Trapper needs buffs
Trapper is the weakest killer in the entire game. He is incredibly slow, his power can be easily avoided or disabled, and he's quite map and add-on dependant. In this discussion, I'll go through his issues and try to fix them.
If anyone has some thoughts, please let me know.
1) His lengthy set-up:
• The worst part of Trapper is his setup, which requres you to go out of your way to collect and set every single trap.
• The first thing I'd change is his trap count. During 2v8, he could hold 4 traps at the same time and it was great, so, why not put that into the base game? The amount of traps in the enviroment would not change, though. There would still be 8, giving you 12 traps in total.
• Another part of his kit that's annoying is collecting traps, which are often on the opposite side of the map. My idea is that he could be able to highlight up to 4 traps, which he could then destroy remotely. After that, he could simply pick them up from a locker, just like Huntress does.
• An idea from the comments which I liked is that traps could either already spawn in loops, or be stored in lockers for Trapper to pick up from the start of the trial.
2) The lethality of his traps:
• One of the most frustrating things about Trapper, is when a survivor steps into a random trap far away, and escapes with no consequenses before you even get close. It's even worse if they're injured, since then the trap does even less to them.
• First change I'd do is make it so survivors which get out of a trap (by themselfs or with help) get Deep Wounded, as well as being revealed with Killer Instinct for a few seconds after escaping.
• Other than that, thank to the comments, I decided to keep the Haste which triggers after setting a trap, but now it also triggers while someone is caught in a trap.
3) Help against survivors screwing you over:
• First, make the traps hitbox slightly bigger. It's painful to watch a survivor use your own trap against you because the hitbox is too small.
• Secondly (this is more of a "would be nice" thing than "absolutely necessary") give disarming a traps a minigame of some sort.
4) Visibility:
• We need darker maps with more fog and more grass. I don't think I have to explain this one. Play one round on Haddonfield or Eyrie and you'll see what I mean.
• Also, Reagents are pretty underwhelming right now, so that could also be changed.
• I know this is a more general issue than a Trapper issue, but it's one that hurts Trapper greatly.
5) Multiple useless or bad add-ons:
Oily Coil (Very Rare):
• Instead, it could increase the KI duration by a large amount.
Padded Jaws - Hand-drawn Blueprint (Rare):
• This is one of the worst meme add-ons I've seen in my life. It's worse than nothing.
• Instead of that thing, it could make traps already spawn armed.
• The rarity would also be increased to Rare.
Rusty Jaws (Rare):
• Now it makes survivors Broken for 60 seconds instead of Mangled.
Lenghtened Jaws (Uncommon):
• Now it affects survivors with -7% Hindered for 10 seconds.
Coffee Grounds (Uncommon):
• Increases the Haste Trapper gets when somebody is caught in a trap or after setting a trap by 5%
Tar Bottle - Painting Set (Uncommon):
• Change it, so instead of darkening traps (which is useless since there are so many bright maps), it changes their color and texture based on the enviroment around them. Evan is an amateur artist, so he'd be capable of this. Lore accurate and useful. The rarity could also be decreased.
Serrated Jaws (Common):
• Add Mangled to this add-on.
• Changed rarity from Uncommon to Common.
Comments
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Freddy is worse imo. He’s genuinely a M1 killer with garbage and useless anti loop. He’s living in the past right now.
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1 Being able to carry up to 4 and getting them back from afar would be awesome.
2 I’m not a fan of giving his traps deep wounds basekit. I don’t think he needs that and it would be pretty annoying. Getting revealed by killer instinct would be fine. Don’t know about the haste.
3 I wouldn’t make trap hit boxes bigger, can’t give you a reason for that, but I wouldn’t. Please no mini game for disarming his traps. I find skill checks and the skull merchant thing pretty annoying.
Agree with everything said in 4.
A buff I would suggest is that traps spawn armed at window and pallet locations. This could reduce set up time since there is already something set up and you could get some value from the taps earlier.0 -
i feel like trapper does good on average because soloq doesn't play around his ability. it is similar to hag. vs 4 man swf that disables 24/7 and knows the trapping killer weakness being teamwork, he's a bad killer but on average. he's decently strong vs soloq.
he is like average at base-kit if survivor don't counter him. if they do buff trapper, they should only buff him to make him stronger vs swf by reducing his counter-play.
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I mean... any killer can preform well against solo Q, as most of the players barely know what to do. Especially killers with side objectives of any kind.
The changes I offered mostly focus on cutting down his setup time, making the traps harder to spot and a bit more dangerous.
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Thanks for the feedback!
I mostly gave the Deep Wounds to traps because they don't do much if a person is already injured. It could be a wee bit much with everything else, but idk for sure.
The sole reason for why I want the trap disarm to have a minigame is because of trap buffering (one person starts to disarm the trap which allows survivors to walk over it).
And about your suggested buff, it's a nice idea.
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All the survivors are specialists in disarming traps, but this doesn't seem realistic.
I think you need to make a skill check to disarm the trap, and if you fail it you get one level of injury.0 -
Hi @SoGo,
I think your ideas are awesome and I think its important that our community has people like you who has some decent ideas, but not balance breaking ones. I would like to comment some parts of your ideas in the following:
The worst part of Trapper is his setup, which requres you to go out of your way to collect and set every single trap.
