Balance the game.

FangGreyfur

I'd really wanna hear from people who's played since way back when we just had 3 killers. Is the game better now or worse?
I see a lot of both, BUT mostly I see complains from both sides saying that they are too op and the meta needs to change, I wholeheartedly agree, as a survivor, I hate seeing Ruin and BBQ pop up, same with M&A. as a Killer I don't mind most of the jerkish perks since most of them can be beaten. (For example, you see a David and you expect that he has No mither and Dead Hard? Pack Thanato to punish that and make sure your power add exhaustion, if they can be added).

Mostly, I'd wanna see reworks in a few killers, mainly Clown, Nurse, Doctor, Huntress and Legion.
Clown: Do something about that tonic, I feel like the channeling is way too fast (Granted, I only have survivor experience against him. so I dunno his addons) I feel like we got him cause people complained that they got pallet looped. Stop being predictable.
Nurse: Yes, she has a lot of downsides with her power, which is a good thing, however, as long as the basement isn't below her, you can flick down when blinking and not be juked by survivors. so she needs either some extra movement speed and lunge to greatly nerf her blinks, or change the addons to add both upsides and backsides to her power, like the more blinks you have, the longer it takes to reload them for example.
Doctor: Stealth against him is pointless, yes, Lockers doesn't exist for him, but it's still not a smart hiding place, as soon as he only sees 3 screaming survivors (given that he has the addons) he will know where you are. I do not know how to balance him. maybe have an over reliance of the Spark ability be punished with some kinda stun?
Huntress: Iridescent head and infantry belt...... As long as these two can be combined, she's kinda crap. the Iridescent head was already pretty balanced, instadown hatchet, but it's only one meaning that if you manage to make her hit a wall, she wastes it, I'd like to see an update where the infantry belt can't be played with the head. or that the infantry belt be removed, think back to The Pig, she has Amanda's Letter, really good addon, you have only 1 bear trap, but it makes tracking that one survivor easier, however, she has no addon to give her more bear traps, or a way to recover them.
Legion: I know I know, everyone rags on him, but the ability to keep in frenzy if you hit the survivor is kinda dumb, they already nerfed the mix tape luckily, now I just hope that they nerf his core ability.

Now, I wanna see civilized discussions here, no harassment, I wanna see this game improved as much as everyone else. and we can improve it.
You have any ideas on how to nerf or strengthen killers that I didn't think of?
(Note: I personally only play Myers and Pig, with a wee bit of Trapper now and then and I will gladly give you my ideas on nerfs for them or strengths if you ask)

FangGreyfur

I'd like to also add that I'm well aware that balancing a game like this is a hell and a half.
it's basically ying and yang, if you weaken the killers, you need to weaken or strengthen the survivors so that it's a 50/50 thing, but right now, I can't help but notice that without good teamwork, survivors lose every match at least in rank 15 and up

Lagoni

@FangGreyfur said:

If every David you go up against is using "No Mither", no wonder you are having an easy time

I don't think these killer nerfs are needed. Nurse is obviously OP, but the add-on nerfs you suggest already exist for the most part. Many of them come with a downside like less time before the stun between blinks, or longer stuns. A rework to her base-kit is probably what would be needed as she is still very strong without add-ons. Who knew that teleportation would be powerful in a game where distance between characters is everything.

Nerfing doctor would be a mistake IMO. He is quite weak. You don't have success stealthing against him, because he is an anti-stealth killer. If he is someones Achilles heel, use "Calm Spirit" or just be glad that very few people play him.

Huntress running 3 insta hatchets is strong, but rare. I know that some people literally has loads of the add-ons, but they have that because they don't use them, which means exactly that; they don't use them. I rarely go up against that combo.

Clown is an anti-looper yes, but he's not that strong. I don't know what you mean by "don't be predictable". Most looping revolves around the survivor making a mistake. Clown essentially shortens loops. So you have to drop the pallet earlier.

As for legion, I don't have much experience with them (haven't bought the killer, and haven't played against it much), but they don't stay in frenzy when they hit a survivor that has a bleed-out timer. They are definitely not as weak as people first proclaimed they were, but they lack pressure from what i can tell. They have to focus down one survivor at a time, and if they go for multiple people at a time (which i think they were designed for), they will often loose quite badly. If you are persistent, you will always win the chase without doing anything fancy, but all chases will last pretty much the same amount of time, which means you are just hoping that the other 3 survivors aren't fast on gens.

