http://dbd.game/killswitch
9.1.0 | PTB Patch Notes
Comments
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Come and Get Me has an infinite time to activate the perk, which means the survivor can hold onto it as long as they want. And the perk is an area effect, so it works on multiple survivors at the same time (even yourself).
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OP? A 3 second stun if the killer is within 2.5 metres of a fast vault. OP? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣OP? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 JFC. Single use. OP. Christ. 🤣🤣🤣
Great, it may stop a killer being rewarded with a hit through one window fast vault that he shouldn't have got anyway if we weren't rewarding laggy killers. Although, this is DBD it will probably do the stun after rewarding the laggy hit so there will be zero benefit to the survivor.
-4 -
Yes, yellow bottles have become usable, but they are still not his main ability, the clown is a slowdown killer, he has always been played like this and will be played like this, yellow bottles were a distraction when it was boring to play purple and for yellow they collected whole new builds and took other addons, but to make him playable with yellow bottles you don't need to kill his purple ones, just leave everything as it was and don't change anything
Post edited by Barakuda666 on6 -
if i was in a swf i would just run this perk or have someone run it and make sure to get downed as close to a vault or pallet as possible and just fast vault during pick up animation. it's just a flashbang alt since if you mess up a pallet save you can vault the pallet and still get the save then smoke bomb to cover up any tracks
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R.I.P to his sanity.
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Once in a game. Head on is better than this especially in a SWF group. Multiple stuns to inhibit multiple chases throughout the game. 3 second. Single use stun and people are moaning about it.
This reminds me of when power struggle came out and killers were going crazy about it and how it was another second chance perk that will be in every game etc .... the reality is you rarely see it.
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Yup. It's yet another tool to deny hooks.
-1 -
Okay so some killer buffs/survivor nerfs and some killer nerfs/survivor buffs as usual.
Take a deep breath, killer mains. I know some changes make your heart beat faster but always bear this in mind: BHVR forces you to win more than you lose by design. I'm unaware of any other PVP dev that holds one sides hand this hard. It's easy to get caught up in the smaller details and forget the bigger picture that you are still the devs favorite child
-11 -
Regarding Keys and Map changes, I like the general concept of what you are going for but I feel like you have missed the mark a bit.
I won't talk about Maps since Keys are the bigger issue but overall the changes to Maps and Keys add nice variety and interactions to these items which will make them more interesting and create fun uses which should increase how often these items are brought into trials.
However some of these changes, particularly the changes to Keys, also removes what made these items really competitive. Not many people brought Keys, but a Iri- Skeleton Key with Blood Amber add-on was actually strong due to the one way aura reading on killers it gave survivors; this set-up put keys at equal level with good toolboxes or med-kits, making Keys competitive. By removing or nerfing these add-ons/interactions, in a way you are actually making Keys less useful than before even if they now have more interactions such as opening chests.
Iri-Skeleton Key from 30 sec of use to 6 changes, compared to Dull Key 5 sec of use to 5 charges makes Iri-keys feel much less useful than before. Also Blood Amber add-on being 2 way aura reading makes the add-on a whole lot weaker. Combined this causes some issues. Blood Amber add-on is the reason Keys were even competitive in the first place. By reworking this add-on you are actually nerfing keys overall and provide less reason to use them compared to Medkits and Toolboxes. Not to mention the add-on now reduces a Key's charges, which also makes Keys in general but particularly Skeleton Key already feels weaker than before. Why should I bring a Key now when other items can bring so much more value to a match, the answer used to be Blood Amber but now I don't see a strength other than free Bond perk which Keys already did before.
The new basekit aura reading on survivors is nice but this 100% could have just stayed an add-on that affects how the Key can be used. Add-ons manipulating a Keys abilities makes them more interesting. The chest interactions are interesting and open up more opportunities but overall I don't think many people will bring Key's for this, time spent opening chests is time not on objectives after all.
Overall I think the changes to Key's came from a good place and if they are implemented well, I think they will increase Key usage. However to me there seems to be even less reasons to bring a Key compared to before.
8 -
They are convinced they should be able to have a 100% win rate otherwise the game isn't balanced.
-6 -
It's a delicate balance for BHVR due to how strong pallets can be. Such changes to pallet gameplay need to be handled with care.
However I do agree that doing 2 chests for 1 party pallet seems pretty weak. I would reduce it to 1 chest or change the activation condition like you suggest. Or make it give a regular pallet over a party pallet; this would be strong but since a survivor is using a perk slot for it and likely will only be able to do it once per match due to the number of chests, I think it would be balanced.
