Kill Switch update: We have temporarily Kill Switched the Forgotten Ruins Map due to an issue that causes players to become stuck in place. The Map will remain out of rotation until this is resolved.

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Go-Next Epidemic Rages On

2

Comments

  • runningguy
    runningguy Member Posts: 1,021
    1. as you say people have been sent a clear message that tunneling wont have meaningful changes… with that in mind people should know its very much part of the game and likely to stay. At this point people need to decide, accept it and play the game or dont. But DCing after they have agreed to play the game knowing what the game is, thats what needs preventing which more DC punishments and prevention will help to achieve this. I wouldnt play an FPS game and then DC when something which is part of the game happens like someone shooting at me. i couldnt say the reason i DC is because im being shot at. This is whats happening, something that even the devs have pretty much said is part of the game is being used as a reason for DCing which is crazy. can you imagine if killers had the option to DC and go next as easy as survivors can? any time they get looped they would DC in a heartbeat because they could. would the solution be to stop loops or stop killers from being able to DC frequently?
    2. i dont think tunneling increased when the meta was 3gening and when matches took a lot longer. i didnt tunnel and i didnt come across tunneling as much as survivor either so i have no idea where you get that from. the whole point to meta is that its the most effective strat and commonly used. its a contradiction to say meta is one thing but majority are using a less effective strat.
    3. based on my own experience as killer and survivor the increase in DCing ties in with the time where abandon was introduced and survivors got the go next prevention nerfed along side the release of ghoul. People DCed long before that but its been since roughly march/april that DC really took off and has been getting worse as time goes on. when i say DC i include go next and abandon because they are all one in the same, a way for a player to not play the match and move on as fast as possible.
  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 2,969
    edited November 2025

    You could, though the game pace being to fast is also a common complaint. Though I think you're just being sarcastic about things I both didn't say and don't mean.

    I'm on record as saying that gen speeds can be addressed and likely the entire early game needs to be slowed down. But that has to start with limits to tunneling in the early game. Because we've already seen what happens when gens take longer and the answer is that people tunnel more because that also made tunneling easier.

    Fix tunneling and we can also address gen speeds. You can't fix gen speeds first, they tried and it demonstrably didn't work.

  • CorvidXCVIII
    CorvidXCVIII Member Posts: 83

    Sorry, I should've been more clear I was joking given the forum we're on haha. That being said an endgame only limited time mode could be fun for a game or two.

  • Lliart
    Lliart Member Posts: 213

    I would rather the slowdown of early game and limits with any tunneling be congruent with each other, as those are two GIANT changes that if either side got only one of, would ruin the game for all.

    That being said though, I truly don't think that would solve the issue of the go next epidemic. With a previous poster's observation, none of the reasons for DCing on first sight before any gameplay can be done are explicitly told to be tunneling. In the endgame chat, the DC reason is more often than not simply "Playing X killer that takes no skill" "I don't like X Killer, they're boring" "X Killer, what a loser" "X perk, [random threat here]" "Noob X Killer" and so on and so forth. While tunneling may be a symptom, I truly, TRULY believe it is simply just selfish individuals who would rather tank the game they queued up for instead of playing it through.

    Earnestly, I'd rather just have both of the top suggestions there enter at the same time, as well as the iteration of harsher penalties for successive disconnects.

  • CorvidXCVIII
    CorvidXCVIII Member Posts: 83

    Out of curiosity, what servers do you play on? I only ask because I've noticed my experience doesn't not align with people who play on NA servers like, at all.

  • runningguy
    runningguy Member Posts: 1,021

    im not saying do nothing. not playing the game is doing something. the devs will see the player numbers drop and take action to try correct the issue. But starting a match knowing whats going to happen and then DCing only ruins the game for the people that are actually playing it while keeping the player count up.

    the issue of being tunneled is because people dont get the chance to play the match…. tunneling someone out after 30min after the isnt tunneling. your trying to say the issue was tunneling when the issue was the meta not tunneling.

    there are far more people DCing now than there ever was in October 2024. they just use abandon instead.

    take it from a tunneler, nerf gen speeds and tunneling will be reduced. and if it doesnt get reduced then nerf it to the ground like the first ptb did. when tunnelers themselves are clearly saying why they tunnel and what will make them stop tunneling i think people should start to listen to the tunnelers. the only way you can say DCing is a direct result of tunneling is by saying you DC for that reason

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 2,969

    I would rather the slowdown of early game and limits with any tunneling be congruent with each other, as those are two GIANT changes that if either side got only one of, would ruin the game for all.