Shad03

Alright, I'mma try to address your points as best as I could, as civil as I could. For this reason, I will consider each paragraph a point, and answer as best as I can.

1. No, he is fine. In the right hands a Clown can demolish good players near his level. Now I am not good Clown player so I am not of the 20% who can consistently 4k with him. He already has to deal with invisible walls and glitches that messes up his throw, and the tonic falls down slow.
2. She, as you noted, has downsides to her Blink ability already. And she already gets a lot of debuffs for even bringing in 90% of the add-ons she has. The more blinks she uses, the longer her Fatigue state is whether or not she hits or misses, so she needs no further downside. Not every Nurse you face is a god omega blink Nurse.
3. Doctor is laughably weak. Sure in the right hands (Notice a pattern?) he can take out a group easily. But I found out a method when fighting a doctor. Run at him as he is preparing to shock you. That's it. He is slower when he is in treatment mode, and slows down even more attempting to shock you. Not to mention right now people are saying his power is glitched in a bad way for him. His power, when used poorly, is a detriment to him instead of a tool to use.
4. Sure, then remove the survivors ability to use two add-ons that boost their effectiveness on whatever item they have. Like a flashlight with the lens-bulb/battery combo. Or a toolbox with a charge add-on and any efficiency thing of your choice (Hacksaw, Joints, etc). No? Doesn't make sense? Well that's what Huntresses will say. Believe it or not the combo was even more broken back then. Back then she could carry all five of her hatchets running this, I have no idea how long you've been in this game but the add on combo had already been nerfed. As did her machine gun hatchet build. The Pig does have two add ons that give her a extra trap. Either of them being paired with her Aura Reading add on will give her two traps to use.
5. No, that would make his power utterly useless for it's intended purpose. The point of him refreshing and keeping his Feral Frenzy after a hit is to chase other survivors. He already has to deal with a stun when he wants to hit the same person over and over again. What he needs is a buff to his core ability or a complete rework. Franks Mixtape hasn't been touched yet, so it'll still have use.

I hope you read my feedback and try to understand my points. I also hope I don't sound negative in anyway but this was my answer to you.
(I play as a variety of all the killers, but my main shall always be my baby boy Trapper.)

LordziPL

I dissagree with Clown. He's fine with training. And Add-dons - here's combinations (Green + Purple bottle addon - for longer toxic, or ultrafast recovering bottles with 5. You need to understand him to play him good. (Except for Gen Rush, the best Clown can't 4k with gen rush) Legion theoretically can face gen rush in practice no because no one heal. He's fun and don't need rework. My buff proposition is giving amount of % reduce speed of actions after taking deep wound (when u mend it don't dissapear, only when you heal)
Huntress is fine for me (expection for red + purple addon ) Nurse don't need changes for me, only cosmetic nerfs.

FangGreyfur

@Lagoni said:

@FangGreyfur said:

If every David you go up against is using "No Mither", no wonder you are having an easy time

I don't think these killer nerfs are needed. Nurse is obviously OP, but the add-on nerfs you suggest already exist for the most part. Many of them come with a downside like less time before the stun between blinks, or longer stuns. A rework to her base-kit is probably what would be needed as she is still very strong without add-ons. Who knew that teleportation would be powerful in a game where distance between characters is everything.

Nerfing doctor would be a mistake IMO. He is quite weak. You don't have success stealthing against him, because he is an anti-stealth killer. If he is someones Achilles heel, use "Calm Spirit" or just be glad that very few people play him.

Huntress running 3 insta hatchets is strong, but rare. I know that some people literally has loads of the add-ons, but they have that because they don't use them, which means exactly that; they don't use them. I rarely go up against that combo.

Clown is an anti-looper yes, but he's not that strong. I don't know what you mean by "don't be predictable". Most looping revolves around the survivor making a mistake. Clown essentially shortens loops. So you have to drop the pallet earlier.

