When are we cracking down on the give up culture in this game?
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Ratcheting up punishments isn't guaranteed to increase preferred outcomes. Punishment beyond a certain point doesn't tend to yield positive results.
If you actually want real change, you need identify why players are so quick to give up. It's generally solo players who want out after getting downed once. It's not really an issue with SWF players. So what are solo players experiencing that makes them so prone to giving up instantly? If BHVR can identify those things and find suitable remedies, then the problem has the potential to get a lot better.
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not really an issue with SWF players
1v4
So what are solo players experiencing that makes them so prone to giving up instantly?
1v1v1v1v1
If BHVR can identify those things and find suitable remedies
By BHVR's own design: "Survive Together… Or Not - Survivors can either cooperate with the others or be selfish."
The problem is BHVR holds "Player Agency" in high importance. There's no way to make DbD fun for everyone when it's designed to allow both playstyles.
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I feel like if BHVR can address some of the biggest complaints that players collectively have, such as gen speeds, hard tunneling, bad matchmaking, excessive slugging or excessive hiding, then players will be less likely to give up when negative situations occur.
Killers that hard tunnel a survivor have often been gen rushed in the previous match. Survivors that DC have often been hard tunneled in their last match and just give up.
I like the system change to 2v8, where gen speeds will rubberband depending on how the match is going. That alone will make matches more bearable for many players. I'd love to see more changes like this, that don't impact a balanced match, but help sand the edges off of a bad one.
I think BHVR can find ways to deal with the worst situations, whilst keeping player agency intact. The gen speed mechanic is a really good start.
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LMAO the number of posts that try to say the give up pandemic is because of a killer-sided game.
The vast majority of the time, the solo Q mate gives up on first hook because they lasted 10 secs in chase, even against a C/B tier killer. Or they get grabbed from a locker trying to rat around.
I only agree with the fact that we don't need more S tier killers like Chucky or Billy recently, and maps like Forgotten Ruin, Lampkin and Sanctum of wrath are pretty hard to survive.
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this is it right here. I’ve been in plenty of solo queue matches, where you have somebody available to unhook you, but they choose to hide in a corner. If you’re letting me go to second stage on my first hook, I’m not doing the skill checks. That’s not me ruining the game. That’s the player who is available: not being chased not doing a generator and just deciding that if they could even faintly hear the killer’s terror radius they’re not coming to unhook. You had 70 seconds to get me if you did not do so it’s your fault that I’m out and onto a game with better teammates.
Then there are the ones who run bond for the sole purpose of running the killer to someone else anytime they are going to be chased. Doesn’t matter if that person is being healed doesn’t matter if they’re close to finishing the generator., these people are going to run the killer directly to them to save their own ass.
Worse than that, i’ve had these people run the killer over to a locker that I just entered to activate one of my PERKS and point at the locker. You do that to me I’m leaving the game via hook. Once again, you’ve already shown me you’re not a team player, so why should I be?
So yeah, there are very many valid reasons to “go next” and if that’s going to be punished, but the behavior that is causing it is not being punished then we have a problem.
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Hard to say. It's possible those changes will help.
Whatever changes they make, I think BHVR needs to convince solo survivors to care about their random teammates again. Because I've seen a lot of people reach this point of, "My teammates don't care about me, so I no longer care about my teammates." That means when a singular person does well they leave their teammates to die, and when a singular person finds themself on the hook they have no incentive to hold out to help their teammates. It used to be someone being camped or tunneled would keep the killer busy which would help their teammates escape. Many solo survivors no longer feel that camaraderie. That's the mindset that best explains survivors giving up when a team victory is imminent: history has taught them "team" won't apply to them, so they might as well leave sooner rather than later. The game mostly rewards their teammates, not them, if they're a team player after that point.
It'll probably be a lot easier to fix this issue if it is a problem with balancing rather than the gradual cumulative destruction of players' mindsets, so hopefully this isn't deeply entrenched and some numbers tweaks and come-back mechanics can help the issue. It could certainly help if people believe there's a possibility of bouncing back when things look bleak. But it may be more difficult to convince survivors that bouncing back includes them and doesn't only apply to their teammates, or to get them to once again care about their teammates.
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If you cant get a gen done by the time 4 hooks happened or outright lost a player the game is probably done for. Its very easy to snowball the game so fast for the killer especially if its SOLO Q. Also 2 players and any more than 1 gen also probably a lost game for the players since its too much effort and time to get those gens done.