    Pretty much agree. Although we've already seen that big changes are nearly impossible to have go through in one go, and there appears to be a pretty vocal group who would be fighting to have any downsides removed and maintain the benefits. And, for the record, that applies to either "side".

    I truly don't think that would solve the issue of the go next epidemic

    I've said before that there's no "one size fits all" approach to addressing the go next issue. Some people are petty, and you can't really fix that. But trying to paint everyone as petty, and ignoring frustration in the process, isn't going to fix the other part of it either.

    There's a reason I try to focus on what we can actually fix. The "petty" issue was already targeted with increased dc penalties and forcing people to work off their dc debt. That hasn't solved the majority of the problem, because targeting the "petty reasons" isn't hitting the larger issues.

    We could double down and increase dc penalties. They already aren't fixing the problem, and we'll have this same conversation in a year about "it's just not quite enough punishment yet… but this time it'll really work".

    Or we could tackle the actual, demonstrable balance issues instead (for the first time in 9 years) and see what impact that makes.

    This "epidemic" came from somewhere, and I have no evidence that it's because a huge group of players somehow became petty overnight.

    Actually talking balance related problems would require people to accept change, not take the "simplest approach" and demonstrate the game skill most everyone claims to have already. And so far, we can't even get to the table to talk about what those changes might look like, because people appear to want "incentives and no limits", which have historically never worked, and we have the live game to show that.

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 2,969

    No worries. I've had people be sarcastic or serious.

    Out of curiosity, what servers do you play on?

    NA East, though the time of day might vary. My schedule is currently really erratic with the holiday, so if I play at all it's usually like 5pm to 8pm EST.

  • CorvidXCVIII
    CorvidXCVIII Member Posts: 83

    I'm EU based and yeah, my experiences with this game seem to be quite different from yours or Pulsar's (not discrediting either of you). All of the following is my experience, it most likely won't resonate with you but it's how things were for me.

    The 6.1.0 patch happened during the time DbD was an almost daily game for me and a couple of friends. It wasn't that update that lead to us all eventually drifting and I don't recall tunneling being any more or less common during it either. In fact, tunneling wasn't very common at all, especially compared to how it's been since I came back (just before Kaneki's release).

  • Nicholas
    Nicholas Member Posts: 2,124

    I agree, the game is basically Dead by Auras nowadays—too much aura reading. Faster killers, faster break and kick actions, less need to patrol (thanks to LED pistons), frequent aura reveals, and smaller maps have made it so that The Killer is often in chase 24/7. I rarely see The Killer not in chase. And the hopelessness of many Trials is a significant pain point too. And DbD needs players to feel HOPEFUL about Trials; it's an important motivator to keep playing, knowing there's a chance to succeed, but that hope has dwindled with each update.

  • CorvidXCVIII
    CorvidXCVIII Member Posts: 83

    The hidden EU advantage: we don't understand the toxic things people put in post game chat most of the time lol

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 22,970

    I've played on EU when the servers were all weird a couple years back. Definitely different, even accounting for ping.

    You and I both hope our friends will return and it'll be like the old days again. Much like you, I doubt that will ever happen.