-2 -
Having a mini-unbreakable that activates after being slugged for just a few seconds (what is it, 8 seconds?) is pretty unbalanced, and that's coming from someone who plays both sides (more survivor than killer these days). If someone goes down at a pallet, the killer typically needs to check the area to see if anyone will save, and if there is someone nearby, picking them up quickly isn't an option, at all. Same with people nearby with flashlights - picking up quickly isn't an option as experienced survivors won't go down near walls to face on pickup. This effectively means by having this perk equipped, as long as they had even tapped someone with a heal (ie a survivor can heal to like 95% then have their 3 buddies finish off the heal to give them ALL the effect), this effectively means they will be immune to getting picked up.
In the endgame with open gates or 99'd gates, this also means guaranteed escapes if they even manage to down someone if they are near a gate. Again, while pallets existing will break the balance with this perk, even without a pallet, flashlight savers will absolutely buy enough time for the person to pick themselves up then run to a safe loop or to the exit gate. There's no counter play. Killer's can't pick up the person within the amount of time before they can pick themselves up if someone is nearby because of pallet\flash saves - killers need to spend the time chasing off the saver. This is a lose lose situation and completely invalidates the time spent even getting the down to begin with. This also especially would be disastrous on m1 killers with no chase powers or map traversal. They have to fight tooth and nail for their downs - they need every single down to count since the game is already working against them.
What's going to happen here is people will simply run to pallet, get downed, and have a buddy nearby. This makes the downed survivor completely immune to getting picked up due to a pallet save. So, the killer must chase off the buddy, but now the downed survivor is guaranteed to get up for free, run a far distance, then go down somewhere of their choosing to get picked back up (OR just plot-twist to pick themselves up for free since the broken status disappears). This essentially makes every pallet in existence a god pallet, because as long as you have a buddy nearby to save, you will NOT get picked up and hooked, ever.
Now why as a survivor player am I saying this is a problem? The game should be about successful chases, mindgames, and loops, not just make a b-line to a pallet and go down intentionally since you know you're now immune to being picked up. Again, to reiterate, if you go down at a pallet with a survivor nearby, the only option the killer has is to leave you downed and chase the saver. Since you can now just simply pick yourself up after seconds, the killer either commits to the other person, or tries to come back to you, but you already are gone. If they commit to the saver, then that saver will simply do the same, go down at a pallet, and now he's also immune to getting picked up if there's a survivor near him. Considering you only need to finish a survivor heal, survivors can easily ensure everyone has this perk activated almost all the time. Just be injured, self-heal to 95, then your group just finishes the heal and now 3 people have it and you can indefinitely chain this pallet immunity. Once the downed survivor pick themselves up and run and go down somewhere else (naturally another pallet), they'll need to get healed, and the effect is now activate again for all the healers.
Frankly, this is strong enough to be a once a game effect. Completely have the ability to eliminate what would be a hook state on you. Not to mention now there is a perk to re-build pallets - you'll have a near infinite number of pallets available to go down at even towards the end of the match. Killer shack pallet, for example, will ALWAYS be up, now. While those "fragile" pallets won't be as useful in a chase, they will be god mode for going down at.
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I appreciate you providing so much detail here. Let me make sure I note down this feedback for the team.
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Scott Jund?
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yup. but this flavour of babysitter allows you to protect the whole class, whereas Babysitter is strictly limited to the unhooked survivor.
i personally like babysitter more as it fits into my Wicked builds but I feel Come and Get Me has the higher blowout potential/momentum shift
I'm definitely gonna try it for when I'm with less experienced people and I want to force chases with something like OoO, Troubleshooter or Scene Partner
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not exactly. a lot of people have suggested an idea like this. a similar idea is like adding a lethal pursuer effect to merciless storm and make it so all gen blocking durations last like 3-5 seconds longer. it’s a very cool and nice feature that the devs don’t seem to want to expand on. i like the idea specifically around these perks having that linger bonus because i like perks that have 2 effects that synergize with each other like lethal pursuer and current MFT.
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Maps have been destroyed in this update! I hate it with passion. It is just so bad.
Why do I need a map to see windows and pallets for 14 seconds when there is WINDOWS OF OPPORTUNITY FOREVER? I don't think the team plays the game at all, honestly. The point of the map is to show you everything else - chests, totems, gates, hatches, gens, hooks… It is honestly my favourite item because it's so simple yet, so informative but now I have discount windows…
It's only usable 6 times, 8 with add-ons and I have to use the whole charge every time… If you wanted to make changes to the maps, then add the beam just as a marker (point of interest) basekit to the uncommon+ and event maps. Other than that, honestly, maps have been very balanced and there was absolutely no need for them to get butchered so badly. The event map was special and now it feels like a total waste of time. If you are worried that they aren't picked enough, then after this change they won't get picked at all. EVER. Maps are in a good spot and they are a helpful tool for learning the game as a new survivor, which is how I learned where things are.
It's just not good in any shape or form. Every update you guys bring, survivors just get destroyed… Then you wonder why killer queues take forever and you wonder why the survivor player base descreases. Please consider not going through with them.
