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Wesker is far from A tier after the two nerfs to infection.
This killer is nowhere near spirit, dracula, chucky, oni, huntress.
his power is fodder at certain loops.
calling him A tier after the nerfs is insane.
how did this mf get nerfed with 0 compensation buffs or how did this killer get nerfed before anyone above him???
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Good.
His kit has way too much in it. The nerfs were justified.
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all of the killers I listed have better fitted kits…
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All the killer's you listed should be next on the chopping block for nerfs. Wesker is fine.
Post edited by LadyOwO on12 -
that's just not going to happen though is it, nor is otr or any other strong survivor perk going to be nerfed.
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What were the nerfs?
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It very likely will happen, yes. They're constantly making balance changes. Many strong perks on both sides have been nerfed over the years as well, including in the current PTB.
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Agreed 💯
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Nerfing the A tier killers while leaving Nurse, Blight and Hillbilly as S tier is wild to me. Especially the first two. Nurse just needs an entirely different power she screws the game so hard (and no, she doesn't counter pay to win arguments. Most of the S tiers are free or grindable)
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Since they nerfed his infection they really need to reduce his base power cooldown. Having 12 seconds cooldown for his 2 dashes is kinda insane. Should probably be somewhere between 4 to 5 seconds for a dash to recharge. Also after grinding Dracula and getting the hang of the wolf form, playing Wesker just feels off(and I have played hundreds of hours as this killer), the environmental collision is really unpleasant and I think it would not hurt to give Wesker the same hitbox as wolf has or just make it not as sensitive to every single pixel on a map.
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Wesker getting caught on seemingly every small environmental abnormality is my biggest issue with him.
You'll have to elaborate on this, because I don't see it. From what I can tell, he has way less going on in his kit than a lot of other killers.
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This seems like poor bait. Nothing to argue with, just claiming something is a way it isnt.
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it was a reason uroboros are no threat to survivors anymore, so there is 0 point to cleanse against it cause you can still looping with 4% speed penalty just fine
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Its still a threat, you will go down a lot faster because of that 4%, hes still very strong. If you say "there is no point to cleanse against him" is because you never play as survivor against a wesker. You are just trash talking only from the killer perspective, try playing an entire match with that 4% movement penalty, I can guarantee you are not going out alive from there.
A good wesker will win the same amount of matches now than before nerf.
Also the nerf was very justified, It was very easy to tunnel the unhooked survivor, this is a game where 5 players play, you are not the only person who should have a "fun" game making miserable other peoples lives.18 -
You do not understand the cruciality of speed in this game, do you?
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I'd say hes gatekeeper of A tier, either highest of B or lowest of A.
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Much like freddy after his rework or somehow we will see a change in actitude toward this argument?
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What did chucky do to you, his scamper is already useless in many cases. They could turn up his cooldown a little but I think more than 2-4 seconds would be overkill for what he's capable of, especially because he's 4,4 xD
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Yes, similar to post-rework Freddy. But there is a difference between the two:
Nerfing Wesker fixes the issue of him being a killer with way too much in his kit, nerfing Freddy doesn't fix the issue of him being boring and missing his unique identity, something that I've always pointed out.
Wesker needed nerfs. Freddy needs a rework. But both of their problematic iterations needed to go:
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Ain't no way Huntress is better than Wesker, good survivors wreck her hard.
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her 1vs1 is vastly superior to wesker. Wesker's infection means nothing when you can go to the start of the game to a chest and hold a infection spray for entire match. you won't get infected and the slowdown his spray has is minimal when it is done at the start of the match.
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The only thing Huntress is vastly superior to Wesker is getting looped around a rock multiple times lmao. She has no strong 1v1 as her anti-loop is outdated and even average survivors have an idea of what to do against her with lullaby allowing pre-running in maps full of clutter and getting spoonfed 3 audio notifications before she throws a hatchet.
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eh bloodlust kinda deletes that problem for huntress. admittedly she is prone to pre-running.