  • runningguy
    runningguy Member Posts: 1,021

    there is a difference between backlash and intentionally being disruptive by breaking the rules, griefing is breaking the rules and should be punished now matter what reason they give for breaking them.

    if i was spawn camped and couldnt play i wouldnt play the game. i wouldnt start a match knowing i am highly likely to get spawn camped then DC and ruin it for the rest of the team. thats my point.

    by removing the DCers from the game it might lower player count but it would likely increase it long term when other people know their matches wont get ruined. i have friends that refuse to play the game because of people going next, swap the DCers out for the people that actually want to play the game. banning hackers lowers the player count, but allow them to hack and people wont want to play, this is what will happen if DCing is allowed to continue

  • runningguy
    runningguy Member Posts: 1,021

    i would say the game has an issue with spawn camping and when they fix it i will play again, until they fix it i wont play. thats a reasonable action to take. i would never repeatedly play the game knowing whats going to happen and knowing that my action of DCing when it does will negatively impact on my team. thats intentionally starting a game to grief my team which i wont do.

    if the people spawn camping said they need to do that to win and they will stop if they balance the weapons then the devs would do well to listen to the spawn campers, adjust the weapons so they dont need to spawn camp then take action to prevent spawn camping. everyone happy. spawn campers dont need to do that anymore and i would happily play the game again.

  • tes
    tes Member Posts: 1,223

    I like how we doing random “researches” without actual any proofs about people who don’t speak English so you conveniently can replace their actual opinion on any sentiment you want to see. Yeah, English community “so special” in this term.

    When people on this forum will finally learn to bring evidences before having audacity to speak about huge parts of community out loud like that :/

  • tes
    tes Member Posts: 1,223

    Even the fact people have audacity to speculate about what people probably differs from making me dying from cringe. This theory still used to support your opinion, and this is “whataboutism” I believe you are hating yourself shouldn’t be used.

    If you are THAT curious, I can welcome you with German and Russian community. U aren’t gonna be happy with your theory, because veterans from there more likely gonna despise your theory about them.

    I never seen so much complaints about tunneling rather than on this forum from purely English Speaking people. And I saying this as person who was welcomed with DBD firstly not through English community.

  • UnicornMedal
    UnicornMedal Member Posts: 1,569

    Without agency, there's no reason to engage. The game hasn't fully entered the realm of comp. title either, so I don't see any reason why queuing up while fatigued should be so heavily punished. The queue is still running, is it not?

    That's the issue with where the game is right now, in my opinion. It's designed to enforce an imbalance, regardless of how it feels, and then players that are tired of feeling like they're at the mercy of things beyond their control or their skill level are being punished for not enjoying themselves. And the solution? Calls for harsher punishments.

    Unless we can course correct, I don't see the game thriving ever again. It will likely end up on life support, I think.

  • UnicornMedal
    UnicornMedal Member Posts: 1,569

    This assumes too much, in my opinion. You would have to argue that the amount of people upset over DCs/giving up outweighs the amount of players who do or will do it in the future. And that in the end, that will be a net positive for the game.

    You could be right, but given how the anti-go next system performed, I don't think that's the case.

    I've said this for a while now, but I think the ideal course of action would be to make DCs less harsh to both parties overall. Less punishing to do, less punishing to be affected by. Anything more or less introduces far too many problems, as we've seen this year.

  • runningguy
    runningguy Member Posts: 1,021

    i would honestly love to see DCing less harsh for killer and survivor. if DCing is bad now, its nothing compared to what would happen if people could DC on a whim. forget lobby dodging, match hopping would be the norm. start up, oh its coldwindfarm….DC. someone wants RPD….join a match and if it takes 10 matches…DC every single one untill RPD comes up.

  • UnicornMedal
    UnicornMedal Member Posts: 1,569
    edited November 2025

    For a mostly casual game, I don't think that's a big deal. The old system was a mess (talking pre-2022 ish), but we have bots that fill the gap. The Killer is able to DC when it's all bots as well (if I'm remembering correctly). The only other improvement they can make is to backfill lobbies during a trial, but that might not be super well recieved.

    I really believe a lot of it boils down to entitlement. They don't want to play against bots, but they also don't want the game to be improved so that the fatigue isn't so strong.

  • runningguy
    runningguy Member Posts: 1,021

    and when players just stop playing because every match turns into a bot custom game? kill rates would shoot through the roof because bot kills are way easier than players, hard nerfs would be due to even out the kill rates, killers that play actual people get steam rolled because they have been unfairly nerfed based on bots, killers stop playing killer role. even survivors wouldnt bother playing because every match they would be 1 player and 3 bots v a killer. thats 1 sure way to kill a pvp game lol let people start a match, DC, repeat.

