Pyramid Head's torment needs a change
Honestly getting sick Pyramid Head players being allowed a free mori after hooking a survivor affected by torment and not bothering to send them to the cage. Either make torment wear off or remove his ability to mori survivor's without sending them to the cage at all
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Or maybe don't step on the goo.
Also how is being moried different from being sent to a cage? He can only mori you when you're on death hook. Sending you to a cage in that situation would change nothing.
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Because it's hardly fair that torment doesn't go away if he doesn't send you to the cage. It shouldn't last all game.
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Yet you control if you get affected by torment at all. It's not like Wesker, Nemesis or Plague, where they can infect you willingly. If you tread carefully and watch your step, there's no reason for you to get infected with torment at all. That's why you can't remove it like the other infections I mentioned.
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In a way its like mistepping in real life: you can go down the slippery slope, because its more easy and seems to be scott free at the moment - but it will burden your soul and you will have to pay dearly at a later date. Or you can take the harder and more painful choice by literaly going OUT of your way to walk into harms ways and soak up one of the tough hits that life sometimes throws your way. Pyramid Heads power is quite literally the most lore accurate of them all, and thats so beautiful, yet seldom appreciated.
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- You can crouch walk through it and not be tormented
- If you free someone from a cage both of you become untormented
- It’s literally a basekit Mori that has an extra requirement so it’s not free at all
- trails can’t be near gens or hooks or gates
- They only last 90 seconds
Its Fine how it is
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Pyramid Head can do his quick Mori because in that situation there is no practical difference between getting Mori'd and getting sent to a cage to die instantly. You are in a situation where you would die either way, no matter what, so the only real difference is the chop wastes less of everyone's time.
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If they made the cages stronger anti-camp (like 2v8 so he can't camp the uncage for a free down with power + range add-ons) and gave basekit BT out of a cage rescue I'd have no issue. Realistically the power is only dodgeable if you shift+W, he is meant to torment you eventually, which is fine save for how easy it is to camp and tunnel out with cages.
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Torment has no other status effects. You're not hindered, you're not oblivious, blinded or anything for that matter. It's not "Unfair" by any means truthfully.
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I am so happy! So many fine folks chiming in to defend ma boi Pyramid Head <3
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Nah nah nah she obviously cooking she's right we need more status effects on trail of torment
Give it Hindred, Mangled, Deep wounds it is barbwire after all
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I thought clown was your boy🤔
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there is nothing about pyramid head that needs chnages other than him getting an addon pass
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facts
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a bunch of killer powers are like that - they arent exactly straightforward "fitting" but the gameplay they create just perfectly captures the idea behind the character or what it might feel like to deal with them.
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when they were global nerfing sloppy butcher by adding timer to it, they sneaked this funny change to one of Pyramid Head's addons
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Make it basekit
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Why would someone playing Pyramid Head even hook someone who's Tormented instead of caging them?
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The cage sends the person straight to the other side of the map, as far away from Pyramid Head as possible. There could be a gen over there that the killer knows is pressured right now, that gen could even be next to the exit gate, giving them basically a free escape. Pyramid Head could know of a survivor with a Flashlight hot on pursuit and wants to bait them out.
Sometimes a hook is just more preferable from its location, like central and right next to the main gen, so that both can be patroled and kept an eye on. And of course, sometimes the killer might want to preserve the tormented status for the mori, as both the unhooked and the unhooker lose their tormented status.
Pyramid Heads cage isn't just a no-brainer every time its available, it has lots of nuances to it that might elude the careless observer.
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Nah. I play Clown every now and then, but not that much. I wish I could play his yellow bottles as good as Arinad, but I am not ready to invest that much painful hours into Clown … and reading that book :D
But I like Clown enough and reconed that not too many would use his profile pic as their avatar, thats why I picked that one. But Pyramid Head is my one and only main, he is just too good and I am pretty deadly with him.
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complaining about a killer who hasn’t been changed in ages is funny lol
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Not entirely true, ever since Pyramid head's release, his trails have been ridiculously buggy, often disappearing for no reason despite still being present in terms of survivors being able to stand in them.
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Also to add to this, we can't forget that hooking perks exist. Even though I don't use them on him, a lot of people do - if my choice is between getting a Pain Res or a cage, and I'm not chasing another survivor right by me, I'm picking the Pain Res
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It's time to main Urban Evasion
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Nah, keep the permanent torment and add back that PTB change of torment on your M2 attack too.