ON ANOTHER NOTE - PLEASE ADD YELLOW AURA TO LOCKER WHEN A SURVIVOR WITH HEAD ON IS INSIDE IT. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PULL IT OFF IN SOLO QUEUE AND IT'S JUST GOOD TO GIVE INDICATION.
The perk - Apocalyptic Ingenuity
This perk sounds like a good idea but the chest isn't the way to go. There aren't enough chests to make it worth it for a whole team. I think what would be better would be to pick up scraps from broken pallets and create one proper pallet. You can decide on the ratio - 3 to 1 / 2 to 1. This way there are more opportunities for multiple survivors to engage in the game and help with people who drop every pallet at 5 gens.
The perk - Last Stand
It's a really cool idea and I really like it but once per game? A whole perk slot for ONE STUN. You also don't get it for free, but have to set it up. I understand that it doesn't give you exhaustion and it can be stacked with all sorts of nasty combos but the cost is much higher than the pay off. Maybe make it so it charges for every 60 seconds in chase instead and no cooldown. If you get chased for 60 seconds, then stun the killer and then it starts charging again… Most survivors (other than the pros) can't do even 20 seconds of chase…
Post edited by MsBikasa on3 -
well with bhvr's balance changes no one will use it so the first buff they'll do is half the cooldown then the second buff is they'll get rid of the one time use by either making it turn on in endgame or just getting rid of it entirely
i'm complaining about something strong that'll get stronger in the future
-2 -
Thank you SO MUCH! 😁
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@ThatRyanB another change to Franklin's if the devs insist on letting the item keep its charge, is when it's knocked out of the Survivors hands it's sent a few meters away. As it is it's knocked out in the exact same spot you hit the Survivors at. This way, Survivors of they want to come back for their item, they will need to actually look for it more. Risk vs reward. But I rather keep this perk where the item at least will lose some charge when hit. The aura reading ability reach doesnt mean crap to me.
-1 -
Why does Clown need a sidegrade? Isn't he already a low tier killer? Feels like one of those changes that was made by only looking at the raw data. Clown already struggles compared to other killers and nerfing his slow gas is basically taking a bat to his kneecaps in terms of usability and I'm really not sure buffing his haste gas will make up for it.
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The perk that rebuilds pallets does only rebuild party pallets. They break when dropped. They are in no world good and very easy way to deal with. Also the survivors don‘t have infinite pallets, it would be like 1-2 more party pallets. No one is gonna use them.
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I think you didn't read my whole message. For chases, they arebt that useful. However, they are gold for anyone going down at the pallet. The killer can't pick up if anyone is nearby, and that then in turn activates the mini unbreakable perk (or power struggle). You can generate infinite uses of this. Usually you can only pull this off once per pallet, but being able to create fragile pallets, you have an infinite supply of god mode.
-2 -
Given that the plan was to have these perks updated to be used more often hopefully I feel as though that's gone the complete opposite way with Streetwise, the perk is fine as it is, I know it needed to accommodate the new key/map kinda but the rework having it only affect chest found items is really lame because although I don't mind having a rummage sometimes so many players don't look through chests so the perk just won't get used. It's great for extending the life of items right now, I just don't think I like a rework to a perk that's been fine as it is for as long as it has. Nea is an OG survivor, why change it this drastically now?
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At this point in the game's life, it is absolutely unacceptable for retired add-ons to just be rendered unusable in our inventories. It is especially egregious in this case since map and key add-ons have been the #1 culprit of bloat in Bloodwebs since the game's release.
There already is a system for converting add-ons into other add-ons. Use it. The retired add-ons should either be converted into the new add-ons for their items, or they should be converted into add-ons for the fog vial. In the case of maps, you could even convert them into the new rarity of maps. Just anything but making them unusable.
Just on Orela alone, I have 22 Scratched Pearls, 41 Gold Tokens, 9 Milky Glasses, 12 Weaved Rings, 21 Yellow Wires, 51 Black Silk Cords, 57 Odd Stamps, and 20 Crystal Beads. That is 755,750 wasted Bloodpoints on the newest Survivor alone, and I only have her at Prestige 9. As a reminder, there are 46 Survivors in this game. If we assume all of those Survivors have a similar amount of those add-ons, then that's an estimated 34,764,500 Bloodpoints worth of add-ons about to be rendered unusable. This of course only accounts for my spending habits, for players with more investment in their Survivors then the cost is even worse. For frequent players, these add-ons being retired is absolute robbery.
Plus, think what impression this is going to give to new players. They're going to see things that they've earned through progression just taken away with no compensation. They've just seen the conversion mechanic used to turn the old shrouds into the new ones, but now stuff is just being taken back out behind the barn? What's the reason to care about anything you get in the Bloodweb if it can just be taken from you, and you don't get anything back?
Do not let this go to live like this.
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OK, full thoughts on this. Gonna be long.