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 2,969

    I don't see any reason why queuing up while fatigued should be so heavily punished. The queue is still running, is it not?

    I mainly agree. I wouldn't go as far as to remove a dc penalty entirely, and I think having something to give players a bit of pause or even consequence for doing so is a good thing.

    Basically, what we have now is enough to prevent unintentional disconnects like Internet, power, or even server issues from overly punishing innocent players, but still something to keep people from fully lobby shopping.

    I don't know that I would really change much about the current system either direction, but I honestly put much thought into it. I don't really sit around dreaming of punishing other players like some people seem to.

    I certainly don't think that the people who continue to scream "punish them" really have the game's best interest at heart, and some seem to be taking the "power role" concept too far and trying to apply it outside of game as well. (This also applies to how some people talk to the devs like they own them, but I digress)

    Unless we can course correct, I don't see the game thriving ever again. It will likely end up on life support, I think.

    I generally agree. It is apparently a cycle of applying punishment, when that doesn't work demand more punishment.

    "The beatings will continue until morale improves" and "if brute force doesn't work, you aren't using enough".

    I think that there are fixable issues at play, and can be addressed, at least in principle. But if people continue to "not allow" the devs to impact any pain points at all, then the game will simply diminish at some point.

    Probably not "die" outright, but certainly the target audience, or even the core game will change (if, say, 2v8 becomes permanent). But even now, the same cycle of conversations is attempting to take 2v8 from a casual, loosely balanced, party game mode and force it into competitive balance. Which is what has already happened in the main game, for better or worse.

  • UnicornMedal
    UnicornMedal Member Posts: 1,569

    Players have already stopped playing. And we've seen their solutions to that this year—larger incentives, more bots, and Play While You Wait. It's not a good enough excuse to defend increasingly harsh penalties toward DCing in my opinion.

  • runningguy
    runningguy Member Posts: 1,021

    they havnt stopped playing, player numbers are still up according to the figures and have been steadily increasing since 2021 (a big spike with fnaf) but its settled down and still the numbers are up. let people DC on a whim and watch the player count drop. its a pvp game, if people have to play with bots they simply wont play and the numbers would show it.

  • Zuiphrode
    Zuiphrode Member Posts: 547

    People who leave after the first down/hit/hook should be harshly punished, starting with an hour ban and going from there. They are ruining the game for four other people.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 22,970

    I do not understand, can you try to restate this?

    Also as a funny aside, I took a couple of classes once upon a time to learn German and Russian, amongst other languages.

  • UnicornMedal
    UnicornMedal Member Posts: 1,569
    edited November 2025

    I agree completely.

    For me, it's not about removing the DC penalty but making it less punishing. I think the ritual of having to wait out a penalty in-game and spending 20 trials to clean the slate is frankly bizarre. Cryptic said in another thread that it only encourages you to play more while tilted, which I really agree with. The old system was better about that by letting it count down while you're away from the game, but the penalty went too high there as well. For the scope of DBD (and all of its issues), I really do think a 30-minute max penalty would be ideal. I also think bots need to be introduced for when Killers DC as well. Anything more than that feels excessive.

    And absolutely. When I see people upset about it, it almost always seems to boil down to control. They feel entitled to players that have queued up, even if there's nothing at stake. Then they quickly move into guilt tripping: "how do you feel ruining 4 other peoples' experience?". That's incredibly dramatic and manipulative in my opinion. How many mechanics make the game feel unfair? We saw a record level of backlash against limiting camping/tunneling/slugging, which to me is a form of giving up on the 4v1 as Killer. But ruining someone's experience there is OK. They really show their bias, I think.

    Post edited by UnicornMedal on
  • runningguy
    runningguy Member Posts: 1,021

    yet new players mean they are playing the game, not just replacing old players but the player count is increasing every year. not the sort of thing you would see if people are quitting

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 22,970

    You don't really see a lot of growth either though.

