Feedback and Suggestions
Feedback and Suggestions
Slugging/Tunneling/Camping limitation system concept
Slugging
- Fully self-recovered survivors (95%) can now pick themselves up while directly underneath an Empty Hook.
- They become Broken until they’re next put into the dying state, and suffer Deep Wounds.
- Edit: “Seek Help” once at 95% will now display “Seek Help (Survivor Icon), or risk a bargain (image of a dying state survivor under Hook)”
- Ideally, were the Killer to pickup the survivor in such a position, they would be able to Hook the survivor before the window for flash stuns is available.
This is to provide a last resort self-pickup, such as in the event of a 4-man slug out, or bad/toxic teammates, to better differentiate the dying and the Hooked state, and incentivize Hooks.
Hooked Survivors
- This can be performed on both the first and second stage of sacrifice.
- As their Hook stage progresses, they see the Auras of other hooks slowly appear to them.
- The rate that hooks are revealed, and the distance away from the current hook, are the largest balancing points of this concept.
- While holding the active ability button on Hook, they can focus on another Empty Hook, to link to it (3s hold).
- The aura of this Linked Hook is shown to other survivors.
- The Aura of the Hooked survivor changes while they are linked to another Hook.
- When Unhooked, the Hooked Survivor will spawn under the Linked Hook.
- Performing a self-unhook attempt (or failing a sacrifice skillcheck) while having a Linked Hook, will teleport the survivor onto that Linked Hook, suffering sacrifice acceleration as normal. (This overrides any self-unhook perk like Deliverance or Wicked, and overrides the 4%)
- A Linked Hook can be cleared by tapping the active ability button while Hooked.
- This is disabled in the End-game Collapse.
- Ideally, base-kit Endurance and the existing anti-camp mechanics would be removed from the game.
This gives the Hooked survivor agency, if they feel they are being tunneled, a method of repositioning themselves on the map if unhooked. (As such, being found afterward becomes their own fault).
This gives the Hooked survivor agency, if they see themselves being proxy-camped, or face-camped, to move themselves to another Hook to bypass it, though dependent on the time it takes for a distant Hooks aura to be revealed.
This gives the Hooked survivor a gameplay element to interact with and deliberate upon.
This can condition newer Survivors to not prioritize unhooking a survivor quite so immediately.
Killers can no longer rely on the Hooked survivor being in one place.
Ideally this would also come with buffs for getting multiple Hooks as Killer/Killer buffs.
Comments
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Eh, not a huge fan of Perk solutions for a lack of basic functionality.
Would be like removing the Killers ability to kick a generator to regress it base-kit because:
“You can use pop, or just, you know, git gud and apply pressure”
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Well I suppose this more relevant now.
Also adding the Carrot concept for Killer:
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Huh, so the downvote button has been reintroduced, well, downvote if this is a bad idea? I really don't get the lack of frankly… any response at all.
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This option doesn't add anything of value and merely removes potential interactions in the community. People just press the "no" button and move on instead of elaborating.
Not only that, but the very first day that this feature came back, you could see some people going "I'll downvote every comments and it'll be funny" (or something along those lines) in some threads. By default, people like that make any kind of data from this option unreliable.
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No, in this case people are just thumbs down because this suggestion "just disable any macro game for survivors and at the same time punish killers"
With the same outcome, I could create a thread: “let’s make generators of 900 seconds each and give killers insta kill” people will not waste time on this, they will simply give a negative rating and move on
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It's part of the game and it's not going anywhere. No point destroying the game to prevent something that's counterable. Is it awful and annoying to be tunneled/camped/slugged? sure. Games last 10 minutes. Just lose and move on to the next one.
Also the whole slugging thing isnt necessary to fully change. I think the only thing they can do is a surrender option if everyone is downed for a certain period of time.Slugging is a part of the game and there builds around it and ways to counter it. Sure when youve got a nurse that can slug everyone in 2 minutes and slugs that can be frustrating (im bias because i like running a slug nurse from time to time) but realistically just getting better and learning to mind game goes wonders.
Ive faced plenty of slugging killers and have had consistent 2+ make it out. Ive also ran slug build and have gotten handed to me by good survivors. It's a skill based game
I do think something needs to be done about hiding. Ive had 2 games in the past week where a survivor was running clairvoyance and a key and just sit in a corner item swapping to prevent crows until everyone died, and that was when i was playing survivor.
"All losses in this world are due to a lack of ability. If you want to curse someone, curse your own weakness"
I Swear newer/younger players are spoiled now. You think camping/tunneling is bad now? You must not have played back when there was face camping, No off hook protection base kit. Insidious basement camping leather face. basement camping trapper, Noed not being a totem. All the crazy horrific stuff from back then. Even for killers. Old DS, Instablinds, Etc. People complaining now wouldnt have lasted in the early days of dbd.
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The slugging solution has some merit, and it's not abusable like the old basekit UB solution, so really, it could work.
