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Go-Next Epidemic Rages On

Lliart
Lliart Member Posts: 212

The Go-Next epidemic feels like it has continued full speed ahead. I've seen all the reasons by now, as I'm sure many of us have by now.

"X Killer is unfun to play against"
"X Perk is unfun to play against"
"You tunneled"
"You camped"
"You slugged"
"You are toxic"
"I know how the game is going to end, so why bother?"

However, more often than not, the ones who disconnect aren't in the middle of a match when the game is drawing to a close. No, this is usually at the beginning at the match. Upon being found at 5 gens, upon being hit, upon being downed, upon being chased, upon being punished for a poor choice or play. I've watched folks from a distance just disconnect over the frailest infractions and leave a scathing message in the end game chat when that survivor barely gave the game a chance to play out. It's maddening to watch and even more maddening to try and salvage a disconnect with a bot in game. Something needs to be reconciled or put back in place to punish these players from ruining games just because of something that happens at the beginning of the game. We had disconnect penalties before, but from what I can recall, those have been turned off with nary a punishment in sight for those who choose to quit early.

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Comments

  • BlackRabies
    BlackRabies Member Posts: 1,294

    Entitled survivors will never be happy until the power role that the killer needs to keep hold of is completely destroyed.

    Can't ever have fun anymore as a killer player when survivors don't even try to play or improve and instead they'll just D/C and/or throw every slur at you for just playing your role.

  • mecca
    mecca Member Posts: 551

    Survivors need comeback mechanics so you have reasons of finishing a match. For example, A Blight with Lethal Pursuer and wall hacking aura perks is not fair to verse.

    Everything of survivors was nerfed so Distortion is not even a viable option.

  • tes
    tes Member Posts: 1,143

    ”A Blight with Lethal is not fair”

    “Distortion is not an option”

    Distortion with 1 token from the start being literally a direct counterplay of lethal pursuer, nuh? While lockers directly counterplaying bbq and it’s easy to assume it?

  • tes
    tes Member Posts: 1,143

    But Lethal Pursuer is literally working once and you get more tokens being in chase with distortion later? And what the constant wallhacks? I get such complaints on Nurse, but lol on him it’s much better then hex build or full slowdown.

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 10,334

    Cheaters in general need to be delt with but also note that thats not a solvable issue. Cheating can only be mitigated at best.

    DC penalties are needed because there are more immature players than cheaters playing.

  • BongoBoys
    BongoBoys Member Posts: 265

    Make DC penalties harsher and make reportable Go-Next button so you can report people for going next

  • Lliart
    Lliart Member Posts: 212

    This however is that mind set of forgone conclusions. Just because someone is found first does not always mean they'll die on that first hook. In addition, this overlooks the people that will disconnect instantly because they hear a terror radius they do not like. The fact of the matter is that one person going down between 2 to 4 minutes is not a doomed match and still has the possibility to come back.

    If that were the case, all four survivors would disconnect from the start. Most cases Are a domino effect caused by one selfish individual who disconnects, followed by the rest slowly over time.

  • MoZo
    MoZo Member Posts: 741

    iirc the Go Next prevention feature is still killswitched to this day🤣

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 2,958

    So, I never said dying on first hook. Tunneling is meta, and has been for a while. So being found first just means that you're also likely to be chased off hook to death without doing much else. You can't do gens, be altruistic, do challenges, etc.

    And for the other three survivors, that means staring at a progress bar and hoping that your teammate can hold out long enough with map RNG, matchmaking, loadouts, and other factors.

    And, being meta, it isn't necessarily a "forgone conclusion" as much as the expected outcome from constant exposure and frustration.

    I've always said that people can be petty, but that's always been the case. We don't get an "epidemic" and increase because people are "more petty" suddenly. They're "more frustrated" because they just announced that nothing meaningful is going to be done about tunneling for the foreseeable future.

    And, to make the point twice over: they revamped the dc penalty a year ago because people claimed then that "the dc epidemic is only pettiness, and they should be punished". Well, that hasn't solved it, and that's because the dc penalty targets the wrong problem (people being petty).

  • BongoBoys
    BongoBoys Member Posts: 265

    False because the DC penalty system is to loose if we continue tighten it we will see less people doing it.

    Its not abusable since the moderation team will be going over it and judge it for themselves.

  • vol4r
    vol4r Member Posts: 875

    So we prefer to punish surviviors more - I am not even surprised.