Rick Perks:
- Apocalyptic Ingenuity: Awesome, I've been wanting fragile pallets to come to the main game forever. This perk may not be useful but it's a fun idea, I'll definitely use this. Fun perk.
- Come and Get Me!: I think this perk is fine, it's a decent team protection perk that makes YOU the target at a cost. Dangerous against the wrong Killer, and a good way to incentivize hook spreading. If you're a good looper you will get good use of this perk, I do think 24m is a little far-reaching I would rather see it be on Survivors closer, like 20-16m. That way you can use it as a hook protection perk. Could pair with perks like MoM and be kinda fun! Great with hook save builds. Good niche perk.
- Teamwork - Toughen Up: Nobody uses teamwork perks, this will not be used - stop trying to make fetch happen. It's a cute idea, but it really has to be paired with something like Last Stand to work well. Not a fan. Reconsider or buff.
Michonne Perks:
- Conviction: What is the point of this perk? The downside is too severe, the fact you become Broken and then go down later anyway just makes you easy pickings for any Killer that pays attention. What's the point of this? I don't even see how it's useful with Plot Twist because you'll just go down 20 seconds later ANYWAY but without the benefits of Plot Twist, why would I not just bring Plot Twist or even Unbreakable over this? It seems like it lacks any real synergy. Not sure this perk is worth it. Risky gambit. Not worth bringing unless you get slugged a lot.
- Last Stand: Very bad idea, BHVR. Only good for bully squads in its current form, as written this perk only is useful if you rat for 60 seconds near a Killer, then come rushing in from nowhere to suddenly stun the Killer simply for playing the game as normal because they are chasing a teammate. In that way, it's the old Background Player problem all over again, except closer and you gotta stay in the Terror Radius. We do not need more perks that embolden bully squads against newer Killer players and we do not need a perk that encourages tunnelling the user like this. It should really have just been vault-based DS, and should have actually been a perk that works as your "last stand", that is, on second hook to save yourself or if you're being tunnelled. It badly needs to be based on being second hook or on if you're being tunnelled. Then it's fine and actually, I'd say very healthy. Rework. Heavily.
- Teamwork - Throw Down: Once again, nobody likes using Teamwork perks, stop trying to make fetch happen. Second, this is yet another Endurance perk, and this one gives it to anyone nearby? Why? There weren't enough endurance perks? Once again, this perk will just be used to bully squad and can be comboed in some very nasty ways against new players. It really only hurts baby Killers or weaker Killers for no good reason; there is no other reason to use this perk. Doesn't work on stealth Killers that can hide their aura or have one shot downs (So Ghosties, Pigs, Wraiths, Myers would be OK if they're just smart about their powers), but I worry for the really weak ones that can't do much about it. Your baby Legions, baby Trappers, baby Doctors, Baby Hags. Problematic for that reason, should be reconsidered - either remove the endurance or remove the aura read on Killer. Monitor this perk.
Executioner Changes:
- A pretty nice buff to Pyramid Head. Not a Pyramid Main, can't say, but seems like a buff for some drawback. Probably OK. The addon upgrades were BADLY. NEEDED. Very good range on him now, concerned it may make him too strong even. Monitor these changes.
Clown Changes:
- RIP Clown Mains, he's a D tier now if these changes go through. DOCTOR would have better antiloop, hell even the Stealth Killers have better antiloop due to mindgaming than this. He was never intended to be a chasedown Killer, and he's now a chasedown M1 Killer that has lost his strong loop denial in exchange for a chase power that Survivors can ALSO use to boost themselves with their own perks? Ouch. You will never see a Kenneth in the Fog again. Please strongly reconsider these changes.
Pig Changes:
- LESGOOOOO THEY ACTUALLY BUFFED HER. End of story. Solidly a high C now, I think she probably is about in the Ghostface-Myers range now if not a little stronger. Addon updates seem OK, now I would say she has actual OK antiloop and some mobility. Certainly not B tier, but definitely in a good spot. Really truly feels like she needs no more adjustments. Great changes!
Knight Changes:
- This is rough. Knight was already a very low B tier, now with this he's a C tier if these changes go live. Poor Tarvhos didn't deserve all this. The point of Knight was his antiloop, not his AI partners, now he's got weaker antiloop. Why have them be there for less time in exchange for faster spawning and having them go longer distance? Are they trying to make him have some kind of weak mapwide mobility? Addon changes seem pointless too. Sorry, Knight Mains. At least he is still somewhat functional? Reconsider these changes, if only for the Knight Mains.
Oni changes:
- FINALLY, he has a turn rate and can flick again. I can play him again, he felt so damn stiff. We back, boys. Good change.
