http://dbd.game/killswitch
How is The Ghoul balanced?
I love the collaboration with Tokyo Ghoul, it's great. Sadly, I cannot find myself having any fun when playing against this killer. Any exhaustion perk against him is useless because he can just catch up and he always gets a guaranteed first hit? When you manage to outplay his power with some obstacles he gains it back immediately, no reward for the survivor.
I like playing against a good blight (or even nurse) which both are S Tier Killers because there is some skill involved and you can outplay the killer if you know what you're doing, but this? No fun. The more I play against him the less I want to play this game.
Hope this gets better or different.
Comments
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he is completely balanced, his point is exactly the opposite of nurse or blight, he is simply good at moving around, the other too are decent on that, but since their movement is lethal, its inprecise, so you run away at the right time and gain distance, but in loops theyll excell on you, nurse ignores the entire thing and blight bumps his way to you with ease.
Kaneki is the complete opposite, no matter when, if you try running full W forward, he'll catch up, you need to find a very sharp loop and stay there, preferably an open loop, cause kanekis always slide, them in a short loop he will not be able to use the power well, becoming an m1 killer.
And exactly because of this survivors are finding him hard, we are too used to just use W to gain a bunch of seconds in any chase. I have myself already use the full W on a nurse and gained ground. When we are presented with a killer that is good against that we are broken untill we get used to how to not play like that.
But, when looping a kaneki, try finding open spaces with a tight loop nearby, if he is using power, go to the open, he will have very lil amount of places to go, then you apply the nurse logic, if he dashes in a direction, you go to the other… When he gives up the power and begins waling, jump in the tight loop, do quick vaults until everything gets blocked and go back to the open.
Also, when he locks on you, dont panic and cuss him, i see many people complain that he locks them and then gives a second hit, but they already could be running a long time ago.
Buy the character, play him enough to start seeing good survivor, learn how they will loop you
-19 -
He is not currently balanced.
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cause kanekis always slide
Yeah, he doesn't. He can fully cancel it even on first leap. You can't double back against him, because if this.
So your idea simply doesn't work. I would perfectly fine with him, if it worked like you think, but it doesn't.8 -
He isn't.
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he can only cancel the slide, if he has a place that holds him tight, what does not exist on an open tight loop, he need to throw himself at a wall to stop, if there are no walls, there are no brakes, i use that in game, and that works, principally on second floor loops like the saloon main one, if he dashes against the fence to close the gap there, he slides against the fence and drops to the street, every time, also coming from the "basement" to the front, he will many time fall on the hole if he uses his power
-9 -
He's not balanced at all. He has high mobility, he has the free injure potential of Legion, he has a deep wound mechanic, he has downing potential with his ridiculously short leap cooldown, he gets a scamper ability that can also freeze a survivor, AND if that wasn't enough, he gets Bamboozle and BBQ as addons. He seriously needs to be toned down, no character should ever have all of that at the same time. His kit is ridiculous.
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no, he can cancel it even in open by press of a button…
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he can cancel his power, allowing him to hit, but he dows NOT cancel the slide, he always move , thats inclusive how you get the easiest second hit with him, you throw yourself in front of the survivor, cancel mid air, and slide towards them already able to slap
-6 -
Ok, there is dash itself and then slide after every dash except last one, right? Just want to be clear, if we talk about the same thing.
Your expectation is, if he dash towards me, I should double back and he would slide past me, right?
Issue is this doesn't happen if he cancel during dash, it fully cancel his slide.
I tried it right now in custom game and I can fully cancel both dash and slide, which means I can simply press cancel when I am next to survivor.5 -
well it works, i loop em, i see more trouble against nurse and blight than a kaneki, the only bigger difficult he gives me is when he is not chasing me and my team just complains and take 5 second chases.
-9 -
Can we start closing these ghoul whine threads already? They all say the same thing and they're all mostly from a small group of people on Discord.
-9 -
Well, I am happy for you if you play against Kaneki, who also doesn't know how to cancel his dash.
That doesn't change the fact, the he can easily do it, so it doesn't really work….
