The 10 extra seconds on hook should be reverted
as the title suggests, it should be reverted.
Why? Because it was meant to combat camping and tunneling but it really doesn’t do that much in these cases.. in fact, if anything, it encourages both sides to play in a lame way..
as of for killers, it’s almost feel like you’re being heavily punished for doing your objective and hooking survivors, therefore in most cases it feels better to just slug.. not to mention that these extra 10 seconds hurt the good killers who play fair without tunneling or slugging more than those who do.
And as for the survivor side, we can’t deny that nowadays it became a priority to finish a gen before going for the hook-rescue because you have plenty of time to save them. Which in most cases leads to survivors greeding it and getting their team to second stage and tunneled out of the game very early on.
how do you guys feel about it?
Comments
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No
31 -
very mature and funny. Did you even bother reading the whole thing?
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No
26 -
It allows the others to do generators. There's no reason for it to leave.
14 -
I'm gonna have to disagree. As a definite Killer main, I don't see the problem with those extra 10 seconds.
as of for killers, it’s almost feel like you’re being heavily punished for doing your objective and hooking survivors, therefore in most cases it feels better to just slug.. not to mention that these extra 10 seconds hurt the good killers who play fair without tunneling or slugging more than those who do
This appears to be entirely untrue. Nothing is taken away from you by hooking, as you aren't supposed to stand there and wait for them to die. The extra 10 seconds got put in to combat camping/tunneling. You are meant to hook and go hunt for the next guy.
As long as they're on hook, even if they aren't dying right away, means one less Victim to mess around with gens.
Which in most cases leads to survivors greeding it and getting their team to second stage
This happened before the extra 10 seconds, so that's no argument here. Didn't happen all the time then, and doesn't happen all the time now. Just gotta deal with the team sometimes being uncoordinated. I've had my teammates go to second stage before, because I thought another guy was going to get them, but then he didn't. It happens.
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how is that a good thing? Gen speed has always been problematic.. and these 10 extra seconds make it worse and more of a necessity to use gen regression perks
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You should use a Gen regression perk. I mean having a full end game build is risky so is a full aura build because you are allowing survivors to complete gens out of your range, therefore forcing a 3 gen situation and even if you have 3 survivors can complete that last gen. I have seen more killers lose without a gen regression perk then they probably have game frustration. From a survivor standpoint it's great because we can complete the gen and then save them, work as a team to rescue. From a killer standpoint I don't mind it because I haven't noticed a difference. But I patrol and don't wait by the hook, that's boring.
6 -
Sounds like a skill issue
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feel free to queue up with me and you can see how often my teammates will save someone asap and the 10 secs will rarely come into play
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the thing is, it’s not really only 10 seconds.. its 10 for two hook stages for 4 survivors. That’s 80 seconds.. 80 seconds of pressure removed from me if i want to play fair and hook everyone 3 times…
3 -
Its interesting that most survivors don't mind waiting an extra 10 seconds on hook where they literally can't do anything but they have an issue with being slugged where they can crawl around at least. More often than not the slug rarely bleeds out because the killer slugs everyone then goes round hooking them.
Personally what works for me is hard tunnel a survivor out asap (yes at 5 gens) that gives time to wait out the hook timer when others do gens. Then go for slugging for last 3 (situational). Last 2 always gets slugged anyway to prevent hatch escape especially with noed. I justify noed with the speed at which gens pop... Gets me 3/4k very regularly. If survivors don't spend the time going for totems throughout the match they can pay the price at the end. I'm guessing that's the lame way of playing the OP mentioned but killers tend to adapt and it's often to a play style survivors are not happy with.
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Unless the killer is camping or waiting for a tunneling opportunity, there is no real benefit to leaving a survivor on hook for prolonged periods of time and the aforementioned scenarios are precisely what the change is meant to impact.
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no
1 -
To be fair with the size of some of the maps sometimes it's just not worth the time for the killer to try get to the other side of the map in the hope to make it there before they finish a gen. If there is a guy waiting to go for the save (often there is) they are not doing anything either so the killer would essentially be holding 2 survivors from doing gens by proxy camping. Better than traveling across a large map to a gen they might not even be at and if they are there it will pop before you get there and the hooked guy gets free and can't tunnel them out. Basically in certain circumstances, it's not just a simple case of chase a guy that's not on hook to maintain pressure, that's a good way to lessen the pressure if anything if on big maps.
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Its interesting that most survivors don't mind waiting an extra 10 seconds on hook where they literally can't do anything but they have an issue with being slugged where they can crawl around at least.Well, that's because its not true.
No one likes sitting on the hook, whether that is 60 or 70 seconds. Increasing the hook timer was meant to make it less advantageous for killers to proxy camp, thus making it more likely for them to move away, thus making it more likely for a survivor to get the rescue and the hooked survivor to get back in the game.
I've never seen any survivor say, or BHVR's reasoning being, that the increase timer was designed so people could actually spend more time on the hook.
More often than not the slug rarely bleeds out because the killer slugs everyone then goes round hooking them.It's not a great defense of how slugging currently works to argue: well its so likely the killer is going to win anyway that he'll have plenty of timer to get to the survivor.
5 -
TBH as a killer main I honestly haven’t noticed a real impact from the extra 10 seconds. It can stay IMO.
