MAIN KILLER PROBABLY THIS IS NOT A PLACE FOR YOU
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PLEASE BHVR CHANGE YOUR FOCUS INTO SURVIVORS SOLO QUEUE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
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You assumed right, but I don't think there will be any people that agree with you outside of the ones that straight up love to play broken perks.
Old DH was way, way too strong, it would've been okay if it ether was a dash or I-frames but it was both. There were killers that are able to counter it, but most of them were already relatively strong or even one of the strongest, DH completely destroyed low tier killers without any way to play around it. That's why it got nerfed 2 times by now and is STILL an insane perk if used well, that being said it's a lot harder now outside of chucky dashes I guess xD
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