As for legion, I don't have much experience with them (haven't bought the killer, and haven't played against it much), but they don't stay in frenzy when they hit a survivor that has a bleed-out timer. They are definitely not as weak as people first proclaimed they were, but they lack pressure from what i can tell. They have to focus down one survivor at a time, and if they go for multiple people at a time (which i think they were designed for), they will often loose quite badly. If you are persistent, you will always win the chase without doing anything fancy, but all chases will last pretty much the same amount of time, which means you are just hoping that the other 3 survivors aren't fast on gens.

Yeah, again, some of the killers I have only played against, not played.... and I honestly don't wanna buy a killer I know I won't play, but thanks for the input Lagoni

FangGreyfur

@Shad03 said:
Alright, I'mma try to address your points as best as I could, as civil as I could. For this reason, I will consider each paragraph a point, and answer as best as I can.

1. No, he is fine. In the right hands a Clown can demolish good players near his level. Now I am not good Clown player so I am not of the 20% who can consistently 4k with him. He already has to deal with invisible walls and glitches that messes up his throw, and the tonic falls down slow.
2. She, as you noted, has downsides to her Blink ability already. And she already gets a lot of debuffs for even bringing in 90% of the add-ons she has. The more blinks she uses, the longer her Fatigue state is whether or not she hits or misses, so she needs no further downside. Not every Nurse you face is a god omega blink Nurse.
3. Doctor is laughably weak. Sure in the right hands (Notice a pattern?) he can take out a group easily. But I found out a method when fighting a doctor. Run at him as he is preparing to shock you. That's it. He is slower when he is in treatment mode, and slows down even more attempting to shock you. Not to mention right now people are saying his power is glitched in a bad way for him. His power, when used poorly, is a detriment to him instead of a tool to use.
4. Sure, then remove the survivors ability to use two add-ons that boost their effectiveness on whatever item they have. Like a flashlight with the lens-bulb/battery combo. Or a toolbox with a charge add-on and any efficiency thing of your choice (Hacksaw, Joints, etc). No? Doesn't make sense? Well that's what Huntresses will say. Believe it or not the combo was even more broken back then. Back then she could carry all five of her hatchets running this, I have no idea how long you've been in this game but the add on combo had already been nerfed. As did her machine gun hatchet build. The Pig does have two add ons that give her a extra trap. Either of them being paired with her Aura Reading add on will give her two traps to use.
5. No, that would make his power utterly useless for it's intended purpose. The point of him refreshing and keeping his Feral Frenzy after a hit is to chase other survivors. He already has to deal with a stun when he wants to hit the same person over and over again. What he needs is a buff to his core ability or a complete rework. Franks Mixtape hasn't been touched yet, so it'll still have use.

I hope you read my feedback and try to understand my points. I also hope I don't sound negative in anyway but this was my answer to you.
(I play as a variety of all the killers, but my main shall always be my baby boy Trapper.)

Cheers, I appreciate that your answer wasn't pretty much "You're wrong here's why" but instead used experience and I can accept that. Thanks Shad!

FangGreyfur

@LordziPL said:
I dissagree with Clown. He's fine with training. And Add-dons - here's combinations (Green + Purple bottle addon - for longer toxic, or ultrafast recovering bottles with 5. You need to understand him to play him good. (Except for Gen Rush, the best Clown can't 4k with gen rush) Legion theoretically can face gen rush in practice no because no one heal. He's fun and don't need rework. My buff proposition is giving amount of % reduce speed of actions after taking deep wound (when u mend it don't dissapear, only when you heal)
Huntress is fine for me (expection for red + purple addon ) Nurse don't need changes for me, only cosmetic nerfs.

Ah, well It could be just me who only have the survivor side of Clown, again, I don't own him, and as for Legion, I only mean that Outrunning Legion is... quite the thing if you don't have the luck off loads of vault points so you can outrun him/her, or that The Legion player has no grasp on the timing and can greet their face with a pallet.
Thanks for the input LordziPL!

FangGreyfur

I'd like to so far thank the people who took their time to answer and did so without attacking me for suggesting changes in a few killers that are widely popular, I kinda only play, as stated, Trapper, Myers and Pig as a killer.
As for changes in the Survivor side, I personally wanna see the devs reward co operative actions more, maybe have co op repairing gens give more BP in the objective maybe, cause right now I see a lot of Every man and woman for themselves in game, that's no fun when survivors are only really strong if they work together.