8 -
So why is it so many complaints about slugging but no where near as many complaints about being stuck on the hook? It's like the hook timer is acceptable but slug timer is toxic and an outrage.
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as i said, it would not help for camping, it only promotes gen-rushing harder as survivor. it is strict buff to gen-rushing by rushing gens and leave teammates on hook. it really should be reverted and if they need nerf proxy camping, buff AC mechanic.
2 -
It has been OK so far. Not so much for my opponents.
Now if I notice the survivors are pushing gens and waiting to unhook at the last second, I just slug them all.
I had a match like that tonight. For some reasons survivors seemed more eager to raise a dying one than go for an unhook.
End result: one bleed-out, 3 hooks, 2 gens left.
I'm considering using that old Knock-out build if it keeps happening.
2 -
I mean it does objectively help with camping. I've had scenarios where the extra 10 seconds meant they didn't go to the next stage.
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If you don't camp then the hook timer is entirely inconsequential....
Keeping a survivor on the hook long enough to go to second stage shouldn't be the killers objective, outside of pressuring other survivors enough that they don't get the opportunity to go for the save.
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Lots of people complain about camping and how boring it is. It feels like all the time.
Slugging complaints get mixed together with slugging for bleed outs, slugging for the 4k, and slugging as a tactical maneuver. Each of those have their own complaints and reasons but it seems like killer mains group of them together.
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Those 10s measly do anything to any side. Why reverting something that has basically no effect on gameplay? No killer is going to slug just of 10s more or less on the hook stage as it makes no difference. No survivor waits too long and gets them in second stage unless theyre bad at this game. For both sides nothing really changed.
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Fair enough, I still think it's part of the game, the game that people choose to play. Killers role is to kill, in order to do that the survivor gets incapacitated on a hook (or ground). That's what survivors are getting into when they play the game and it seems like they don't like it when that happens. Otherwise it would be 2 hits and dead.
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Did they say it was to combat camping and tunnelling? All I remember is they felt it was necessary after increasing gen times by 10s a couple of years ago and observing the results of that
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I believe the official stance is that camping can be a valid tactic, whose counter is for survivors to slam gens and take advantage of the killers lack of pressure.
Increasing hook times gives survivors more opportunity to do this in light of increased gen times. Therefore all it does is allow survivors the agency to counter camping in the most basic way possible.
It's about as innocuous as you can get, it's not a direct anti camp mechanism like the AFC gauge or running anti camp perks like Reassurance.
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I have to say, I still don't understand how those extra ten seconds could possibly be seen as a punishment for the killer unless they're just hanging around the hook waiting for second stage. If you're out chasing someone else already, doesn't that just give you more time to get your next down, because you know only two survivors are on generators?
It's an innocuous change. It does help against camping, by strengthening its counterplay, but it doesn't really have much of an impact otherwise. Unless you're the solo queue teammate left to dangle for an extra ten seconds, which is kinda dull, but eh. Being on hook is part of the game, not too bad.
2 -
any change, innocuous or not, that is seen as a survivor buff is basically bad on this forum and needs to be reverted. It's a health change that impacts killers the same way that the anti-face camp change does - if you play that way then yes you'll notice it, if you don't, well then you won't…
but we have the 'oh it's 10 secs per survivor, per hook stage, that's 80 seconds!' crowd that exclusively views everything from the lenses of 'well, in a perfect world……'
2 -
Before, survivors just gen rushed until the very last second to go for the rescue.
Now why bother even going to rescue the person at all? 10 extra seconds to do gens, so they fly even faster.
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From a survivor perspective: the game vacillates between 'oh my god, this is the most exciting game ever' to 'wow, this is crazy boring and dumb'. Having some boring elements is inevitable (its inevitable in any game), the question is to what degree can those elements be reduced without sacrificing the overall excitement of the game.
To use FPSs as an example. Over the last few decades companies have tried lots of different respawn timers, anywhere from 'instant' to 'never'. Too quick and the death doesn't feel meaningful, too long and people get bored and quit. Players need some sort of penalty to make the death meaningful and give them a moment to reset, but too long and they get bored quickly.
With DbD, getting downed and hooked for thirtyish seconds, no problem for most people. They're still thinking about the last chase, scanning the map, getting prepared to go back into the game. But once that time is past people quickly become upset. A minute feels too long for many people, and two minutes you're wondering why you aren't just playing something else (a similar example is survivors refusing to leave and how annoying that feels).
There's lots of variables and every player is different, but that's generally what happens. Everyone has an amount of time they are cool with being out of the action, but once they are past that point the game loses its objective of being fun.
They are kind of tied together. Because the survivors now have more time before the survivor is sacrificed, camping is less advantageous.
They definitely mentioned camping, from the Developer update:
For the most part this was a positive change, though it had the side effect of making camping more effective: Focusing on repairs was the best way the other Survivors could counter camping, but with repairs taking longer, the Survivors aren’t able to get as much done before the hooked Survivor is sacrificed.
To combat this, we are increasing the duration of each hook phase to 70 seconds.2 -
I'm not crazy about the timer increase, but since BHVR wants to keep buffing killer powers and nerfing maps this is their thing to give survivors vs killers who wish to play around the hook more. I do wish this was reverted and things were done differently though.
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