Feedback and Suggestions

Feedback and Suggestions

A small buff to Lightborn (for both sides)

Member Posts: 3,888
edited January 15 in Feedback and Suggestions

Wait! I know what you're gonna say!

"Lightborn is fine!", but please hear me out! I already posted this in @jesterkinds discussion, but I felt it was a good enough suggestion to warrant it's own thread.

To cut to the chase, Lightborn's hard counter nature makes it very uninteractive. Hard counters are never healthy game design, and while not strong and can't really be nerfed, it is not great that it just removes interactions completely... but we also can't make it weaker... so I propose this change to buff Lightborn for killers, but also give interactions for survivors:

Lightborn

Unlike other beasts of The Fog, you have adapted to light.

  • Grants immunity from the Blindness Effect from Flashlights, Firecrackers, Flash Grenades, and Blast Mine.
  • The Auras of Survivors who blind you by any means are revealed to you for 6/8/10 seconds.

"These monsters... they adapt! They emerge with strange new abilities." — Vigo, Vigo's Journal

What's different? Immune to Blind vs. Immune to Blindness Effect?

The wording is careful here to say the "Blindness Effect" not "blind". This would mean the survivor can still "blind" the killer (note: the aura portion now says "blind")... It would still grant the score events and the beam animations as normal… but the killer is immune to all of the above "Blindness Effects", which includes:

  • The blind texture overlay.
  • Being stunned while carrying a survivor.
  • The lunges turned into quick attacks.

Also note that this DOES NOT stop the stun from Blast Mine, as that is a separate stun from Blast Mine not linked to the Blind Effect.

What benefits are there for Killers?

A survivor blinding the killer gives them the aura read as per, so that's nice, but no change.

However the benefit is it allows the killer to act like they are blinded and continue to get value from the perk. It'd only be when an actual save occurs or if the killer uses a lunge that the jig is up… which would be a nice bait and switch that allows the Killer to get continued value from the perk, and make Lightborn actually semi-decent.

This would be so much more interesting and fun to play, as you'd want to run far enough aimlessly to look blind... without running so far you lose the survivor. This plays into DBDs mind games very nicely instead of the complete non interaction we have now...

This would also synergise with: -

  • Shadowborn
  • Hex: Two Can Play

This gives actual interactions with other perks for potential build ideas and keeps the door open for future perks, and allows Killers to actually fight flashlight bully squads effectively head on.

The need to act is also useful in making Lightborn a good teaching tool, where Killers can over time get used to how those interactions tend to go and build a genuine resistance naturally over time to no longer need Lightborn.

Are there benefits survivors?

Actually yes. This would also alleviate a lot of the annoyance for Survivors on challenges, which is a lot of people annoyance with Lightborn... even if the killer doesn't suffer the blind effect, they are still blinded. Blinding a killer carrying a survivor and not stunning them still counts... Lightborn would actually make it easier for those survivors to get their challenges done, cause the killer won't be defensive and just pick up.

Gameplaywise however, we also get some benefits. The really cool benefit is since the killer can be "blinded" as defined by the game, it now satisfies the conditions for perks involving blinding from survivors, e.g.: -

  • Champion of Light
  • Residual Manifest

This would still allow the survivor to use their perk and hinder/blind the killer, rather than Lightborn just making these dead perks. The fact they aren't hard countered means we still have meaningful interactions with Lightborn, without neutering either side.

Conclusion

This I think would make Lightborn actually healthy in its design, and one where everyone is happy... I believe we'd see all complaints about the perk die off completely (other than y'know... salt...).

It seems to me this would be the best iteration of the perk for all aspects of the game.

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Comments

  • Member Posts: 751

    Am confused honestly and I still do not see how it will be fair for survivors. To make it more fair on survivors it should be changed like pain res was, rather than having unlimited uses it should have 4 tokens and once they are gone, the killer must do things like kick gens, down and hook people to get one back.

    Just like how killer say one perk should not be countering all aura read and add on ,one perk should negating all blind perks which is taken away the option to help a teammate especially if they are being tunrneled or to protect one self.

    Do not even get me started on how plague making every heal perk worthless as well killing your altruistic emblem is poor design and needs a rework.

  • Member Posts: 3,888
    edited January 15

    one perk should negating all blind perks

    Exactly, that's why it now has the perk interactions that it doesn't before... and as I've stated a lot of the complaints against Lightborn are usually to do with challenge denial.

