http://dbd.game/killswitch
My Side Versus Yours?
Do you feel like people too often focus on improvements of their favorite thing to play as "Killer or Survivor" and nerfing whatever they dont like playing against and buffing stuff to make it overpowered rather than the focus of fun and improvement of the game as a whole or do you feel as if people are being reasonable about the arguements they give for the game? This isn't targeted towards any side Im just curious on what you guys think.
Answers
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Try not to get too hostile while replying to this if you do.
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I call for nerfs and buffs for both sides depending if I feel it's warranted. I play 60% killer and 40% survivor. I feel m1 killera with no map traversal need some serious buffs, and I feel nurse and blight needs to be nerfed. The jury is still out on the new killer, but I really do not like the game focusing new killers on all having the ability to dash in some way (doggy counts for the houndmaster). I also feel gens completed way too fast, but I also feel there needs to be a way to eliminate tunneling early in a match even if it means teleporting the unhooked person to a random distant location. It's just not fun to get tunneling out within minutes ofbthe match starting. I also feel that BHVR needs to stop having any new survivor have some sort of gen rushing perk - they already go by way too fast.
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It's a good mixture of both.
There are people in both camps that want to have their cake and eat it too, and some who realize it's give & take. DBD, and other assym's, throw a curveball into the mix when it comes to creating and maintaining a game. People are more consciously used to symmetrical games or single player, so when you have to find balance or equal value comparing apples versus oranges, you have your work cut out for you.
There are the easy "us v. them" arguments like people saying getting rid of SWF entirely (which would kill the game), and you have people that try to come up with solutions to bring a better quality of life without harming their opponent like those that propose power/perk tweaks down to the cool down time.
I, myself, focus on core game things like hit boxes, hit detection, server reliability, etc., more than you'll ever see me say "NERF GRIM EMBRACE"
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Yes, but it's not a phenomenon unique to this community. Tribalism goes hand in hand with being human, and it takes a significant amount of conscious effort or a specific type of personality to actively, internally combat it. And even more to communicate your tribe-divorced ideas in a way that's coherent and leaves an impression on people.
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DBD has the most tribal community out of any game I play
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I think DbD community comes as the second worse. The worst being LoL community
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DBD community is very stuck in this whole "us vs them" mindset imo. You can see that every time a new chapter comes out.
I've seen so many comments in this forum the last 2 days that go: kaneki is too strong (which btw almost everyone agrees with be it killer or surv main) , so this game is clearly killer sided so killers suck, which is what I always said.
Same thing happened when the reworked boil over or corrective action came out: this entire forum basically went: "this perk is too strong therefore the entire game is and always has been survivor sided and survivors suck which is what I always said"
As long as there is mains in this game there will always be sides and sides don't care about balance
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I agree with you. There is two problems:
Those who mostly play killer versus those who play mostly survivor AND
Those who play casually versus those who play competitively.
The problem is when you look through these positions ( casual killers vs competitive survivors; competitive killers vs casual survivors ) you create a situation where "Fair" and "balanced" can go way too far and not reach a consensus.
There should be more incentives to play both sides DEEPLY (not just doing dailys, but understanding the core mechanics of each side), so people can have a better view on the issues of this game and a more fair opinion.
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I ask for nerfs and buffs both sides, but I see a lot more complaints about calling for the other side to be nerfed from Survivor side these days. I play both sides, but currently a bit more Survivor (I enjoy Killer more, always have, this is why I call myself a Killer Main - Survivor was never my favored role, I only play it because it's frankly less mental work and I can just focus on doing as much as possible for points).
Generally speaking? I think there's a reason we see more Surv complaints. Frankly two reasons:
One, this is the side of the game that had a little more power for a very long time, though not anymore, and is naturally the victim role, so I think Survivor mains feel obligated to want that control back or to feel like the hero of a round to the Killer's villain. There's a very real fantasy element in being able to best a big strong Killer, and looping strength is part of that. That's why we see complaints maps are too small, perks are too weak, Killers need nerfs. But, there have been legitimate complaints that some Killers have been buffed and maps have gotten too hard to use loops on, or that some Killers are problematic and unfun or unbalanced. See Skull Merchant, Xeno's glitched tail on release, or release Chucky for example, all Killers that really did need to be looked at.
Two, there's a LOT more Survivor Mains than Killer Mains out there, some 4x as many, and so their voices tend to get elevated. That's been a perennial issue actually.In general I think Killer is in a good spot with some exceptions that really need some buffs or nerfs. I overall think Survivor could use buffs to some things mostly - but not without balancing some problematic bits of their kit, specifically certain toolboxes and gen progression. I would like their chase to become stronger and would like to see more stuff that focuses on being clever with their resources, NOT more generator progression stuff - they frankly have enough of it and it's maybe a little overkill for some Killers in the weaker half of the roster.
Frankly, all these complaints both sides come from one very simple issue: Rounds are too fast for humans to feel comfy in. This is because generators have issues, they're either too fast or too slow. There should not be in 2025 a case where multiple Gens are popping in under a minute or within one chase, nor should there be a case where gens are so locked down someone is dead at 5 or 4 gens. The game needs to have a tug of war element and as the roster and perks list increases, the ways that one side can mess with the other and push games even more ridiculously fast increases. Now that tunnelling and stuff is going the way of the dodo, I fear many casual or weak Killer players will either load up on hardcore perks or simply quit the game entirely, while Survivors - fed up with Killers they see as too strong to best - will also leave. That's how games die.
What we need is some sort of way to monitor or cap both regression and progression. But I get downvoted every time I say that, so what do I know? I've only been playing since 2018.-1 -
I really agree with all of this. IMHO the game desperately needs a more casual spirit and more casual adjustments, more ways to win a round and encourage getting good at looping or with a Killer, more rewards for simply trying your best even if you lose the round, etc.
