NOED is really bad game design
Comments
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We were solo, on red forest. Its a huge map for each survivor to be running around all trying to count 5 totems. Of course killers like this though because then they get the ez wins and can continue to lobby dodge swf who may provide a challenge.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
If survivors played a Spirit that was so bad she only got two hits the entire match, then those survivors had ample opportunity to cleanse five totems. If they didn’t cleanse them, then that’s on the survivors, not the killer or the game.The_Crusader said:
"A great end game perk that can turn the tide of the match entirely"Well_Placed_HexTotem said:@Nickenzie said:
This rework would solve everything about NOED, it will make perk viable for both groups of survivors. No One Escapes Death:
Progress infuriates you beyond belief which causes you to release your true potential. Whenever a generator is completed, you'll receive a 5%/10%/15% haste effect and a 20% attack cool down decrease until you perform a successful offensive action. Haste effects and attack cool downs do not stack if multiple generators are completed.
So... instead of a great end game perk that can turn the tide of a match entirely, it's reworked into a poor man's STBFL.. where the killer gets a haste effect and an attack cool down decrease... until you hit someone?
Why would any killer run this? Personally I'd rather run Tinkerer and see when a gen is about to pop and get a silent terror radius. This rework is doodoo. When you said "viable for both groups" I think you forgot to add that it's viable for survivors because it would effectively remove NOED from the game.
Here, let me rework Decisive Strike:
Decisive Strike - You're ashamed that you got downed. When the killer picks you up, hit any button on the controller to immediately disconnect from the match. All normal disconnect penalties apply.
Yo breh that's totally viable for both groups.
Well that's kind of the entire complaint man. I had a Spirit the other day who didn't manage to put a single survivor into the dying state all game. I thinknthey injured 2 people and that was it. At the end of the game NOED kicks in and they must have had at least 5 hooks then and got a kill out of it.
What's the point? Why make the effort to win when you can just use perks to boost yourself anf get lucky?
It negates skill and it also boosts bad players up to a level where they can't compete. People would be better off getting better at the game to have more fun rather than having Noed do it for them.
Same applies to Decisive Strike.
i almost exclusively solo queue and I make sure to hit every totem I come across. The end result is I rarely get hit with NOED. And in the event that I see a couple straight NOEDs, I slap on Detectives Hunch. Now simply for completing an objective, I can see all the totems.
If I get taken down by NOED I am blaming myself and my teammates, not being negative about the skill of the killer or blaming the game itself. It’s such an easy perk to counter, crying about it seems silly to me.
I assume in your example earlier, you and your friends gen rushes that Spirit and didn’t focus on totems and paid the price. Adapt or get over it.
This is why solo players need notifications of dull totems cleansed. Especially when the majority of killers lobby dodge and bring noed.0 -
It’s not hard to cleanse totems on RF at all. There’s also Detectives Hunch, which literally highlights them for you.The_Crusader said:
We were solo, on red forest. Its a huge map for each survivor to be running around all trying to count 5 totems. Of course killers like this though because then they get the ez wins and can continue to lobby dodge swf who may provide a challenge.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
If survivors played a Spirit that was so bad she only got two hits the entire match, then those survivors had ample opportunity to cleanse five totems. If they didn’t cleanse them, then that’s on the survivors, not the killer or the game.The_Crusader said:
"A great end game perk that can turn the tide of the match entirely"Well_Placed_HexTotem said:@Nickenzie said:
This rework would solve everything about NOED, it will make perk viable for both groups of survivors. No One Escapes Death:
Progress infuriates you beyond belief which causes you to release your true potential. Whenever a generator is completed, you'll receive a 5%/10%/15% haste effect and a 20% attack cool down decrease until you perform a successful offensive action. Haste effects and attack cool downs do not stack if multiple generators are completed.
So... instead of a great end game perk that can turn the tide of a match entirely, it's reworked into a poor man's STBFL.. where the killer gets a haste effect and an attack cool down decrease... until you hit someone?
Why would any killer run this? Personally I'd rather run Tinkerer and see when a gen is about to pop and get a silent terror radius. This rework is doodoo. When you said "viable for both groups" I think you forgot to add that it's viable for survivors because it would effectively remove NOED from the game.
Here, let me rework Decisive Strike:
Decisive Strike - You're ashamed that you got downed. When the killer picks you up, hit any button on the controller to immediately disconnect from the match. All normal disconnect penalties apply.
Yo breh that's totally viable for both groups.
Well that's kind of the entire complaint man. I had a Spirit the other day who didn't manage to put a single survivor into the dying state all game. I thinknthey injured 2 people and that was it. At the end of the game NOED kicks in and they must have had at least 5 hooks then and got a kill out of it.