If you still like to drop the "Killers are weaker" argument, try 1v1ing someone on KYF and slowly increase that, see where your problem area is, there is a reason why there are 4 survivors against one killer
Anyways, keep the inputs coming, and keep things civilized and respect other's intelligence, we don't want this community to be the next "as Toxic as League" community (Trust me, I've ran into a few Toxic dirtbags)

Jplanas98

@FangGreyfur said:
I'd really wanna hear from people who's played since way back when we just had 3 killers. Is the game better now or worse?
I see a lot of both, BUT mostly I see complains from both sides saying that they are too op and the meta needs to change, I wholeheartedly agree, as a survivor, I hate seeing Ruin and BBQ pop up, same with M&A. as a Killer I don't mind most of the jerkish perks since most of them can be beaten. (For example, you see a David and you expect that he has No mither and Dead Hard? Pack Thanato to punish that and make sure your power add exhaustion, if they can be added).

Mostly, I'd wanna see reworks in a few killers, mainly Clown, Nurse, Doctor, Huntress and Legion.
Clown: Do something about that tonic, I feel like the channeling is way too fast (Granted, I only have survivor experience against him. so I dunno his addons) I feel like we got him cause people complained that they got pallet looped. Stop being predictable.
Nurse: Yes, she has a lot of downsides with her power, which is a good thing, however, as long as the basement isn't below her, you can flick down when blinking and not be juked by survivors. so she needs either some extra movement speed and lunge to greatly nerf her blinks, or change the addons to add both upsides and backsides to her power, like the more blinks you have, the longer it takes to reload them for example.
Doctor: Stealth against him is pointless, yes, Lockers doesn't exist for him, but it's still not a smart hiding place, as soon as he only sees 3 screaming survivors (given that he has the addons) he will know where you are. I do not know how to balance him. maybe have an over reliance of the Spark ability be punished with some kinda stun?
Huntress: Iridescent head and infantry belt...... As long as these two can be combined, she's kinda crap. the Iridescent head was already pretty balanced, instadown hatchet, but it's only one meaning that if you manage to make her hit a wall, she wastes it, I'd like to see an update where the infantry belt can't be played with the head. or that the infantry belt be removed, think back to The Pig, she has Amanda's Letter, really good addon, you have only 1 bear trap, but it makes tracking that one survivor easier, however, she has no addon to give her more bear traps, or a way to recover them.
Legion: I know I know, everyone rags on him, but the ability to keep in frenzy if you hit the survivor is kinda dumb, they already nerfed the mix tape luckily, now I just hope that they nerf his core ability.

Now, I wanna see civilized discussions here, no harassment, I wanna see this game improved as much as everyone else. and we can improve it.
You have any ideas on how to nerf or strengthen killers that I didn't think of?
(Note: I personally only play Myers and Pig, with a wee bit of Trapper now and then and I will gladly give you my ideas on nerfs for them or strengths if you ask)

See the thing is that Ruin, BBQ, and M&A are all perks needed if you want to have a decent chance at winning or at least getting a 2 kill game. Ruin, I think everyone knows it's needed especially at high ranks just to prevent gen rushing and keep the game from ending quick. BBQ is honestly not as OP as some people complain it is, it's an easy counter. Just walk in one direction for a few seconds then turn back around to throw the killer off, or his behind gens or be within range to prevent your aura from being seen. Not to mention they practically nerfed it by making it so you can't see auras of people in locker, and the fact that distortion is a perk. As for M&A the smaller terror radius is great, but the improved FOV is what's really important. The horrible FOV on killers is what makes it hard to see properly and land hits, so with a better FOV the killer can see a lot better.