So it seems like he isn't really balanced, when your whole counterplay is based on something, that is not true.10 -
Ghoul doesn’t = Balanced.
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that is not the whole counter play, i made a complete post about it, you just said something an experienced kaneki wouldnt fall for it, yet the tight loop still works, the open one too
-8 -
Even if that play would work with tight loop and open space… it is a specific condition which you have to look for on the map and on some maps it's rare. The counterplay for nurse and blight always exists.
And additionally to his high mobility he gets one free hit with deep wound, short leap cooldown and can vault pallets or windows fast if played right. So even with that specific counter play you're mentioning, I cannot see the balance.3 -
Yeah he isn't balanced at all, terribly designed, miserable to go against.
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When i made post that we should AT LEAST reduce his speed to 4.4m/s i got "skill issue" comments, "Kaneki would be bad", "He is only m1 killer after first hit".
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Nobody knows the meaning of m1 killer anymore LOL
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Well, you claim he is balanced under expectation he can't cancel his slide.
Well, then nerf him so he works as you think, so he can't cancel his slide. It wouldn't change how you view him and if you consider that balanced, he would become one.4 -
I don't even think he's that insanely strong, but the auto aim hitscan legion attack is horrendous game design. If it was only used to gain his power without injuring/deep wound people would have way less issue.
-1 -
Funny thing, I have a theory the only reason why it deep wounds survivors in the first place is to make it work against injured survivors. If it didn't, maybe survivors would just stay injured and force him to stay out of enraged mode all game
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He's never going to feel good as long as he has a hitscan auto injury. No other killer in the game looks in your direction and takes a health state. That's half the chase gone right there.
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Any exhaustion perk against him is useless because he can just catch up
The survivors when you can't just run to the yellow, proc Lithe and hold shift W:
-2 -
Also:
can't hold W
can't use windows
can't drop pallets
can't take protection hits
can't double back
It would be so nice, if it was just about hold W…11 -
Yes ghoul isnt balanced. Yet everytime i try to suggest changes i get downvoted to hell, the issue we have with him rn is that we need to give him some non biased nerfs... in one hand we have People that want to shoot kaneki dead like skullmerchant, and on the other side we have people who claim ghoul is perfectly fine....
as someone with over 80 hours on him now i would suggest the following changes.
1. Revert enrage vault speed to PTB - reason: ghoul has insane mobility, a free injure and can outplay loops with bodyblocking. Ghoul does not need his vault this strong when he already has other things that make him A tier.
2. Grab range and leap range need to be different , ghoul should only injure you within 8 meters of your leap, if you grab someone further then 8 meters you should only gain countdown (and still lose your power) - Reason: his grab is very easy to land because of the aim assist and it being hitscan, forcing ghoul to be closer to survivors would mean ghoul has to think about his leaps more and it allows for more survivor counterplay.
3. Minimum leap distance should be 3 meters down from 5 -reason: this QOL buff would make his power less clunky on indoor maps and when youre trying to body block.
Example of a body block
Also on a sidenote ghoul is currently bugged and only loses 1 token from a pallet kick, this should be fixed ASAP
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I don't see why you get downvoted so much, it's about finding a solution for both sides.
I don't want ghoul to be nerfed to the ground either, I play killer myself and I know that would suck hard. I just feel like he got too much going for himself and as a survivor you cannot do anything about it.
And I like your suggestions, especially the grab one. It's super frustrating when he still gets a free hit even though you're on the other side of a jungle gym and nowhere close to you.0 -
I'm probably the most forgiving person when it comes to the Ghoul; i don't care about auto aim, or easy injures, deep wound, or holding survivors in place. him grabbing you over vaults is really lame though.
I don't mind a good chase killer, as we all love Bubba. maybe I'd tolerate him more on old dbd maps with old DH but facing Ghoul on Haddonfield or some Cornwinds in 2025 is cruel and unusual punishment
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Some People Just cant get past their bias, they either never played ghoul a day in their life and want these insane changes that would kill him on the spot. Or you have people that bairly play against him and dont see that he does infact has issues that make him an unfun matchup. I personally dont mind playing against ghoul but he defo has parts of his kit that are just unhealthy ATM.