What's the point? Why make the effort to win when you can just use perks to boost yourself anf get lucky?
It negates skill and it also boosts bad players up to a level where they can't compete. People would be better off getting better at the game to have more fun rather than having Noed do it for them.
Same applies to Decisive Strike.
i almost exclusively solo queue and I make sure to hit every totem I come across. The end result is I rarely get hit with NOED. And in the event that I see a couple straight NOEDs, I slap on Detectives Hunch. Now simply for completing an objective, I can see all the totems.
If I get taken down by NOED I am blaming myself and my teammates, not being negative about the skill of the killer or blaming the game itself. It’s such an easy perk to counter, crying about it seems silly to me.
I assume in your example earlier, you and your friends gen rushes that Spirit and didn’t focus on totems and paid the price. Adapt or get over it.
This is why solo players need notifications of dull totems cleansed. Especially when the majority of killers lobby dodge and bring noed.
Basically this boils down to you want the game to be easier LOL0 -
@Slayer said:
@Orion said:
Punishing players for not using counters is not bad design. This is like saying that if a player refuses to use grabs/throws in a fighting game, then that makes blocking bad game design.Cleansing totems isnt really a counter. Killer just trades insta down to secondary objectives in that case.
Does it prevent the usage of the perk? Yes. Therefore, it's a counter.
Does it have an opportunity cost, like literally every action in the game? Also yes.0 -
5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.0 -
I’ve been playing two years. Rank one when you actually needed kills. No one knows more about this game than me.FireHazard said:@The_Crusader said:
michaelmyers87 said:@FireHazard said:
@michaelmyers87 said:
Only players who have ever been rank one are capable of giving valid opinions on this game
I hope that's satire.
nope. if you dont have what it takes to be a rank one killer, then you dont know much about this game
That's a rank 2 killer btw
He imply's that because you're a rank one means your opinions valid... Yet I and many others have been rank 1 pretty much every season we've played and it takes little to no skill to get there.
Is that all new killers think ranks are... a status symbol? I thought that was like a meme.
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It's an honour to meet you, your highness.michaelmyers87 said:
I’ve been playing two years. Rank one when you actually needed kills. No one knows more about this game than me.FireHazard said:@The_Crusader said:
michaelmyers87 said:@FireHazard said:
@michaelmyers87 said:
Only players who have ever been rank one are capable of giving valid opinions on this game
I hope that's satire.
nope. if you dont have what it takes to be a rank one killer, then you dont know much about this game
That's a rank 2 killer btw
He imply's that because you're a rank one means your opinions valid... Yet I and many others have been rank 1 pretty much every season we've played and it takes little to no skill to get there.
Is that all new killers think ranks are... a status symbol? I thought that was like a meme.
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lol it’s 70 seconds. Jeez.The_Crusader said:5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.0 -
@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
The_Crusader said:5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.
lol it’s 70 seconds. Jeez.
A gen is 80, and when you factor in time running between them, and any resets on the timer due to being interrupted it's easily an extra gen and then some.
If killers can't win against 6 gens I don't know what to say.
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@PiiFreePiiFree said:@Nickenzie said:
I'm starting to think NOED is fine, but I really don't like how the perk destroys solo survivors while SWF can take it down in a breeze. This needs to be changed, make NOED equally as strong for both groups of survivors.How does this perk destroy solo Survivors? I don't get this conclusion. Are you talking about 4 solos in the same trial and no one but you bothers cleansing the dull totems?
How is that screwing over the solos? 3 are doing gens while you are doing totems. That's the best thing that can happen, as you perfectly well know where you've already been and therefore won't waste time looking for the totem in places someone already had looked before.
If you end up with 3 solos that also cleanse dull totems, it will take a minute or two and ALL totems will be gone while they do gens simmultaneously.
If you end up with a SWF, they will break those totems down in a breeze.
So really, in the end the only thing that might screw you are the 4x solo teams. How often do you get matched with 3 other solo players? One year ago, 70% of the queues included SWFs. It's probably a lot more by now.
In the end it's all about the incompetence of the other Survivors. You HAVE a perfectly fine and simple solution to NOED; cleanse the dull totems. If you or your teammates fail to do this, you'll get punished. Simple. NOED is a punishment for the lazy or the unaware Survivors, that's all.
Good players will expect it and avoid getting hit after gates are powered or they take care of it before it pops. Doesn't matter if it's in a SWF or with Solos.
I'll just say that solo survivors don't have a lot of communication and it's going to be difficult to make a lot of progress on something that takes coordination. While au contraire, SWF has a lot of coordination to keep count of dull totems and to keep track of their positions. Therefore, NOED is weak against SWF and strong against solos because they don't have the same tools in a game to deal with the perk. Furthermore, the perk awards failure in terms of you couldn't prevent the survivors from completing their objective. I'm not going to defend DS either, it's the NOED equivalent because it also awards failure in terms of losing in stealth and in the chase.