Fog Vials:
- Genuinely OK but also a genuine accessibility issue. That Iri addon for it cannot go live for that reason alone. Apparently the haze won't be as bad as 2v8 or Haunted, so that's OK. Affects higher tier Killers more, and doesn't really harm stealthy Killers or M1s unless they don't pay attention. Reconsider that iri addon, it's an accessibility nightmare for HoH/Deaf players. Poor Spirit and Drac Mains... Looks like fun for the Survs though, and I'm happy to see it's multiple use. Anything that makes Survivors choose something besides medkits and toolboxes is A-OK with me. Ambivalent, but monitor in case anything weird happens.
Key Rework:
- Much healthier and more interesting, perfect if you like to chest goblin, great in that it no longer allows wallhacks on Killers, and gives chests a use - so it's something else for Survivors to DO if they bring a key. Has synergy with some builds. Has a tactical purpose now. Charge-based for multiple uses, great! BROKEN KEY HAS A USE. Blood Amber nerf is very, VERY justified and still does what it's intended. Will be bringing Keys more often now. Great change.
Map Rework:
- Now a portable, limited WoO, good for newer Survs and not too problematic to handle as Killer anyway. Charge based feels much more fair as a compromise. No longer can be abused to just... show everyone or even show the gen jockey where everything is, a problem because it rendered hex builds on Killer moot and could be too strong against Killers that lack strong map pressure. Frankly they work like how WoO SHOULD work IMHO. Bloodsense map got a much deserved nerf. Crimson Stamp seems like a bad idea, but it's very range and charge limited so I don't think it's gonna be an issue. Addons change the way maps work, making them more interesting. Good change for newer Survivors and SoloQ, but probably won't cause maps to be used more. I certainly won't need them.
Killer Perk Changes:
- Insidious: Not what the perk needed, nobody will use it. Rework and do something else with this perk, it's still useless. Pointless sidegrade.
- Hubris: Funny, but not sure it's enough. It's very fun to punish stuns though. Sidegrade.
- Dragon's Grip: Same reason, good for punishing people who return to gens, but still not much use. Sidegrade.
- Scourge Hook - Hangman's Trick: OK maybe this makes it a bit more useful now. Not sure it will help. Sidegrade?
- Overwhelming Presence: VERY good rework and necessary to combat the item meta, and exhaustion perks as a whole. Might actually have use on Killers that hide their Aura now, making it a worthwhile pick. Good change.
- Franklin's Demise: Wait, so now it only works with Weave Attunement and that's it? People used it to combat items, not to reveal auras... I don't think this change is a good one. I understand why it had to change but like... Franklin's was always just used to troll. Not sure it needed this, just to not work with Weave. Probably not the right change to this perk, monitor or reconsider.
Survivor Perks:
- Potential Energy: I love PE, and think this is a much fairer change - tradeoff of 1% progression, but there is no waiting. Sidegrade, fine.
- Any Means Necessary: Not sure this will make people use it, especially because resource denial is a key part of Killer. Still a useless perk. Pointless change.
- Better Together: Much needed for SoloQ. Good change.
- Still Sight: Actually makes the perk sorta useful now. Good change.
- Built to Last: Frankly could become a problem with the item meta, but nice for Survs anyway. Devs should monitor this perk for any issues.
- Appraisal: Great, but still won't make people pick it. I guess if you like looting builds. I do! I think they can be fun. 🙂Fun perk change.
- Streetwise: ... Kinda makes sense for the perk? Still fits Nea's character. Not sure the aura is worth it for 8 seconds, but will get me to use it. Chest thing is a very cool concept and works with other perks. I really like this rework! I guess they really want Survs on chests... Great change IMHO!
- Detective's Hunch: This never needed a buff, it was already pretty good. Devs will have to monitor and maybe consider just leaving the perk alone except for removing its ability to add objects to maps.
- Deja Vu: I guess it's fine? Nobody uses this perk unless they wanna be hyperefficient on gens anyway. Still unsure why the "temporary gen progression buff" was kept permanent but BHVR never said they were keeping it that way, feels disingenuous. I don't have a problem with the perk, I do have a problem with BHVR changing a perk, saying it's a "temporary change" they will revert eventually, and then just never telling us they won't be changing it back. It's ok to keep this perk this way, but tell us when you keep changes like this, don't keep us in the dark wondering, it makes you look untrustworthy. If you hide this sort of change, what else are you hiding? Pointless change otherwise.
Hook change:
- Good, I would like to not have to hang around as either side when the game is decided as Killer win. Now make it so when the game is decided for Survivor win, the Killer has the ability to abandon. No more waiting for people to leave if Survivors do not have to sit and watch a hook animation. Great change.
Presets:
- MORE PRESETS THANK YOU. I want more than three builds and cosmetic sets to swap between. I have so many! Great change!
Customs:
- All good here, no complaints. Good changes.