She has no strong 1v1 as her anti-loop is outdated
I don't agree. good survivors wreck wesker a lot harder then Huntress. Huntress usually has this problem. She wrecks every survivor in the chase but loses to gen speed. if i lose as huntress, it is because i didn't snowball effectively enough due to survivor not giving many opportunities to do so or I snowballed too late and the lost. I suppose that is the entire skill-cielling of huntress. Knowing how to create an early lead on top of her mechanical skill-ceiling of landing 60-80%+ hatchets.
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4% is nothing you see no difference with normal speed. Basically survivors can ignore uroboros all game and looping killer with almost unnoticable hindered effect and instadown that almost never work.
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Aside from the hinder nerf being unnecessary, or almost downright ineffectual since 4% hinder is still hell to work with for survivors, I think it's just the map clutter additions that have really neutered him unless you're crohmbs tier, and I'm certainly not that.
Personally I feel I can't play him without Unicorn Medallion anymore. It just feels better in an age of a million small rocks. The longer first dash allows you to do so much without really sacrificing much.
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He is low A. Always was, really. Unless you were hardcore tunneling with the adequate iri+green addon combo, then he was mid A.
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Who on earth was relying on his infection to make Wesker effective? Wesker is strong cause of the utility his dashes brings, both at catching survivors at loops and moving around the map. That hasn't changed.
His infection was a minor slowdown mechanic that made his power more dangerous if ignored, but was never something you should be relying on to succeed. It's not like Pig or Sadako where you've basically got nothing else so you have to play around your slowdown. If you want to tunnel a survivor out, Wesker would normally succeed long before infection came into the equation... its only if you're bad that you're consistently waiting for a survivor to be hindered to score a down.
I will admit I don't think the nerf to his hindered effect was necessary, the nerf to his infection reset off hook achieved what needed to be achieved, and it makes more sense to have it where something that is rarer is stronger... so his hindered could have been untouched and Wesker would be fine...
However a permanent 4% slowdown and being instant downable to his m2 (his best tool) is not exactly small potatoes, and as I say, you shouldn't be relying on it anyway.
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Interesting.
Because somehow we heard for months that a 3% permanent and free change in move speed was absolutely broken and game breaking.
This is some amazing mental gymnastics.
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While I agree the 4% is 'nothing', I wonder why there was a HUGE cry about the 3% from old MFT.
Math only works in this game if it benefits your narrative. This is a staple on the forums lol
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if you talk about mft it was a problem with hope that gives you 10% speed
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I take the opposite stance, haste and hindered are the most important effects in the game for either side.
DBD is often a game of inches, where every missed hit/outplay at a tile can cost upwards of an extra 10s of chase for either side, especially for regular m1 gameplay. The detail people who argue in favour of MFT forgets is that survivors don't run in a straight line, they can turn around obstacles faster than killers due to their smaller hitbox, and any change to speed massively amplifies this effect. Haste means more corners to edge out distance on the killer, hinder means fewer corners to edge out distance on the killer. This mechanic is what made DBD what it is, and is a gameplay aspect you really shouldn't mess with.
Whatever crap we give the maps, they are at their core designed for survivors to be 4.0 and killers to be 4.6. If you mess with these numbers, you up-end everything that has ever been done to balance maps over the years, (good or bad, but would assume/hope there is more good than bad). The duration of a hinder/haste effect is a massive balance factor, and an unlimited haste/hinder is very dangerous for this reason.
4% is not nothing, its effectively a 26.67% loss relatively for the survivor, which is 25% less corners they can reach. I'm not of the opinion this nerf is a problem for Wesker since the effect is permanent until cleansed, and any good Wesker should be able to capitalise on that. However since it's such a limited effect (most people cleanse it and the game is over before it even becomes a factor), undoing this nerf wouldn't have much effect either.