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Like I said, whether or not the game is actually good at what it is trying to do (be a scary horror movie analog, which 90% of the time it isn't) isn't relevant. We're eight years into this thing, and what the devs want for it is pretty clear at this point. DbD is what it is, and it's not trying to be anything else.
And as generally ineffective as it is at being scary, I think trying to really balance it would make it much, much worse. I mean I'm not sure how anyone can really look at DBD and think such a thing is even possible, even if the devs were inclined to try. The imbalance is baked into the very DNA of the game, on every level. There's not much like it, and quite frankly the minute it tries to be what others are, it'll die (if for no other reason that they'll be just another game, but in a sea of better developers).
And I think most people are okay with that. I like a nice balanced test of skill as much as anybody, but I play other games for that. DBD ain't it. People can want with all their heart for DBD to be a true comp game, but it isn't. It can't be.
Like it or not, the 60/40 imbalance is a design feature, not a bug, and I would advise anyone holding their breath waiting for that to change to let it go.
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This is, at this point, a niche situation that isn't happening most of the time when people give up. The vast majority of my games (because I can only talk about my experience) it usually just comes off as someone is bitter that they got caught. There could be any number of gens left, heck the gates could be powered (just not open), and it will still happen. People seem to decide if it's a "pointless match" based on if they would get the equivalent of Iridescent Unbroken, which is to never get downed, which is not the point of the game.
You're not supposed to be uncatchable as survivor. I don't mean "uncatchable" as in you guarantee die, I just mean the killer has the capabilities, even if it takes a while, to catch you at some given point of the match and hook you at least once. Maybe that's the one and only time they catch you, but they could and did. I have no idea if I explained that well, but hopefully you get the point I'm trying to make.
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Well then people are going to keep dcing or killing themselves on hook. Hope you are not one of those who whines about that. And it is not more balanced than it has ever been, stop lying please.
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Its not just that its assymetrical. Its that its assymetrical with one side having an insane advantage.
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1v4 … your advantage is the 4. That’s why the one is stronger and it always should be that way. Everyone who complains wants to be able to defeat the one player by themselves and that is a ridiculous ask. You’re asking the game to be balanced around the fact that you ended up with bad teammates and again that is a ridiculous ask.
What is more actually the problem is there are a whole lot of people on here that just think they are a lot better at the game than they actually are and because they perform poorly they think that the game is at fault and not their own self. I hate to break it to you, but just because you think you should be looping killers like the streamers that you watch on YouTube doesn’t mean that you will. And no, the game does not have to be changed in order to make that be the case for you.2 -
60% to 40% . 33% advatage. Thats all you need to know and the only argument that matters. Killers not only want to play in easy mode they want to pretend it isnt.
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Go play a different video game. Seriously just go play a different game. You’re trying to argue that in a game where one player is going against four players that each individual from the side with four players should be as strong as the side with one player and you somehow think that would be fair? Yeah, you definitely don’t need to be playing this game.
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No thats not what im saying. Im saying that even after you take into account the 4 vs. 1 thing one side still has an insane advantage. And I'll play a different game when I feel like it thank you.
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They are supposed to have an advantage because they have to deal with four players. It’s not one versus one. You can’t balance a game to be in favor of the four because sometimes you get trash teammates. There is nothing that can be done that is going to help that situation. The only thing that you as an individual can do is play with friends or find people who you play with that are decent enough at the game and add them to your friends list so that you can play with people that you can depend on.
And if you don’t think that the player who is ALONE should have an advantage over a team of four, then you are part of the problem. Having four players is your advantage if you are playing solo and getting stuck with three garbage players like I said, start finding friends who are better at the game and you’ll see how much of a difference it makes.
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Im not going to keep arguing because you are saying that I am saying something that I am not actually saying. I just hope you have fun playing easy mode.
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you’re another one who makes me laugh. The reset just happened. I got maximum blood points for survivor, I got 20,000 blood points for killer that shows you how much I played each role. Granted, there are months where I max out on both roles, but I play Survivor a far greater deal than I play killer and I don’t seem to have these detrimental problems that some of you all talk about.
do I go on losing streaks? Absolutely. Mostly on solo queue, but I also understand that that’s going to be the case because the quality of my teammates is just up in the air. Sometimes I will get insanely cracked teammates, and other times I will get useless potatoes. Neither one of those instances means that the killer needs to be nerfed into the ground. The game does not need to be balanced around making you feel better and making you think that you are some video game god. There are a lot of people on this forum that just need to accept that they are not as good at video games as they think they are.