    We don't care that a lot of people might not like to go against nurse, blight, or anything else.

    Surviviors can't have preference, because they are the bad guys.

    I've been proposing killer banning system, but everyone thinks this is a terrible idea.

    We wouldn't atleast have that much DCs, if we could let people not to go against killers that they don't enjoy.

  • Leon_van_Straken
    Leon_van_Straken Member Posts: 359

    You quque up at your own, nobody is pressuring you to do it. And you know that these Killers could be your enemys. But I will give you an example why "I dc because I don´t like the Killer" is a terrible take.

    First game Nurse. "Nah I don´t like this Killer NEXT" (congratz you ruined the game for 4 other players)

    Second game Blight: "Nah I don´t like this Killer NEXT" (congratz you ruined the game for 4 other players)

    Third game Clown: "Oh I like to face clown, but my teammate hates him so he goes next" (congratz your game and for 3 players got ruined)

    Fourth game Legion: "Nah I don´t like meding sim NEXT" (congratz you ruined the game for 4 other players)

    Fifth game another Nurse: "Damn why again her?"

    And so on. You would never find a match which makes everyone happy.

    Banning Killers would be horrible aswell:

    1. Quque times would go up and some killers would never get a game
    2. How many bans should everyone have? 1? 2? 3? If they get 3 you could ban 12 Killers.
    3. It would be abused as hell by bully squads.
  • vol4r
    vol4r Member Posts: 875

    This would need some thoughts and could be implemented well.

  • Leon_van_Straken
    Leon_van_Straken Member Posts: 359

    It "could" work but I am afraid it will get abused to witch hunt killers.

    As seen with Skull Merchant. Ofcourse she was strong and annoying but most of the players had no clue how she even worked.

    Now people are demanding that ghoul gets the Skull Merchant treatment.

    Imagine if some "toxic" content creator calls to arms to ban Springtrap all the time (Not because he is OP but he doesn´t like FnaF) Now a big chunk of his followers do his bidding and Springtraps are in endless quque times.

    This community has a big problem and I don´t say it to sound evil or smart but many of Survivors and Killers can´t think on their own. And I will give you examples for these.

    99gates to avoid bloodwarden. There was a time where bloodwarden was a threat but in todays Meta you barely see it and most of the time you know all perks of the Killer long before the endgame collapse. Still many Survivors are hanging on this advice even if the most players don´t know why.

    Another example happend to me "Don´t cleanse against Plaque" While this statement is true to deny her her power there are some exceptions. My last game against Plaque was on Haddonfield and she had the Addon equipped that she gets her power when a gen pops. So all of us had been broken while she camped from the roof of a building the hook on the street. So i cleansed myself and unhooked my mate before he went second stage and got hit once but escaped the snowball. But after we made it to safety the other two mates gave up. Why do you ask? Because I cleansed vs her and now game is over.

    From time to time it is good to follow your own logic and not repeated "propaganda"

    Before someone says I only say things against Survivors… Killers follow the same scheme. "You must tunnel the first one or you can´t win" "Slugging is always better than hooking" These are in a kind right but not always. Think for yourself not what others tell you to do.

  • CorvidXCVIII
    CorvidXCVIII Member Posts: 81
    edited November 18

    There are a lot of things I don't like going against in this game. I play Pig primarily, followed by Legion, both of these killers get absolutely wrecked by players using out of game communication. Should I be able to opt out of playing against SWF for the same reason you believe you should be able to opt out of playing against strong killers?

    Post edited by CorvidXCVIII on
  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 10,334

    Being found first isn't a death sentence. Survivors that DC because of it don't wait to see if the killer will play in a way they prejudge them to play. They DC before being picked up.

  • OnryosTapeRentals
    OnryosTapeRentals Member Posts: 1,777

    The going next epidemic is just one of a thousand ways Survivors sabotage their own role and then blame it on the Killer.

  • Chrarcq
    Chrarcq Member Posts: 46
  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 10,089

    Bhvr just refuses to actually address the issue. They keep adding new ways for survivors to abandon and luck offerings still allow you to #########.

    Ultimately bhvr wants to cater to a group of entitled people and it's frankly going to kill the game.

