http://dbd.game/killswitch
How do we define "tunnelling"? Would you consider this tunnelling?
I had a scenario where, while playing a low tier Killer that lacks mobility, I was keeping close watch on a hook and nearby gens. But when I came back to chase the unhooker, the Survivor that just got off hook rather than try to leave when I came for their friend, stood under the hook and waited. Now, I understand this is an invitation to let them leave by killing them, so I took it - because to my knowledge the polite thing to do when someone wants out is give them the out. I have always done this, I understand not wanting to stay in a round against a Killer you dislike. No harm no foul.
In addition I realized it looked like a tunnel and felt bad, so I went after two other players before that to give them a chance. There were a solid two chases and a couple gen kicks between me and this player. I find the previously hooked player again, having not healed at all, so I chase, down, and hook/kill them since they're the weak link out and they clearly wanted out before. Player later calls me out in the endgame chat with a bunch of bigoted comments to boot concerning my Pan Pride flag charm (I'm Pan and I use that flag on everyone). Player was not very good at looping either. Friend tried to body block poorly and failed as well, so I even went after and hooked them. The team made several errors as well, like not healing when they could and popping syringes too early, one even wasted shack pallet early.
Would you consider this tunnelling, or would you consider this the Survivor crying tunnelling before any sort of tunnel happened? At what point do we define something as a tunnel? I feel this has implications for coming anti-tunnel changes and really needs discussion. How do we truly define what is a tunnel, and what is simply pressuring a weak link, pressuring an unhook and happening to see someone give up, etc.
Comments
-
no if they are afk under hook they deserved to be killed, tunnelling is when killer ignores everyone and everything until that one person is dead, it's easy to recognize they proxy camp the hook and immediately hit the unhooked to eat endurance, anything else is not really tunneling
2 -
"In addition I realized it looked like a tunnel and felt bad"
No bro remember there is no black or white you shouldn't feel bad because survivors made a mistake, as long as you don't chase 1 survivor for 10 minutes ignoring everyone else that's not a tunnell, I've been called a tunneller in games where I got a kill on 8 hook so just relax and don't let other people's opinions interfere with your game
3 -
1: Anything that gets said in an end game chat shouldn't be used as example of real arguments. Tunneling, gen rushing, SWFing, etc. will get claimed by the losing side despite evidence because there are lots of people who just like to troll in the end game chat.
2: A survivor just refusing to play is its own situation. Its not tunneling. The match is kind of finished right there and different players respond to it in different ways.
3: Even beyond that, you went and chased others, so its not tunneling.
1 -
First off I want to apologize that you had to deal with bigoted comments. That is never okay and I’m sorry you had to deal with such childishness.
Secondly, I personally feel it’s important for terms to have clear definitions. Those definitions don’t change even if x, y, or z happened, but the justification I feel does. For example, my definition of tunneling is if a killer hooks the same player consecutively until death. It doesn’t matter if that player body blocked, if they ran away and were just innocently found, if they stood there under the hook; it doesn’t change the fact that tunneling occurred but it’s not always negative depending upon the reason why it happened.
Like if I got a speeding ticket because my wife is going into labor- it still doesn’t change the fact that I am speeding, regardless if it’s a good reason to speed or not. Someone standing under the hook refusing to leave until hooked to death was still tunneled, but it was also self inflicted.
I understand why it can be very daunting with the upcoming anti-tunnel changes coming because of the fear of weaponizing the anti-tunnel, especially because the AFK Crow system resulted in completely innocent people getting flagged for trying to “go next” despite it not being the case. So I get that some kind of base-line system built in trying to detect tunneling can be alarming in special circumstances like you listed above, when the survivor clearly wanted to go next and therefore wanted to be tunneled.
That’s why I do think that instead of a flat out penalty or punishment for tunneling, better incentives for not tunneling should also be apart of the system. The goal should be that it is no longer in the killers best interest to tunnel, and that can only happen when the unhooked survivor comes with more risk/less value than a different one.
In any case, everyone also has their own definition of tunneling or gen rushing. I asked a question a long time ago if people could define gen rushing and the consensus was basically “it is if I I say it is” which is also used by survivors who claim tunneling as well. Thats why I feel it’s important for a simple definition that doesn’t change regardless of what lead to it, otherwise you get all these complex answers that are really just personal opinions masquerading as fact.
I’m sure that whatever system they put in place for anti-tunnel and anti-slug will be heavily monitored and changes will be swiftly made accordingly if the system is flagging false positives (just like the AFK incident) so try not to stress too much. But I’d encourage you to keep being vocal about your concerns, and questions about this kind of system so that the devs could get that feedback.
I wish you luck in your future games! And I’m sorry you had to deal with such awful humans.
2 -
Thanks, I do feel better hearing that. I'm glad most people agree this wouldn't be considered a toxic tunnel, either, at least not in the sense of a purposeful one.