Overall, perks should help you but shouldn't carry you. I would be fine with the perk reducing the punishment like Technician but not out right awarding the player for failing like DS. That's why I'll always stand by this rework here because you're failing to protect generators but the perk doesn't give you a pat on the back for losing.No One Escapes Death:
Progress infuriates you beyond belief which causes you to release your true potential. Whenever a generator is completed, you'll receive a 5%/10%/15% haste effect and a 20% attack cool down decrease until you perform a successful offensive action. Haste effects and attack cool downs do stack if multiple generators are completed.
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@The_Crusader said:
A gen is 80, and when you factor in time running between them, and any resets on the timer due to being interrupted it's easily an extra gen and then some.If killers can't win against 6 gens I don't know what to say.
I like running TotH sometimes for this reason.
Not only do you get even more time, you'll heavily encourage them to cleanse them, since they'll think you have some other Hex to protect, one important enough to waste another slot to TotH.1 -
And? A gen takes no time to complete. I assume you think you’re making some good point here about the time... it’s 70 seconds to completely eliminate NOED from popping.The_Crusader said:@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
The_Crusader said:5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.
lol it’s 70 seconds. Jeez.
A gen is 80, and when you factor in time running between them, and any resets on the timer due to being interrupted it's easily an extra gen and then some.
If killers can't win against 6 gens I don't know what to say.
If survivors cant cleanse five totems I don’t know what to say. Especially when they have two perks that literally point them out lol0 -
You sound like you're one of those players that gets gen rushed and relies on NOED to "balance the game".Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And? A gen takes no time to complete. I assume you think you’re making some good point here about the time... it’s 70 seconds to completely eliminate NOED from popping.The_Crusader said:@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
The_Crusader said:5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.
lol it’s 70 seconds. Jeez.
A gen is 80, and when you factor in time running between them, and any resets on the timer due to being interrupted it's easily an extra gen and then some.
If killers can't win against 6 gens I don't know what to say.
If survivors cant cleanse five totems I don’t know what to say. Especially when they have two perks that literally point them out lol0 -
And you seem like the type to ignore a totem and then when you get got, run to the DbD forums to make a thread whining about it.The_Crusader said:
You sound like you're one of those players that gets gen rushed and relies on NOED to "balance the game".Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And? A gen takes no time to complete. I assume you think you’re making some good point here about the time... it’s 70 seconds to completely eliminate NOED from popping.The_Crusader said:@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
The_Crusader said:5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.
lol it’s 70 seconds. Jeez.
A gen is 80, and when you factor in time running between them, and any resets on the timer due to being interrupted it's easily an extra gen and then some.
If killers can't win against 6 gens I don't know what to say.
If survivors cant cleanse five totems I don’t know what to say. Especially when they have two perks that literally point them out lol0 -
Why not just make totems an objective then and remove NOED?Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And you seem like the type to ignore a totem and then when you get got, run to the DbD forums to make a thread whining about it.The_Crusader said:
You sound like you're one of those players that gets gen rushed and relies on NOED to "balance the game".Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And? A gen takes no time to complete. I assume you think you’re making some good point here about the time... it’s 70 seconds to completely eliminate NOED from popping.The_Crusader said:@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
The_Crusader said:5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.
lol it’s 70 seconds. Jeez.
A gen is 80, and when you factor in time running between them, and any resets on the timer due to being interrupted it's easily an extra gen and then some.
If killers can't win against 6 gens I don't know what to say.
If survivors cant cleanse five totems I don’t know what to say. Especially when they have two perks that literally point them out lol0 -
And what awesome end game perk do killers get to make up for the removal of one of their best perks?The_Crusader said:
Why not just make totems an objective then and remove NOED?Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And you seem like the type to ignore a totem and then when you get got, run to the DbD forums to make a thread whining about it.The_Crusader said:
You sound like you're one of those players that gets gen rushed and relies on NOED to "balance the game".Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And? A gen takes no time to complete. I assume you think you’re making some good point here about the time... it’s 70 seconds to completely eliminate NOED from popping.The_Crusader said:@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
The_Crusader said:5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.
lol it’s 70 seconds. Jeez.
A gen is 80, and when you factor in time running between them, and any resets on the timer due to being interrupted it's easily an extra gen and then some.
If killers can't win against 6 gens I don't know what to say.