  • runningguy
    runningguy Member Posts: 753

    i dont see a connection with DCing and tunneling. the reasons people give for DCing have nothing to do with tunneling. reasons such as "dont like the map" or "oh pyramid head, dont like that killer" "my team mates are avoiding gens so why bother looping if no one is going to do gens while the killer is chasing me". people DC over anything and to blame it on tunneling being the core problem is avoiding the whole point which is people will DC a match they are not interested in playing if they are able to. stopping tunneling wont stop people from DCing over a map they dont like.

    would you tell killers they should wait untill they are sure of whats happening…..this is exactly what many survivors are saying to killers. "its ok to tunnel when you need to, maybe mid to end match but dont do it at the start at 5 gens". this is telling killers dont tunnel untill you know whats happening and know you need to.

    you say tunneling is expected which is why people DC, they know whats coming. If its expected and know whats coming, why bother starting the match? The know whats coming and yet they decide to play knowing this, then DC ruining it for other people.

  • Leon_van_Straken
    Leon_van_Straken Member Posts: 359

    I give you some credits.

    Yes Gen rushing is less common in games but who has fault on that?

    Is it the Killers fault or is it little Timmy and little Jessica which are doing boons and searching through chests?

    The big problem as Killer is you only know what you are going against when the game is over.

    If you try to spread hooks maybe you got the nice little lobby of goofing survivors or you get an efficient team which has all gens done when you go for your third hook.

    I know that not many will approve with me in this point but sadly Survivors dictate the game. You are the one going in the game with a plan. This can be different plans. like I will sabo any hook I see, I will use Head on into Ds into flashbang because I think it is funny or Lol dude lets go 4 man and rush the hell out of gens.

    The Killer has to react to this and sadly the most efficient way is to tunnel and to slug. Don´t get me wrong, I don´t like this either but if you go for a walk with a survivor for a minute there is a huge difference if 0 Gens get done because they are goofing around or 3 gens pop and you think. Damn I should try to play if I want to win.

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 2,958

    I'm not excusing anything, to be clear. I'm trying to explain the exasperated, frustration that can lead to this behavior.

    Because everyone can feel this, and killers describe the same feelings of hopelessness. If you read my first statement, I deliberately write it to be "side neutral" because "the match being decided in the first 2 minutes" is everyone's complaint.

    People shouldn't dc, unfortunately, they are. And unless or until we start addressing some of those reasons they do, it likely won't get any better.

    But, we seem to be incapable of addressing any of the reasons people get extremely frustrated that leads to this behavior.

    And, again. This isn't intended to be a "one size fits all" solution. Petty people and petty reasons exist. But we don't get a "massive, epidemic level uptick in giving up" because people suddenly get more or became petty, immediately.

    But addressing the core reasons would require change, and in some cases that change is absolutely unconscionable to some very, very loud members of the community, and the devs back down and do nothing meaningful about the problem.

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 2,958

    the reasons people give for DCing have nothing to do with tunneling. reasons such as "dont like the map" or "oh pyramid head, dont like that killer" "my team mates are avoiding gens

    You are very confident to know everyone's thoughts and intentions. Congratulations on being psychic. (You're wrong).

    Petty people and petty reasons do exist. However, you do not get an "epidemic level" uptick in a problem because "people became petty overnight". That isn't how things work, and doesn't fit your pre-concieced idea of this, and because of that you can't even get around it.

    There's also this narrative of "can't fix the problem, do nothing" that people have been pushing. Because they really want the "do nothing" result.

    you say tunneling is expected which is why people DC, they know whats coming. If its expected and know whats coming, why bother starting the match?

    Here's the thing. And I'll explain this to everyone reading who only comes at this from a killer mindset:

    You don't play survivor with the expectation to escape every game. You're going to lose at some point, and death is going to happen. That's the devs goal with a 40% escape rate. They've said as much.

    Why bother starting any match if you're going to lose? Oh, wait. People do, maybe because they get to do a variety of things, and play a "well rounded game" with some killer interaction, some time out, altruism, quest progress, working on gens, hiding, and so on. Survivor can be fun.

    And you go into a match with the idea that that could happen, and sometimes does. You get that, unique DbD speaking hit of having played an actually fun match... Even if you didn't personally survive that match. Sometimes. Until sometimes becomes "rarely".

    And people chase that experience. But when you get game after game of "the killer has decided to play the tunneling card at the start of the game" that gets frustrating. Then burnout once it happens too long.