New Map - Forgotten Realm:
- Yet again an indoor-outdoor map that should have just been an indoors map. Why do you keep doing this? First Nostromo Wreckage, then Fazbear's Pizza and now this? Why are the devs so scared to add more indoor maps? Because there's Killers that struggle on them? Well tough cookies, there's more Killers that struggle on outdoor maps, why not make it equal and give us options? We haven't had a cool indoors map since RPD, give us something else interesting and give Stealth and M1 Killers a break for once. In addition this map is probably too big. Why do we insist on the double pallets, Devs, nobody likes them. And wow, Withered Isles again, they REALLY wanna bury Garden of Joy for good so that nobody ever gets that map again, don't they? Good. Throw GoJ in the trash where it belongs, no map should ever be that sided to one side ever. Now do the same with Haddonfield and everyone will be happy. Devs should monitor this map and adjust it as needed.
All in all… kind of a mediocre patch with some good and some bad, and for some reason completely slaughters two Killers but has a kinda crappy map and adds some potentially problematic perks to Survivor? Meh…
Post edited by LockerLurk on1 -
But you can‘t create infinite fragile pallets and even when this was the case, it would only happen once to you and then you bait them into dropping the fragile pallet after which you down them again or you pick them up before they do it.
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pyramid head's add-on changes are ######### awesome
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Still not sure you're understanding. You don't use them to drop on the killer to stun them in a chase. There's no baiting involved. As an injured survivor, you run to a pallet, then you stand there. Either the killer downs you, or he leaves you. Either way, you win. Once you're downed, they can't grab you with your buddy nearby. If they dare, they get stunned. If they run after your buddy, you simply get up (with the new perk), or you power struggle if they come back to get you. If the killer is silly and does pick you up, they get stunned, you escape. Now you can come back and rebuild the pallet. Rinse and repeat. If they dare pick you up, either your friend pallet saves, you power struggle, or you use the new perk and get away. If the pallet is destroyed, then you can just create another fragile pallet.
The whole downside to fragile pallets is that they are destroyed once dropped. You can entirely disregard this downside if you instead use it to go down at instead of trying to use it in a chase where (as you mentioned) baiting is necessary. Skip that entirely - simply go down at the pallet. Now you can't be picked up without the killer getting stunned. At the moment, the game is balanced around the idea that while you can guarantee yourself safety at any pallet by going down at it, it permanently uses that pallet resource, and as the match progresses, less and less pallets are available. However, now, you can just keep recreating them. You DO NOT drop them in chase. You instead just go down at them. The entire downside to fragile pallets are non-existent if you use them in that manner.
-4 -
The problem isn't "you win more than lose so these changes are fine."
The problem is some of these changes make the game needlessly more frustrating for some Killers.4 -
I strongly agree with this. Let us convert our useless retired addons and offerings and items into bloodpoints or Shards, then this change would be fine.
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Last Stand I wish was an exhaustion perk with the current requirement, once per trial is madness. Or at the very least give it the dead hard treatment once per hook
-2 -
More pig buffs, revert clown and knight nerfs, and for the love of god patch kidnap tech already or make kanekis scamper worse
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Why nerf k ight
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The Knight, The Clown and Franklin's is just proof you Devs Hate Killer mains. Franklin's was ment to help counter Sabo and other items that does bully Squads like crap. Ur listening To survivors more than The Killer side and this Is Solid proof. Ur gonna Lose ur Killer players very Fast if these Changes go through. I'm not the only one that's saying this btw. We Killer mains are begging you to revert these three Changes back.
If The Clown Changes of his purple bottles and Addons and keep the Yellow bottle Changes it would be fine.
I'll be honest I'm kinda Losing my love for this game.
I'll still play it but I won't trust you guys with making the Game better for both sides
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Can't say I'm happy with the Streetwise rework. I don't see why the efficiency buff was removed, since toolboxes, medkits, and flashlights still use the old charge system.
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You know the survivor perks are bad when the usual suspects who find at least one perk to have a knee-jerk reaction about are completely silent lol
Most of these changes look fine to me. Pig's changes are much needed and I'm keen to try them out. I know alot of folks would have preferred a buff to her RBTs but honestly, I think those provide the perfect passive slowdown, and her stealth and ambush needed the buff.
From what I've seen of the fog vials they're fine and breathe a bit of much needed life into what has become a stale role. I hope the feedback of those who think they are fine get passed along just as much as the feedback from those who dislike them (because of course folks who never touch survivor are going to hate anything that provides the slightest bit of benefit to their opponents. I play both sides and think they seem fun, and this game needs some fun honestly).
And thank you for listening to the community on the hook situation (ie 2 skill checks when there are only two survivors left)
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Do we get recomensated for all the addons we lose? I literally have thousand upon thousand of each map and key addons you will retire with 12 surviviors p100 and everyone else p11-25.
The change just doesn't feel right or fair, because we lose so much BP we spent on it.Also, can we have a toggle to hide those retired addons?
