http://dbd.game/killswitch
Vigil is a problem please nerf it.
Unless someone posts constructive responses I ask the devs ignore the down votes this will get by biased survivor players. I play both sides and this perk is broken. I think the AOE needs to be removed and it be cut down to half of what it is and some of the status effects removed. Blindness, Exhausted, and Oblivious should be removed. Either that or you need to start looking at syngeries and make it not work well or at all with some other perks. I'm sick and tired of the abuse with perks like Fixated and Sprint Burst. I wouldn't be surprised there are other broken builds with Vigil. It does too much. Also while I'm at it can we make Fixated not work with at bare minimum with Sprint Burst? I just don't get how you think this is all ok.
Comments
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It isn't broken, you need to adjust your playstyle to deal with Vigil strats.
Firstly, in the "worst case scenario", 4 vigils means 4 less perks in the trial that increase gen speed, increase healing speed, provide crucial info on killer, or that help with altruistic plays. This also rarely actually happens because Vigil is a good perk but not as strong as people are claiming. I would much rather run other perks as a survivor main. I used to use Sprint Burst and Fixated a lot and threw in Vigil sometimes, but I've moved on from that build because though it is decent, it is somewhat 1-dimensional.
Exhausted: in order to get really fast exhaustion recovery, survivors must group up closely since the Vigil effective range is only 8 meters. this gives you an advantage since split pressure is the most efficient way to complete the main objective. So even if all the survivors stay close to one another to abuse the Vigil effect, they're now making themselves easy targets for a snowball and aren't getting gens done, or if they are teaming up on a gen, their gen efficiency is greatly reduced. I've now addressed the "strongest" case argument for Vigil being "OP" due to stacking exhaustion, and now it is debunked.
Blindness/Oblivious: killers have tons of aura reading ability, so survivors having it too is fair, since survivor stealth has been heavily nerfed. How do you think survivor's feel when there are almost no counter to killers' wall hack builds? The counter to this is very easy, just don't solely rely on perks and playstyles which induce Blindness/Oblivious, just as survivors must not solely rely on remaining hidden the entire trial. Again, this is only in the rare case you have a 4-Vigil team. Since this extreme case rarely happens in practice, most matches still benefit from Blindness/Oblivious killer strategies.
If you're just complaining about 1 player in a match that takes advantage of a good synergy between Fixated, Sprint Burst and Vigil, then no nerf is warranted. There are plenty of ways to play around this playstyle. That player is dedicating 3 full perk slots to player movement, meaning they don't get increased gen speed perks, increased healing speed perks, killer info perks, and altruistic perks. They're strong in one department, and weak in most others. Identify the player's build early on and adjust accordingly.
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The perk's prevalence in today's meta ensures that all of the anti-healing effects wear off incredibly fast on top of status effects such as exposed and hindered that some killers depend upon with their builds and powers or used as a balancing factor with Shoulder The Burden. This is a huge nerf to duration-based perks such as Sloppy Butcher and Forced Penance, but at least Forced Penance prevents any healing entirely to prevent early brute-force healing.
The perk alone makes Clown's intoxication current duration a 0.6 seconds lingering effect now, and it can stack with others to make it even shorter. It completely kills Clown's purples without the killer realizing what is going on which will just lead to even more of the yellows being spammed instead which is not very healthy or engaging gameplay for either side.
Vigil + Sprintburst is the current Shift + W strat, and, unsurprisingly, the ones that it affects the most are low-tier killers who have little to no mobility and depend on using M1 attacks. We're also in a period of the game that has a bug going around that prevents bloodlust from being active which… affects low-tier killers. Stuff like this being so strong and prevalent is what makes Kaneki, Nurse, Dracula, and Blight so popular and powerful. They don't lose as much distance from someone pre-running, and can and will punish people for trying to do nothing but that strat.
When the game has something as strong as this, it discourages perk variety and can lead to other decent ones being ignored. BHVR sees these perks not being used and decides to buff them instead of asking themselves why the heavily used ones are so popular. I hope that they can see this feedback and take the proper steps to address it as the game is not in a healthy spot because of Vigil and its cascading effects.
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Only thing they need to do to it is to remove it stacking with itself.