If survivors cant cleanse five totems I don’t know what to say. Especially when they have two perks that literally point them out lol0 -
If you need any extra help after making totems a mandatory objective to escape then its probably best that the player loses and stays in the rank they are in.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And what awesome end game perk do killers get to make up for the removal of one of their best perks?The_Crusader said:
Why not just make totems an objective then and remove NOED?Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And you seem like the type to ignore a totem and then when you get got, run to the DbD forums to make a thread whining about it.The_Crusader said:
You sound like you're one of those players that gets gen rushed and relies on NOED to "balance the game".Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And? A gen takes no time to complete. I assume you think you’re making some good point here about the time... it’s 70 seconds to completely eliminate NOED from popping.The_Crusader said:@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
The_Crusader said:5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.
lol it’s 70 seconds. Jeez.
A gen is 80, and when you factor in time running between them, and any resets on the timer due to being interrupted it's easily an extra gen and then some.
If killers can't win against 6 gens I don't know what to say.
If survivors cant cleanse five totems I don’t know what to say. Especially when they have two perks that literally point them out lol
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You’re not doing your argument any favors by calling for totems to be mandatory. InsteadThe_Crusader said:
If you need any extra help after making totems a mandatory objective to escape then its probably best that the player loses and stays in the rank they are in.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And what awesome end game perk do killers get to make up for the removal of one of their best perks?The_Crusader said:
Why not just make totems an objective then and remove NOED?Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And you seem like the type to ignore a totem and then when you get got, run to the DbD forums to make a thread whining about it.The_Crusader said:
You sound like you're one of those players that gets gen rushed and relies on NOED to "balance the game".Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And? A gen takes no time to complete. I assume you think you’re making some good point here about the time... it’s 70 seconds to completely eliminate NOED from popping.The_Crusader said:@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
The_Crusader said:5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.
lol it’s 70 seconds. Jeez.
A gen is 80, and when you factor in time running between them, and any resets on the timer due to being interrupted it's easily an extra gen and then some.
If killers can't win against 6 gens I don't know what to say.
If survivors cant cleanse five totems I don’t know what to say. Especially when they have two perks that literally point them out lol
of making them mandatory... just like, do them?0 -
I do. Team struggles to make progress while I'm off doing totems. Not surprising, it's a player less.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
You’re not doing your argument any favors by calling for totems to be mandatory. InsteadThe_Crusader said:
If you need any extra help after making totems a mandatory objective to escape then its probably best that the player loses and stays in the rank they are in.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And what awesome end game perk do killers get to make up for the removal of one of their best perks?The_Crusader said:
Why not just make totems an objective then and remove NOED?Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And you seem like the type to ignore a totem and then when you get got, run to the DbD forums to make a thread whining about it.The_Crusader said:
You sound like you're one of those players that gets gen rushed and relies on NOED to "balance the game".Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And? A gen takes no time to complete. I assume you think you’re making some good point here about the time... it’s 70 seconds to completely eliminate NOED from popping.The_Crusader said:@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
The_Crusader said:5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.
lol it’s 70 seconds. Jeez.
A gen is 80, and when you factor in time running between them, and any resets on the timer due to being interrupted it's easily an extra gen and then some.
If killers can't win against 6 gens I don't know what to say.
If survivors cant cleanse five totems I don’t know what to say. Especially when they have two perks that literally point them out lol
of making them mandatory... just like, do them?
So having one run around doing the totems sometimes causes a team to lose.
All this for one perk btw
Also turns out that killers pressure totems more than gens. Every game a survivor brings them to the totem I'm on. Which drags out the time.
But hey, whatever helps killers win right? All about dat ez 4k0 -
This topic seems to be changing into an incoherent mess.
O_O
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@Well_Placed_HexTotem
Would it be fair if NOED increased the exit gate time while providing the killer with a 5% haste effect? Perks aren't suppose to award losing, they are supposed to alleviate the punishment.0 -
I always check for every totem, I always assume NOED and Nurses Calling.The_Crusader said:
Typical killer main reply.Sziosis said:All Hex perks can be destroyed. They all have great effects but the fact they can be destroyed gives the SURVIVORS the advantage against them. Noed can be taken out before it's even active if you put the time in, and if you are complaining that it takes too long to confirm there won't be a Noed, then it sounds like you just want a bigger advantage over a killers already destructable perk.
Re-read the thread. People are complaining that they take out 4 and it still pops. So what should they do? Run around checking every nook and cranny looking for it to make sure? Or assume one of the others must have done it if they cant find it?
What if multiple survivors run around looking for 5 totems? Then who is doing the generators?
All we want is an indication of how many have been cleansed, which is what swf have.
Seems to me killers want survivors doing anything but generators, we've all seen the 1000 threads begging for more objectives for survivors. They just want solo players to be as easy as possible, because most killers lobby dodge swf anyway.
I’m 99% solo player, and to be honest I’d rather be doing anything but gens at this point lol.
