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Demogorgon portal revert nerfs: Upside down Reisin+Thorny vines Add-on changes.
Would it be possible revert changes back to 40% Upside down Reisin & Thorny vines to 14%.
Comments
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As a Demo main, I really dont understand why they nerf his Portal addons so often, when most of the Portal addons dont even get used and it just further shoehorns players into running Rat Liver, Black Heart, and Barb's Glasses every game. Why use Portals addons or alternative playstyles if they are just going to get nerfed anyways?
- Revert Viscous Webbing; Increases time required for Survivors to seal Portals by 10% (should be 14%).
- Revert Thorny Vines; Increases time required for Survivors to seal Portals by 8% (should be 14%), Increases range of Killer Instinct by 1 meter (should be 3 meters).
- Revert Upside-Down Resin; Increases time required for Survivors to seal portals by 20% (should go back to 40%).
- Revert Leprose Lichen; After emerging from a Portal, the auras of all Survivors within 16 meters of a Portal (should remove the range requirement) are revealed for 3 seconds (should increase the duration to 5 seconds).
- Eleven's Soda; Shows yellow auras for Generators being repaired while traversing the Upside Down (should be reverted back to the original effect).
Leprose Lichen is the weirdest of the nerfs since it was nerfed because it was basically like a "free map-wide BBQ" but Knight can have infinite Blood Warden and free Bamboozle with his Iridescent Company Banner because that's fine apparently. Yes, Im still salty that they nerfed Leprose Lichen.
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Just cause I like DBD history, a plebian Demo and am confused but also interested, would you guys mind explaining why your numbers differ to the patch notes, and why you want some of those changes?
The Demogorgon - Addons
- Viscous Webbing:
- Increases the Sealing time of Portals by 10% (was 16%) (You reckon 14%? Why a drop of 2%? Are both the wiki and patch notes wrong? https://deadbydaylight.wiki.gg/wiki/Viscous_Webbing)
- Thorny Vines:
- Increases the Area of Effect of Active Portals by 1 meter (was 1.5 prior to 4.7.0, and you want 3m? Why?)
- Increases the Sealing time of Portals by 8% (was 11%) (was 14% prior to 4.7.0, understand this, but thoughts would be interesting)
- Upside Down Resin:
- Increases the Sealing time or Portals by 20% (was 28%) (I dunno where this 28% number comes from, was this a 50% nerf to this add-on? I think the wiki alkso contains an error… https://deadbydaylight.wiki.gg/wiki/Upside_Down_Resin :S)
- Leprose Lichen:
- While traversing the Upside Down, the Auras of all Survivors are revealed to you.
- After emerging from a Portal, the Auras of all Survivors within 16 metres of an active Portal are revealed to you for 3 seconds. (changed in 7.2.0, originally was global. Why would auras and longer auras of far away survivors be useful after emerging? There is an argument for "why not?", but even if it were changed, the primary effect and immediate value doesn't seem to alter much, or am I wrong?)
- Eleven's Soda:
- Shows the Auras of Generators being repaired in yellow while traversing the Upside Down. (Prior to 4.7.0 - Reduces the Power Recovery Cool-down by -2 seconds after traversing the Upside Down. Basekit for this is 10s. Hmmm… seems fair enough… bouncing between portals more in the event you take a bad portal?)
0 - Viscous Webbing:
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The patch notes were wrong. Ingame those addons had different stats than what they’ve wrote in the patch notes.
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Figured that was the case, looks like the wiki is also messed up too then, I'll need to flag that when I get the chance.
Just to give a fair shake... A 50% nerf to Upside Down Resin seems pretty heavy… at a base time of 12s for 1 survivor, the old add-on makes it 20s, the new add on makes it 15s, which is actually a 62.5% loss... whivh is a pretty insane nerf... Diminishing effects of course for more survivors working on it... so in that regard this is an extremely harsh nerf...
However to play Devil's Advocate, in the same breathe, a whole extra 8s seems to be quite a lot... pushed up to 27s overall for both old portal add-ons. Even with 3 survivors on it, it is still 18s.
I'm not saying broken... but that is a pretty huge shift in portal closing time... it seems pretty obvious that BHVR are targetting ye olde Devour Hope Demogorgon... which let's be fair, is pretty nasty to beat. Its the same issue as the change to TotH, when you starts getting into 50-60% charge per second reductions, you get into the realms of triple the time to do things.
So I guess the argument against this revert would be that Devour Hope Demogorgon exists… which against a pallet shredding zoner killer is a pretty oppressive build... a middle ground seems to be a better route? Your guys thoughts?
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You reckon 14%? Why a drop of 2%? Are both the wiki and patch notes wrong?
Yes but no.
The ingame values they actually provide has never matched the description when doing speed checks for the addon, when lining up videos perfectly it always amount out to around 14% instead of the original intended amount.
