http://dbd.game/killswitch
Thanks, BHVR, this felt worse than getting bled out ever did - at least I could crawl.
I think the video speaks for itself in regard to how much Survivors have been "enjoying" the anti go-next and the thoughtfulness of its implementation…
Edit, because the point wasn't clear, apparently: My issue is that the system not only fails to address why people were going next in the first place (further elaboration in a comment below), but it is broken. I have done everything right here. I've unhooked, healed, done gens, been in chase, and generally engaged with the game and tried to advance objectives even when the match has clearly become unwinnable, and I am still punished with the absolute non-choice of having to just hang on Hook waiting to die for over 2 minutes, or Abandoning the match and "un-completing" a Tome Challenge I had been stuck on for over a week.
Comments
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It’s rarely the rules that break the game… it’s how people choose to respond to them."
I’ve watched the video and I appreciate that it illustrates a sentiment many have recently voiced: frustration. But I believe the underlying issue here isn’t mechanical or systemic… it’s behavioral.
When players deliberately AFK, refuse healing, or run straight into the Killer out of protest, the question must be asked: is it the game that’s failing… or is it the reaction to not getting one’s preferred outcome?
Imagine a group of students in a university course. In past semesters, if they didn’t like an assignment, they could simply skip it without consequences. Now, the university introduces a rule: if you skip work, your final grade is affected. In response, a few students stop attending class entirely, sit silently in protest during group work, and tell others the system is "unfair"… not because the new rule is broken, but because it removed their ability to ignore responsibility without impact.
This isn’t an educational failure. It’s resistance to basic accountability.
Dead by Daylight, like any multiplayer experience, is shaped not just by its rules… but by its participants. The new go-next prevention system doesn’t punish creativity or freedom; it simply asks for the bare minimum of engagement. And if that’s seen as an imposition, it might be worth reflecting… as kindly as possible… on whether one’s time might be better spent elsewhere.
Just something to consider.
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I would like to ask how this system is not broken when I was doing everything right and was still punished by its shoddy implementation.
I unhooked and healed.
I was doing gens.
I engaged in chase.
I was trying to advance objectives, even though we clearly were not winning that Trial.
I followed all of the "rules". Every single one. And my "reward" for doing so was to be given the non-choice of being forced to just hang on the Hook for over two minutes unable to do anything until I died, or Abandon the match and lose progress on a Tome Challenge I had finally completed after being stuck on it for over a week. And, if your answer for everyone unfairly affected by this system is to take their ball and leave? Then you can kiss a huge chunk of the Survivor playerbase goodbye, especially those of us being unfairly punished, and you can enjoy your ever lengthening Killer queues.
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IIRC, you don't lose your challenge progress/completion if you abandon when everyone is downed/hooked.
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Appreciate your perspective, let me offer a different experience
I've logged around 20 hours of Survivor gameplay since the implementation of the AFK and Go-next prevention update.
Like you, I’ve occasionally been tunneled early, hooked quickly, and at times had minimal time to “perform.” Yet despite this, I haven’t received a single penalty, no crows, no warnings, nothing. That’s my anecdotal experience, but it leads me to believe the system may factor in more than just one isolated match.
As with the DC penalties, which take into account a rolling window of multiple games (e.g. the last 20), it wouldn’t be surprising if the same applied here. If true, then a single frustrating match may not be the true trigger, but rather a pattern.
Was the video you shared representative of a streak of games with similarly brief or low-impact participation? And on a related note: wasn’t the “go next” penalty already temporarily disabled?
Personally, I found this patch one of the most player-positive updates since I started playing back in 2018. Bloodpoint spending is now intuitive and fast, matchmaking feels slightly more stable, and… at least in my matches, I’ve seen far fewer DCs and game throws. I absolutely sympathize if your experience was different, but I think it’s important to differentiate between individual moments of frustration and systemic failure.
Would love to hear more if there’s ongoing evidence of consistent misbehavior by the system.
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If it's a Tome Challenge? You absolutely do. You keep your Emblems and your BP, but you lost 'Match Progress'. I've had a Sore Ankles ("Fall from a great height while being chased by the Killer x number of times") challenge that popped up as completed during a chase but the match ended in a 4-slug, so I Abandoned. Challenge reset to where it had been before the match, and this is not the only one. Every single time I have used the Surrender system to Abandon a match, I have lost any progress I had gained on Tome Challenges.