If they get a single kill from NOED my oppinion is it’s deserved, it’s very much an end game play style, it has a good risk reward balance.
I don’t mind this perk at all. Even when I’ve evaded all match done gens and just getting to the gate NOED bites me on the backside, I can live without that escape and those few BPs I’ll get from it.
We do have maps and perks to locate the totems, don’t see why a survivor should have a bonus perk of a counter that puts the killers “maybe” perk at a huge disadvantage, when the killer them selves don’t even have the ability to do this without a perk.
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Risk/reward? Lmao what?Paddy4583 said:
I always check for every totem, I always assume NOED and Nurses Calling.The_Crusader said:
Typical killer main reply.Sziosis said:All Hex perks can be destroyed. They all have great effects but the fact they can be destroyed gives the SURVIVORS the advantage against them. Noed can be taken out before it's even active if you put the time in, and if you are complaini weng that it takes too long to confirm there won't be a Noed, then it sounds like you just want a bigger advantage over a killers already destructable perk.
Re-read the thread. People are complaining that they take out 4 and it still pops. So what should they do? Run around checking every nook and cranny looking for it to make sure? Or assume one of the others must have done it if they cant find it?
What if multiple survivors run around looking for 5 totems? Then who is doing the generators?
All we want is an indication of how many have been cleansed, which is what swf have.
Seems to me killers want survivors doing anything but generators, we've all seen the 1000 threads begging for more objectives for survivors. They just want solo players to be as easy as possible, because most killers lobby dodge swf anyway.
I’m 99% solo player, and to be honest I’d rather be doing anything but gens at this point lol.
If they get a single kill from NOED my oppinion is it’s deserved, it’s very much an end game play style, it has a good risk reward balance.
I don’t mind this perk at all. Even when I’ve evaded all match done gens and just getting to the gate NOED bites me on the backside, I can live without that escape and those few BPs I’ll get from it.
We do have maps and perks to locate the totems, don’t see why a survivor should have a bonus perk of a counter that puts the killers “maybe” perk at a huge disadvantage, when the killer them selves don’t even have the ability to do this without a perk.
It's one perk slot. In return you get a speed boost an unlimited instadowns when survivors are at their weakest (most pallets destroyed, maybe a survivor or two dead).
The risk is very, very small. The reward is very, very big.0 -
Woah so you’re saying when you have to do other stuff besides gens, the game takes longer for survivors to win? Wow what a concept. Still waiting on you to provide any real logic as to why NOED needs to be removed other than “some Spirit who only got two hits all game rekt us with it!The_Crusader said:
I do. Team struggles to make progress while I'm off doing totems. Not surprising, it's a player less.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
You’re not doing your argument any favors by calling for totems to be mandatory. InsteadThe_Crusader said:
If you need any extra help after making totems a mandatory objective to escape then its probably best that the player loses and stays in the rank they are in.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And what awesome end game perk do killers get to make up for the removal of one of their best perks?The_Crusader said:
Why not just make totems an objective then and remove NOED?Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And you seem like the type to ignore a totem and then when you get got, run to the DbD forums to make a thread whining about it.The_Crusader said:
You sound like you're one of those players that gets gen rushed and relies on NOED to "balance the game".Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And? A gen takes no time to complete. I assume you think you’re making some good point here about the time... it’s 70 seconds to completely eliminate NOED from popping.The_Crusader said:@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
The_Crusader said:5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.
lol it’s 70 seconds. Jeez.
A gen is 80, and when you factor in time running between them, and any resets on the timer due to being interrupted it's easily an extra gen and then some.
If killers can't win against 6 gens I don't know what to say.
If survivors cant cleanse five totems I don’t know what to say. Especially when they have two perks that literally point them out lol
of making them mandatory... just like, do them?
So having one run around doing the totems sometimes causes a team to lose.
All this for one perk btw
Also turns out that killers pressure totems more than gens. Every game a survivor brings them to the totem I'm on. Which drags out the time.
But hey, whatever helps killers win right? All about dat ez 4kThe_Crusader said:
I do. Team struggles to make progress while I'm off doing totems. Not surprising, it's a player less.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
You’re not doing your argument any favors by calling for totems to be mandatory. InsteadThe_Crusader said:
If you need any extra help after making totems a mandatory objective to escape then its probably best that the player loses and stays in the rank they are in.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And what awesome end game perk do killers get to make up for the removal of one of their best perks?The_Crusader said:
Why not just make totems an objective then and remove NOED?Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And you seem like the type to ignore a totem and then when you get got, run to the DbD forums to make a thread whining about it.The_Crusader said:
You sound like you're one of those players that gets gen rushed and relies on NOED to "balance the game".Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And? A gen takes no time to complete. I assume you think you’re making some good point here about the time... it’s 70 seconds to completely eliminate NOED from popping.The_Crusader said:@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
The_Crusader said:5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.
lol it’s 70 seconds. Jeez.