    The game has remained functionally stagnant since 2021. Popular licenses can only increase the stats for so long. Usually about ~ 6 months. Tokyo Ghoul, FNAF and TWD are all very popular. They've kept the numbers quite high. If January is ST, this current inflation will continue. It will come back down though, right around the average again.

  • UnicornMedal
    UnicornMedal Member Posts: 1,569

    The numbers spike every time there's a new license, which is expected. But as we've seen from the incentive counter, the game is constantly lacking enough players. Historically so with 2v8. Stronger numbers during a big release only imply a higher turnover rate outside of those releases.

    Likewise, it's a PVP that's intentionally unbalanced. How many people are clamoring to play those over time? I'd argue that at this point, more people are logging in to play dress up and record griefing compilations than to actually enjoy the game.

  • runningguy
    runningguy Member Posts: 1,021

    incentive counter has been pretty standard. about 100 to 150 for survivor, occasionally switching to 100 for killer. based on my killer matches it doesnt seem like people are logging on to play dress up lol. they sweat like no tomorrow

  • runningguy
    runningguy Member Posts: 1,021

    regardless of whats causing it, players are still playing which is my point. when numbers drop then there is a problem, untill then people are playing….they might be DCing every match but they are playing at the moment

  • naeveragedjoe
    naeveragedjoe Member Posts: 75

    wait could be fun though... one hook tag mode with survivors losing a life and respawning after being downed. the main objective would be damage generators to cut power and leave before gates closed xD

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 22,970

    I think it's perfectly fine to speculate, which is what I was doing.

    I am sorry you have such a conflict in your personal life. I couldn't imagine.

    I do not understand this third paragraph.

    Yes, different regions have different styles of play. It isn't controversial that point that out. They may as well be different games with how differently some regions play.

    Yes, that is correct. I do not believe in continuing in an action that has only ever failed. Why not try something different?

  • CorvidXCVIII
    CorvidXCVIII Member Posts: 83

    That sounds incredibly dull, I can totally understand not wanting to play when that's a regular occurrence.

  • tes
    tes Member Posts: 1,223
    edited November 2025

    I doubt you are gonna be so happy about speculation if suddenly it will touch casualty and level of play of NA region. But I just assume double standards convenient for many uses on this forum. Just again — it’s not good speculating about something you don’t have actual reasons and hints for. Just looking bad. NA not a poor victim here who is suddenly just getting tunneled more often, while other regions in obliviousness because more rare facing with this “issue”. For starting such speculations u also need stats or sth, not few days playing on EU.

    DC penalty was failed because BHVR can’t code properly and system was targeting different people, not actual griefers. Maybe instead of switching to something else forcing them to fix mistake first?

    I understand “it’s not working” complaint when we actually tried this system. It didn’t happen. Punishment wasn’t established so saying “it doesn’t work” is loud and not objectively true. Stick didn’t touch them actually, moreover, they always were encouraged, as much as lobby dodgers.

    For punishment actually working apart from ban for matchmaking this game need proper SBMM. People who are DCing like this must to play with people like them, not normal one who still want to play the match. Answer is simple. Indulging their whims is speculative, and it's better to ask why people who are indifferent to the experience of other players in a match suddenly deserve the right to be prioritised.

    Again. If u are frustrated to the state you can’t play the game, you don’t play the game, or, play with people like you. Wait in 5 min queue only to see your teammate DCing on 5 gens. This is the only solution.

    For compromise a surrender option for whole team have to exist, I don’t deny it. But for whole team. So other players don’t need to experience bad match because of some situation that makes playing pointless. If u give a carrot to such players, you're just showing them that they did the right thing and they should do it at every opportunity to get what they “deserve”.

  • dallonjay
    dallonjay Member Posts: 3

    Getting rid of the ability to unhook ourselves without perks/offerings and giving the killer an instant mori on last down survivor is where the fun ended for me. That rush when you randomly unhooked yourself during end game just before second hook was awesome. Or wiggling free from the killer as he looks for a hook only to escape and find hatch? Unreal fun. Also makes the killer less likely to slug the second last surviror just to root out the remaining survivor

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 22,970

    Still unsure of what the problem is. I made no definitive statements. Merely guessed that many English-speaking CC's have been pushing tunneling and proxying for years, so it makes sense that we saw an uptick in tunneling on the most English-centric server before other servers started to see the same trends. This was in direct response to another user saying that they didn't see tunneling increase at the same times that we did.