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The anti go next changes (alongside making map offerings useless) was one of the worst update they did in a long time. Instead of implementing it in a way that only punishes go next people, behavior rather punishes all players by robbing them their 3 unhook attempts. Removing the unhook attempts didn‘t even solve anything and made the game even worse for the other players than it would have been if Steve just died.
Behavior please bring back the 3 self unhook attempts. There are legit reasons for trying it when you have no other hope/chance. You should also encourage people to dc to give the team a bot rather than standing there and screwing over the whole team.
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Here's from the past 30 days, and there were several days where I just didn't play because the game got so intensely frustrating, and then it was actually pretty fun on June 23rd, so I racked up 21 Survivor rounds (same with June 17th, throw in some Huntress rounds as well, but those aren't shown here).
It's just gotten worse over the past 3-4 months Survivor side, though. Sell-outs (and Killers playing to them and giving them Hatch) have increased exponentially. MMR is at the worst I've seen it since I started playing, not just between Survivor and Killer, but among your teammates. If I'm playing with my duo (which usually doesn't go much better than solo q) it's not uncommon to get a Killer that comfortably matches our skill level, but our teammates are babies who are petrified of terror radius which isn't their fault, the tutorial is buns, and this is not a new player friendly game. It's still intensely frustrating and best case scenario one of us gets Hatch. Or, we get a Killer who is obviously new, they're not comfortable with that Killer's power, they're clearly having a rough time, our teammates are jerks and bag at the gates, and my duo and I stay behind to give them Hooks and a Mori. Then we might get a game where everyone is pretty evenly matched, and things could go either way at a moment's notice, and it's tense and engaging and win or lose we savor these rounds because they're fun and it feels like they've become extraordinarily rare. Then it's four rounds in a row where the Killer's losecon is apparently 'let 2 gens pop' and everyone is dead, even without anyone trying to go next or DC, at 4 gens.
This experience is not unique to me. Not even a little bit. It feels like BHVR decided to implement this system without bothering to ask or address why people were going next in the first place because yes, some people are going to ragequit out because they don't like the map or the Killer. They're going to throw a tantrum because their first chase didn't go well. They'll quit on first hook even if it is their first hook and everyone is still alive and there are only 2 gens left and the game was perfectly winnable and now I'm screaming internally because, "Thanks for doing that, now we're screwed."
And then there are the games where I feel utterly helpless and hopeless because there is no way we are going to win. Maybe for the fifth time this month I am being punished for not maining a cute girl when the Jill/Meg/Mikaela/Sable gives their item to the Killer, sells me out, and they spend several minutes griefing me (no, I'm not making this up, it really is that bad, and I'm not the only one who's posted about it) before finally actually killing me, and then the sell-out is given Hatch.
Oh look, the Trapper brought an offering for Basement in Shack, and they're not just a Basement Trapper, they're a Gaff Trapper. Anyone who tries to come and get me is walking into more of a death trap than with the usual Basement Trapper, so I need to give my teammates no one to come and save (when you could actually go next). Cue one of the randoms flashlighting/shaking their head at me before unhooking, and then stepping in one of the string of traps the Killer set up leading up from the Basement and out of Shack while I was being 'scolded'. Soon EVERYONE is going next in the Basement!
Oh, this Knight is targeting me specifically right out the gate, Renato FTP'd me and Meg tried to take hits when he came after me right off the Hook but he completely ignored Meg and he's an Assassin spammer, now I'm deep wounded, can't Dead Hard, and the Killer brought a pre-nerf offering for his best map, I'm 13 seconds off the Hook, down again, and going to Basement.
...so, basically, rounds that felt utterly helpless and hopeless and frustrating far beyond the emotional bandwidth I have left to spare. Not a fickle, "Eh, not feeling it," but, "This is utterly miserable, I feel like I'm a plaything in someone's kill-streak and/or 'This build makes Survivors give up!' video," sort of thing.
And I refuse to be one of those jerks (and there are a LOT more of them, now, since they can't go next!) who goes around throwing every pallet in the map, so now here I am, glad I have over 200 Vigo's Jars of Go Next, and if, god forbid, I thought to bring a BP offering because there was more than a meager 25% bonus and it's another Springtrap whose losecon is "2 gens popped," I can't make myself play well that round no matter how hard I try because I know I'm trapped. No go next, and the DC penalty "overhaul" is buggy and atrocious, too.