A gen is 80, and when you factor in time running between them, and any resets on the timer due to being interrupted it's easily an extra gen and then some.
If killers can't win against 6 gens I don't know what to say.
If survivors cant cleanse five totems I don’t know what to say. Especially when they have two perks that literally point them out lol
of making them mandatory... just like, do them?
So having one run around doing the totems sometimes causes a team to lose.
All this for one perk btw
Also turns out that killers pressure totems more than gens. Every game a survivor brings them to the totem I'm on. Which drags out the time.
But hey, whatever helps killers win right? All about dat ez 4k0 -
Pretty much everyone who plays survivor says it's unfair and OP.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
Woah so you’re saying when you have to do other stuff besides gens, the game takes longer for survivors to win? Wow what a concept. Still waiting on you to provide any real logic as to why NOED needs to be removed other than “some Spirit who only got two hits all game rekt us with it!The_Crusader said:
I do. Team struggles to make progress while I'm off doing totems. Not surprising, it's a player less.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
You’re not doing your argument any favors by calling for totems to be mandatory. InsteadThe_Crusader said:
If you need any extra help after making totems a mandatory objective to escape then its probably best that the player loses and stays in the rank they are in.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And what awesome end game perk do killers get to make up for the removal of one of their best perks?The_Crusader said:
Why not just make totems an objective then and remove NOED?Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And you seem like the type to ignore a totem and then when you get got, run to the DbD forums to make a thread whining about it.The_Crusader said:
You sound like you're one of those players that gets gen rushed and relies on NOED to "balance the game".Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And? A gen takes no time to complete. I assume you think you’re making some good point here about the time... it’s 70 seconds to completely eliminate NOED from popping.The_Crusader said:@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
The_Crusader said:5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.
lol it’s 70 seconds. Jeez.
A gen is 80, and when you factor in time running between them, and any resets on the timer due to being interrupted it's easily an extra gen and then some.
If killers can't win against 6 gens I don't know what to say.
If survivors cant cleanse five totems I don’t know what to say. Especially when they have two perks that literally point them out lol
of making them mandatory... just like, do them?
So having one run around doing the totems sometimes causes a team to lose.
All this for one perk btw
Also turns out that killers pressure totems more than gens. Every game a survivor brings them to the totem I'm on. Which drags out the time.
But hey, whatever helps killers win right? All about dat ez 4kThe_Crusader said:
I do. Team struggles to make progress while I'm off doing totems. Not surprising, it's a player less.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
You’re not doing your argument any favors by calling for totems to be mandatory. InsteadThe_Crusader said:
If you need any extra help after making totems a mandatory objective to escape then its probably best that the player loses and stays in the rank they are in.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And what awesome end game perk do killers get to make up for the removal of one of their best perks?The_Crusader said:
Why not just make totems an objective then and remove NOED?Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And you seem like the type to ignore a totem and then when you get got, run to the DbD forums to make a thread whining about it.The_Crusader said:
You sound like you're one of those players that gets gen rushed and relies on NOED to "balance the game".Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And? A gen takes no time to complete. I assume you think you’re making some good point here about the time... it’s 70 seconds to completely eliminate NOED from popping.The_Crusader said:@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
The_Crusader said:5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.
lol it’s 70 seconds. Jeez.
A gen is 80, and when you factor in time running between them, and any resets on the timer due to being interrupted it's easily an extra gen and then some.
If killers can't win against 6 gens I don't know what to say.
If survivors cant cleanse five totems I don’t know what to say. Especially when they have two perks that literally point them out lol
of making them mandatory... just like, do them?
So having one run around doing the totems sometimes causes a team to lose.
All this for one perk btw
Also turns out that killers pressure totems more than gens. Every game a survivor brings them to the totem I'm on. Which drags out the time.
But hey, whatever helps killers win right? All about dat ez 4k
But you dont trust survivors ok.
There are streamers out there who refuse to use this perk because they feel it's overpowered, can allow any bad killer to receive a much better final result than they would otherwise be able to get, and it's just generally unsportsmanlike.
A huge chunk of the community consifer NOED along with DS as perks that reward bad play and suck the fun and skill out of the game.
But why am I even bothering? You've obviously made up your mind that you don't care about any of that, you just want the easy win, even if you can't play well enough to earn it without NOED.
Keep your precious crutch.0 -
Holy ######### lengthy quotes.