• The first thing I'd change is his
trap count. During 2v8,
he could hold 4 traps at the same timeand it was great, so, why not put that into the base game? The amount of traps in the enviroment would not change, though. There would still be 8, giving you
12 traps in total.
• Another part of his kit that's annoying is collecting traps, which are often on the opposite side of the map.
My idea is that he could be able to highlight up to 4 traps, which he could then destroy remotely. After that, he could simply pick them up from a locker, just like Huntress does.
Honestly, that are really valid statements and I couldnt agree more. I would really like to play him a lot more but… well he is just frustrating to play with. What I thought after reading your points was a combination of your ideas.
I agree that the trapper should be able to hold at least 4 traps. I also agree, that the traps should be removeable remotely. I think it would a general thing to get the traps from the lockers. So also at the beginning. So that there arent any traps in the beginning, you start with 4 and get more from lockers. So like that:
- Killer starts with 4 traps (your idea)
- Killer can remove traps remotely and then they are in lockers (your idea)
- At the beginning, there are not traps on the map (my additional idea) that way, the surv doesnt know immediatly that a trapper is there
- Killer gets traps from locker (your idea)
One of the most frustrating things about Trapper, is when a survivor steps into a random trap far away, and escapes with no consequenses before you even get close. It's even worse if they're injured, since then the trap does even less to them.
• First change I'd do is make it so
survivors which get out of a trap(by themselfs or with help)
get Deep Wounded, as well as being revealed with Killer Instinct for a few seconds after escaping.• Next, the speed boost Trapper gets after setting a trap barely does anything. It would be much more useful if it
triggered while someone is caught in a trap, and lingered for a bit after.
Your idea with deep wound and killer instinct is awesome. Its by anyway not broken, but a nice benefit compared to now.
About the speedboost Im not sure. I would let it be like that, but maybe increase the time of your haste, so that you have more value and dont lose to much time for placing traps. BUT its important to balance it with care. It could be broken if you do it the wrong way I think. To be more precise:
General info of trapper:
- needs 2.5 seconds to place a trap (without addons)
- get 5% haste for 5 seconds after setting a trap (yellow addon)
- trapper has 4.6m/s speed
Now a bit of math:
If trapper sets a trap he will lose 2.5 seconds of moving which is:
2.5*4.6 = 11.5m at most.
The addon gives 5 seconds a haste of 5% after setting a trap. That would be:
additional haste bonus: 4.6*0.05 = 0.23m/s so:
1.15m at max what distance you could get additionally. BUT we lose some distance for setting:
1.15 - 11.5 = 10.35m
So, thouth we have that addon, during chase, the trapper loses a lot of distance. With the addon its better than nothing (right?), but it shows how less it will help, especially if you consider that the surv will just leave the loop and you got kinda nothing.
A surv has a speed of 4m/s. So if we consider the previous math it would mean the following after setting a trap during chase, what the addon is for:
without addon:
- 4m (surv) - 4.6m (trapper) = 0.6m/s → gets trapper closer
- 4m*2.5 = 10m → distance created during setting trap
- 10m/0.6m = 16.67 seconds → trapper will need that time just to get to the same distance than before!
with addon:
- 4m (surv) - 5.75m (trapper) = 1.57m/s → gets trapper closer
- 4m*2.5 = 10m → distance created during setting trap
- 10m/1.57m = 6.37 seconds → trapper will need that time just to get to the same distance than before! → but duration is only 5 seconds! sooooo:
- 1.57m * 5= 7.85m
- 10m-7.75m= 2.25m
- 2.25m/0.6m = 3.75s
- complete time necessary to catchup: 3.75s+5s = 8.75 seconds
Based on these calculations, the addon helps significantly with his current power. We all now how precious these seconds are!
It also shows, that there isnt much room to make sure that its not broken by increasing the time. If we would e. g. get a negative value in the way like -2 seconds to get to the distance before setting, then its broken, but we could get closer to zero by increasing the time just a bit:
- Duration 6 seconds: 1.57m*6 = 9.42m
- Duration 6.5 seconds: 1.57m*6.5=10.21m
- Duration 7 seconds: 1.57m*7= 11m
So, 7 seconds would be to long, cause you could set a trap and would even be closer to your target than without setting it, even if we would consider the time to pick up a trap its way to abuseable. I think 6.5 seconds could be good, BUT we also have to make sure to consider addons which decrease the time by setting a trap. There is a brown one which gives 30% for setting a trap. That would be 0.75 seconds faster!
If we let the brown addon as it is, the duration of haste shouldnt be more than 6 seconds to prevent balance breaking during chase. If the addon is removed, it could be increased to 6.5 seconds. I think that would be fine.
You suggested, that the haste should come if someone is caught, but that wouldnt benefit the trapper most of the time, so I disagree in that matter. You should design addons were you get benefits more reliable.
About the duration of being caugt… it think it would be good that the surv have to be caught for at least the duration it would take to interact with the trapstations of the pig. Anything else will never help the trapper, due of his missing map pressure.