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Totally. Survivors were already lacking in comeback potential, but this patch removed even more of that. No 4% means you can't unhook and potentially save someone else and get back into the game. You can't even give hatch anymore, because the AFK crows make it even easier to find the last Survivor before you can die on hook, and if they're slugged, they can be insta-mori'd.
And I believe the lack of the comeback potential was the primary reason for all the DC'ing/giving up on hook, so this patch would make Survivors want to give up even more while removing the ability to do so at the same time. It is truly baffling…
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idk, if you dont know, but the go next prevention is on but the afk detection is off, so they can do that but they wont be able to when BHVR turns the system back on. all that can be said about this video is we just gotta wait for it.
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that's leon choosing to throw from what you showed mike didn't tunnel or anything but what were the offerings brought in that match?
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While I agree, I would have liked to keep the 4%... I've tried many times to come up with a solution that lets players keep the 3 unhook attempts, but still stops immediate SoH. Unfortunately even my best solutions, still aren't good enough... the player base just can't be trusted with it.
If you make it have no/a small penalty, you give 3 unhook attempts for free so everyone tries every time. If you give it a strong penalty then people die faster and can use it to get out of/ruin the game... there isn't really a way to make one of these scenarios not true...
BHVR have made it so that you can attempt a self unhook when only 2 players are left, thats the primary scenario you want to try and unhook... The only other one being if the rest of the team is hooked or slugged.
They could piggy back off their abandon system and have the self unhook option come up in the scenarios those trigger... like a "final hope" mechanic... that would be a solid suggestion... it's a little hand-holdy, but it's the only way I could see it work without being abusable.
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Leon brought Party Streamers. It was almost all BP Offerings minus a Shroud from Sable, and Myers brought the Map Offering. Pretty sure Leon threw because Steve threw so he knew the match was lost. No idea why he didn't Abandon once everyone was incapacitated, though, unless he was stuck in an, "I don't want to lose the progress on this tedious, godforsaken Tome Challenge," situation like I was, or something.
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How much do you think a killer going for adept enjoyed 4% into hatch escape? You said you did everything right and got punished, but the 4% meant that the killer could do everything right and get punished. There was nothing stopping you from abandoning, except you would lose a few struggle phase BP. You weren't forced to sit around. You chose to sit around. All they did was take away Survivors ability to get a random escape against a killer who did everything right.
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Tell me you didn't watch the video without saying, "I didn't watch the video." Or even read the comment. Abandoning a match loses any Tome Challenge progress you gained during that match. Like the one I'd completed that round that I'd been stuck on for a week. Which is how long it took me to adept Ghostface. It was a nightmare.
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I appreciate the depth of your reflection. You’re clearly someone who cares deeply about the game, and that alone matters.
That said, I think it’s worth distinguishing between systemic failure and systemic inconvenience. A system that occasionally misfires under edge cases isn’t necessarily broken… especially when it's designed to curb chronic, widespread behavior like early match throwing.
Frustration from being tunneled or facing uncoordinated teammates isn’t new, nor is it exclusive to this patch. But a playerbase that normalizes quitting when things feel unfavorable is new… and dangerous.
In the end, the issue may not be that the system overcorrects… but that too many players were underperforming the spirit of a multiplayer game for too long.
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But you do keep time challenge progress if you abandon, like this is straight from the patch notes.
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Then it's bugged. Because every time I have completed a Tome Challenge or even gained progress toward one, but then Abandoned using the Surrender system, I have lost that progress. And it always feels like it's a particularly tedious one, too… Sore Ankles, Blood Debt, Craft Time is Over, etc. I see the notification pop up mid-chase that my Sore Ankles challenge is complete. We get 4-slugged. I Abandon……. aaaaaand the Challenge is not complete.
Post edited by Bad_Medicine on0 -
Struggle skill checks are the only thing that should have been removed. They affect new/bad/console players much worse than older players and they are very annoying. I remember times were I was frustrated and just couldn’t deal with these (stupid) skill checks anymore. With them being gone the whole give up system would have been improved by a lot. Additionally they need to fix the obvious oversight they created with slower dieing on hook. There are situations were you want to die faster to give your last teammate a chance. So there should be an option to instasacrifice yourself on hook by pressing a single button when you are only two survivors, which would be such an easy thing to implement.
What caused the giving up after all? It was the dc penalty, which players found out they could easily bypass. Behavior needed to encourage dcing over giving up, hopefully they understand that one day. If players don‘t want to play the match till the end you can‘t force them and punishing isn‘t a good approach for everything! Now that we have bots, the best they could do is encouraging players to give their teammates that bot.