    I'm speaking from experience, not as someone who disconnected or gave up, but someone who has completely stopped playing survivor because it stopped being a good experience most of the time.

    And the reasons it stopped being a good experience are things that people vehemently defend and refuse to allow the devs to address core problems such as putting any kind of limitation or restriction on hard tunneling whatsoever.

  • Leon_van_Straken
    Leon_van_Straken Member Posts: 359

    As I said… I am not a friend of tunneling or slugging either, cause I am a Survivor main aswell.

    The problem is the bigger picture of what could happen. The could is the important part.

    I have not the exact time of how fast the fastest escape was. But if I remeber correctly it is under 3 Minutes.

    Just the possibility that this exists and could happen to you lets some people go for such tactics because we all play to win at the end.

    Let me break it down for you.

    Imagine you are playing Doctor. You have to run to the other side of the map, find the Survivors, they pre run. You need 10 to 20 seconds if (that is important) they don´t loop you at all. You hit them and they get a sprint burst in a straight line. You need to catch up again and if they don´t loop again you get an easy down. You pick the survivor up and bring them to a hook and hook them.

    This "easy" down (Easy because the Survivor didn´t try to loop you) took other a third of such a game even if I scale the numbers down.

    1. Finding Survivor 20 seconds.
    2. Catching up and hitting the Survivor 10 seconds
    3. Catching up and hitting the Survivor again 10 Seconds
    4. picking up and carrying him to hook 5-10 seconds

    And now there are people who say "Well take your time and look if Survivors are really trying to Gen rush you" If I take time in this example with an easy to catch survivor which didn´t loop or predrop a single pallet more than half of the game is over.

    I know these games are not the norm but belive me or not the 4 man slug on 5 gens isn´t normal aswell. If this happens the Killer has to hit 8 Survivors which could use Shift W while all other sit on Gens. If they don´t sit on gens it is not the Killers fault only the Survivors.

    Is it ######### to get tunneld out while you team does exactly nothing. Ofcourse it is. But if and i speak hypothentical here "IF" you run into a team which does something you are not able to spread hooks and go for a friendly 12 hook.

    I am honest with you I wish it could be different but all I see right now is that if the Killer goes for a 12 hook game and archives it. Than we would have lost in any other way aswell. Is it MMR fault or my mates which do nothing I can´t tell.

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 2,958

    I have not the exact time of how fast the fastest escape was. But if I remeber correctly it is under 3 Minutes.

    The fastest 4k was just over a minute to slug everyone. The longest win streak was over 2000 by blight. And even the best 4 man SWF could barely hit 240.

    Pretending that world records are somehow your "common, everyday experience" is just disingenuous.

    I personally don't see a ton of value with using extreme outliers for conversation because most people agree that the game shouldn't be balanced around the extreme elite, and should be balanced more for the average player.

    Imo. Part of balancing for the average player also means they should be choosing different strategies at different times of the match or in different circumstances. This is true for survivors: you can even plan to "gen rush" but is the killer chases you, you are forced to be decent in chase, your game knowledge of countering that particular killer kit is tested, you need to know how to use loops, pallets, and check points effectively.

    But killer doesn't have that equivalent "change your tactic". You can tunnel at the start of the game, and never have to change strategies. Even though nearly everyone recognizes that spreading hooks is generally considered higher skill than not doing so... So why are people clutching so tightly to a simple strategy that not only ruins the match for people when done excessively, but also demonstrates less killer will in the process?

    The answer here is that having one thing that is simple enough that a starter player will try that is also extremely effective is what people want. And, for a much smaller number, ruining the match for others is also a benefit.

    Let me break it down for you.

    The plural of anecdote is not data. That counts double for hypotheticals.

    Nearly all of those interactions and "issues" that you present here have a component of player skill, or game knowledge, or game sense.

    So, for many players, taking too long to find survivors, kicking gens at 5 percent, wandering the map blindly, and then chasing inefficiently with taking loops too wide, zoning and looping incorrectly, not knowing which pallets are playable or not, and on which killers are fundamentals that these players lack.

    And those all cost time. Usually, that's going to be right at the start of the game. So once someone fulbles through all of these and gets a hook, they also tend to find that 3-4 minutes have passed, and with 3 survivors free to do gens, they also seem surprised that 3 gens are done. But this is all the that can be trimmed, if people actually analyzed their own gameplay and didn't just automatically blame the game.