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They don't need to remove any status effects from Vigil. It just needs a lower recovery percentage and to not affect killer powers
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The problem isn't Vigil it's Friends Until the End.
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Am I the only one who hasn’t really seen Vigil at all?
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Vigil recovering ALL statuses is too good. Its very problematic, broken perk (but not OP). It should either:
1. Recover exhaust only (if yall want add cooldown reduction for perks with cooldown for extra flavour)
2. Recover mangled / exposed / hemorrage
3. Recover all statuses mention above but at least remove AOE or stacking with itself
It doesnt need hinder, broken, oblivious, blindness recovery
Reason for being problematic is killers dont know who has its / when its working and its making weaker killers worse while top tier killers doesnt care at all2 -
It's stacked with other survivors, and that's the big problem with vigil.
To be honest, I don't think Vigil should work with killer powers like Freddy and Clown, as it makes their powers very useless.
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"Don't run status effects with timed durations"
Alright. Regression perks it is.
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Isn't that already the more popular choice?
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I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone else complain about Friends Till the End
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Uh huh. What's that got to do with alternative builds being harmed? The less viable you make other choices the less you see them. It's a matter of perk variety.
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I think a bigger problem in this game is use of perks like fixated and champion of light to abuse the chase mechanics and get chases to drop prematurely. It's really a broken system that needs to be fixed.. and especially so now with this latest patch because sometimes the chases simply do not even start until you hit a survivor.
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Agree. This perk counters two killers directly (Clown and Freddy) and three others to some degree (Nemesis, Houndmaster, and Unknown). No perk should counter killer powers in any given way. They even tweaked Unbound to no longer work with Wesker or Legion. Also, reducing the recovery rate because currently it counters 30 perks and 30 addons for free which limits the variety of killer builds even more and forces them to only run slowdown. It also makes already strong exhaustion perks even stronger. All that for free.
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Vigil does help with healing by counter Haemorrhage, Mangled and Broken. It also helps with altrusistic plays, you can recover nearby Survivors from effects faster. Most importantly it helps a ton with lasting longer in chase, which is free gen time for teammates.
First of all, 66% more charges per second is already really strong, you don't need to stack it. The range is also 16 meters, not 8. This easily allows people to recover by not being in danger range, especially on multistory maps. Also while teaming up on gens early on is bad, doing it with 2 or less gens remaining is actually pretty strong.
And no, Survivors getting the same aura as killers is not fair. Survivors have 16 total perk slots, killers have 4.O ne Survivor perk should not have the same capabilities as one killer perk.
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Yeah, that's part of why I don't like Vigil being so strong either, it further reinforces the meta for both sides (by encouraging meta for survivor and discouraging a lot of off-meta stuff for killer). Most of the killer perks that get countered by Vigil are not meta picks with a few exceptions. And overall it just has so much versatility and situations where it's useful, to the point where the recovery percentage really shouldn't be as high as it is.
Regarding it affecting killer powers - I don't think it should affect any, but it actually doesn't affect all of them, it's not consistent.
As of the current patch (9.1.0), Vigil affects Hindered from:
- Clown
- Freddy (it didn't used to, but now it does)
- Nemesis
It actually does not affect Hindered from:
- Unknown
- Houndmaster
- Skull Merchant
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My point is that it's a drop in the bucket if those perks aren't being used. I also agree there should be more perk variety, but I'm skeptical too of nerfing more Survivor perks to get there.
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It's not a good time needing to run multiple anti-exhaustion perks and addons to only sort of combat the strength of vigil/sprint burst.
You're not "streamlining" anything by adding bogus combos that cancel out the need to play well.
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I probably said this on some other thread, but I think they also just need to make it so that Vigil does not stack at the very least. And I'd also suggest making it so that you have to stay still and crouched for it to have any effect.
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It needs to not stack with other instances, and it shouldn't affect killer power status effects. Those are the only healthy changes it should get.
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Vigil itself isn't problematic. I have no problems with it cutting exhaustion, there are antiexhaustion perks. But it negates a lot of killer perks - antiheal and exposed. Exposed should be removed from it as exposed perks are mostly very short and it should not stack, same as prove. DMS is another perk that should be trully looked at.