The 3 self unhook attempts are to a certain degree player agency. If a person wants to use them so badly that‘s their choice, but I would restrict it if they are used too often. Like it isn‘t reasonable to use them every match. My approach would be to simply deactivate the self unhook option for players that hit second stage too often with self unhook attempts. I would probably make it deactivate self unhook attempts when you use it in 4 out of 10 matches and then it deactivates for ten matches where you can‘t try. I wouldn’t count using it as the final two survivors.
Lastly I would improve luck. Afterall luck decreases the the chance of people going next, but the percentage you get from luck offerings needs to be increased. 1-3% is nothing and doesn’t improve your chance really. Same with the base chance, 4% is such a tiny number. Then I would remove the luck offerings that only affect one person and make luck affect chests. Lastly the luck chance needs to be visible somewhere on the screen to everyone, so my teammates can understand my intention or decide whether or not they should try to unhook themself. The problem of luck builds in soloq Que always is that your teammates don‘t know what you are trying to do and to be fair how should they. The real strenght of luck builds is when no one comes to the hook and by even one person coming they ruin your whole build.
In the end it really doesn’t matter to suggest anything. Behavior is probably not going to read it or they simply ignore it.
To summon it up. I would remove the struggle skill checks, give an instasacrifice option to the final two survivors, encourage to use the dc mechanic, improve the luck mechanic and restrict the self unhook attempts only for people that hit second stage too often. Sure some go next would still happen but it would be much less and far less reliable to do for certain people.
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Feel free to show me a video of that, it always worked fine for me.
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To come back to the scenarios where you should be able to try to self unhook yourself. I will probably forget some of them because there are a lot of different factors that play into it.
- Always in basement against Hag/Trapper…
- 3 people downed or hooked. The last survivor can‘t get close.
- 2 or more people hooked in basement and the killer is nearby.
- 15 seconds before second stage you should get one last try and not get punished for other survivors leaving you there to die.
- Always in endgame.
- Everyone hooked, dead or downed.
- Someone is slugged in the anti camp radius and refuses to crawl away.
- Two survivors have an active pig trap, hooked or slugged while the last one is occupied by the killer.
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Post edited by Langweilig on2 -
Struggle skill checks are the only thing that should have been removed. They affect new/bad/console players much worse than older players and they are very annoying
I feel less strongly about the second stage skillchecks personally. They are thematically accurate/satisfying, not too hard for the most part until you get to the very last few checks, keeps me engaged instead of looking away at my phone for the unhook, and all things considered, missing one isn't that much time off your progress bar. It takes 5 missed checks to die, which is approximately 7s of your timer if I guess at 5s between a missed check animation and the next skillcheck.
Additionally they need to fix the obvious oversight they created with slower dieing on hook. There are situations were you want to die faster to give your last teammate a chance. So there should be an option to instasacrifice yourself on hook by pressing a single button when you are only two survivors
This is a possible hot take, but I consider this change to be part of the fix to slugging for the 4k. There are multiple reasons that Killers slug for the 4k and the fact a survivor can quick kill themselves is one of them. As someone who always plays the hatch game, I much greater appreciate this change, as it gives me more incentives to actually hook since I have chance to try and find the last survivor, maybe even use my perks to assist me.
If players don‘t want to play the match till the end you can‘t force them and punishing isn‘t a good approach for everything! Now that we have bots, the best they could do is encouraging players to give their teammates that bot.
Sure, but that doesn't mean leaving should be easy. Bots are still bots, and easy for the killer to catch because they can be read/mind gamed very easily... and that can't change, because bots generally speaking should not be outperforming players for obvious reasons. A DC bot is a band aid fix, nor a fair solution, the survivors are still at a big disadvantage, so the DC penalty must stay, and players should not be allowed to subvert it easily.
The 3 self unhook attempts are to a certain degree player agency. If a person wants to use them so badly that‘s their choice, but I would restrict it if they are used too often.
Ideally sure... but we are basically creating an automated self kill feature with this though... which is exactly what the Go Next Prevention feature is... and we've seen how easily that can go wrong. Would you trust such a system to be reliable at preventing players "using it to often", but also not catching false positives? Seems highly risky to me.
Lastly I would improve luck. Afterall luck decreases the the chance of people going next, but the percentage you get from luck offerings needs to be increased.