As for your whole nerf ideas for killers, you didn't have much of an argument. Like with the Clown, there was really no argument there other than you saying he channels too fast. Nurse, as someone said, her add ons pretty much make her weaker by adding extra fatigue time and stuff like that. Doctor, it would be ridiculous to nerf him seeing as how he's one of the weakest killers and how his ability hasn't been working properly lately. He's just been overall buggy since the last few updates. Also your argument of the doctor knowing where you are after seeing the other 3 survivors scream makes no sense. 3 survivors screaming isn't gonna tell him where you are, the only way for him to know where you are is if you scream or if he has an aura reading perk. Huntress, that's situational. Not everyone is gonna have those add ons especially since iridescent head is a rare add on. Plus, a few updates ago they nerfed some of her wind up add ons making it so she cant aim as fast as she used to be able to. If they nerf any more of her add ons she's going to be unplayable. As for legion, the whole purpose of his ability is to be able to see the heartbeats of survivor within therefore radius once he's landed the first hit off a survivor who isn't in deep wounds, so to cancel his frenzy after the first hit would make his ability completely useless. Besides, if he hits the same person a second time it cancels his ability and completely depletes the ability bar. Even a basic attack depletes his ability bar.

Jplanas98

@FangGreyfur said:
I'd like to so far thank the people who took their time to answer and did so without attacking me for suggesting changes in a few killers that are widely popular, I kinda only play, as stated, Trapper, Myers and Pig as a killer.
As for changes in the Survivor side, I personally wanna see the devs reward co operative actions more, maybe have co op repairing gens give more BP in the objective maybe, cause right now I see a lot of Every man and woman for themselves in game, that's no fun when survivors are only really strong if they work together.

If you still like to drop the "Killers are weaker" argument, try 1v1ing someone on KYF and slowly increase that, see where your problem area is, there is a reason why there are 4 survivors against one killer
Anyways, keep the inputs coming, and keep things civilized and respect other's intelligence, we don't want this community to be the next "as Toxic as League" community (Trust me, I've ran into a few Toxic dirtbags)

If you're 1v1ing a killer of course you're gonna lose, you're gonna get 1 hooked each time simply because you don't have a partner to rescue you. That's not an argument at all. I take it you're new to the game?

Jplanas98

@FangGreyfur said:
I'd like to so far thank the people who took their time to answer and did so without attacking me for suggesting changes in a few killers that are widely popular, I kinda only play, as stated, Trapper, Myers and Pig as a killer.
As for changes in the Survivor side, I personally wanna see the devs reward co operative actions more, maybe have co op repairing gens give more BP in the objective maybe, cause right now I see a lot of Every man and woman for themselves in game, that's no fun when survivors are only really strong if they work together.

If you still like to drop the "Killers are weaker" argument, try 1v1ing someone on KYF and slowly increase that, see where your problem area is, there is a reason why there are 4 survivors against one killer
Anyways, keep the inputs coming, and keep things civilized and respect other's intelligence, we don't want this community to be the next "as Toxic as League" community (Trust me, I've ran into a few Toxic dirtbags)

This really isnt even an argument. If you 1 v 1 a killer of course you're gonna lose. Not only does he have to track only you, but the second you get hooked you're gonna die instantly just because there's no one to rescue you from the hook. No one's saying he game shouldn't be 1 v 4, but there's no denying that survivors are extremely easier to play than killer. Judging by this comment alone I'm guessing you're new to the game so trust me, once you have more killer experience, meaning going past rank 10, then you'll understand.

FangGreyfur

@Jplanas98 said:

@FangGreyfur said:
I'd like to so far thank the people who took their time to answer and did so without attacking me for suggesting changes in a few killers that are widely popular, I kinda only play, as stated, Trapper, Myers and Pig as a killer.
As for changes in the Survivor side, I personally wanna see the devs reward co operative actions more, maybe have co op repairing gens give more BP in the objective maybe, cause right now I see a lot of Every man and woman for themselves in game, that's no fun when survivors are only really strong if they work together.

If you still like to drop the "Killers are weaker" argument, try 1v1ing someone on KYF and slowly increase that, see where your problem area is, there is a reason why there are 4 survivors against one killer
Anyways, keep the inputs coming, and keep things civilized and respect other's intelligence, we don't want this community to be the next "as Toxic as League" community (Trust me, I've ran into a few Toxic dirtbags)

This really isnt even an argument. If you 1 v 1 a killer of course you're gonna lose. Not only does he have to track only you, but the second you get hooked you're gonna die instantly just because there's no one to rescue you from the hook. No one's saying he game shouldn't be 1 v 4, but there's no denying that survivors are extremely easier to play than killer. Judging by this comment alone I'm guessing you're new to the game so trust me, once you have more killer experience, meaning going past rank 10, then you'll understand.

