Basekit Unbreakable, but...

SidneysBane1996

We all know last time Basekit Unbreakable was tested, people found ways to abuse it to make frustrating never-hook situations. However the slugging issue in DBD is now so large that something must be done. I don't load in to spend 4 minutes on the ground any more than I load in to slug everyone at five gens, none of that is engaging gameplay to anyone and Killers should not be based around it.

The solution, I think, IS Basekit Unbreakable with a few caveats.

1. This activates when three people are downed for over 30 seconds, or 15 seconds if four people are down (This punishes people who just slug for a bleedout, but not Killers that have good slug pressure).
2. If you are left down for over 60 seconds, and nobody hooks you or picks you up, this also activates, but you can only do this once and it deactivates in endgame (there's no reason for Killers to do anything but try to catch people in the endgame, so slugging is valid).
3. You can use it right off Hook, as this has counterplay, but you still only get to use it once a round unless a multiple slug without hook happens.
4. You would be able to stack this with that Nic Cage perk ONLY once as per how that perk works. This would not be doable in the endgame. It would make that perk anti-slug to a point.
5. The bleedout timer is now 2 minutes, not 4.
6. You can bleedout faster by crawling.

In addition, rework two perks: Knock Out and Unbreakable.

Knock Out
Very Rare The Cannibal Perk

Putting a Survivor into the Dying State blocks the auras of gens, totems, chests, the basement hooks, and yourself from being revealed to all Survivors within 34/24/16 m of the Downed Survivor for 15 seconds, and shows you the auras of any Survivor within that same range for 15 seconds. When you hook this Survivor, the nearest injured Survivor to that hook within 34/24/16 m screams and reveals their location.

The following effects apply to the Downed Survivor for the next 15 seconds:
- Crawls 50% slower
- Recovers 25% faster
- Suffers Blindness and Deafness

Unbreakable
Very Rare Bill Overbeck Perk

Once per Trial, press the Action button to Instantly Heal from Injured, Instantly Mend, or Instantly recover from the Broken state. You cannot pick yourself up this way.

You recover from being Broken and Hindered 20/25/30% faster, and you bleed out from Deep Wound 50% slower.

ControllerFeedback

If you are left down for over 60 seconds, and nobody hooks you or picks you up, this also activates, but you can only do this once and it deactivates in endgame (there's no reason for Killers to do anything but try to catch people in the endgame, so slugging is valid).

You can use it right off Hook, as this has counterplay, but you still only get to use it once a round unless a multiple slug without hook happens.

Are these separate use cases or a shared "token"?

The bleedout timer is now 2 minutes, not 4.

You can bleedout faster by crawling.

But why? Combined with the other conditions as-is, this would enable a 2 slug, 1 injured, 1 hook playstyle where you can just keep slugging the 2 over and over for a faster kill time than hook stages. Especially with anti-heal, killers like Legion/Plague, or high mobility killers. That just doesn't seem right to me.

Knock Out
Very Rare The Cannibal Perk

Putting a Survivor into the Dying State blocks the auras of gens, totems, chests, the basement hooks, and yourself from being revealed to all Survivors within 34/24/16 m of the Downed Survivor for 15 seconds, and shows you the auras of any Survivor within that same range for 15 seconds. When you hook this Survivor, the nearest injured Survivor to that hook within 34/24/16 m screams and reveals their location.

The following effects apply to the Downed Survivor for the next 15 seconds:
- Crawls 50% slower
- Recovers 25% faster
- Suffers Blindness and Deafness

1. That's just blindness minus survivor auras being blocked right? 15 seconds is a horrible duration for that, and making an exception for one perk is weird and not something BHVR intentionally does often. Unless that's not what you meant and it does block survivor auras.
2. The survivor aura read for the killer when downing a survivor is basically just Infectious Fright minus the scream. Considering how Distortion is right now I feel like it'd just be a straight upgrade…and 15 seconds is too long in this case.
3. The hook part is a neat idea. Not sure how it fits the theme of Knock Out or why this perk would have so many effects now.
4. Recovers 25% faster? Why though?

The Unbreakable rework is just…no thanks. Someone didn't play during the instaheal + DH for distance era. Adding passive effects on top of that (that are also just Vigil…like literally we already have that perk minus the deep wound thing) is just ????????

Emeal

The slugging issue is overblown, its only mildly or slightly infuriating, if they find this game unfun because of slugging, then this game isnt for them, BHVR has decided these things are a-okay parts of intended gameplay, because they have done absolutely nothing to stop them, which is as good as a green stamp of approval.

ALL games have some mild amount of annoying things in them because no game is perfect and especially not a game with a massive roster of characters. :)

SidneysBane1996

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860992#Comment_3860992

Understandable, and the slugging issue IS overblown IMHO, but it is happening and is a thing. This thread is for people who are upset about that and this proposal is meant to counter actual toxic slugging. If you weren't so blinded by the need to get one over by me you'd see this post is an olive branch and attempt to reach people who DO think it's too much, while also addressing the real issue with slugging - the fact that some slugging (and I don't mean the tiny little max one minute down that anyone with patience can handle, I mean really truly slugging for four minutes until death) is toxic and the game promotes doing it.

Copying what I said to follow me across the forums to other posts in order to attempt to mock me with it is immature, childish, a form of cross-forum harassment, pretty ridiculous behavior, and very toxic. Not to mention, shows a deeply unhealthy obsession with me that probably should be addressed, because why does a random person on a video game forum live in your head so rent free you feel the need to do this?

Besides, I stand by what I said in other posts, Emeal. Slugging is considered OK by BHVR. That doesn't mean it's right, it means BHVR isn't gonna do anything about it because they consider it as gameplay to be able to down Survivors and leave them down for a period of time, but the real problem is that bad actors are abusing this gameplay feature to leave people to bleed for four minutes. Throwing my own words back at me as some kind of "aha take that" doesn't mean anything here, because I stand by what I said.

Maybe instead of looking to burn bridges and get one over on people because you disagree with them and are frustrated at the game, you could instead either take a break from the game or engage with the discussion at hand like a mature adult? The discussion is about a mechanic I proposed, in case you forgot. Try to be productive, I know it's hard when you're upset at slugging and the fact you can't get under my skin, but please try.

SidneysBane1996

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860986#Comment_3860986

Now to address the only other person here who bothered to engage and not just lowkey try to insult me and start an argument…

Point One: They're a shared token, but I could see an argument for a separate use case! I agree it could be problematic, though.

Point Two: Didn't consider that, thank you - I wrote this up at 9 PM and was tired, so I didn't really think too hard. This is more meant to start a discussion on what could be possible fixes.

Point Three: I probably overbuffed Knock Out, but I genuinely can't think of what else you could do with it to keep the idea of it but not promote slugging, but also has value. How would you fix this or address Knock Out? I admit my idea's not great but I'm not sure how else to fix it. The 25% faster recovery is meant to make it ANTI slugging by buffing it in other ways as a trade-off, the way you have to go out of your way to not tunnel to get full value from Grim Embrace. So, it's a very powerful perk with a strong drawback, the way Invocations are.

Point Four: I didn't play during that era and I agree it's also probably overbuffed. Again, ideas for how this could be fixed but not break it?

Emeal

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861119#Comment_3861119

I just used the same arguments you used and your response would be equally applicable to what I said, but instead of realizing the arguments were bad, you think this is a personal attack against yourself. I apologize if you see this as cross-forum harassment and toxic, I merely adopted the same ideas of argument you offered to me, its not a personal attack to see arguments you used get used against yourself. Happens to me all the time.