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I usually bring Small Game and I always miss a totem. I don’t complain about the perk, buuuut it’s the killers “hatch” let’s say. The easy kill.0
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I’ve already told you I play both and don’t mind NOED. It’s easy to get rid of by just playing the game.The_Crusader said:
Pretty much everyone who plays survivor says it's unfair and OP.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
Woah so you’re saying when you have to do other stuff besides gens, the game takes longer for survivors to win? Wow what a concept. Still waiting on you to provide any real logic as to why NOED needs to be removed other than “some Spirit who only got two hits all game rekt us with it!The_Crusader said:
I do. Team struggles to make progress while I'm off doing totems. Not surprising, it's a player less.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
You’re not doing your argument any favors by calling for totems to be mandatory. InsteadThe_Crusader said:
If you need any extra help after making totems a mandatory objective to escape then its probably best that the player loses and stays in the rank they are in.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And what awesome end game perk do killers get to make up for the removal of one of their best perks?The_Crusader said:
Why not just make totems an objective then and remove NOED?Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And you seem like the type to ignore a totem and then when you get got, run to the DbD forums to make a thread whining about it.The_Crusader said:
You sound like you're one of those players that gets gen rushed and relies on NOED to "balance the game".Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And? A gen takes no time to complete. I assume you think you’re making some good point here about the time... it’s 70 seconds to completely eliminate NOED from popping.The_Crusader said:@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
The_Crusader said:5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.
lol it’s 70 seconds. Jeez.
A gen is 80, and when you factor in time running between them, and any resets on the timer due to being interrupted it's easily an extra gen and then some.
If killers can't win against 6 gens I don't know what to say.
If survivors cant cleanse five totems I don’t know what to say. Especially when they have two perks that literally point them out lol
of making them mandatory... just like, do them?
So having one run around doing the totems sometimes causes a team to lose.
All this for one perk btw
Also turns out that killers pressure totems more than gens. Every game a survivor brings them to the totem I'm on. Which drags out the time.
But hey, whatever helps killers win right? All about dat ez 4kThe_Crusader said:
I do. Team struggles to make progress while I'm off doing totems. Not surprising, it's a player less.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
You’re not doing your argument any favors by calling for totems to be mandatory. InsteadThe_Crusader said:
If you need any extra help after making totems a mandatory objective to escape then its probably best that the player loses and stays in the rank they are in.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And what awesome end game perk do killers get to make up for the removal of one of their best perks?The_Crusader said:
Why not just make totems an objective then and remove NOED?Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And you seem like the type to ignore a totem and then when you get got, run to the DbD forums to make a thread whining about it.The_Crusader said:
You sound like you're one of those players that gets gen rushed and relies on NOED to "balance the game".Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
And? A gen takes no time to complete. I assume you think you’re making some good point here about the time... it’s 70 seconds to completely eliminate NOED from popping.The_Crusader said:@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
The_Crusader said:5 totems, an extra gens worth of time for 1 perk.
Not OP at all guyz
Also when the killer camps, have 3 survivors rush 5 gens and 5 totems.
lol it’s 70 seconds. Jeez.
A gen is 80, and when you factor in time running between them, and any resets on the timer due to being interrupted it's easily an extra gen and then some.
If killers can't win against 6 gens I don't know what to say.
If survivors cant cleanse five totems I don’t know what to say. Especially when they have two perks that literally point them out lol
of making them mandatory... just like, do them?
So having one run around doing the totems sometimes causes a team to lose.
All this for one perk btw
Also turns out that killers pressure totems more than gens. Every game a survivor brings them to the totem I'm on. Which drags out the time.
But hey, whatever helps killers win right? All about dat ez 4k
But you dont trust survivors ok.
There are streamers out there who refuse to use this perk because they feel it's overpowered, can allow any bad killer to receive a much better final result than they would otherwise be able to get, and it's just generally unsportsmanlike.
A huge chunk of the community consifer NOED along with DS as perks that reward bad play and suck the fun and skill out of the game.
But why am I even bothering? You've obviously made up your mind that you don't care about any of that, you just want the easy win, even if you can't play well enough to earn it without NOED.
Keep your precious crutch.
But keep asking for a crutch.1 -
@Orion said:
@Slayer said:
@Orion said:
Punishing players for not using counters is not bad design. This is like saying that if a player refuses to use grabs/throws in a fighting game, then that makes blocking bad game design.Cleansing totems isnt really a counter. Killer just trades insta down to secondary objectives in that case.
Does it prevent the usage of the perk? Yes. Therefore, it's a counter.
Does it have an opportunity cost, like literally every action in the game? Also yes.I think if killer plays defensive at the end of a game when only one gen left to fix and all three gens are close to each other then Noed was a waste cause good survivors will cleanse all of them while killer basically lets them to do it but if killer plays like a rocket missile thanks to bbq then Noed wasnt a waste even if it totems got cleansed.
