Slugging
Answers
-
Recovery should not require a button press. As long as you're not actively crawling (and you don't have Tenacity) the recovery meter should fill automatically. There's never any reason NOT to recover (unless you're trolling) so why even make that an option?
That would go a long way towards helping the slugging situation. I can't count how many times I COULD have picked someone up, but their recovery is still at 0.
0 -
This sounds totally reasonable. I agree.
0 -
Im not sure what this conversation is for...
You've said you are open to changing your mind but I'm not sure that is actually the case because you're not an unbiased bystander in the conversation. You've come to enjoy and utilize the slugging option in your playstyle, so I'd imagine you're not going to just stop doing that because someone on here gives you a good argument for why people don't like it or why its bad. You already know people don't like it and continue to do it so the explanation wont be the difference maker - so what is the intended outcome here?
Firstly, you want to discuss slugging but have prematurely omitted instances of slugging that would be used as reasoning. Why? They also count as slugging.
Even without hatch and 4-man slug, it can be argued very annoying playstyle. Onryo - who I'm assuming is the character play like this on - is a habitual slugger. The play style that accompanies slugging is often like trying to turn DBD into a chess match which is actually very boring and/or annoying. Onryos and Twins do this quite a bit with hit and run play styles. Without getting too granular, hit and run play styles are not fun especially in solo que. It's abusing the fact the survivors cannot effectively communicate their whereabouts so they either run around the map or they decide to just do gens injured. That's exactly what you want. It snowballs again and again. Onryo plays for increasing condemned and Twins abuse Victor's downing efficiency.
-1 -
There's quite a few misunderstandings of my point and what I'm saying here.
"You've said you are open to changing your mind but I'm not sure that is actually the case because you're not an unbiased bystander in the conversation. "
You're misusing the word bias. Bias is an "unfair" prejudice against something. Unfair wouldn't apply here because it would imply there's rational/logical evidence supporting the opposite of my view point that I'm ignoring. I'm not. I'm also actively asking for any rational/logical points I may have missed in order to change my view point. I've actually demonstrated the complete opposite of bias.
"You've come to enjoy and utilize the slugging option in your playstyle, so I'd imagine you're not going to just stop doing that because someone on here gives you a good argument for why people don't like it or why its bad. You already know people don't like it and continue to do it so the explanation wont be the difference maker - so what is the intended outcome here? "
If you read my full original post I never said my intention or goal was stopping, that is not the point of this post. The point was not to change what I do, the point as stated was to try to understand the point of view of where people are coming from. IE trying to be open minded to see if my opinion is wrong.
"Firstly, you want to discuss slugging but have prematurely omitted instances of slugging that would be used as reasoning. Why? They also count as slugging. "
Because the conversation is not about slugging as an absolute. The conversation is about certain types of slugging. I agree with most people about those other exceptions, my questions are on the other scenarios that people also call toxic/boring/ect, that I disagree on.
"Even without hatch and 4-man slug, it can be argued very annoying playstyle"
This goes back to my original point. WHY? All people keep saying is it's toxic/boring/annoying, but do not give me a rational/logical reasoning for why it is or what makes it "fill in the blank". That is the core point of this post. I personally can not think of an answer that fits this, so I'm here asking to see if I can find one I haven't thought of.
"Onryo - who I'm assuming is the character play like this on - is a habitual slugger. "
It's not. I don't play a slug play style on Onryo. Who I'm currently experimenting with it on is Knight.
"The play style that accompanies slugging is often like trying to turn DBD into a chess match which is actually very boring and/or annoying. "
Why is that boring? This description as both killer and survivor sounds fun to me, I enjoy chess.
"Onryos and Twins do this quite a bit with hit and run play styles. Without getting too granular, hit and run play styles are not fun especially in solo que. It's abusing the fact the survivors cannot effectively communicate their whereabouts so they either run around the map or they decide to just do gens injured."
Why is it not fun? Abusing is an interesting word choice. To me that implies "unfair" or like "taking advantage of". No communication is what the game is balanced around and intended. I would expect someone to play assuming they have a lack of communication. Are you saying we should assume every match is a 4 man swf on coms? I don't think you want that because now you'd be implying every killer should be entering the match ready to sweat off and tunnel out as the start, we don't want that.