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Okay you can get on your soapbox and write an essay about why you think its okay for one side to be overpowered, but then dont complain when players choose not to stay in unwinnable games.
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👍 so then I guess you should not be playing since according to you every game is unwinnable. Why are you here again?
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yeah, because lasting 20s in chase against an M1 killer, repairing the very first gens you bump to at the start of the match and lacking most important macro skills in this game definitely means balance catters to one side.
Can we stop with this fortnite mentality where we blame everyone else for being bad players ourselves?
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They're not. It's a community entitlement issue (players feel entitled to a free win and DC anything short of that), and one BHVR basically can't fix. It's like trying to fix teabagging - toxicity always finds a way.
The only way to fix it is for the burnouts doing it to take a break from the game. Cote was ultimately right - go play Civilisation, just for a refreshing change.
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I think (hope) you understand what I am actually saying. Im not saying dbd as a whole is unwinmable for survivors, i am saying it is often easy to tell that a specific match is unwinnable.
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I can understand that. But more times than not it has to do with your own team and not the killer. When the game is very noticeably unwinnable, it’s usually because someone gives up on first hook or you have two teammates, who are deciding to go hide in corners and not do generators or even participate.
Yes,, there are definitely times when the match is unwinnable because of the killer but I don’t find that to be the case as often as it being the case because of my own teammates.
And this is why I say the game does not need to change the killer to balance it around me as an individual. And unfortunately, there’s not much you can do about crappy players. If they are not going to participate, there’s nothing you can do to make them. You cannot balance mechanics based on other people’s lack of participation.
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plain and simple. This is supposed to be a team versus a single player. The problem lies in the fact that you cannot force players to be a team if they don’t want to be. No amount of changes will fix that if people want to be selfish or if they want to be a troll they are going to be that.
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between this and the unpunished trolls, I think I'm done with this game. gonna ask steam support to remove it off my account.
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If it is so much easier to be good at one role than the other though that shows there is something wrong with the game. And from oldtimers in the forum I read that back when there was no d/c penalty players still didnt give up as often. Hmmmm... wonder why. I mean Im not discounting the possibiity that its actually the mmr thats the problem, but if thats the case then Bhvr. needs to fix it already.
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Yep, people want to punish the behaviour without highlighting the cause. I rarely give up on hook but if I do its because I'm trying while the rest of the team aren't and I know nothing is going to happen so I just want to go next.
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Unfortunately, DC penalties will just encourage afk or unhook suicide, and penalizing someone for dying too early is just making tunneling someone out an even more toxic play style by giving low skill survivors a penalty, onto of minimal playtime because they're the 'weakest link'
Discouraging new or low skill players from playing is a good strategy to kill a game.
Realistically, I feel they need a separate queue for archives. Because you'll never get 5 people in a match all dedicated to play a good march if a third of your player base (estimated) is hunting some obscure goal that may not be related, or even negative, to their sides goals.
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So why are SoloQ players giving up so easily?
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Probably because their teammates don't bother saving them when they're on hook. And hanging on a hook not being able to do anything at all is extremely boring
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Haven’t you previously criticized MMR as dysfunctional and not performing its job (and we all know it has issues so you aren’t wrong here)? How then can you suggest it act as a factor in balancing matches? In either case the kill er winrate is stated to be 60% without matches that have at least one DC or a hatch escape but the solo queue escape rate is 38% and this also doesn’t factor in matches where a DC occurs or a survivor gets hatch. With how often we see DCs we know for sure the killer winrate and survivor escape rates are higher and lower, respectively, than those figures. Given this fact, 8/10 is not an unreasonable figure.
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Being in a SWF gives you some consistency in your matches. You can avoid matchmaking issues. This is probably the biggest issue for solo players, as one weak teammate can doom the entire match. You don't have to deal with teammates griefing you whilst you are in a SWF. You can limit the effects of snowballing by the killer, by coordinating with your teammates. If you are getting tunneled, a SWF can help keep you alive. That's much harder to do in solo.
Playing in solo queue can be very frustrating at times. Not only because you are much more vulnerable to a killer player that wants to isolate and eliminate you, but because you are forced to rely on the matchmaking working, and the other survivors pulling their weight. It makes sense that most experienced players tend to only play with their friends. I think that's why solo matchmaking fails so often, good players likely don't want anything to do with solo queue.
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Pretty much I have seen Killer AFK himself for one min but because one survivor was outright useless the entire game the killer managed to 4K still because you need a full team of working players.
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