With your logic ds has a counter too then just dont pick up survivor and you will prevent the perk usage1 -
Lol survivors still have the advantage and still complain. Honestly amazing0
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NOED just needs a small nerf, not a gut the perk type of nerf if you get where I'm coming from.1
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Like it can only be used when exit gates are powered and not before, or what about a nerf that lets it be removed from play like maybe making it a totem perk. I likeNickenzie said:NOED just needs a small nerf, not a gut the perk type of nerf if you get where I'm coming from.
these ideas
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@Nickenzie said:
@PiiFreeTherefore, NOED is weak against SWF and strong against solos because they don't have the same tools in a game to deal with the perk. Furthermore, the perk awards failure in terms of you couldn't prevent the survivors from completing their objective. I'm not going to defend DS either, it's the NOED equivalent because it also awards failure in terms of losing in stealth and in the chase.
I have to disagree.
SWF makes things a lot easier compared to solos, that's obvious but your statement: Solos don't have the same tools in the game to deal with the perk -> Yes they do. They have EXACTLY the same tools. Voice communication is NOT part of the game. Do you realize that you just used SWF and Voice Communication as a benchmark for balance and use the lack of communication of solos as a reason as to why NOED is OP? How ridiculous is that? Is that were we are now, SWF as a measurement for balance?Wow.
NOED doesn't reward failure. Assuming that the balance of the game is aimed around 2kills 2 death this means it's completly natural and expected that 5 gens get repaired. Considering that, it's not at all a loss to reach that state. It's not the Killer failing to do their objective to defend gens, it's the Survivors doing their objective. I'd compare NOED to Adrenaline, but DS is a whole new level. On top of that, Survivors have the complete control over NOED (and Adrenaline). They decide when and if it activates the moment they pop the last gen. On top of that, NOED still requires you to find & down a Survivor before they can escape the gates / break the totem. It's punishing Survivors for failure.
DS, on the other hand, punishes Killers for doing well. That's why DS is incredibly poorly designed and NOED, while it certainly can be powerful, is just that: A situational, powerful perk (against unaware Survivors).
There's a reason why mostly Wraith, Trapper and Freddy use NOED. They lack the pressure to keep Survivors from doing gens, so they focus on the endgame. If Survivors mindlessly rush gens, they'll get punished for it because they didn't consider the obvious: NOED. Remove NOED and you gotta be really lucky to ever see one of those Killers again.
And as a sidenote, I'm sure most Killers would gladly trade NOED for Adrenaline and DS.
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Ima stop you right there. 2k average does NOT mean 2 kills per game, that's a 2k median and is something different. 2k average means 50% winrates over all games. Which actually means an overwhelming majority of 0k's and 4k'sPiiFree said:@Nickenzie said:
@PiiFreeTherefore, NOED is weak against SWF and strong against solos because they don't have the same tools in a game to deal with the perk. Furthermore, the perk awards failure in terms of you couldn't prevent the survivors from completing their objective. I'm not going to defend DS either, it's the NOED equivalent because it also awards failure in terms of losing in stealth and in the chase.
I have to disagree.
SWF makes things a lot easier compared to solos, that's obvious but your statement: Solos don't have the same tools in the game to deal with the perk -> Yes they do. They have EXACTLY the same tools. Voice communication is NOT part of the game. Do you realize that you just used SWF and Voice Communication as a benchmark for balance and use the lack of communication of solos as a reason as to why NOED is OP? How ridiculous is that? Is that were we are now, SWF as a measurement for balance?Wow.
NOED doesn't reward failure. Assuming that the balance of the game is aimed around 2kills 2 death this means it's completly natural and expected that 5 gens get repaired. Considering that, it's not at all a loss to reach that state. It's not the Killer failing to do their objective to defend gens, it's the Survivors doing their objective. I'd compare NOED to Adrenaline, but DS is a whole new level. On top of that, Survivors have the complete control over NOED (and Adrenaline). They decide when and if it activates the moment they pop the last gen. On top of that, NOED still requires you to find & down a Survivor before they can escape the gates / break the totem. It's punishing Survivors for failure.
DS, on the other hand, punishes Killers for doing well. That's why DS is incredibly poorly designed and NOED, while it certainly can be powerful, is just that: A situational, powerful perk (against unaware Survivors).
There's a reason why mostly Wraith, Trapper and Freddy use NOED. They lack the pressure to keep Survivors from doing gens, so they focus on the endgame. If Survivors mindlessly rush gens, they'll get punished for it because they didn't consider the obvious: NOED. Remove NOED and you gotta be really lucky to ever see one of those Killers again.
And as a sidenote, I'm sure most Killers would gladly trade NOED for Adrenaline and DS.
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