Feedback and Suggestions
Feedback and Suggestions
The Freddy Buffs were a mistake
This is not a post about Freddy being OP I don't think he is. This is a post about BHVR not understanding what a fun gameplay loop is and buffing a killer just to say they did.
Literally the number one thing people hate in this game is speed differentials. People hated it with clown, they hated it with Merchant, it's the one thing about Wesker people don't particularly like which is why it was nerfed so why on earth did BHVR make ANOTHER killer that all they do is slow you down? Trying to loop a Freddy feels awful now because you get hit with a snare that can go through objects and you are basically guaranteed to get hit, you don't even feel like you got outplayed compared to say facing an Unknown that has to do trick shots to get hits half the time with a status effect that can be cleansed mid chase to Freddy which gets a hit off hitting one reasonably easy to hit projectile and it just doesn't seem right. There has to be a way to rework Freddy that actually makes him feel fun to go against because we're back to Forever Freddy levels of dull with the character.
I can't imagine people playing Freddy find it that fun either. Like even in the best case scenario it's just find survivor, snare at a loop and hit them before they get to the pallet and then do it again. I can't imagine there's anything that cool or skill expressive you can do with the character.
Comments
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Before the buff, I used to play him quite frequently. Now that he has been buffed, I am enjoying him even more. Stop trying make fun, which is something subjective, generalized. Some characters are supposed to be niche, and that's fine, every multiplayer game has those, otherwise BHVR will just keep releasing Huntress and Pyramid Head clones.
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I like playing against new Freddy tbh. To me he’s more interactive. You can dodge snares and it’s interesting to watch how he will deploy them and react. He’s has strong anti-loop, good map pressure, and built in slowdown with the dream world when survs are injured. Playing against Freddy now makes you have to manage more things at once which imo is more fun than his old design.
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I'm a Hag/Twins main, believe me I'm the last person that wants BHVR to stop releasing the same killer over and over because original killers are awesome but that's my point. Freddy is literally just Clown and SM all over again, it's not really niche to be a killer where their power is slow the survivor down we already have that. It's kinda weird to me that we have a killer that supposedly brings survivors to a completely different world but that world is largely just cosmetic and just means Freddy can start doing his clown impression.
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SM didn't use to have slowdown. Her old kit was about map control unlike any other killer before, and as such, she was reworked because survivors found her boring. Freddy also didn't use to have slowdown, he was also reworked because he was both deemed weak and boring.
Also, Hag and Twins are the second and third killer I play the most, so we both know how much fun survivor players think they are. I have been in the game since Legion released, and believe me when I say that the only killers that never got an uproar being called boring are Nemesis, Demogorgon, Billy, and Xenomorph.
Have you noticed how lately almost every killer has a projectile ability? Freddy got a projectile, Vecna, and Dracula also have projectiles. Even a freaking dog became a projectile. BHVR is just too scared to make something different, because whenever they do it, people complain. SM and Knight are prime examples. Fun should not be a metric to decide whether to rework a character.
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I suppose I'm using fun as shorthand for being interactive. Freddy I don't think is interactive because either they hit you with the snare and after you're hit there's not really anything you can do because you become glacial or he misses and then he's back to being sharp hand joe until he gets his power back.
Which I don't mind that as far as playing them goes that Freddy isn't for me and I'm 100% okay with that not every killer is going to be but playing against them is still a slog. Like I don't like playing Huntress or Wesker at all but playing against them is fine because dodging them at least has some interactivity that usually always feels fair. But Freddy you get hit with a snare which arn't that hard to hit and it's just not fun waiting to get hit because there isn't much you can do and I think that's a failure of game design. Singularity can be a little BS in chase too if you don't have an EMP but at least I can appreciate the complexity of how much is happening with the pods, the infection, how much is going on with overclock it doesn't always feel fair but it is an interesting design and I can appreciate that. With Freddy he's committed the sin of being both not really interactive and also ridiculously simple and I think that's what bothers me about him.
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""There's not much you can do." Just pre-drop the pallet and play for the 50/50, same thing against the Clown, or use one of the 5 clocks on the map to become immune to his power and he won't be able to do anything.
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Freddy feels extremely dynamic now, playing as him is ultra fun now and playing against him I also find fun. I think every Killer should have those kind of different managements during the game for Survivors as well as more abilities for the Killer to use. That's also why Dracula and Vecna are liked because they share that design.
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Who cares? Speed differential, schmeed differential. You seriously can't be arguing that a killer slowing survivors down, or being fast/slow themselves, is bad design. That would implicate almost every killer in the game. I'm for standardizing all killers to 115%, so that it's 1 less complication when it comes to balancing. And I'd also like to see a game state where killers don't have to rely on "fast fast fast" perks or killers to compete, which they do now. But what you're suggesting is so broad sweeping that you'd almost have to make a new game for it.
If killers are never able to catch good survivors at loops without them screwing up, which is pretty much the case now, the killer role becomes unviable outside of a select few (Nurse, Blight, Spirit). Notice that all of those killers are strong because they can play the catch-up game with survivors, getting to them before they can get to somewhere safe/the next safe place. At the end of the day, killers who go a different direction than them are more interesting, because there's more room for counterplay, for both sides preferably, not just survivors.