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Also the Killer Instinct Add-on for Freddy which is surprisingly good.
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He doesn't need changes. There are plenty of ways to counter it, and whilst on a very rare occasion it's impossible to avoid, the vast majority are avoidable by degrees.
Ultimately, if you're on last hook anyway when down, it's either the Hook, a Mori Offering, or the Torment Mori. There's very little difference.
It's best to learn how to avoid the Trails. They are certainly far less problematic to deal with than his blast. Learn the Killer and, if you really don't want Torment and are cornered between The Executioner and Trails, crouch and take the hit. He may down you, but at least you avoid Torment.
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that one should be basekit, ngl
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Find you hit you twice hook/cage you, find you again hit you twice hook/cage you, find you again hit you twice after you have tormented yourself = free?
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I love it when people say “free” 🤣 it’s wild.
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No. There would be NO reason to play pyramid head over artist if you were forced to cage to be able to mori. Its just giving the survivors one freebie before being mori'd which you complained about it and even then caging vs tormented mori is about the same duration. Not to mention caging is overall worse because you NEED pressure perks as phead and a lot of those come from hooking.
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PH is perfectly fine the way he is, if anything I'd buff his addons but I can't talk on that too much since I main him
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That's like 1 of 2 powers he even has. That's the point. It's not like Myers where it's an add-on based, "Hey! I've never damaged or hooked you before, but you die instantly!"
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You have a very personal definition of "free".
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Pyramid definitely has problems. Cages enable him to camp and tunnel with almost complete impunity. No Endurance or even brief invincibility after being uncaged, none of the anti-camping and tunnelling perks work on cages, not even Exhaustion resets. He perplexingly enough gets an uncage explosion notification, making it easy to find and tunnel the uncaged survivor, but experienced Pyramids also have no issue extrapolating on the cage spawn location to begin with.
BHVR finally wisened up and increased the range for the cage relocation mechanic to account for the fact that Pyramid has a ranged ability, but he can still facecamp cages simply by standing out of said range and moving in once anybody uncages:
Compelling gameplay design.
And that's on top of cages saving a lot of time and having a very potent ranged ability that leads to a lot of chase interactions being coinflips for survivors at best, often not really having any real counterplay.
I think trails should be buffed and cages nerfed, at the very least doing things such as removing the uncage notification, having normal unhook i-frames and perhaps even Endurance on uncages as well, making the cage relocate after 1 second of Pyramid coming within 10m of it. Trails should stick around until replaced, and pose more of a threat. Here's two old posts of mine that outline some quick ideas for nerfs and buffs:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606310/#Comment_3606310
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3157800/#Comment_3157800
Another thing Pyramid needs is better add-ons, and that could also be compensation for cage nerfs. Lots of easy ideas for really good trail add-ons, such as trails afflicting survivors with Exhaustion, Mangled/Hemorrhage, hell, even injuring them if they run through them too often, causing Broken or Deep Wound.
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Remember caging is (99% of the time because there have been times where this is no physical trail on the ground and I still got tormented) in complete survivor control as THEY have to run into the trail and is very hard to force a survivor into running into one. There would literally be no point in caging if the survivors get exhaustion reset and endurance out of cages. Sure there is the scenarios where there's a flashlight or a pallet but yet again the survivor WONT get tormented unless they want to which even then if you place the trail on the pallet they could crouch walk the extra distance to the pallet to ignore the trail.
I would only agree to giving survivors unhook perks on cages IF that random pyramid head experiment they did went through where he tormented you if he hit you with his m2.0 -
lol no…
Also its faster than hooking people
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Now I won't say it's easy to torment survivors because whenever I have the challenge to cage survivors I find myself having to go out of my way to get people tormented, or just needing to play multiple matches. But saying it's completely in the survivor's control is also not true. You can place a trail at any loop and keep chasing the survivor on it - if they cannot leave the loop, "avoiding the trail" would guarantee a hit most of every time, whether they try to crouch through it or run around it. They are usually forced to run through it if they don't want to take a free hit.
Cages have plenty of utility outside of the lack of Exhaustion reset and Endurance: they save a lot of time that you would otherwise spend picking up, carrying and hooking a survivor, instead not even having to leave your position and being able to instantly go back to doing productive things; you completely circumvent blind, stun and sabo saves; cages still negate tons of hook-based perks, such as Decisive Strike, Off The Record, Reassurance, We'll Make It, Babysitter, Deliverance, Second Wind, Kindred, Dead Hard, and so on; while sending survivors across the map can lead to them ending up next to another survivor that can quickly uncage them, it can also lead to survivors having to spend a lot of time running there while you didn't have to carry them there.