Unironically though, they fixed this when tweaking the addon since they had to change the description and percent to match up, so at the very least it saves time on bug reports.
was 1.5 prior to 4.7.0, and you want 3m? Why?
This Im aware of, it use to have only slightly more range, being 1.5 meters, and not 3 meters.
I think it should be tweaked to 3 meters since the Killer Instinct from Portals could definitely have their addons buffed since they are overall lackluster and awful.
(I dunno where this 28% number comes from, was this a 50% nerf to this add-on? I think the wiki alkso contains an error…
It was 40%. The wiki is straight up wrong in the values since it relied on an error in the Patch Notes, the ingame value was 40% and was listed as such in the ingame description.
changed in 7.2.0, originally was global. Why would auras and longer auras of far away survivors be useful after emerging? There is an argument for "why not?", but even if it were changed, the primary effect and immediate value doesn't seem to alter much, or am I wrong?)
Your viewing perspective is locked into going the direction of the teleport. Meaning you get limited value from seeing Survivor's auras during the teleport itself. The main appeal of this addon was seeing the Auras of Survivors after completing the teleport since you get a full 360* view to take advantage of the Aura Reading.
Keep in mind as well this effect also worked on short teleports, so you could just place two Portals close by and quickly teleport to them to basically get BBQ without using a perk slot, which seemed to be something BHVR didnt like for whatever reason.
Furthermore, the effect isnt even that strong, but BHVR nerfed it for being "too powerful" meanwhile they keep other addons, that are significantly stronger, unchanged.
(Prior to 4.7.0 - Reduces the Power Recovery Cool-down by -2 seconds after traversing the Upside Down. Basekit for this is 10s. Hmmm… seems fair enough… bouncing between portals more in the event you take a bad portal?)
You could stack it with Unknown Egg to get a 5.5 teleport cooldown.
Unknown Egg would eventually get nerfed (and reverted back), and Eleven Soda was changed to overall have a different effect, killing these utility items. Granted, there are still better addons, I personally loved to use them to abuse the global teleport audio to bait Survivors into thinking I left when I didnt, or using it for teleport heavy hit/run playstyles with minimal downtime.
It doesnt help that the current Eleven Soda is just an objectively worse version of Leprose Lichen, since it requires Survivors to actively be working on a Generator in the same direction that you are teleporting to as opposed to it just being a generic Aura Reveal… which frankly it is just better to bring an information perk at that point.
While I dont take wrong teleports with Portals, since I have thousands of hours on Demo, they also served as new player friendly addons that encouraged them to use Portals since they wouldnt be punished as harshly for doing so, which I think is a positive thing to have for Demo.
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Hmm... fair play, pretty much all of that makes sense to me.
It's not like Demo at base it overly oppressive, and you can only get 1 of these add-on effects, not all of them... you seem to have to commit one direction, or take a halfway house of two of them... and none of these add-on combos stick out to me as being grossly unfair with the combos I can see.
Outside of the Devour Hope build ofc, all of this seems fine to me.
As I've though about numbers, having Resin at 25% (16s) or 30% (17.11s) and Webbing and 15% (14.11s) respectively and 40% (20s) or 45% (21.81s) for both results in what looks to be reasonable numbers to me. Decently strong without being unga bunga silly.
Demogorgons ~3s place and use time on a portal to block an attempted closure seems reasonable. Having a 18s window to detect an attempted close sounds plenty to me
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That’s so messed up. So they had the wrong values in the game for a decade before the update and then nerfed the already weaker wrong values. Wow
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it's super unrealistical for demo to tap his m2 every 8 seconds to see killer instinct on his portals. i say 8 seconds because the cleansing time is 12 second which is shorter then a totem cleanse. once you hear killer heartbeat. you need place a portal, look into direction and teleport which takes average of 4 seconds. this has an inherit problem as you will place random portals to teleport which you cannot destroy.
next, even when you successfully teleport, there is travel time between the teleport and survivors are able to run away from the portal so your not guaranteed to get anything from the teleport. there are add-on to increase teleport speed such as deer lung but it reduces max portal count by -2 so your left with 4 portals. you can't put enough portals on gens to get information on them and teleport to them with 4. The add-on is rubbish.
there are 8 gens on the map and 6 total portals. you need around 2-3 portals spare to aggressively teleport and 8 portals, 1 on each gen. you do not have enough portals to cover the map and aggressively teleport to gens.
that is why players use his portals only for devour hope defending because moving around the map and pressuring gens with this ability is not feasible. it does not work.
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All makes sense. Nothing I disagree with there at all. I'm only poking you both because I'm not against the change, but all I'm saying is my point would be the counter argument that would stop these changes being made 😅
While I don't have a quote to reference, given the specific list of changes Demo got, I think it's pretty likely BHVR targeted builds that allowed heavy Portal Protection of Hexes like Devour Hope, so getting them to change their mind and reverse those changes is going to require us to think about that specific issue.