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You are really not understanding. You can make 1 fragile pallet after opening 2 chests. So basically 1 pallet per game. How is that infinite? Do you understand what infinite means?
These pallets are crap in the event where you can make loads without a perk slot being used. Nobody is using this perk. Nobody.
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I think still sight has a potential to be strong with shorter activation time it will make mind games harder for killer in certain loops.
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Apocalyptic Ingenuity reminds me of Invocations. A neat idea for a perk that BHVR seems really concerned is going to be way too strong, so they overload with conditions. This could have been build time and long cooldown and been absolutely fine.
Come and Get Me: Meme perk for trying to hide others and bait chase.
Toughen Up: I originally thought the perk was awful, now I'm kind of on the idea its okay, but not very strong. I guess its use is after saving a survivor from being picked up, you increase the chance of them getting away.
I personally find injured survivors really easy to track via sound so it doesn't seem that useful to me, but maybe the scratch marks / blood pools will make a difference.
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Conviction: Interesting perk idea. I don't think its strong, but it does have a neat use.
Last Stand: Once a match you can stun a killer through a window. Okay, cool.
Throw Down: Like Toughen Up, requires a teammate to have this and work together for the save. The 10 seconds of endurance only seems relevant if you're hitting a Nurse or Blight. But being the injured survivors should be running away as fast as they can while the killer is stunned, the aura read is nice but doesn't seem like a huge deal.
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There's no baiting involved. As an injured survivor, you run to a pallet, then you stand there.At the moment, the game is balanced around the idea that while you can guarantee yourself safety at any pallet by going down at it, it permanently uses that pallet resource, and as the match progresses, less and less pallets are availablePallets aren't that rare. If your only concern is finding a pallet to use for a save then you don't need to use a good pallet, you can use the weakest pallet on the map.
With the current condition of 2 searches a survivor needs to dedicate a lot of time, and potentially a good portion of their build, to add something in that you need to then dedicate more time to be near to create the possibility of a stun so the killer doesn't just autopick.
This is on top of if the survivor doesn't reach the pallet, or just goes down on it right away, you've lost out on even more time.
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So another survivor sided update, as usual.
Fog vial is completly busted, I can't even imagine what a 4 swj is gonna do with it.
Survivors got smoke bombs, rebuildable pallets, stun on vault and aoe endurance when a pallet gets thrown, and killers get a nerf on franklin's, a Phead nerf, a Knight nerf, a Clown nerf (because yeah let's nerf B and C tier killers, why not), one second faster activation on insidious and a Pig buff, woohoo !
Post edited by Ardel on-14 -
Agreed. They took away his ability to effectively chase and zone out with the one good part of his kit and then buffed the side that benefits everyone. Not really a good change in any way but we'll see where it goes
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Awww look at this. You can tell killers have had their hands held for so long that when any slight change comes in they start crying about how unfair it is.
Meanwhile, survivors(especially solo) is in the worst shape ever. They get trapped in games that are unwinnable so the killer can have fun and they just got another 6 pointless perks.... woo
"Rebuild pallets" 1 single party pallet per game
"Stun on vault" once per match
The survivor perks are dreadful. Compose yourself.
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I suppose I didn't take your personal match lengths into consideration - my bad. My matches on average are around 10 minutes long - sometimes going to 15. The "hard limit" of available pallet re-creations would never be realistically reached within that time period unless you're trying to do some sort of Guinness world record and just sitting there constantly trying to create fragile pallets, destroy them, and rebuild them again, but at that point you're not actually playing the game as intended. So yes, by someone gamethrowing and just constantly trying to spawn and destroy them instantly instead of playing the match, in that specific scenario you've created, yes it isn't infinite. Also yes, if your finding your personal matches are taking an hour long for some reason, sure you could hit the limit. However, I'm talking about playing the game, not someone gamethrowing, and I'm also talking from my personal experience that matches on average never go beyond 15 minutes. However, even if your personal matches are taking an hour long for some reason, eventually the killer will stop trying to pick you up once he knows what you're doing, so that's even less fragile pallets destroyed which means no need to make more, so once again, your "limit" is never getting reached.
So to be clear, I'm talking about being realistic, not creating edge cases that don't occur in natural matches. By the time matches end, there's usually still a small number of pallets left. Considering the time it takes to chest hunt, and the time it takes to run through all pallets, AND considering the killer will quickly realize you're immune to being picked up and the fragile pallet simply EXISTING and not even being used is enough to give you godmode, you should never realistically run out of pallets and fragile pallets, hence the infinite statement. There's plenty of normal pallets, and when all the good ones are gone, you can realistically continue to generate fragile ones out of the god pallets until the match ends (frankly, god pallets don't matter - any pallet works for the going down "technique", even very weak pallets). Again though, my experience is matches usually end within 10-15 minutes. Your acting like you'll hit the limit, so if your matches means you keep having several birthdays every match, then yeah, you'll hit a limit.