200+ hours on the game, been playing this more often than even the people who got my friends who got me in to the game....
I play both sides, I know how both sides are played. I just get real annoyed when people say that the survivors are too strong cause they really aren't if a killer can get a tight knit group, even SWF, they can win, you need to think outside the box on both sides.
I dunno if you read the full post. all I said in this comment mostly "Thank you folks for not being jerks"

Jplanas98

@FangGreyfur said:

@Jplanas98 said:

@FangGreyfur said:
I'd like to so far thank the people who took their time to answer and did so without attacking me for suggesting changes in a few killers that are widely popular, I kinda only play, as stated, Trapper, Myers and Pig as a killer.
As for changes in the Survivor side, I personally wanna see the devs reward co operative actions more, maybe have co op repairing gens give more BP in the objective maybe, cause right now I see a lot of Every man and woman for themselves in game, that's no fun when survivors are only really strong if they work together.

If you still like to drop the "Killers are weaker" argument, try 1v1ing someone on KYF and slowly increase that, see where your problem area is, there is a reason why there are 4 survivors against one killer
Anyways, keep the inputs coming, and keep things civilized and respect other's intelligence, we don't want this community to be the next "as Toxic as League" community (Trust me, I've ran into a few Toxic dirtbags)

This really isnt even an argument. If you 1 v 1 a killer of course you're gonna lose. Not only does he have to track only you, but the second you get hooked you're gonna die instantly just because there's no one to rescue you from the hook. No one's saying he game shouldn't be 1 v 4, but there's no denying that survivors are extremely easier to play than killer. Judging by this comment alone I'm guessing you're new to the game so trust me, once you have more killer experience, meaning going past rank 10, then you'll understand.

200+ hours on the game, been playing this more often than even the people who got my friends who got me in to the game....
I play both sides, I know how both sides are played. I just get real annoyed when people say that the survivors are too strong cause they really aren't if a killer can get a tight knit group, even SWF, they can win, you need to think outside the box on both sides.
I dunno if you read the full post. all I said in this comment mostly "Thank you folks for not being jerks"

Just because a killer can kill an SWF group doesn't mean they aren't weak. Freddy is arguably the weakest killer in game and it's still possible to get a 4k against SWF. Why? Because there are SWF groups that just dick ride each other the entire game and focus on altruism rather than doing gens. Killing a survivor relies more on waiting for the survivor to make a mistake rather than the killer being good, and that alone shows just how strong survivors are.

FangGreyfur

Just because a killer can kill an SWF group doesn't mean they aren't weak. Freddy is arguably the weakest killer in game and it's still possible to get a 4k against SWF. Why? Because there are SWF groups that just dick ride each other the entire game and focus on altruism rather than doing gens. Killing a survivor relies more on waiting for the survivor to make a mistake rather than the killer being good, and that alone shows just how strong survivors are.

1. That's completely true, but that doesn't make the killer weak if the SWF group wins. It's a good way for newcomers to learn in game from experienced players, some of us learn by hearing how something works and by doing (I at least learned that way).
2. Yes, He is arguably the weakest killer but as you say, can still get 4k against SWF because most SWF groups gather just to be an annoyance, but that's not every SWF group, that's like saying that anyone who plays a Sniper class in an FPS is a camping coward. It's all about preference, if people would rather play with friends cause they know they will make it then let them.
3. The argument works both ways since both sides are human players. We're all able to make mistakes, No one is a god at a game, and yes, even Rank 1 players can ######### up, it's human nature.
4. How does that show that survivors are stronger really? The killer has the upper hand, the only thing survivors can rely on is their stealth and to always keep a cool head.

I get where you're coming from my friend, but the comments original purpose, same with the post, was to see if anyone have any good changes for the game, be it survivor gameplay or killer gameplay. and to get some input from people who's played since when we just had Trapper Wraith and Billyboy.
Though, I'm interested... which SWF group have you run into most @Jplanas98 ? the trolls or people who are sick of unhelpful randos? I'm legit curious to hear which is the most common type or if both appear equally

Jplanas98

@FangGreyfur said:

Just because a killer can kill an SWF group doesn't mean they aren't weak. Freddy is arguably the weakest killer in game and it's still possible to get a 4k against SWF. Why? Because there are SWF groups that just dick ride each other the entire game and focus on altruism rather than doing gens. Killing a survivor relies more on waiting for the survivor to make a mistake rather than the killer being good, and that alone shows just how strong survivors are.