    Here's the real problem: tunneling is so overly effective that players can easily stomp survivors of their own skill level. Doing this boosts their MMR to a point where they are going against survivors who are at a higher skill level than they are, and these inefficiencies add up. This is largely where "feeling forced to tunnel" and "have no choice" arguments come into play.

    Forcing players to engage in different strategies, improving their gameplay, going against appropriate MMR opponents are all good things. Even if change requires an MMR reset as well. Unfortunately, the devs are demonstrably incapable of making changes that will make any of that happen.

  • Leon_van_Straken
    Leon_van_Straken Member Posts: 359

    Even if a match takes 10 minutes there is barely time.

    Remember I wrote a bad chase by the survivor no pallets dropped no windows used no saving attempts.

    And the Time from finding them till hooking them is 40-50 seconds. Finding, hitting 2 times, picking up, hooking.

    In 10 Minutes which is a long game for dbd standards there is no time to go for a 12 hook only when survivors are ignoring their objective.

    Now imagine you have someone decent in chase or even worse someone in chase who has WoO and pre drops every single pallet. The time extends against you. Ofcourse you can say "drop chase then" but you won´t get the time back and you don´t know if the next survivor does exactly the same.

    If Survivors have a little game sense they will let the mate which gets tunneld on the hook as long as possible. which buys them 50-60 seconds gen time for each hook state. Which are more than 3 gens of time if each survivor repairs a gen on his own.

    I say it again I am not saying Tunneling is the must do for Killers. I just say that I understand that Killers do it because you can´t say if the enemy team is cranking out the Gens or is searching for boon totems.

  • THE_Crazy_Hyena
    THE_Crazy_Hyena Member Posts: 1,270

    I think this current era of "go next" might stem from the abundance of tunneling as well.
    Think about this: You are playing a survivor game with some friends, and you have already faced a lot of tunneling killers who have always hard-tunneled the first one found, every single match. Now, you would assume that this will happen again in your current match. So instead of having to force yourself through another round of "pain", you instead choose the easy way out.

    The solution: There are no direct solutions to this issue, and it will instead have to gradually become better once tunneling and other easy strategies mellows out. So instead of seeing a hard-tunnel 75% of the time at least, once that comes down to like 1/5 or 1/10 games, you would probably stop seeing survivors "going next" all the time.

    I felt this way during the release week of Krasue, becuse of how easy hard-tunneling was back then. It came to the point when I saw a Krasue running Dissolution and Bamboozle (to remove the little counterplay she had), I would outright DC, because I knew which way this was going, thanks to being a victim to several hard-tunneling Krasues.

    I have not DC'd once since the Krasue nerfs though, and I probably won't do it again, unless I somehow get stuck in a match with a cheater or something.

  • tes
    tes Member Posts: 1,143
    edited November 20

    Can’t be true because even according screwed data from BHVR that consider ping pong between two survs or other ways as tunneling it’s still less than half (40%) and even was dropped on few percents compared to last years.

    It’s a lie basically claiming people DC because of tunneling and justifying people’s ragequit. And some people really want to find an excuse of their rage and cry behaviour that spoiling teammates experience first of all.

    Stop playing along with their cries. BHVR never provided worthy punishment and thats the only reason. Such people should uninstall if they unsatisfied THAT much, instead of messing with MMR and spoiling game for others. This is griefing people shouldn’t find excuse or explanations for.

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 10,334

    Let me put this a different way: gen rushing, as in, actual full blown "4 man showing up to speed run the match", is far, far less common than tunneling. Would you tell killers that they should "wait until they're sure that's what's happening"?

    I wouldn't say that, true. What would say, DCing because you just had your ass handed to you doesn't mean you get to do the unsportsman like action of DCing like a little b.

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 10,334

    Also, no. I don't tell killers to tunnel. I also don't tell them not to tunnel. Because how someone plays is not my decision to make.

    Do I tunnel? Not by default. Many of my matches I will outright ignore the unhooked survivor in favor of the healthy survivor. Only when the survivor side is playing like this is for money do I play less forgiving to mistakes and bad plays.

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 2,958
    edited November 20

    how someone plays is not my decision to make.

    True. Which is why I word things to be directed largely at the devs.

    It's their fault that the most effective way to play the game is unengaging for all 5 players and unfun for everyone.

    It's up to them to change that (being that the efficient method to play is more engaging). That could be making tunneling someone out more interesting for everyone, but I doubt it.