I personally never feel bad if I lose but still make progress on stuff, but I definitely feel bad when it's a curbstomp several rounds in a row. I also feel bad when I go in casual but get a comp opponent. Those possibilities simply have got to be eliminated. I don't know how we'd do it, but it needs to be done. I think we should start by relaxing MMR except for the kiddie pool, and finding some way to give more wincons. Changing how points get calculated and thus pips are calculated would do wonders for that. My suggestion:
- Wincons: 3-4k, at least 5-8 hooks, Escape through gate, Escape through hatch, perform really well in one of the categories. Add a tie category for 2k/draw, where it's a "win" for both sides (but a loss of MMR).
- Points don't pip you, participation does. Points now only determine how much BP you get end of the round, to a maximum of 40k unless there's an event on where you can get more.
- No Pip: You DCed, gave up on hook, Abandoned the round, or otherwise forfeited or left the round early. No Penalty unless it's a DC before 10 minutes have elapsed.
- One Pip: You played the round through to the end, whether you won or lost. That's it, that's all. You just finished and played the round to the end of your character's time in it, be that all the way through or until you die.
- Two Pips: You finished the round and you fulfulled one of the wincons above.
Then IDK… make a ranked mode for people who want that and remove all the safety checks in it like the kick limit, antitunnel, anticamp, etc. - ranked is where anything goes and is strategic, that way if you really wanna genrush or tunnel you can do it there, but if you just wanna play you can go to the normal mode. Ranked Mode would have special prizes like badges, banners, shards, or extra BP if you want it. Ranked would have its own separate grading system. Grades would be how much you played and would only be used for the original mode.1 -
Just to clarify doesn't mean I personally think either
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I don’t think anyone has wrong opinions for the most part on either side, I think the full truth comes when it’s all pieced together. I think you can “kit up” on either side but it will only carry you so far unless you have tons of knowledge on everything else. Theres stuff you can use, There’s skill, and game sense.
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I think everyone naturally has some bias toward what they enjoy playing, but what matters is recognizing that bias and not letting it completely cloud your judgment. Most people in the community are passionate and genuinely want the game to improve, but there are still those that seems more interested in seeing the other role suffer rather than pushing for a healthier game overall. Thankfully they are in the minority, and are typically easy to spot if operating in bad faith as they tend to straight up insult or demean someone else.
I don’t think this is unique to DBD—it’s more of a people problem. But i think BHVR could ease some of the tension by being more transparent. Sharing stats like defined win conditions, kill rates by MMR bracket, solo vs SWF performance, DC percentages, and even after match stats (how long you spent on gens, in chase, etc) would clear up so many arguments/misinformation. People still fight over whether the game is casual or competitive, and that’s a question BHVR could easily clarify imo.
From what information we do have, the stats show the game is relatively balanced from the devs perspective, which means two things, but both those things are very controversial/hot topics and I think are the source of alot of disagreements. More depth to that info would do the whole community good, I feel.
So yeah, I do think a lot of players want what’s best for their "side", but I also think most people care about the overall health of the game too. BHVR being clearer and giving us tools to understand the game better would go a long way toward getting everyone on the same page, and a little more understanding for the other role as well as their own.
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These days it feels like it's us vs the devs
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Absolutely, the us vs them mentality is the biggest issue in this community. It's so ingrained in the community's discourse that sometimes it will even slip in the most civilized conversations.
And not to mention whataboutism, which oftentimes serves as both the weapon and shield of those who cannot see past us vs them. You'll rarely see any DBD debate where people are discussing something they think needs changes and no one brings up something else entirely, solely because it affects the opposite role.
You can even find examples in these forums recent threads, lol.
"Haddonfield needs more pallets, it's full of dead zones" "But what about The Game/Eyrie/Springwood"
"Survivors get very little bloodpoints from the event" "Well but killers have nothing to interact with in the event which is worse"
"The gen speeds in the event are crazy" "Oh but what about the 10 consecutive Kaneki players who tunnel and camp"
"Many killer perks and powers don't work in blood gens" "Well survivors can't bring genrushing perks or toolboxes either"
It's kinda exhausting lol. And the worst part is that most times both sides are making fair points, but they seem to think that they nullify the other's person point instead of like, adding to it and to how awful the current state of the game currently is.
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I think a problem is that devs have to balance with competitive/sweaty players in mind and casual players.
A killer might end up complaining that survivor perks are too powerful and that "gen rushing" is a problem when killing all survivors is not what determines a rank up. So it depends on whether that person just sees a win as crushing the competition or just learning to accept that you can't catch all mice while doing your best.
A killer might also complain that killers are too weak simply because a team of survivors are playing perfectly. And the killer feels like they are relying on survivor's "mistakes".
A survivor on the other hand might feel like a killer is too op because they are either casual or just want ease of difficulty.
A survivor might also complain because full fledged effort still leads to a defeat.
So on one side you have the competitive/sweaty group of players that want an e-sport out of the game or they want to win more easily.
And a casual group of players that just want to have a fun honest game devoid of exploits, cheese tech, desperation for a win.
The good answer to solving balancing issues. Stop sweating, learn to take losses, stop getting mad over defeats and blaming it on something, and learn to enjoy gameplay and not just winning.
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yes, this does happen too often. The reason is that that there are a lot of people who only play one side and never play the other. They have zero experience with the other side they are complaining about, but yet they are very sure that they know what they are talking about regarding the other side.
95% of the “us vs them” posts and comments would go away if people bothered to play both sides.0 -
I mean people will focus on what bothers them. If you play mostly survivor you're going to notice and advocate for things that will help improve the survivor experience. Same thing if you mostly play killer. More specifically you'll focus on issues impacting the killers you play. It's just kinda natural.
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