    No system is going to nab everyone. The more restrictive you get, the more innocent players you take with.

    You have a timeout that can only be cleansed by actually sitting in the game AND it increases until you clear 20 games. It's a real punishment. The issue is that we've now shifted back towards people giving up in other ways, exactly as I predicted.

  • Volcz
    Volcz Member Posts: 1,298
    edited November 2025

    I don't think this problem will ever be 'fixed'. You can't police people into staying in a match they deem unfun or unfair. Whether their reasoning is valid or not to you, does not matter to them.

    "but they ruin the match for the 4 other players" - They don't care about that. That is not important to them. Never was.

    Of course we'd all like good quality matches w/ little to no worry about disconnects but I don't think that will ever be a thing, especially considering we've had the same default quickplay 1v4 for 9+ years w/ BHVR just slapping bandaid after bandaid on.

    There are no stakes, no real rewards, the 'system' that grades you on skill is absolutely awful, the matchmaking itself is awful, etc. Frustration comes from numerous avenues.

  • tes
    tes Member Posts: 1,223
    edited November 2025

    Merely guessed that many English-speaking CC's have been pushing tunneling and proxying for years, so it makes sense that we saw an uptick in tunneling on the most English-centric server before other servers started to see the same trends

    From where you get such guess that this was pushed aggressively purely in English community if you are not even was in other one? I literally said you: no, it's not true. Tunnelling isn't more common on English speaking community regions. I played on Asian and EU servers. BHVR didn't provide any stats in this regard. So I’m wondering again, why continue to do this if more likely this guess is ultimately wrong.

    The only difference is the reaction on it. The problemacy of it discussed so aggressively only on this forum, won’t deny it. But tunneling and its frequency is relatively same on every region. Before claiming different even as assumption try to prove otherwise at least. I am asking: “Can you support your opinion or it's just a simple projection to support your sentiment instead”.

    Still no answer, only attempts to normalize random guesses that affects on discussion.

  • Lliart
    Lliart Member Posts: 213

    See I would be way more understanding of the disconnecting if it weren't at the beginning of the match where nothing has happened yet. The people I'd rather punish for DCing aren't the people that are dead on hook anyways mid-way through after 8 hooks for the team, nor the people who disconnect when the game is being wrapped up in the end game collapse.

    I just want to see the players who see a killer that is otherwise inoffensive in terms of power-type and choose to disconnect punished appropriately for effectively causing the game to go be swayed because of a selfish whim.

    Once more, I do want to clarify that the irrational fear folks are fine in my book. The folks that cannot hear the sound of vomiting, the folks who have issues with fungi, THOSE people are fine. It's the people that disconnect on a match versing Wraith when they see it's Wraith and leave the rest of the team with the metaphorical bag.

  • tes
    tes Member Posts: 1,223

    I’m telling about actual punishment. Which means such people playing with same people and that they should be more rare allowed for matches if they abuse DC button or go next . If they don’t want to play, then they aren’t playing until cool off. @Volcz in this terms are completely right, until rewards and proper matchmaking not existing, actual discourage of such behaviour won’t work.

    20 matches to “cleanse” isn’t a punishment. This is a stupid redemption that doesn’t work. Only encouraging people inclined to such griefing playing even more and triggering this behaviour more frequent. Punishments for DCes never was properly executed, no reason to pretend so. Punishment means discouraging and preventing, not only discouraging.

    No system is going to nab everyone. The more restrictive you get, the more innocent players you take with

    Than on conceptual level attempts to remove tunneling and harder punishments of this gonna fail even on theory level, so you can’t and shouldn’t try to decintivise it by your own logic. Never. Without “but”, “if”, “what”, “it’s different” and double standards. It either working on every term, or person who claim different are biased and afraid to accept this.