    The alternative means making tunneling less effective so we can also address things like gen speed, assuming the tunneling issue doesn't already solve that as well. (Since engaging more survivors automatically means less time on gens also).

    Ideally, whatever solution it is ends in all 5 players have a more fun experience overall.

    Unfortunately, there are some extremely loud voices that don't want anything to change at all, and that is impeding progress for everyone else.

  • runningguy
    runningguy Member Posts: 753

    firstly, you making the same assumptions regarding people DCing due to tunneling i mean how can you say generally people DC with tunneling being the reason? are you psychic? although im confident i know the reasons because people actually say them in the post lobby or in stream like ttv players. i rarely see anyone say the reason for the DC was due to being tunneled.

    tunneling has existed from day 1 of the game, it isnt a new thing that recently popped up causing a sudden DC epidemic. what is new is the abandon system and the new DC penalty system making it easier for people to DC, abandon and go next more often than they have ever been able to do before. This fits exactly what i have been saying, allow people to DC and they will. stopping tunneling wont stop people DCing over something else.

    like you said people go into a match knowing they will lose at some point and they accept that when they start the match. people know they will probably get tunneled, they accept that when they start the match. they expect it, they know its highly likely to happen. dont like it? dont accept and play the match. you cant say "i know what will happen, i will play anyway and when it does happen just DC.

    The reason tunneling still continues is simply because survivors refuse to accept that matches are too fast and will not have gen speeds nerfed. cant have it both ways….you want fast matches where gens can be done in 5min, sure, killers are going to kill fast to keep up, hence the tunneling. many killers have said they are fine with tunneling being nerfed if they have more time to spread hooks. i have said myself, im good with tunneling being flat out removed as an option as long gen speeds get slowed down so i have time to spread hooks, there is a solution but its survivors that wont accept they need to play ball.

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 10,334

    Regardless if tunneling is a problem or not, it does not excuse a survivor DCing simply because they were the first found.

    It also does not excuse the practice of not moving away from the hook if the killer does happen to return. Not all killers are going to go after the unhooked. But if you hand it to them on a silver platter then you lose all rights to complain.

  • tes
    tes Member Posts: 1,143
    edited November 20

    They gonna claim sky looking purple until everyone would actually believe them.

    The problem people who play both roles and don’t share their sentiment would never.

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 2,958

    it isnt a new thing that recently popped up causing a sudden DC epidemic

    Never said tunneling was new. What happened a year ago was that the devs had actively changed the game balance in favor of the killer and announced around that time that they had hit their goal of 60% kill rates.

    As a result, and by-product, of those buffs and changes, tunneling had also been directly and indirectly buffed as well. Especially since there's been no limit to it.

    And about a year ago. Was when we first had the "go next epidemic" pop up

    Now, it's happening again, apparently, just as the devs announce and start testing anti tunneling changes, then immediately back down and broadcast to everyone that they can't or won't be making meaningful changes to tunneling.

    So, while people shouldn't dc, for people burned out by tunneling, they have been sent a pretty clear message that the devs have no interest in fixing the problem, and it's going make people more frustrated and feel more burned out.

    Which is what I've been saying.

    The reason tunneling still continues is simply because survivors refuse to accept that matches are too fast and will not have gen speeds nerfed

    This is entirely wrong, and a completely false narrative.

    We had an entire year, in the live game, where gens took as long as the killer chose. Those metas even had names:

    Cobruption, gen kick, Overbrine, and 3 gen.

    In some of those cases, gens took the full hour to complete and were still not done.

    And tunneling only increased. But, to hear you attempt to paint it the way you want, you'd think that tunneling was eradicated for that year.

    It absolutely wasn't. And we can take from that that tunneling had nothing to do with gen speeds, and isn't in any way "a response", nor would "tunneling get better if gens were slower".

    That's not a hypothetical, or my opinion. That's data and facts from having that exact scenario for a full year of live gameplay.

    Slowing down gens is demonstrably not going to reduce tunneling. If anything, we know the opposite is true, and tunneling gets worse when killers have more time to tunnel someone out.

  • CorvidXCVIII
    CorvidXCVIII Member Posts: 81

    We could streamline the game down a bunch.

    -Remove gens entirely, the gates start powered. Genrush solved.

    -Survivors only get one hook state. Tunneling solved.