I am very reluctant to increase Luck, cause I've seen the old Luck builds... they are very nasty and abusable, and tbh surprising they are still in the game at all. 4 players taking Vigo's Salty Lips, Slippery Meat, and Up the Ante gives each of you a 97.8% of unhooking yourself on 6 attempts.
Even as a solo build, it's still a 73.8% chance to unhook yourself on 6 attempts, or 48.8% on 3 attempts.
Effectively my overall point is, the benefits of reducing unhook attempts, as far as I've seen, have improved my survivor experience substantially. Far too many survivors quit far too easily, and it almost always dooms everyone... and with regards to some of these additional scenarios you list... there are a number that still reeks of giving up too easily to me, or make the rules inconsistent and confusing, particularly those based on the killer in play.
E.g the Trapper/Hag situation. A team might try to save and get wiped...or they might abandon you and do gens... the latter is the correct play. By sitting on hook for 140s, you are making it more difficult for the Trapper/Hag to go too far... you are helping your team by staying on tne hook. Killing yourself imemdoately, you free the Hag/Trapper from having to watch you, and likely put your team at a hefty disadvantage.
These proposals tend to have the same issues of abandoning your team and making it easier for the killer, or are gonna be error prone to identify and trying to implement them with appropriate safe guards causes more problems than its worth. The most obvious issue being a team of 2 can facilitate each other leaving on these quite easily, basically making "Go Next" a SWF privilege, and sucks to be SoloQ
Post edited by UndeddJester on0 -
Nothing about this helps against slugging for the 4K. The killers that hooked would have given the chance for hatch either way and the ones that didn‘t, won‘t after this change simply because there is a chance they won‘t get the 4K. Behavior finally needs to actually fix 2 vs1 situations instead of making them much worse than they already were.
Sure, but that doesn't mean leaving should be easy. Bots are still bots, and easy for the killer to catch because they can be read/mind gamed very easily
Then they need to improve bots.
A DC bot is a band aid fix, nor a fair solution, the survivors are still at a big disadvantage, so the DC penalty must stay, and players should not be allowed to subvert it easily.
Removing self unhook attempts puts survivors in an even bigger disadvantage and you can still not force players to play. You saw that in the clip above. The person staying alive screw over the team more than him being dead.
You don‘t get a 97% chance to unhook yourself, not even in swf. Sure swf can make it almost a guarantee but why is soloq left out and can‘t do the same?
Would you trust such a system to be reliable at preventing players "using it to often", but also not catching false positives? Seems highly risky to me.
My intention was to keep the system available for the majority that didn’t give up and only disable it for certain players. Sure some might still do it, but like you saw in the clip of OP you can‘t force players to play and in my opinion the bigger problem were the struggle skill checks than the self unhook attempts.
Removing the unhook attempts has just dumbed down the game even further and now the last comeback mechanic is just gone. Additionally behavior will continue to ignore reasons why people don‘t want to play matches till the end.
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Nothing about this helps against slugging for the 4K.
Not by itself not, but it does open the way to reduce it if a survivor hook is not an instant death, but granted this is a hypothetical.
Then they need to improve bots.
Why? It should never be a thing that bots carry the game.
I don't know how much experience you have with bot programming in games, but effectively the devs have to give them cheats in order to operate believably. For example bots usually get access to resources and mechanics that you don't. In DBD the bots don't react to Undetectable because they are aware of where you are at all times, and to loop properly they essentially have wall hacks and will turn opposite to you each time and will vault at certain points.
However you as a result can force them certain paths and predict them for faster downs. They have to be predictable otherwise it would be impossible to catch them through their perfect reads on you every time.
You don‘t get a 97% chance to unhook yourself, not even in swf. Sure swf can make it almost a guarantee but why is soloq left out and can‘t do the same?
I'm sorry to tell you this... you can.
Up the Ante stacks, so you have:
- 4% base
- 4% from Slippery Meat
- 4×3% from Vigo's Salty Lips
- 4×9% from Up the Ante
Gives 56% unhook chance for each unhook, so the chance fail an unhook is 44%.
So over 6 attempts that 0.44⁶ = 0.00725 of not unhooking yourself... or a 99.99275% of unhooking yourself. So it's actually even stronger than I thought.
My intention was to keep the system available for the majority that didn’t give up and only disable it for certain players.
Aye, some of those are good suggestions to be fair, but it is absolutely a feature to be VERY sparing with, because even if only 5% of players quit games on the regular, that is still 1 in 5 in games that destroyed by someone quitting... and people DO abuse it.
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