1. That's completely true, but that doesn't make the killer weak if the SWF group wins. It's a good way for newcomers to learn in game from experienced players, some of us learn by hearing how something works and by doing (I at least learned that way).
2. Yes, He is arguably the weakest killer but as you say, can still get 4k against SWF because most SWF groups gather just to be an annoyance, but that's not every SWF group, that's like saying that anyone who plays a Sniper class in an FPS is a camping coward. It's all about preference, if people would rather play with friends cause they know they will make it then let them.
3. The argument works both ways since both sides are human players. We're all able to make mistakes, No one is a god at a game, and yes, even Rank 1 players can [BAD WORD] up, it's human nature.
4. How does that show that survivors are stronger really? The killer has the upper hand, the only thing survivors can rely on is their stealth and to always keep a cool head.

I get where you're coming from my friend, but the comments original purpose, same with the post, was to see if anyone have any good changes for the game, be it survivor gameplay or killer gameplay. and to get some input from people who's played since when we just had Trapper Wraith and Billyboy.
Though, I'm interested... which SWF group have you run into most @Jplanas98 ? the trolls or people who are sick of unhelpful randos? I'm legit curious to hear which is the most common type or if both appear equally

You still haven't explained how the killer has the upper hand, all you've said is that the killer is able to still 4k. That's still not proof that the killer has the upper hand. Playing in a SWF group with comms, using decisive, flashlights, toolboxes all to gen rush and give yourself a free escape from the killer while knowing his every move the entire game. What does the killer have, an ability that sometimes doesn't work, and potentially good perks? Don't see how the killer has the upper hand.

As for the SWF part, seeing as hoe im rank 4 i tend to go against serious SWF players, although about every 1/10 games have some who try to troll or be toxic. On average I'll get 1 or 2 kills. If im lucky I'll get 4 kills because the survivors decide to dick ride the entire game, so the second I down someone they're all running to the rescue being overly altruistic. Which again is my point, I only get that 4k because of their mistake of all running to the hook rather than having one go while the others work on gens.

FangGreyfur

I'd chock up the killers upper hand to which killer it is... Freddy is easy to beat once you know his shtick and that you pretty much need to fail a gen to wake up and then be far away by the time he goes to the gen.
however the Nurse never loses, unless the player have no experience in her.
So i'd say the upper hand varies. however, even with voice com and SWF, you can still lose as the survivor, does that mean, the killer has the upper hand? no, but SWF isn't easy mode really, ######### can still hit the fan.

scorpio

@FangGreyfur said:
I'd like to so far thank the people who took their time to answer and did so without attacking me for suggesting changes in a few killers that are widely popular, I kinda only play, as stated, Trapper, Myers and Pig as a killer.
As for changes in the Survivor side, I personally wanna see the devs reward co operative actions more, maybe have co op repairing gens give more BP in the objective maybe, cause right now I see a lot of Every man and woman for themselves in game, that's no fun when survivors are only really strong if they work together.

If you still like to drop the "Killers are weaker" argument, try 1v1ing someone on KYF and slowly increase that, see where your problem area is, there is a reason why there are 4 survivors against one killer
Anyways, keep the inputs coming, and keep things civilized and respect other's intelligence, we don't want this community to be the next "as Toxic as League" community (Trust me, I've ran into a few Toxic dirtbags)

I don't think it's fair to suggest nerfs to killers you've never played/only played against at low or mid rank. 200 hours is not a lot of time in this game, and gameplay is EXTREMELY different in the red ranks than it is in lower ranks. The devs cannot balance the game around new players who don't know what they are doing yet or else it would be impossible for killers to win at high ranks. The game is balanced in favor of the survivors, that's just a fact. I suggest watching some SWF games on YouTube or something and see what we are talking about, and/or just watching high rank survivors play to see what they do and learn from them. Nerfing all the killers down to the point where rank 15s can win all the time would destroy the game at higher ranks and therefore run off all the people who play killer regularly.