The other one, no. I think that with some improvements to the already existing AFC mechanic (showing it on the HUD, maybe speeding it up a bit) would be enough to work without an outrage from the other side. Some base anti-camping perks could be also introduced (Slippery Meat does very little, and the effect could be easily carried over to Up The Ante if needed).
Tunneling already has some basekit counters AND multiple strong perks that deny it, so…
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Expecting every survivor in the game to have a good understanding of macro gameplay in order to counter strategies that openly present themselves as the path of least resistance on all levels just serves to make the casual survivor gameplay experience kinda trash.
Also that macro gameplay is just spread and sit on a generator. That's boring.
People complain about balancing competitively, and your take serves just to reinforce competitive gameplay, boring gameplay at that.
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I'm a Killer main. Played hyper-tunnel-proxy Bubba (And wow I really got into the cheater queues right quick after several matches of that) and slugout Ghostface with Knockout (to see if I could, and I did). Most recently though I've just been playing Drac and hitting 8 Hooks and then waiting for them to finish Gens to kill the Obsession with Rancor during the EGC. Keeps my matches nice and casual through MMR manipulation (though sometimes I do need to kill everyone for a couple matches now and then when it drops too low). And especially in these matches, I can slug everyone out if I really wanted to since I'm punching below my weight.
Time management is an important facet of Killer gameplay.
Slugging bypasses a lot of ingrained time-management of "other parts of the game". It needs tweaking, like allowing Survivors to pick themselves up (not in a time-efficient method mind you, just to make sure the Killer can't be too time-efficient with too many long slugs)
"All losses in this world are due to a lack of ability. If you want to curse someone, curse your own weakness"
We have a Terms of Service for a reason. I could try to hack the game or use cheats as a survivor to give myself the ability to pick myself up, but that isn't in accordance to the rules. And rules can be fair or unfair, well thought out or not, and changed. Get off your pontificating blinded high horse. Unless you're actually advocating to use cheats?
Also really funny you say that when you just previously complained about survivors hiding… Curse your own weakness why don't ya instead…
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But that's the thing. I don't want to stop tunneling. I just want to stop Killer typically having rock-solid information as to the location of an immediately unhooked survivor due to the base-game nature of a Hooked survivor being in a single location, necessitating the assistance of another survivor, which facilitates a greater ease of tunneling base-kit, and has a side effect of reinforcing camping behavior.
If you want to tunnel, invest in Informational Perks, not just stacking slowdown and leveraging basic positional dynamics inherent with the current Hook system.
But I do realize that all this does need to come with Killer buffs, I just don't really know what that should be since I typically don't sweat all that much in my matches.
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If information is the issue, removing the unhook notification is the first step.
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Which punishes players that are spreading hooks with less information and also gives another incentive to proxy Hook to "keep information up to date"
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Wow. I bet youre a real fun one in end game chat. Way to put words in my mouth. How and when did i advicate and condone cheating? thats a wild claim. Could have had a proper discussion but you have to result to petty little jabs. crazy. I was complaining about survivors hiding yes but that was from the perspective of a survivor lol youre absolutley sad man.
You want to use the TOS as a baseline to call out tunneling/camping/slugging. Yet the game literally states that tunneling/slugging/camping isnt reportable so there goes that dumb defense
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I don't dislike the ideas. I don't think the slugging solution needs the broken status effect. Getting up with deep wound would make sense so survivors don't start healing immediately after getting up while wasting time healing their deep wound.
The anti-camp/anti-tunnel is actually very similar to a solution I came up with. But instead of the survivor jumping from hook to hook, they always stay in the same hook. And, after a time or under certain circumstances a "silhouette" of said survivor appears on a far away hook and other survivors can unhook the "silhouette" for the hooked survivor to teleport there. Killer gets the unhook notification under the original hook if this happens. This basically makes it so a survivor can be unhooked in 2 different places to avoid camping and make tunneling harder.3 -
Perhaps Broken isn't necessary, just wanted to make absolutely sure it's not an option that becomes a meta-choice over trying to pick up (Survivor Healing) a dying Survivor.
Yeah, presentation is up in the air with regards to Anti-tunnel, but IMO the mandatory premise is basically: Overtime the Hooked Survivor can be unhooked elsewhere.
I like the unhook notification staying at the starting hook. I'd suggest that the Anti-tunnel system is at the Hooked Survivors discretion though, instead of something entirely automatic. Gives 'em something to do, and introduces a human factor in the result for better ambiguity as to the unhook spot.
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I wasn't the one that ended an introductory response by saying all losses are simply skill issues and insinuating I'm part of the younger generation and spoilt.
And I'm not putting words in your mouth, it's why I was questioning what you said. I'm working off of the quote you seemingly posited, as exploiting systems is an ability one could leverage to overcome what would otherwise be considered losses, (curse yourself for not doing so).
Though speaking of putting words in mouths, I never said that the TOS are pro/con tunneling/camping/slugging. You're the one making the association between that when I was mainly using it as an example as to how your quote can be used in a malicious manner. I was also using it in reference to the survivor using cheats to pick themselves up, so you're twice off-the-mark.