    Most survivors agree Lightborn is a boring weak perk that just takes away interaction with the killer, so you just crank gens instead. If Lightborn is a tangible threat you've got to be mindful of, the process of figuring it out becomes more engaging (OoO, Distortion for example can reveal it), rather than just "Oh Lightborn... that sucks... just do gens".

    Which is taken away the option to help a teammate especially if they are being tunrneled or to protect one self

    You still have pallet saves, sabos, body blocking to help a tunneled teammate, as well as all the second chance perks available to survivors as well. This is the reason Lightborn is not a good perk, it protects you from one aspect of the game, but you can still fall foul of a myriad of others.

    Like which hardcore tunnel killers running Lightborn are you referring to here? You almost never see a serious Blight or Nurse with Lightborn, something this change wouldn't change, because serious comp style players aren't gonna pretend to be blinded, nor run Lightborn to secure hooks when they have the power to slug anyone who tries.

    To make it more fair on survivors it should be changed like pain res was, rather than having unlimited uses it should have 4 tokens and once they are gone, the killer must do things like kick gens, down and hook people to get one back.

    Not that I necessarily think that's a bad idea, but your suggestion has issues.

    1. Lightborn isn't a strong perk, experienced killers don't need Lightborn because there are other mechanisms to combat it, and its generally perceived as playimg a perk slot down. So you need to give a killer a reason to take it.
    2. How many tokens do you give it for it to be useful, but not fall foul of the above point? It either has too many tokens for it not to matter anyway, or not enough to make the perk worth taking.
    3. Your recovery condition (hooks) is dependant on the very thing the perk is supposed to do for you... What is Lightborns purpose? To secure hooks. What do you need to use Lightborn? Hooks...
    4. Your alternative recovery condition of kicking gens runs foul for point 2... it's an easy condition to satisfy, so the downside is moot anyway. You'll still likely have more tokens than the survivor can realistically burn through.

    Lightborn is not a serious competitive perk, and this small tweak doesn't make it suddenly competitive. It is better in this version, but it still not impressively strong, and it addresses most of the other annoying points about the perk.

  • Member Posts: 751
    edited January 15

    Alright I respect your points and listen this is not directly to you but to your fellow killer mains, you suggest body blocking, sabo saves and pallets saves but they complain about it then say tha is why they resort to slugging. Or flashbangs countering look ups is unfair...its like we cant win either way.

    It why I suggest my idea but thanks you always are postive and fair to discuss things with and I am grateful and and respect you for your fair opinions friend. You also clear up my confusion.

    Post edited by buggybug on
  • Member Posts: 3,888
    edited January 15

    All good mate!

    I always appreciate a well constructed opposing point of view, it forces you to reassess your position and consider points you may have missed... even if it still results in reaching the same conclusion, the argument becomes better informed... sometimes I have to admit I'm completely wrong and reassess my stance entirely 😁😁😁

    I must agree with you, I think the slug era we're in now is kinda silly. I don't believe killers are any better off slugging excessively than killers are playing for hooks in vast majority of scenarios. There are killers that can effectively slug to that degree to win games... but they also happen to be the killers that are strong and mobile enough they can still win comfortably while playing for hooks and gen pressure as well. They're still plenty strong enough to deal with all these supposed "overpowered" perks that activate off hook, and the hook extension timer. Survivors lose out on strong perks off hook sure, but killers also lose out on strong perks from hooking as well (Pain Res, Grim Embrace, DMS, BBQ and Chilli), so the argument is crap to my mind.

    Someone like Bubba or Deathslinger or Myers for example isn't gonna enhance their performance trying to slug the whole team over hooking... it'd be embarrassing to watch them try. To my mind a lot of this hard slugging nowadays is just being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk.

    In regards to getting mad about sabos, pallet saves and body blocks are all fair game to my mind, especially sabo and body blocks... rarely do you lose to one of those without having another hook nearby and/or getting at least an injury off it. If a survivor pulls off a successful sabo play in modern DBD its kinda "damn... well played" to my mind. Just like killers are not fodder for survivors, survivors are not fodder for killers either. You should expect a fight.

    Flashbangs are a little more nuanced in their issues... I think the only issues with flashbangs is

    • Being able to drop them inside the killers model as they pick up is bullshit, the skill is to drop in front of the killer, and if they've picked up against a wall, that should mean they can pick up safely.
    • It being countered by looking up I think is fine, but the issue I'm seeing right now is the audio for flashbangs is bugged right now, where you can miss the audio cue completely... which is also unfair.

    But yeah, I feel you, both sides have their extremes... and some people just see thinga purely from one perspective and often want to have their cake and eat it... 😅

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