You may think them dull, but I think killers being strong enough to get you, but you being knowledgeable enough to waste as much time as possible, is what makes this game great, regardless of if slowdown is involved in the gameplay loop. Assuming there is something inherently wrong with 1 killer's gameplay loop, don't y'all want to go against multiple different strong killers, instead of just 1? Why do we always have to shout down the lastest decent killer? It's more rewarding to have to keep your counterplay practiced and updated across multiple killers, not just a handful.
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Preach.
I'm so sick of chase being the only thing allowed to exist. We need more trap killers. We need more macro-focused and area denial killers (Skull Merchant shouldn't have been changed into a chase killer). We don't need 30+ variations of Blight, Billy, or whatever chase killer survivors are not currently raging about.
It's wild because chase killers are the most anti-interaction killers in the game because they promote non-interaction (sorry, but occasionally dodging a dash is not interaction), yet nobody seems to want to admit that and instead declare the most interactive killers in the game "boring," "unfun," and "uninteractive." I feel like I'm being gaslit every time someone tries to argue that Blight is interactive when he is literally all about not interacting with him.
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I am because that's not interesting, it's the same reason I don't find clown or blight interesting to play against. Because there's nothing interesting about "I win because my numbers are way better than yours" mechanically speaking. Also it doesn't implicate that many killers tbh? Clown, SM, Freddy, Blight, Chucky, Wesker, Billy and you could argue Oni but I think they're a little more complicated than that and that's really it.
Also I'm not arguing against killers being strong like I even said at the beginning of the post this is not a thread about power level it's about power design. Plague is strong but is infinitely more interesting because you have to decide if you're in a cleanse or not cleanse situation, Spirit is strong but guessing her pathing and mind gaming her is fun because there's actual thought being put into looping her. Singularity is strong but they're manageable if you juggle EMPs correctly. Like you can have strong killers and still have them be interesting to go against but losing to just numbers is never going to be interesting to me. You asked if I want different multiple strong killers to go against and yes that is absolutely what I want but I want those killers to do unique things instead of just "I make you slow" or "I'm very fast" because we've done that like 8 times now.
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freddy got nerfed originally because survivor players disliked his gameplay.
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To me, Freddy isn't strong.
Pallets are easy to work around as long as you keep yourself awake and you can easily just throw them unless he has the Paint Thinner add-on where you're revealed and he can teleport to you.
I just go around dropping them when I'm awake to render the pallets useless and to help other people in chase, as he can easily swap between pallets and dream snares.
His dream snares are easy to avoid, especially if you're at a tile that he can't easily see over. All it does is hinder you and as long as you're good at looping, it's fine.
I honestly think his best add-ons are Paint Thinner and Red Paint Brush, but that's just my opinion from playing him a little as I wanted to see how different he was from his past version. I actually prefer his old dream snares, as I said, his new ones are harder to hit and requires more skill.
The only thing that's annoying is the whole teleport when healing, but again, that's easily something a survivor can work around as you can use any clock on the map. Teleporting to a gen is fine, just let go, and walk away from the gen - he won't know you're there and just get back on the gen.
Sometimes when I'm asleep and doing a gen, I'll stay asleep and continue doing the gen instead of repeatedly waking up like some survivors do. He's stronger than what he was, but he isn't undefeatable.
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The best part on the new Freddy is:
He is more interactive!
You are doing much more stuff in the game. Placing Pallets, destroying your Dream Pallets, Shooting around, more teleports.1 -
Exactly, he is more interactive and "fun" to play in a way.
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Indeed.
Is he an S- or A-Tier-Killer? Definitely noHe is now - for me - a mid-tier killer and thats perfectly fine, as long as you have fun and actually… getting Dream Pallet-Rupture hits (Unicorn Block is doing so good) is exciting.
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this is how I feel! We needed something good for a horror icon like Freddy and I believe BHVR delivered.
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The reworked Freddy is still early in the day, so it's not surprising that his understanding is low.
Post edited by ponzukun on1 -
He's a really basic m1 killer with slight stealth and chase potential, but that's exactly what I like about him. For me he's the best m1 killer I can play now if I just want play a killer that's basic m1 without crazy mechanics, he's also okay strong AND he feels (outside of holding the button of his teleport) really fast which I like.
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I don't know how I'd rank him personally, but I do believe he has much more mobility making him more accessible to people at least.
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I really really really love Dream Pallet Rupture-Hits. They are so entertaining. Unicorn-Block for the win! 😍
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The problem with this mindset is the fundamentals we are playing with... DBD is not a true horror game. It's closer to a Horror-themed thriller. The bright maps, bright color outfits, and 2-note gameplay style give way to that idea imo. Survivors have 2 options: hold a button down or run from killer. Simply hiding all game has been deemed "rat" behavior so generally speaking it's not the best game play style given the general idea you should share hook stages as a team.
Trap killers aren't tonally in line with how people typically play the game and it's macro usage would be weird seeing as a trap or area denier as you suggested REQUIRE communication as we are now adding in more pure strategy elements which will also remove the horror aspect. The game doesnt have a voice chat or ping system for a reason. Can't be afraid when my team and I are running 40m dashes repeatedly to a gen over and over like old skull merchant required. Solo que players dont want to be in a chase and have that come to an abrupt halt because of a trap they couldnt see.
I understand your nuance about "interaction" but it's truly just how you want to use the word. Interacting with Blight and Interacting with SM are different but are still forms of interaction.
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