First,
make the traps hitbox bigger. It's painful to watch a survivor use your own trap against you because the hitbox is too small.
I think that would be difficult to balance, cause of some indoor maps. I would prefer that the trapper couldnt be caught by default… I think.
We need darker maps with more fog and more grass. I don't think I have to explain this one. Play one round on Haddonfield or Eyrie and you'll see what I mean.
I also dont think that it would help pretty much. Be aware that you also would have problems to notice survivors!
What I would suggest, that the traps adapt the colour based on the environment. So without addons, its hard to see, but you can still notice it. With an addon it should be very, very hard to notice, but the addon should have a high rarity.
I hope I didnt went to far here xD
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I like it.
The one thing I always bear in mind with Trapper though, is while he is weak generally speaking, he is the undisputed king of basement, and is VERY hard to escape even for the most organised of teams… that identity shouldn't change, but it's always in the back of my mind to be careful of when thinking of any buffs. That in mind:
- Picking traps out of a locker is a feature I have wanted for ages. I always saw it as just despawn the furthest unopened trap from Trapper as he grabs it out of a locker. I'd give it a 45 second cooldown, so that it's not easy to use for spamming at basement, but otherwise would be great. Trappers sack obviously has to disable this ability though.
I also love Trapper's Bag (3 trap carry limit), it's my favourite add-on and would love it basekit. It allows you to set up traps effectively where you want, and still keep one on hand, while also giving you room to pick up traps as you go. I would love this add-on basekit.
. - Deep wounded is elegant. I suggested taking the 6 escape attempts down to 3 with the time to attempt an escape and the escape chance doubled, but this is just as good.
. - There is a balance with being able to reach the trap to disarm it vs. the hitbox, but yes this is annoying. Maybe a slightly increased hitbox when running might be good, so that walking can be used effectively to disarm?
In regards to preventing follow behind disarming, I liked the idea of Trapper spending an extra 1.5s or so when setting a trap to instead "rig" a trap. A rigged trap works like a bloody coil trap, and will wound a survivor trying to disarm it. Thinking about basement again, only 1 rigged trap can be placed within range of another rigged trap.
. - TBH with all the other changes in place, I think this is fine. There are lots of tricky little spots you can use on Trapper to exploit where survivors will be looking when looping, and set traps up in some really illogical places to catch survivors in such maps, and with these other changes in place, doing this kind of play would be much easier, so i think it's fine not to worry so much about this.
But yeah, pretty much all changes I'm adjacent or inline with. 🤘
1 - Picking traps out of a locker is a feature I have wanted for ages. I always saw it as just despawn the furthest unopened trap from Trapper as he grabs it out of a locker. I'd give it a 45 second cooldown, so that it's not easy to use for spamming at basement, but otherwise would be great. Trappers sack obviously has to disable this ability though.
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Thank you, @Jeido_Tengoku for your feedback!
The idea of all traps already being in lockers at the start is quite good. The way they are now (laying around randomly) is not really helpful at all. I'd like to see either your idea, or the one suggested by @Langweilg (traps spawning already in loops where they actually can do something) in game.
As for the bigger trap hitbox, I don't mean some dramatic changes. Just making it a bit bigger would help a lot.
You made a good point about the Haste. I don't run Coffee Grounds since the effect seemed so meh to me, but you might be onto something.
The visibility (lack of fog) is mostly an issue because survivors can see you setting up from afar.
What I would suggest, that the traps adapt the colour based on the environment. So without addons, its hard to see, but you can still notice it. With an addon it should be very, very hard to notice, but the addon should have a high rarity.
Funnily enough, I created an add-on with this exact effect, which could replace Tar Bottle.
Post edited by SoGo on0 -
Thanks for the response!
Both of your ideas - bigger trap hitbox while runnning and trap rigging - sound really nice! I like them.
One thing I realized while reading the comments, is that, in theory, with the remote trap destroy function, you could simply destroy the trap the survivor is trying to use against you, solving both trap buffering and survivors using gaps to go around the trap while the Trapper can't.
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He controls his traps...
With mind bullets! That's telekinesis, Kyle!
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Trapper is impossible to buff
Trapper is one of the killers that swf has an unfair advantage against him, basically if just one survivors sees him putting a trap, the entire team will know about that trap, now, comparing to solo, there is no much to say, any buffs that he can get will not help anyone, will just increase the gasp between solo and swf
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I updated the discussion a bit, adding few add-on changes into the rework, as well as changing some parts of the rework a bit.
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I kinda disagree with that.
Now, yes, Trapper is significantly weaker against SWF (what killer isn't, though..).
But he is a joke even against solo players who know how to play. There is a good reason why Corrupt is almost a must run perk on him.
The points that I focused on (visibility, faster set-up and mechanics which make screwing him over harder) would, imo, help even against SWF.
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Another part of his kit that's annoying is collecting traps, which are often on the opposite side of the map.
My idea is that he could be able to highlight up to 4 traps, which he could then destroy remotely. After that, he could simply pick them up from a locker, just like Huntress does.
Oooooh I really like that 🙌
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Thanks!
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