Like, if I HAVE to I'll do it. But it's not like I go outta my way to. I'm so casual I just don't care unless I have to lock in.This team on review of my footage even made several mistakes, such as:
- Poor Looping,
- Poor body blocking,
- Wasted resources,
- A player completely throwing to stand under the hook and give up (they had DS, but did not use it),
- Using fast heal perks and items too early, including healing under hooks against Ghostface (who typically stalks there),
- WASTED SHACK PALLET,
- Didn't understand what to do with a Killer that knows not to chase the good looper at strong tiles (because Ghostface is weak at those),
- 3Genned themselves,
- Were too altruistic at Shack basement, which I could watch from the Main of Ormond Mine, which I had to do because I had one gen left and needed to pressure unhooks (because again, I'm Ghostface and I can stalk for quick downs even if they get to the shack),
- Wasted time healing when I had Franklin's which negated their medkits, instead of popping that last gen,
- Wasted time trying to finish a gen in my face and then loop me before going for a save on their friend when they could have just gone for the save,
I just… don't understand the need for some players to blame their mistakes on the other side. My fear is that the new systems could artificially boost these players or otherwise be weaponized, definitely, which is another reason I think BHVR didn't go through with basekit UB+Tenacity. I'm not against real tools for real tunnels, but when you stand under a hook…0 -
Personally, my friend, I define tunneling as a killer targeting one specific survivor until they are dead, to the point where the killer would drop whatever they are doing to chase this survivor again as soon as they got unhooked.
In your match here, I don't think it was tunneling. The survivor gave up, they wanted to leave the match, and even then you went after someone else. Not even the wildest definition of tunneling would include this scenario, imho.
1 -
Then it was just Survivor salt I guess… which I still don't understand. That's also how I define tunnelling, and it's something I just will never purposefully do unless you actively irritate me really badly. Same for 4 man slugging (unless deadass given no other option), and same for camping hooks (unless it's endgame and the gate is open and someone is on the hook, then I have nothing else to do).
Maybe they were upset I brought Franklin's to counter their two medkits and toolbox with their heal builds? Maybe they were upset I knew how to play Macro well. I'll never understand it.
1 -
Recently, my friend, I was playing a Skull Merchant game on Léry's. 3 kills, and I let the Claudette get the door after she put on a show with Bardic Inspiration.
Cuts to the Endgame chat, and Renato is complaining a lot, claiming he was tunneled. Thing is, Renato was not hooked twice in a row. He was the first to get found, yes, but after that at least two survivors were hooked before he got his next hook, twice. It couldn't possibly be tunneling, tunneling always requires the killer to focus on a particular survivor, and yet Renato claimed he got tunneled.
Some players out there, killers and survivors, complain just for the sake of complaining. Some are, unfortunately, toxic about it. And some of them just refuse to accept that they could have played differently, and always blame the other side.
2 -
I had a scenario where, while playing a low tier Killer that lacks mobility,
You've been lead to believe there are seperate rules for different killers. It doesn't matter if you believe the killer is weak, mid, strong, or OP. If the survivor feels they are wronged the killer is only a factor in escalation.
I was keeping close watch on a hook and nearby gens.
Already "guilty" of camping, why feeling bad about tunneling? In the eyes of the survivor you've already commited a grave sin.
But when I came back to chase the unhooker, the Survivor that just got off hook rather than try to leave when I came for their friend, stood under the hook and waited. Now, I understand this is an invitation to let them leave by killing them, so I took it - because to my knowledge the polite thing to do when someone wants out is give them the out.
They stood there because they have been conditioned to stand there. If you let them go, you're at fault because you came back to the hook. If you kill them you're at fault for being a toxic tunneler.
In the go next mindset the killer is always a toxic POS and anything they do becomes a justifiable reason to not try anymore. You are expected to ignore them standing there. To do otherwise is to plea guilty to ignore is beg forgiveness for being there. They are not expected to run away because why are they being forced to play that way?
0 -
Yes, that is a very valid concern. Personally I feel tunneling has done just that as well, as it artificially boosts up your win rate by relying on a specific tactic rather than the individual killers skill sets, thus eventually sky rocketing a killer player against survivors that have a lot more time/skill in the game, leading to a long series of devastating matches for that killer player. Of course, this doesn’t mean that in high MMR they will never be successful, as the stats show show that it’s not the case, but it still pushes that killer player into dozens of very high intensity and stressful matches that result in very unfun experiences regardless if they ended up winning or not. Unfortunate as it stands, I think MMR only tracks wins or losses, not how those wins were achieved or everything you did and then still lost. Something myself and I feel many others desperately want changed, as kills/escapes should not be the only metric of success /failure. The end result shouldn’t be the end all be all.
My hope is that whatever this new system is, highlights killers that need help and can receive buffs that they need so that they are not “limited” to playing one particular playstyle. And that will in turn result in more balanced matches that aren’t a stomp for either role.When it comes to players just blaming others for mistakes that they made, I’m afraid this is not a killer or survivor exclusive issue, it’s not even a DBD issue, it’s just a people issue. We’re playing with other people, not bots, and people are stubborn, prideful, sensitive. It’s part of the human experience. I’m sure you’ve met someoene at some point that did something wrong, but refused to take accountability for what they did and instead just blamed it on you or some excuse. Humans kinda suck sometimes lol.
In any case, I won’t further clog up your post any more, but it was nice to speak with you! I wish you luck in the fog and I’m sorry people were being nasty, if you ever want to vent or need to talk anytime feel free to dm me! Gliyn!
1 -
No, it doesn't appear to be thus. In all expectations, if this muppet had an issue with your charm, then it wouldn't matter if you let the team stun you with every pallet, blind you continuously, rack up a load of BP in chases and messing about, and let them all escape - that person would still condemn you.
However, your example is not tunnelling at all. Just bitter endgame chat.
2 -
Imo no it's not. Personally if they were just standing there I'd have slugged them rather than hooking them. Partially because it might have been DS bait and partially because they might of just needed to run to the bathroom but that's just me.
1 -
if you tried to make the game 3v1 as fast as possible, disregarding everything in the process.
No other definition.-1