3% whenever injured is not nothing and is effectively 20% more corners the survivor can reach. There are killers who struggle far more than others against this change. If you're moving at +200% speed, then yeah, you ain't gonna care if a survivor is 3% faster... but any killer that moves slower than 4.6 or has slower movement/tine investment associated with their power become casualties of the 3%. Doctor became powerless on certain loops because he literally moved slower than the survivor, Huntress got embarrassed by a medium sized rock, Pig, Trapper and Sadako just get worse at every tile and people just didn't bother healing vs. Ghost Face, Legion or Myers so they basically don't have a power. The killers who are the casualties of this perk are the wrong ones, it makes the top tiers better and the lower tiers worse, which is true of a lot of perks, but MFT highlights it better than any other perk.
Skull Merchant got nuked out if existence because she more or less had a permanent 3% haste effect. It's a big deal, and shouldn't be treated as trivial. Speed effects should be applied VERY carefully in DBD.
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Well stated. Haste and hinder are strong, mess with the formula/design, and dare I say, create more problems and 'feels bad' moments than most other things.
I've long said I wish haste and gen speed/regression were erased from the game. There would be so little to complain about since balancing would be a ton easier. I'd love to know others thoughts on this, but since its not likely to actually happen, its a moot thought.
But well written. I cant argue with this lol.
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If she has to bloodlust then that already proves Wesker is stronger lol. Pretty much all the high MMR streamers and comp players rate Wesker above Huntress cause they know too well what good loopers do to a Huntress.
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Because it was super good against low tiers and borderline useless against top tiers.
Example: unerfed blight and unerfed nurse and unerfed spirit where unafected, while M1 killers got trashed
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They could also use their insane mobility whith old UW and brainlessly win chases whith stealth removed
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It's funny when people talk about tier lists like it means anything to the devs. Tier lists are player opinion. The devs are only interested in balance. As someone else said, there are 5 people in a match, not just you.
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TThey Have already stated the the 8 % hinder alone was a death sentance wich it was
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Infection progress sets to 1 on hook, and if I remember correctly it doest progress until a conspicuous action. The full infection hinder reduced from 8% to 5.
In the my opinion the first two nerfs are fine enough since tunneling was stupidly good for wesker, but the hinder nerf was unwarranted.0 -
The speed difference itself is only a problem depending on its availability. The 4% hinder is nothing because its limited to max infection. Pre nerf wesker could full infect at his discretion with some addons, thus allowing him to get an 8% hinder on his tunnel target and pretty much win by default.
Post nerf wesker requires major misplay from survivors, uroboros vial, or extreme overcomitting to get a full infection, nonetheless in chase. Since the infection resets to 0 on hook it takes a full 90s to become fully infected for a 4% hinder. It's not that 4% isnt strong, it's that it has so many specific conditions to trigger that, even if they occur, will likely be out of chase and about to cleanse.Plus this is wesker, a killer who wont mind a slight speed difference at stronger tiles anways. The hinder will really only help him at shorter filler loops where he cant use his power to realistically hit people. And while yes, its quite the advantage to strengthen his weak points, its not enough to fit the threat full infection should pose. The issue before was that infection was less of a threat and more of an inevitability, if wesker wanted you out he could full infect tunnel you with no counterplay. But now we've swung a bit too far in the other direction. Infection is no longer under weskers control but isnt a massive threat either, mostly due to the conspicuous action and hook reset nerfs that make getting max infection almost throw behavior.
Compare this to MFT, which activated from being injured. Simply 1% less for being available for at minimum half your chases with no counterplay or timer or anything. It also disproportionately affected killers of varying strength across tiers. Unlike how the 4% hinder isnt a major buff on loops wesker is already good on, the 3% was up against every killer in the roster. It made playing 2/3s of killers a pain while higher tiers, especially blight, enjoyed exhaustion free matches (until people found the dead hard synergy).0 -
Basekit Gloves and Unicorn Medallion.
