Feedback and Suggestions

Feedback and Suggestions

A Boil Over suggestion... Slower Hook Time?

Member Posts: 3,888
edited January 19 in Feedback and Suggestions

So here is an idea I thought I'd run past you guys in the forums...

Boil Over is a perk I fundamentally dislike for numerous reasons: -

  • Survivor: It rarely works, 95% of games the perk does literally nothing.
  • Both sides: It's prone to being and often is exploited to make a survivor unhookable on certain maps, so some players will ise this fact to just try to troll the killer all game instead of trying to win.
  • Both sides: Often not rewarded/overcome as a result of player skill, but hook spawn RNG.
  • Killer: Often used by bully squads with offerings to make already annoying strategies even worse.
  • Killer: Far more cumbersome to deal with on console.
  • Killer: Generally obnoxious, effect feels bad, and is completely rage inducing on the rare occasions it actual works, especially when facing any of the above problems.

A potential idea: Boil Over

You are a battler and you do everything to fight and hinder their efforts, even on your last legs.

While being carried by the Killer, the following effects apply:

  • Increases the strength of the Struggle Effects on the Killer from your Wiggling by 60/70/80 %.
  • Suppresses the ability of the Killer to read the Auras of all Hooks within 16 metres.
  • Wiggle progress is 33% slower.
  • The killer is hindered by 70%, reducing based on current wiggle progress. EDIT: doesn't work as survivor can just not wiggle, would have to be a flat acceleration over the duration.

"Buck and Wild, Swing to be free, Your hands just can't keep ahold of me." — Kate Denson's "Boil Over"

What does this mean?

The concept is, like a bucking bronco, we are holding on as long as we possibly can, and slowing down the killer from reaching the hook. Since we often can't wiggle off anyway without outside help (or exploiting maps where there is 0 counter, which shouldn't be a thing), we're instead getting value from other means.

Now running the math, Boil Over doesn't really change how far the killer can carry you, so what's the point?

Normal carry = 3.68m/s × 16s = 58.8m

Boil Over carry = (1.104m/s × 24s)+(½ × 0.1073333333m/s² × 24s²) = 57.408m

Basically the idea is it makes it take 33% longer for the killer to reach the hook... we take longer to wiggle out, but we also slow the killer down while we do it. This obviously has advantages for (smart) sabotage and body block plays, but even without that, it simply takes longer for the killer to hook survivors, since they start off slow and slowly gain movement as the wiggle bar progresses.

This gives guaranteed value in regards to the fact we cost the killer extra time as they try to hook us, and in the case of trying to bully, it is much more reasonable to see a sabo attempt with this Boil Over and switch to go for a different hook, since your carry distance isntvreally changed from base.

What about perk interactions?

Agitation normal = 4.342m/s × 16s = 69.478m

Agitation + Boil Over = (1.30272×24) + (0.5×(2.37728÷24)×24²) = 59.792m

Breakout normal = 3.68 × (16 × 0.75) = 45.16m

Breakout + Boil Over = (1.104×19.2) + (0.5×(2.576÷19.2)×19.2²) = 45.926m

Iron Grasp normal = 3.68 × (16 × 1.12) = 65.946m

Iron Grasp + Boil Over = (1.104 × 29.091) + (0.5×(2.576÷29.091) × 29.091²) = 69.586m

All of these look sensible to me. Agitation is countered by Boil Over, and Iron Grasp is actually buffed as yej counter to Boil Over.

Does this sound more annoying?

A nicer part of this is the slower movement speed will make the initial kick of each wiggle not as severe, but the slow will be a lot worse. This would make doorways though far less irritating early on, which is usually where the irritation of Boil Over lies, and of course it now becomes reasonably consistent in its value on all platforms, rather than doing mostly nothing to PC players, and being far more annoying to console players.