As a hypothetical brute force method for example, you may be able to give bring the duration add-ons back, but add portal restrictions.
Restrictions: It is impossible to place a Portal within a specific radius of the following Props:
- within 2.5 metres of a Pallet
- within 4 metres of an Exit Gate or a Hook
- within 8 metres of another Portal
This is not a good solution but maybe totems should be added to the 4m list, so that they are awkward to place and survivors can potentially sneak around the AoE 4m range in some instances, making the build more RNG and thus less reliable. As I say a bad suggestion, but you get my point I'm sure.
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Yea. Im guessing it just wasnt a priority fix for Demogorgon since there were just more important things, especially when it's only 2% for a single addon.
Devour Hope on Demo was oppressive but in the same regard Lifeguard Whistle already got nerfed (deserved) but them nerfing the Sealing Time addons in the same patch makes zero sense when Lifeguard Whistle was the only issue.
Granted we also did have Hex: Thrill of the Hunt buffed so I guess you could maybe make the argument that "they can just manually check now since they have plenty of time," but at that point there are just far more engaging builds that dont require you to do an entire rigamarole to keep your gimmick up the entire game.
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It wasn’t even only one wrong addon description.
- Upside Down Resin:
- After: Increases the Sealing time or Portals by 20% (was 28%)
- Before: Increases the Sealing time of Portals by +40 %.
I don’t get how they have different values in their patch notes to what they have in game.
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Oh I thought you were talking about Viscous Webbing.
For Upside Down Resin, I really have no idea why there was such a massive difference between the ingame effect/description and Patch Notes. My only guess is that they could have confused it with something else when making the Patch Notes.
Keep in mind BHVR is a large team of people, there are bound to be occasional mistakes, errors, or jank in the process that sometimes slip through the cracks (or, depending on the update, like the UE5 update, be an actual flood gate of issues).
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Probably true, but it happened in the trickster design preview as well and then on almost all demo addons.
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I also don't understand why Demogorgon has so many boring Portal addons. He has three different Addons that give him undetectable after a teleport and only the iri one is good. His Deer Lung Addon got a massive nerf and became completly useless In my opinion, he needs a little addon rework that buffs his Portal addons and some of them should get a rework to work for his shred ability (applies sloppy, gives you an extra meter something like this).
Leprose Lichen is the weirdest of the nerfs since it was nerfed because it was basically like a "free map-wide BBQ" but Knight can have infinite Blood Warden and free Bamboozle with his Iridescent Company Banner because that's fine apparently. Yes, Im still salty that they nerfed Leprose Lichen.
I guess BHVR has many small teams that work on different patches/chapters and therefore, they make decisions that other teams would not do. Another good example is the Captured By The Dark Addon from Unknown: Why has it such a huge drawback despite his power isn't the strongest. Meanwhile, Singularity and Wesker have a similar addon but with another strong effect and their power is much more oppressive and gives you many different small values.
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because they got nerfed twice. the first nerf was from 40% →28% and 2nd was 28%→20%. the first nerf was when demogorgon got his add-on rework. they made rat liver base-kit, introduced barb glass+black heart than 1 week after, nerfed black heart & barb glasses only to few years later do some QOL in 2024 in clown/huntress/pig patch to revert some of the nerfs, put it base-kit and than nerf those add-on's again.
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ok whatever, they nerf play-style on devour hope. the problem is that they didn't buff his generator portal play-style that he's suppose to have.
he needs like
→ base-kit upside down reisin+thorny cleansing time/ adjust the numbers of these add-on's to be less mandatory to gain info out of portals.
→ New life guard+ mew guts base-kit for 9 portals. /rework these add-on to apply mangled & blindness for 120 second upon hitting a survivor after exiting a portal, these could be some kind of slug-demo play-style.
→ Deer lung + Rotten tripe → Should be base-kit // add-on should be reworked to grant 5% haste for 8 second and 8% haste for 8 seconds upon exiting a portal. this would help him fly out of portals, make shred more potent.
-Added new functionality: Demo can hold m2 during the teleport to destroy the portal, this works similarly to Singularity where you can auto-lock on with cameras. this allow you to destroy portals.
→ Rotten pumpkin reworked → grants +1 extra portal.
→ rat liver bonus reduced to 10%, added 40% faster opening speed base-kit.
these were the type of changes he needed to make this mechanic more relevant. the base-kit numbers he has are too poor and he cannot run 8 add-on's in 1 match to make these portals work correctly. add-on are suppose to customize strength of portals, not entirely define the power's usability.
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My point is tho, all of those addons had different stats in game before the last update and those addons didn’t match their descriptions in game and from the patch notes.
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