So now you understand that realistically you can just keep recreating pallets, what's going to happen is people will just go down at a pallet - not drop it, just go down at it. It's a safe zone. The killer cannot pick them up if you have a buddy with you. If by some bizarre circumstance the killer does pick you up, the pallet just stuns them, and you're free. Afterwards, you just rebuild it (assuming it's still a good place to do so). You'll pretty much never hit your limit because
- Match length
- Killer won't just keep picking you up once he figures out you're immune to being picked up
So considering in normal matches where a world record isn't being attempted, you'll have an infinite supply of fragile pallets - mostly due to the fact that you'll have no NEED to re-create many unless the killer isn't too bright and seriously keeps picking you up just to get pallet stunned.
Originally, we had this tactic already with power struggle and flipflop. The balance here is that the killer would effectively HAVE to eat the pallet (or play the slug bleedout game), but it would permanently remove that pallet. Over the course of the match, pallets within range of gens would eventually just go dry, and that tactic wouldn't work anymore. However, now, survivors can just simply rebuild them. Eating the pallet would be a disaster for the killer since it's no longer permanently removing that resource. It's a lose-lose situation for the killer. If the killer DID eat the pallets, then with zero gen pressure, the match will conclude pretty quick…unless you're just a bully squad, but again, that's not participating in normal gameplay - trying to extend the match as long as possible. If you're going out of the bounds of normal gameplay, those fragile pallets will no longer be infinite, naturally.
EDIT - Just doing your math for you. You can have up to 13 chests in a match. If you're seriously blowing through all of those fragile pallets and hitting the limit, then you have a very dumb killer (which you'll win anyway), or someone's intentionally wasting them.
Post edited by RpTheHotrod on-2 -
I promise you, there's no disrespect intended for Killers from our side. PTBs are intended to be a space where we present changes to the community to go hands-on with and share their feedback on. Just because something makes it to the PTB, doesn't mean that's the precise state it will then make it to the live game in.
We've been closely following community feedback on these 3 topics (among many more, of course), and have been sure to share this feedback with the team.
While I totally get that it can sometimes be frustrating to come face to face with changes that you don't vibe with, believe me, sharing constructive feedback on what does or doesn't feel good is immensely helpful to both us and the wider dev team, as it helps inform further balancing adjustments.
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While I mostly agree here, and we certainly appreciate your openness to even have a PTB (seriously), we've been burned before on the PTB. Easy example was the slew of negative feedback that was provided about the original Made For This, and despite the amount of negative feedback, it still went live, and it took almost a year before your team got around to finally admitting it was problematic and balancing it. That was a year of hell for m1 killers with no chase powers - killers who are already the weakest in the game. PTB changes, despite the promises of "we'll keep an eye on it" has burned us many times before.
That being said, I do APPLAUD y'all coming up with a new item (the fog vial) to try to add to the basegame. While I feel the iri addon is very problematic, along with being able to stack their effects together, it's nice to get something "new" to add a new dynamic to the game. I'm tired of just bringing a medkit or toolbox every match, ha. It's also nice to see keys and maps have a purpose now. That means less toolboxes and medkits constantly. While this is all technically just buffing survivors, an already strong role, I feel it may still help alleviate pressure for killers indirectly by there being less gen rushing and sabos and free self heals.
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I appreciate the openness on that and believe me, I can understand where feelings of concern around balance can stem from. While I can't always promise what an outcome will look like, you better believe we're here to make sure folks' feedback makes it back to the team.
And on that note, I can confirm that we've taken note of feedback around the iri add-on and stacking for the Fog Vial. Outside of those two points, how are you feeling about the item so far?
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Honestly, and maybe an unpopular opinion, I love them. Heck, the fog vial from the event I really enjoyed. That's mostly because I really like mindgames in the game (while I play mostly survivor atm, my killer main is a p100 ghostie, so mastering mindgames is a must to succeed). On survivor, I love running stuff like Deception or Red Herring, so this fog vial is RIGHT up my alley. Back when we had the fog vial from the event, sometimes I'd break a vial somewhere where my retreat ISN'T just to make them think I went running off in that direction when reality I stayed in place nearby or ran off in a completely different direction and just used the fog as a decoy. While it's less viable to do so with these newer vials, I suspect we'll be able to pop the vial to get the killer's attention. Someone working on a vital gen or healing somewhere? Pop the vial off to the side to steer the killer's attention to it and away from your vulnerable buddy. Lots of potential even out of chase, I say.
Next time there's a Light's Out mode being considered, how about a Fog's Out mode? I think it would be interesting to see a lot more fog in the game for sight blocking instead of the pitch black like Light's Out. Bear in mind, I mean the non-iridescent and non-event fog vial we have on the PTB….you can make things out…kind of, as opposed to being completely blinded by it. More creepy.
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