Conclusion

Now admittedly it makes Boil Over rather niche... but costing the killer between 6-8s per hook could be the difference between a Pain Res hitting a key gen or not, and I'd actually consider this perk rather than boycotting it for being the troll perk it is now.

Post edited by UndeddJester on

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Comments

  • Member Posts: 9,513

    boil over works fine. I'd say it is little on weaker side. i'd buff boil over to increase wiggle time speed by 10%. To complement the change, I would increase Break out distance from 8 meters to 16 meters.

  • Member Posts: 3,888
    edited January 18

    I suppose that would definitely be a case of forcing the killer to slug I guess. Definitely ain't ever picking that up.

    The unhookable map locations get even worse, I suppose all you can do is permanently take sac wards and if you do wind up on such a map, perma slug the boil over player and tunnel out anyone not running it, then bleed the Boil Over user to death.

  • Member Posts: 9,513

    Like i said, i think the issue with slugging is that survivor can rush all 5 generators faster than the killer can bleed survivors out. that is why whenever someone faces boil over player or any type of sabotage/force killer slug gameplay, it's always complained about on killer side. in fact, in very first iteration of dbd. Jake used to have a perk called saboteur.

    The perk allowed you to break every single hook on the map permanently. the funny part is. we're in 2024-2025 and well known players like tru3 are now playing as if Old Saboteur exists. They're just slugging everyone. Tru3 does try to hook people and even with 75% of his downs being slugs, he still kills people faster by hooking 1 person than bleeding out.

    if that doesn't show that killing people through slugging is unviable, i am not sure what does. vs less skilled survivors, downing people on the floor is very good game-delay but the more experienced survivors can rush gens efficiency while picking people up. so you kinda don't get much game-delay while not really progressing your objective.

    I am not sure how BVHR makes killer gain kills through slugging more reliable/more risky for survivor to get slugged but I do not think Boil over is at fault.

  • Member Posts: 72

    No no no we needcthe olllllllld boil over back.

  • Member Posts: 292
    edited January 18


    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,3344:43PM

    Like i said, i think the issue with slugging is that survivor can rush all 5 generators faster than the killer can bleed survivors out. that is why whenever someone faces boil over player or any type of sabotage/force killer slug gameplay, it's always complained about on killer side. in fact, in very first iteration of dbd. Jake used to have a perk called saboteur.

    The perk allowed you to break every single hook on the map permanently. the funny part is. we're in 2024-2025 and well known players like tru3 are now playing as if Old Saboteur exists. They're just slugging everyone. Tru3 does try to hook people and even with 75% of his downs being slugs, he still kills people faster by hooking 1 person than bleeding out.

    if that doesn't show that killing people through slugging is unviable, i am not sure what does. vs less skilled survivors, downing people on the floor is very good game-delay but the more experienced survivors can rush gens efficiency while picking people up. so you kinda don't get much game-delay while not really progressing your objective.

    I am not sure how BVHR makes killer gain kills through slugging more reliable/more risky for survivor to get slugged but I do not think Boil over is at fault.

    FlagQuoteVote Up


    Against slugging the only counter is SWFs solos its mostly a lost cause.

  • Member Posts: 3,888
    edited January 19

    I'm not really getting your logic here... your assessment here is spot on that slugging is not an effective means of winning the game.

    I said in my own post that Boil Over doesn't work to prevent hooks most of the time; the changes you've proposed are to make it so that it is more effective at preventing hooks and also makes all the most frustrating unsatisfactory elements of the perk even more prominent: -

    • The use of it to grief rather than try to win
    • The fact it's governed by RNG
    • It significant more frustrating effect for console

    You summarise all the issues of slugging perfectly, then advocate to make an already obnoxious perk even more obnoxious to force players to do it?

    I don't get it... 🤨🤨🤨

    Though thinking about it, my suggestion doesn't work, cause what if a survivor doesn't wiggle? The killer remains slowed at 70%.

    Idea needs more thought, but probably not the way anyway

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