Don't do that, it's not fun for the other side!
So what the title says. Tunneling is bad. It's not fun for survivors. We all know this.
Thing is, you know what's not fun for killers? Being stunned and chain blinded with extended duration blindness at every pallet. Yet, seems that when a killer main says that is unfun, survivors either don't care, or mock them.
It's not up to me to make sure the game fun for you, just as it is not up to you to make sure then game is fun for me.
In the end, IMO we all should follow The Golden Rule… Do unto others as you would have done unto you.
If as a killer you are so gung ho that you would never be a 'bully" to killer, then play survivor. Don't be the bully.
If as a survivor you are so gung ho that you would never tunnel, then play killer. Don't tunnel.
See things from the other side for awhile.
Comments
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Wanting a game where your opponent puts respect for their opponent is idealism. Preparing yourself for it when it doesn't happen is realism. They're not necessarily mutually exclusive, and honestly we all need more of both.
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Oh, I agree completely and that's how I play myself. I rarely tunnel or slug unless the survivors are just being dumb (like if you are going out of your way to bodyblock me even when I am going after another survivor, get your Decisive Strike value, then yeah I will immidiately down and hook you again when I recover from the stun. Also Boil Over. I have PTSD from the RPD library and will unapologetically tunnel anyone running Boil Over.) But I don't expect every killer to play by my rules when I am on survivor. Same with survivor, I don't do the flashlight blind at every pallet thing myself, but I don't get angry at survivors who do. (On the other hand, survivor side I am a Claire Redfield main and run Blast Mine with Residual Manifest, I find it hilarious and when I get hit by a Blast Mine as killer, my thought is "Respect." )
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Yet, seems that when a killer main says that is unfun, survivors either don't care, or mock them.
Source?
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that's why the pallets was shrunk to let the killer wipe out every survivor.😅
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I love and agree with this post. I wish players would just stop fighting and just respect eachother
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I made a suggestion before about how chain blinding shouldn't be a thing - after a successful blind killers, by default, should get a mini Lightborn effect that lasts a number of seconds to prevent this kind of thing.
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I completely agree with you about basic respect and the golden rule. The game and honestly the world as a whole would function much better if people lived by that thinking.
But I don’t think tunneling is comparable to being stunned or chain-blinded. If anything, the game would be healthier if tunneling worked more like those mechanics. Stuns and blinds are limited resources. pallets disappear once they’re used, flashlights burn through charges, etc.
Not enjoying getting stunned or blinded is totally understandable , and people mocking that isn’t fair. The annoyance between stuns and tunneling might be similar but they’re definitely different kinds of annoyances.
If tunneling was balanced the way stuns and blinds were, DBD would probably be in a far better place. Especially if anti-tunnel tools worked like Lightborn does for blinds.It would be no paywall, no activation conditions, no cooldown, no limited charges. Just consistent protection.
But yeah, everyone should always keep in mind that they’re playing with other people, and that should mean something. Nobody should ever mock anyone else.
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See things from the other side for awhile.
Not sure why this keeps getting thrown around. People play both sides. People agree things aren't fun in a video game.
But I'll even let that go and say even if the players all agreed or didn't, it wouldn't matter. BHVR is all that matters. BHVR thinks its a problem.
So its a problem.
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I don't tunnel as killer or use flashlights as survivor. It has yet to make people treat me any better.
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This.
Also, I'm not here to tell anyone how to play.
I'm here to tell the devs: "hey, the 'optimal way' to play your game kinda sucks when taken to extremes, maybe you should put some limits on that".
But nuance is completely lost on a lot of people, some people hate any change, and a small number of people really, really love doing it because it sucks.
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This thing about these statements are true but ive seen in this game that it truly doesn't matter how you play.
If you play fair and Lose: GGEZ Noob
If You Win fair: ur So Bad
If you Lose Sweaty: uninstall and End Urself
If you Win Sweaty: Try Hard Scumbag
This goes from both sides of the game. So i say play how you want because it just doesn't matter
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Some people will always be mad. Want an example?
Yesterday I play my Chucky and I went for the 8 hook before Killing style.
So i had 6 hooks without tunneling but I never found the Claudette. So I searched her, found her and hooked her. Left the hook going to pop a gen. Claudette gets unhookd, healed hides again. I come back because I need her for 8 hooks. Get her again.
Claudette died to the 11th hook in this game.
Endgame chat:
Claudette: Noob Killer can´t win without hardcore tunneling.
Me: Excuse me… you had 2 gens left when you all died.
Claudette: Yeah because its impossible to win a 3v1 if you tunnel at 5 gens.
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I have just one rule as killer. Flashlights are fair play, but if you run Head-On, don't be sad or mad if I mori you. That perk is not fun to go against.
Also, you won't see me run a flashlight on survivor, unless I am there to meme with a silly build to boot.
Heck, I don't even run Exhaustion/Finesse and those kinds of perks, because I know how annoying it is to face.
The only perk I run to slow the killer down is Blast Mine, but that is a rather harmless perk in the grand scheme of things. I just laugh it off if I get hit by one when playing killer.
Though I have seen people tilt off the face of the planet from getting hit by a single blast mine.3 -
Blast mine is my eye rolling perk as Killer. XD
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Play nice and get teabagged, no thanks. Dead Survivors can't teabag.
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We already have it in game - it's called mouse movemnt, you either look up or down.