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if u dont like the game then just dont play it
(the name of their account)
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A tier or not, if you're struggling to perform as Wesker that's mostly on you. He's one of the easier killers for good players to win the vast majority/all of their matches with. Killer tiers are a fun exercise, but they are irrelevant for the live game balance and only compare killers relative to one another, they don't say anything about how well you can do with the respective killers against survivors. And with the reality of the matches that one actually gets in this game, even F-tier killers like Ghostface (on outdoor) and Legion can win most of any match in the hands of a good player. Complaining about a killer potentially not being "A tier" anymore, well, if you get good enough you won't have much reason to care, and even if you're merely average you should still be performing pretty well, killing around 60% of the survivors you encounter. In the unlikely scenario that you're playing tournaments where tiers actually matter for the balancing, well, both teams play both sides, so you both equally suffer and benefit from something being weaker or stronger, balance is established inherently by the format.
The only thing infection resetting to 1% on hooks changes is that Wesker cannot tunnel as effectively anymore now. Good riddance. And the 4 instead of 8% Hindered isn't very meaningful because not only is it still a notable constant slowdown, but Wesker with his chase ability has a terribly easy time catching someone that's slowed down by any amount. His chase strength is such that it regularly shouldn't even happen that you are chasing someone that's fully infected, because you down them before that point.
What I will say is that there are some bullshit collisions on the maps that sometimes just swallow your bounds right up, which is pretty awful. I think Wesker bounds should have a certain amount of "slideyness", not to the extent that he can actually "hug tech" straight into walls, but at least such that texture collisions at certain angles don't just stop him dead in his tracks. Feels awful and robs you of perfectly deserved hits.
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well of course, i am not going by popular opinion. this is my opinion. wesker can't use his power on jagged rock wall loops either. he often needs straight type loop where he can slide over to perform his hug tech. He doesn't end up bloodlusting the loop but he is at best 115% m/s on said loop which isn't very much better. rock loops is often 1 or 2 loops at best that waste 10 extra seconds. You can save ton of time on other loops that wesker isn't efficient on but huntress is.
i am sure this is subjective opinion for whose is stronger.
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especially since the killer at base is already faster than survivors.
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Gloves sure, Unicorn Medallion nah. The original dash has its uses and a lot of users.
…but hear me out, and no one boo me for this because of Vecna/Dracula/Knight fatigue…
What if instead of having add-ons that change how bounds work, what if we could cycle between the 3 different types of bounds (normal, RPD Shoulder Walkie, and Unicorn Medallion) with the press of a button? Would that be too confusing on the survivor side without further audio/visual cues? And what audio/visual cues could be implemented if so?
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i think they should just remove negative of each add-on and just make Unicorn increase range of first dash by 20% and Shoulder Walkie by 20%. if you use both add-on, you gain 20% range on both dashes.
they put this negative because old Nurse range add-on's but i don't think he needs them. Wesker add-on list is pretty bad so buffing his add-on would also be nice.
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I think just straight up giving him more overall dash distance is a dangerous idea.
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why? it would give wesker more map mobility to pressure the map. Increase his add-on variety then just running urobus vial and egg every game.
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I think it'll just be Unicorn Medallion and Egg/Gloves every game if it's changed that way.
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ehh, i think glove is overrated. His iri vial add-on is better because it gives him strong early game, fast recovery early game and potencial allows him to spread infection early on setting survivor on backfoot, they might even run out of vaccines in mid-late game. i wasn't aiming to do this but it has happened in some games that i would remove all 12 vaccines. iri vial is better imo.
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I mean for sure iri vial is better but it requires a little more longterm bloodpoint investment to use every game. I'm more saying the generic low-rarity combo would be those few mentioned add-ons. The other passive ones aren't very noticeable and while something like Jewel Beetle is fun, it can backfire or otherwise get little value depending on the map. UM + whatever with no penalty on UM sounds a little too good. Although honestly the penalty can be an upside if you miss the followup dash, which is another reason I don't think it needs changed.
I just think being able to cycle through dash types would be neat.
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