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Because its a pointless change that would only make kaneki feel worse to play, the annoying parts of ghoul dont get solved by making him 110
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Most of survivors proposed changes make him feel worse to play
-1 -
Boo hoo. I play huntress with 4.4m/s and on some loops i cant just wind up hatchet. I need to force that. Same would go for kaneki. 4.4m/s isnt that bad as everyone thinks it is. That would force him to use his power more, just like ping ponging blight or Wesker bound
-1 -
You can use windows and pallets, not in every loop, but that's not unique to Ghoul, you can't however mindlessly pre drop against him which together with holding W is what 95% is doing. There was comment on reddit yesterday that sums up Ghoul perfectly so I'll just quote
...knowing how to loop completely destroys the ghoul. He’s strongest in wide dead zones, but struggles in tight loops. His power is unable to down people, and you can abuse vaults/pallets to stop him from vaulting.
I’d honestly argue the exact opposite. The ghoul is very good at stopping players who only know how to engage in boring gameplay such as holding W and immediately wasting resources.
Same deal with Trickster. He’s alright if you’re caught in the open but gets absolutely destroyed if you’re able to loop.
Ghoul is the embodiment of "mad cuz bad" and since vast majority of survivors suck ass he's "miserable to play against". Notice how top comp players don't complain about him, he's not even in tier 1 balancing on dbdleague but t2 :)
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I would say you have to predrop pallet instead and now you say I can't do it?
If I wait and let him get close, he is free to latch on me and vault the pallet. Safe pallets is down, or 50/50 at worst…
Funny how even ghoul players can't decide what to do against him. All they can do is throw generic comments like "knowing how to loop", "he is just M1 killer".Notice how top comp players don't complain about him
Are you watching CompDBD? Because they don't like him and didn't ghoul even end some of their streaks (or it was just skirmish)?
Was it Knightlight who reported Kaneki for harrasment with resoning "played Ghoul"
The whole "he can't down with his power is joke". Especially when he can down survivors on vaults…1 -
Sadly he's pretty simple to play and has kit to everything. Free injury across 16m, free cancel to follow quick m1, scamper ability that either freeze you or autohit you and so many other things. I feel people defend him, because they want some really strong killer that doesn't require so much effort. Sadly, they can't make him fun to go against without reworking his kit. They nerfed him twice, but didnt really matter because they didn't nerf the correct part of his kit. He didn't have slide on PTB and was completely fine. Everyone shouted for slide basekit so here we are.
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Slide made him so much more fun to play imo, that was a good change.
He would be more fun to play against and more difficult to play as, if he couldn't cancel. That should be removed imo, that's the main thing why he is so simple to play as.
Either that, or really increase his fatigue, which would make even his mobility worse, not just chase and would kinda feel bad. Long fatigue never feels good.
I would definetly prefer just removing cancel, so he keeps his high mobility, it's just less viable in loops and survivors have chance to double back.-1 -
he is balanced. hes the only killer in the game that is punished for simply breaking pallets, and his one free hit is just the same as legions. You cant mindlessly hold W against ghoul like other killers, you have to actively loop.
-3 -
Big disagree, Legion has counter to his free hits, you can bluff pallet, stun him, outrun him… he can't down you by traveling right behind you and down you 1s later. Ghoul leaps onto you from 14m and automatically injures you. Comparing him to legion makes no sense. And legion atm is also in pretty rough spot in term of game health as everyone runs iri button, bamboozle and play the scamper style.
The breaking cooldown made it so he doesnt leap from loop to loop giving you absolutely no chance to make it anywhere. He still has multitool kit and excels at all of those.
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Nope. He only loses power tokens if the tokens are full when breaking pallets. So if he swings to you, you stun him and try to make distance and he breaks the pallet he has full tokens to chase you. Then if you don't stun he downs you. Then if you predrop he scampers and downs you. See the problem?
Comparing ghoul to legion is incredibly disingenuous and I think you know it. One killer looks at you and you get injured, no matter what. The other one can be juked, has to respect pallets and has to travel to your location to get the injury.