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I thought about that too but in the scenario of 'bully squads' with multiple flashlights, looking up or down will only get you so far before being blinded again in quick succession.
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A) If I’m gonna be “kind” to other player, they are no guarantee this “kind” attitude will be returned from other player
B) This is a damn game and you yourself responsible for bringing fun solely for yourself after all
C) Are we following moral codex in game about killers and survivors?
I keep it simple - everything that happened in match shouldn’t go beyond gameplay. So no agressive BM, hostaging, sandbags, threats, offences. If game meant to stun and blind, I’ll do this as survivor. If game meant to kill, I will kill no matter how unfun and fast it would be seemed. It’s a game. Let people choose how to play and that’s all. There are too much noise about how unfun specific stuff is, and it always a perspective of person from other side who didn’t meant to enjoy this from the start. It’s PvP after all.Handicapping by “you should play nice first of all” gonna bring opposite reaction from the person you telling to do so
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It's enough to be on this forum for long enough…
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While I do understand the point and think it's broadly good to consider both sides, and even think there's some conversations to be had about chain blinding and if it could potentially be adjusted, it's a mistake to only focus on tunnelling being unfun.
It's true that tunnelling is often unfun the same way chain blinding is often unfun, but there's another element to consider- tunnelling is also unbalanced, and chain blinding isn't.
That is the more important element of tunnelling and should always get first billing in discussions about it, often even the only thing that should be discussed. Fun is subjective and therefore difficult to engineer, but balance has firmer footing to discuss and tunnelling clearly trips that wire, so to speak.
To tie it into your larger point, true, neither side has the responsibility for the other side's fun… but the developers do, and they also have a responsibility to ensure matches are generally as fair as possible.
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They see it as a problem because they think that is why most players are quitting according to their completely survivor sided exit survey. if they lose 100 survivor players and 1000 killer players, but they only ask questions about why the survivors are quitting… they just have 1100 players quitting for survivor reasons, even though many of them are not quitting for those reasons. Change the numbers however you want, the data is still wrong.
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Frankly I just try to play efficiently and win, since I get yelled at periodically no matter what I do or how I play anyways.
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If survivor blinds you and killer comes from breaking animation looking down takes some time and smart survivor will still crouch and blind you because for chain blind the time it takes to apply that blind is like second maybe even less so you cant kinda doge first chain blind mostly but third one and others you can.
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I've been on these forums for ages, and I don't see people respond to chain hook denial complaints like that.
Mostly because I don't see people complain about chain hook denial in the first place, except 6 pages deep in a forum trench war about anti-tunnel.
And it's really frustrating, because I think it's a valid complaint, it's awful for gameplay in much the same way tunnelling is, and I think this is one particular thing that could be addressed that would hit the seal-team-6 swiffers harder than solo-queue. But the only time it's ever brought up, it's not because people want it fixed, but it's always to complain about survivors getting something fixed on their end.
Even this post, if you ignore the 'as the title says', the very first sentence just leans into the discussions around tunnelling.
It's never an argument of 'Fix this issue', it's always more in the direction of 'Don't fix survivor issues, because this killer issue exists'.
And that's what gets the animosity.
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No, the point is any "fix" is going to not be liked by the other side because most players that speak up are not thinking of the other side's fun, only their own. A great example is awhile ago they made it harder to get saves out of a locker with a flashbang grenade. It can still be done but its a lot harder. When it was changed, there were tons of survivors here on the forums complaining that BHVR had ruined their fun.
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As someone who has also been here for a long time, I have also never seen the outcry of people defending something like hook denial.
I've never seen anyone saying you can't take hook denial away because "it's the only way to win", or "don't punish me for using the optimal strategy", or even "it's a game mechanic, so clearly it's fair game and completely intended as the only strategy I need".
(And, since nuance is completely lost on some people, if there is someone who has posted something like this, it's a single individual that quickly fades into the background. There isn't a huge traction or even a loud, but small, group that feels this way. Most posts about any "objective denial" are in agreement that it sucks for everyone.)
And as much as I don't particularly care for "abandon" as a good solution, this is one of the few cases where it was implemented that isn't controversial. Since "not completing a gen in 10 minutes" is pretty much limited to bully squads.
In fact, the only complaints I've ever seen about the abandon option were right as it launched, when the system incorrectly showed a 4k on the end game screen when this was triggered, where killers would use even the limited 8 kicks to hold the game hostage for 10 minutes and "win by abandon". Which, thankfully, seems to have disappeared once they fixed the end game screen for that situation.
But none of that applies to tunneling. Some people are tunneling apologists, and others seem to believe tunneling is some kind of lifestyle, and defend it using any and every kind of manipulation tactic possible, from gaslighting, whataboutism, and even "nice game you've got here, be a shame if anything happened to it".
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If you don't like tunneling, you shouldn't complain! You should just play something else!
Oh, wait, that's what all the casual survivors DID, which is why you get bully squads (and long wait times).
But, maybe they'll come back if you explain how their fun isn't your responsibility. That sounds like an enticing offer.
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im with ya there. Play the way you want and respect your opponent to play how they want
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We can not compare tunneling to stunning the killer. Blinding at a pallet doesn't even create distance unless you're using a specific flashlight addon. And even then it's not much. Meanwhile tunneling out one player is not only unfun for the person being tunneled, it effectively guarantees the killer a win. I mean, we all know tunneling out one survivor early is the easiest way to win as killer in DBD.
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