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I agree and I think the recovery percentage needs to be reduced. I don't feel like removing stacking would be a sufficient nerf, even one instance of Vigil is too powerful imo. I'm not even sure that the stacking would be so much of a problem if the number wasn't so high to begin with, Vigil stacking never was a problem in the past until it was buffed. Now you effectively get more than what 2 stacked Vigils was worth before, for only having 1 of them, and that's a problem.
The range can stay at 16 meters, that part is fine.
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Yes, it can help with healing and altruism in that sense, but it still negates bringing stronger perks dedicated solely to altruism and healing, which is the point. Statistically, less perks like Botany Knowledge, Resurgence, Kindred and Bond will be run for every Vigil in a match, all of which provide superior healing and/or team information benefits.
Okay, 16 meters, that's still smaller than a terror radius, which is very close and still easy for a killer to snowball. Real split pressure means being spread out across the entire map, not all sitting on one or two gens within the killers terror radius. While I agree teaming up becomes more useful as the match progresses, early game is typically what determines the power killer has in end-game. So the vigil benefit from grouping up is still there, it's a case of too little too late if a competent killer knows how to snowball from the beginning. Multi-story effect barely comes into play most matches, except a map like Midwich which is already heavily killer-sided.
Survivors do not get the same aura abilities as killer with or without Vigil. Yes, a buff to survivor stealth and nerf to killer stealth is more fair, given the 60%+ kill rates in modern DBD and just how ineffective stealth playstyles are for survivor nowadays. Is Vigil a strong survivor perk? Absolutely. Overpowered? Nope.
Post edited by jedimaster505 on-4 -
but now vigil can reduce freddy's Hindered.
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SWFs using Sprint Burst 2 or 3 times in the same chase is just excellent.
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Vigil and DMS are two red perks that must to be changed. Anyone who disagrees on that shouldn't further comment on any balance-related posts as both perks hurt base mechanics of the game to the point where you just can't do anything about it at all.
Vigil problem: I run HM with sturstruck (30s exposed) two survivors on gen has vigil (8s exposed) or one survivor (17s exposed). Surely my entire build which requires downs and related builds is now useless. I run haunted grounds, excellent, two survivors on gen are exposed for 18s (instead of 60s) fair a hex perk. I run Alien instinct and survivor now has 40s oblivious alone, 20s if with someone else so I can't utilize it later. Fair, perk that destroys most of builds other than slowdowns, not only unfair but also not healthy for game variety.
DMS problem: Killer has up to 11 uses = 550s of blocked gens, on top of that it's great info perk, lot of killers can easily force it on every hook, it completely destroys solo q and any early game progress, it can be easily paired with perks like surge, infectious fright etc. that will autamatically force you of gen without any counterplay, it's a pocket perk so you have guaranteed use all the time. Makes mobile killers and gen related builds completely unbeatable. Grim = 10s 4x and 40s 1x for unique hooks completed, fine perk. Deadlock grants you 25s for gen completed, fine. Merciless storm is 20s for missing skillchecks. There is no way there should be perk like DMS that completely ruins solos (no, bad teammates are not reason to lose games to single perk), is very unbalanced with other perks that force it (grim…) is busted on killers that can easily get use of it all the time (artist, springtrap, knight, blight, kaneki, billy…)
Both those perks need to be tweaked heavily, solutions are simple:
Vigil: only one effect is applied = can't stack, value decreased to 30 % and exposed is removed from the effects affected.
DMS: base time decreased to 35-40s, now starts timer upon hooking, no more pocket perks. You can still heavily slow game with multiple uses but you can't just powercreep and ignore any other perks and mechanics.
Note to DMS: 5 triggered DMS slows game by over 3 gens worth progress, pain res that is limited by 4 uses doesn't even slow game by one full gen. By far if eruption meta was misery than this one is twice as horrible.
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as a person who loves vigil myself, just forbid stacking. Before being 40% it was useless and not great.
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This perk should just be completely reworked into something else entirely.
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No stop nerfing survivors perks/items this community is literally just one sided and only their voice is listen by mods, I'm just so shocked at bhvr that they only cater towards killers opinions! What about broken dms then? I doubt it will be changed😭
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2 things can be a problem at the same time.
Fwiw, I agree DMS should be looked at as well.
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