You also probably don't play survivor much, if at all (or you didn't actually read the post), as you'd be able to gauge that my slugging proposal is still heavily in favor of the Killer. You never even touched on the anti-tunneling aspect which is much more volatile in terms of impact, seemingly focused on blind defense of slugging as a whole. So as far as a proper discussion, I doubt one would have been had in the first place.
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Dont play stupid. The cheating point you made is a total strawman and you know it. No point a made reffered to cheating at all and it never, not once would have related at all to what i said.
"Though speaking of putting words in mouths, I never said that the TOS are pro/con tunneling/camping/slugging. You're the one making the association between that when I was mainly using it as an example as to how your quote can be used in a malicious manner. I was also using it in reference to the survivor using cheats to pick themselves up, so you're twice off-the-mark"
Why bring up TOS in the first place? It %100 was your intention to use the TOS as a reasoning to to go after Slugging/Camping/Tunneling in the first place so don'e even try to gaslight me because you realized what you aid was absolutley dumb.
You also seemingly cant understand the context between why i would insinuate a "skill issue" even though thats not a proper way to refer to that at all. Camping/Tunneling/Slugging is counterable. Instead of whining and trying to find ways to "fix" it learn the game and how to be better. Odds are, any changes that are implimented to "fix" these things will like lead to more issues, confusion, bugs, and balancing issues that just arent worth it.
Also you seem really upset by my quote
"All losses in this world are due to a lack of ability. If you want to curse someone, curse your own weakness"Thats just a fun quote from our next DLC Tokyo Ghoul that semi correlates to what i was stating.
Also I've played a lot of both killer and survivor and I primarily play survivor. I've been playing this game since 2017....
Maybe stay away from gaslighting and strawmans in your next reply. Okay?
Sorry if it shows a second post for some reason it bugged out when posting and it sometimes shows and sometimes doesnt.
Post edited by TohsakaMine on-1 -
I play both actually and i mostely play survivor lol ive been playing this game since 2017….. Also the cheating point was a total strawman and you know it. that ahd nothing to do with my point in the slightest. and you 100% were saying that TOS is pro/con tunneling because you wouldnt have brought it up in the first place einstein.
"We have a Terms of Service for a reason. I could try to hack the game or use cheats as a survivor to give myself the ability to pick myself up, but that isn't in accordance to the rules. And rules can be fair or unfair, well thought out or not, and changed. Get off your pontificating blinded high horse. Unless you're actually advocating to use cheats?"
- Cheating was never mentioned and has nothing to do with anything i said in the slightest. Hense it's a strawman
- Also mentioning this to a conversation about tunneling/slugging/camping is %100 implying that you thought the TOS protected against it.
- Obviously if you had basic comprehension skills i was saying that there are plenty of ways to counter tunneling/slugging/camping so instead of complaining and adovacting for unecessary changes that will likely lead to more changes you should learn these counters and get better at the game. Was i harsh? yes. This constant complaining about something that isnt and shouldnt be changed is ridiculous. Players will always find a way to exploit something and make the game as easy as possible for themselves. It's better to learn than to complain.
Crazy actually crazy response from you
I apologize for the double response for some reason i still wasn't seeing my first reply for an hour so I thought it bugged out and didn't post.
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Sigh. Dude, your quote was a jab (but apparently also posting rumors of leaked content). Your next block of text afterwards was also a jab calling new players spoiled. (Even though I started playing in 2018, I don't take kindly to jabs)
Yes, that's what annoyed me, that's why I jabbed back at you following my own use of that quote as a point of focus, a quote which I thought you added in because you thought it relevant and so I wanted to show why such a stance can be problematic by extrapolating the meaning and (I would assume) twisting the spirit of the quote. I never said you said that, simply extrapolated a scenario based on the philosophy proposed by your quote. But apparently that quote was meaningless to the discussion and you gave no weight to those words at all. s u p e r.
Although the twist certainly did get a rise out of you, likely meaning you don't actually take heed of the quote yourself, which is a good thing.
And also riddle me this:
- If all remaining survivors are in the dying state, what difference is there between them all being hooked or not?
- Should such mechanical ambiguity be present, and should bypassing the hook mechanic be possible?
- In such a circumstance, how many other gameplay features such as: pickup, struggle, hooking, unhook chance, hook demand, etc. are bypassed?
- Should you be able to bypass these game mechanics?
- In such a circumstance, does a self-pickup perk provide novel functionality found nowhere else in the game?
- Should a Perk solely provide such a critical functionality?
I frankly don't care if there are methods to avoid a 4-slug, and I heartily suggest using them! (Given that in such a scenario pickups to get back on generators faster than the Killer can down is still important.) Since my suggestion is far from a good replacement. All it is, is to ensure a fallback in the event that such a situation occurs to prevent egregious slugouts and at least some sense of agency in such a scenario.
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