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Ghoul is perfectly loopable since he can't down survivors in his power
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The thing is that the survivor meta (which is pre-running, holding W and pre-dropping pallets) is so ingrained in the survivors minds that when BHVR releases a killer like Kaneki that negates this will get shunned by the survivors.
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Oh sure. Ghoul is "only an M1 killer" … who has insane map mobility, free first injure, pallet leap……
All the people who say "just loop" have no idea what they are talking about. Yeah, you can try to loop like any other killer, but the second you outplay them, it's not like you can just run to another tile because you get cut off. And on top of that, AGAIN, he can just leap over pallets and stunlock you, getting a free hit.
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The problem with the "Kaneki is an m1 killer" argument, is that if the Kaneki is good, that is only true at trash loops... which bear in mind, you're automatically injured.
What makes strong loops strong is the fact that walking around them takes time. Killers are normally forced to break these tiles and taking the time to break allows the survivor to leave to the next tile. If Kaneki does this then Kaneki isn't that hard to deal with at all...
A good Kaneki however, won't break the tile, as Kaneki can grab you over a loop with his enraged leaps. It is not hard to hit at all, because a good Ghoul will not let you leave the tile and will instead keep zoning you until he can grab you and vault. When he does, he heavily hinders you for a moment while he in turn also has the fastest recovering vault in the game, beating both Legion and Wesker...
What this means is if you're at any decent length tile, he can just grab you over the tile and gets a free m1, so traditionally strong tiles for survivors become weak tiles... no "m1 killer" can subvert strong tiles in this way.
The only place his vault isn't a problem is at already weak, crappy tiles... which he can just keep 50/50 mind gaming until you lose... you still can't leave tile cause he just catches you... and nobody can win 50/50s forever, and since you're auto injured, our "m1 killer" is basically playing like you're perma-exposed...
So basically playing against Ghoul tends to feel monstrously unfair. The only place you can fight back is at crap tiles, that you will eventually lose anyway against even the weakest of M1 killers. It just takes one decent fake from the Ghoul and that's it.
His nerfs at least make it so that trash Ghouls get run over... we don't have a Skull Merchant situation when a terrible player still often runs over much stronger players for free...
However a good Ghoul who is accurate and really knows what he's doing, it's like playing against Nurse... there isn't a lot you can realistically do, especially when he takes perks to make loops even less safe like Blood Favour and Bamboozle.
Post edited by UndeddJester on11 -
That's not even true in literal sense. He can down you with vaulting, which I would say is part of his power…
It's not even close to be true overall, when he can just fully cancel his dash next to you with lower fatigue than Legion.
Get rid of his ability to cancel his power and I am perfectly fine with him.2 -
Someone gets it…
I think devs simply nerfed incorrect things. I really didn't mind his leap range for example.
Pallet breaking was good nerf, but didn't really affect him that much, when he can just vault.5 -
Get rid of the ability to cancel his power? What, so he would have to wait 7 seconds or do unnecessary leaps to end the power?
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The thing is, you have no right to nerf killers that are under blight and nurse that do much more dmg to matches, until those dont get reduced, reducing others killers power level wont help in the big picture. And as a killer main…, hes is strong, and annoying needs a nerf, as well as nurse and blight, but those 2 need it much more urgently.
-6 -
remove his ability to cancel he doesn’t need it and would make it fair. Wesker can’t cancel and he doesn’t have a free hit.
1 -
I mean mid dash, so he can't fully cancel his dash and slide distance. I am fine with canceling after whole animation ends.
Issue is right now, he can do it on spot whenever he wants → right next to a survivor.1 -
your complains apply to legion as well, and if this killer takes away exhaust, guess why other killers are much worse than him because you can use the exhaust. The problem is not only the killer being overpowered but is the survis depending on exhaust to not ######### themselves. The moment you take away survis toys most people have no idea on how to play.
-6 -
Legion is so much worse than Kaneki….
Trying to hide Kaneki behind Legion is like hiding SWF behind soloQ.
Kaneki is better than Legion at everything except information.7