Instead of having that "torment on punishment" mechanic (which I do suspect they came up with because their stats showed them that on average not a lot of survivors are getting tormented in Pyramid matches), I would simply make it so that you cannot crouch through trails anymore. Between that and the aforementioned change where trails remain active until replaced, they would be a much more reliable tool to control areas and track survivors, as well as torment them.
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That still is the survivors choice. They get presented with taking a hit or going through torment for a possibly crippling downside later in the match at the expense of a longer chase. The former is usually better since pyramid head is still an m1 with a mid ranged attack thats a tiny bit hard to dodge. You force the pyramid head to hook giving you access to your unhook perks. The only real threatening part of cages is the mori because if the pyramid head spends THAT long looking around and decides to sit at a cage… well its a free 3 out because if the survivors allow for THAT its on them.
It's all about micro and macro play which a lot of dbd players don't understand or refuse to learn.
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I really don't think taking hits/downs to avoid becoming tormented is usually worth it, that's much more of an edge-case argument, but it's fair enough to say that it's at least still a survivor choice. Actually forcing/tricking people into trails without them being able to do anything about it is definitely fairly rare.
Currently the most threatening thing about cages is the ability to camp and tunnel with little there to combat it. And it's problematic. Now (un)fortunately and surprisingly, not a lot of people opt to play Pyramid Head, and of them even fewer go for merciless camp/tunnel cage strategies, so I don't think this is too pressing of an issue. But nobody can look at the little clip I posted there and come away saying "yep, nothing wrong there". It's comically problematic. And I think the idea of "buff trails, nerf cages" is worthwhile even regardless of whether it would be done because cages are problematic - I do think currently it happens too rarely that survivors become tormented, and add-ons that pertain trails would also be much better as a result.
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you're not entirely correct
a play that a pyramid head of even the lowest skill can do is put down the trail and keep dropping you in it until you are off to ¨infect¨ you
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I mean sure??? But that requires him to pick you up, which would make him eat the DS that he could otherwise avoid by sending you to a cage/mori'ing you if you were already tormented from beforehand. Not to mention the huge time waste that picking up and letting go is.
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Heres the thing there isnt much you can even do to buff trails to make them worth placing. Sure you can make it so people cant crouch over them… but then you get an alternate hook that sends them in possibly a super safe location or inconvenient to go to. You lose out on hook perks for worse versions of regression/pressure while they still get all the benefits of being unhooked like in your idea.
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Not being able to crouch through trails would not only make it much more reliable to torment survivors but also make them much more potent as a tracking ability as you can close off areas and always know if someone is entering or leaving, be that certain gens, hooks, the basement, totems, buildings, halves of maps... Add-ons to do with trails could further improve things like I said, afflicting survivors with Mangled/Hemorrhage/Exhausted/Oblivious/Broken/Deep Wound/…, but basekit adjustments are also feasible, such as a brief Hindered effect from trails, or seeing the survivor's aura on top of the killer instinct. There's definitely a lot you can do.
Like I've already mentioned as well, cages do a lot more than you let on. The time saving alone is immensely valuable, and that can be doubly true even precisely because you send them across the map, survivors often having to run there and back again. The fact that hook-based perks do not trigger off cages would remain, and that is not only highly relevant for anti-camping and tunnelling perks such as Decisive Strike, Deliverance, Reassurance, etc., but also things that generally give survivors value but now won't come into play, like We'll Make It, Resurgence, Dead Hard. There's tons of perks survivors commonly use that don't benefit them at all on cages, even stuff like Kindred or Babysitter, whereas you as killer can simply opt not to use hook-based perks, and there are plenty of good options for that. Not having to worry about blind, stun or sabo saves or stuff like Flip-Flop/Power Struggle/Boil Over is also good.
The only things I would do is remove the uncage explosion notification, make it so cages relocate after 1 second of Pyramid being within range rather than 3.5 seconds, and give the uncaged survivor the same i-frames and Endurance that they get on unhooks. That's it. Maybe hooked survivors could also lose torment, but that depends on just how potent buffed trails would be.
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you do realize its when they are first downed correct?
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