"It snowballs again and again. Onryo plays for increasing condemned and Twins abuse Victor's downing efficiency. "
You describe this as if they're doing something they shouldn't be or unintended game play. That's how they work. That's what they're supposed to be doing. It's not "abuse". It's playing to their strengths and as intended.
0 -
Good luck
1 -
You're misusing the word bias. Bias is an "unfair" prejudice against something. Unfair wouldn't apply here because it would imply there's rational/logical evidence supporting the opposite of my view point that I'm ignoring. I'm not. I'm also actively asking for any rational/logical points I may have missed in order to change my view point. I've actually demonstrated the complete opposite of bias.
No I am not misusing and that is not true. I'm sure you referenced the definition for this response, but it states:
bias - prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.
It can be considered unfair but the key defining feature is in the first clause that only requires you have prejudice for or against something. You stated you slug (at least sometimes) as a play style so obviously you would be biased as you fall in the group that is "for" slugging. Seeking out other arguments does not invalidate bias. There are plenty of political podcasts, talk shows, etc, that feature opposing view points but that doesn't change the viewpoint of the host or network it is on.
If you read my full original post I never said my intention or goal was stopping, that is not the point of this post. The point was not to change what I do, the point as stated was to try to understand the point of view of where people are coming from. IE trying to be open minded to see if my opinion is wrong.
This is why i asked what is even the point of the question. You're open to changing your mind but not your behavior... That's redundant to say the least. You're asking for well thought arguments against your current view point but the best they could get is "i agree. Thanks for your input." IF the behavior will not change then the understanding of the otherside literally doesn't matter. You ever heard "lions don't concern themselves with the opinions of sheep?" That's because lions will continue to be lions so there is no need to consider a sheep's perspective. If you come to the conclusion your opinion is indeed "wrong" but you will still slug, what is the conversation now really?
Who I'm currently experimenting with it on is Knight.
Figures. I can't stand Knight players.
Why is that boring? This description as both killer and survivor sounds fun to me, I enjoy chess.
If we wanted to play chess, guess what we'd play? Chess is fundamentally different from DBD. For starters, it is symmetrical. That symmetry means neither of you has an experience the can't have like different pieces, more or less information, different board, etc. DBD is not this, obviously. The same way making the survivor experience stronger/more fun can directly be tied to killer strength, and vice versa, means your idea of strategy may not align with the game as a whole or the survivor group's version of fun.
Why is it not fun? Abusing is an interesting word choice. To me that implies "unfair" or like "taking advantage of". No communication is what the game is balanced around and intended. I would expect someone to play assuming they have a lack of communication. Are you saying we should assume every match is a 4 man swf on coms? I don't think you want that because now you'd be implying every killer should be entering the match ready to sweat off and tunnel out as the start, we don't want that.
I don't know how to answer something you fundamentally cannot comprehend. You don't see how being slugged can be considered unfun, so what logical reasoning exists to make you see how it's unfun if you're okay with it... Abusing in the sense that no communication in this game is a developer oversight, not a feature. If people didn't have party chat or discord, this game would've died many years ago. The game isn't "balanced" around this because we can't know for certain what the reality would be if none of the games playedhad this stipulation. It could be a ######### show of we didn't have comm apps.
Let's make your play style very common... People don't communicate to eachother and instead have to run repeatedly around the map to get healed or risk doing gens until they're slugged in a corner of the map with what used to be a knockout perk that ruined any hope of you being found before a minute+ on the ground. Extrapolate that game out and make it common place. No funny moments talking to people, no ability to let out frustration and direct teammates to make better decisions, no agency on the ground. You'd kill DBD that way.
I'd challenge you to answer how being slugged can be considered FUN. You're asking how it's unfun. What reason do you have that would make people want to be in those games? Mixing your strategy with my teams inability to strategize as a core mechanic.
You describe this as if they're doing something they shouldn't be or unintended game play. That's how they work. That's what they're supposed to be doing. It's not "abuse". It's playing to their strengths and as intended
Just because it's intended, doesn't mean it can't be abused. Infinite loops are commonly referred to as "abused" when they existed in the games earlier stages. You'd have to equally disagree with all killer mains who had a problem with that. People called earlier MFT an abuser perk when combined with others even though it was intended.
-1
