Why so many killers slug for 4k?
Comments
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Lol what?Blueberry said:@Aven_Fallen said:
@Blueberry said:
Even if slugging is an issue to any survivor there are multiple anti slugging perks available, they just simply refuse to use them.What are those Perks?
Unbreakable for sure, but please dont tell me you mean No Mither with this "Please pick me up, I will recover from dying state"-Sign.Unbreakable, Tenacity and to an extent Adrenaline. This is on top of the fact that slugging was nerfed recently to where you can recover to only needing a second tap from another survivor to get you up or that with the recently added ranking system killers are punished for slugging as it doesn't get you any emblem points.
If there are 2 survivors left and 1 is slugged I can guarentee you Adrenaline isn't going to activate anytime soon.
Tenacity can't get you off the ground. You could crawl to the other person but chances are the killer will be keeping a watchful eye over you anyway so you'd just get the other person killed.
That leaves Unbreakable, a perk that will see use in 1 in every 500 games. Killers don't take Hangmans trick, mad grit, or iron maiden for the same reason.2 -
@The_Crusader said:
Blueberry said:@Aven_Fallen said:
@Blueberry said:
Even if slugging is an issue to any survivor there are multiple anti slugging perks available, they just simply refuse to use them.
What are those Perks?
Unbreakable for sure, but please dont tell me you mean No Mither with this "Please pick me up, I will recover from dying state"-Sign.
Unbreakable, Tenacity and to an extent Adrenaline. This is on top of the fact that slugging was nerfed recently to where you can recover to only needing a second tap from another survivor to get you up or that with the recently added ranking system killers are punished for slugging as it doesn't get you any emblem points.
Lol what?
If there are 2 survivors left and 1 is slugged I can guarentee you Adrenaline isn't going to activate anytime soon.
Tenacity can't get you off the ground. You could crawl to the other person but chances are the killer will be keeping a watchful eye over you anyway so you'd just get the other person killed.
That leaves Unbreakable, a perk that will see use in 1 in every 500 games. Killers don't take Hangmans trick, mad grit, or iron maiden for the same reason.
" If there are 2 survivors left and 1 is slugged I can guarentee you Adrenaline isn't going to activate anytime soon."
This is entirely subjective. Many times you only need 1 or 2 gens and if the killer is really watching that closely over them then that shouldn't be a problem. If they aren't then that's an easy save. If you really do need 3+ gens then the slugging isn't really the issue as this means the entire team is just playing very badly and that's simply a skill issue.
"Tenacity can't get you off the ground. You could crawl to the other person but chances are the killer will be keeping a watchful eye over you anyway so you'd just get the other person killed."
The whole point is not that it gets you off the ground, it's that you are able to lose the killer and get off the ground quicker from a save. If he''s watching you so closely that he still doesn't lose you then that other survivor is getting to work on gens for free now isn't he. Also, only a stupid survivor is gonna be just crawling directly in the direction of the other survivor and that's just simply a miss play on his part.
"That leaves Unbreakable, a perk that will see use in 1 in every 500 games. Killers don't take Hangmans trick, mad grit, or iron maiden for the same reason."
So if it's that rarely used then slugging really isn't happening that often, so which is it? Is it happening enough to make this perk good or is it not and this entire forum post is now mute. You're contradicting yourself.2 -
If 1 survivor is slugged the last isn't going to risk doing gens. It's just a hatch camp at that point. So the person on the ground is just waiting to bleed out.Blueberry said:@The_Crusader said:
Blueberry said:@Aven_Fallen said:
@Blueberry said:
Even if slugging is an issue to any survivor there are multiple anti slugging perks available, they just simply refuse to use them.
What are those Perks?
Unbreakable for sure, but please dont tell me you mean No Mither with this "Please pick me up, I will recover from dying state"-Sign.
Unbreakable, Tenacity and to an extent Adrenaline. This is on top of the fact that slugging was nerfed recently to where you can recover to only needing a second tap from another survivor to get you up or that with the recently added ranking system killers are punished for slugging as it doesn't get you any emblem points.
Lol what?
If there are 2 survivors left and 1 is slugged I can guarentee you Adrenaline isn't going to activate anytime soon.
Tenacity can't get you off the ground. You could crawl to the other person but chances are the killer will be keeping a watchful eye over you anyway so you'd just get the other person killed.
That leaves Unbreakable, a perk that will see use in 1 in every 500 games. Killers don't take Hangmans trick, mad grit, or iron maiden for the same reason.
" If there are 2 survivors left and 1 is slugged I can guarentee you Adrenaline isn't going to activate anytime soon."
This is entirely subjective. Many times you only need 1 or 2 gens and if the killer is really watching that closely over them then that shouldn't be a problem. If they aren't then that's an easy save.
"Tenacity can't get you off the ground. You could crawl to the other person but chances are the killer will be keeping a watchful eye over you anyway so you'd just get the other person killed."
The whole point is not that it gets you off the ground, it's that you are able to lose the killer and get off the ground quicker from a save. If he''s watching you so closely that he still doesn't lose you then that other survivor is getting to work on gens for free now isn't he. Also, only a stupid survivor is gonna be just crawling directly in the direction of the other survivor and that's just simply a miss play on his part.
"That leaves Unbreakable, a perk that will see use in 1 in every 500 games. Killers don't take Hangmans trick, mad grit, or iron maiden for the same reason."
So if it's that rarely used then slugging really isn't happening that often, so which is it? Is it happening enough to make this perk good or is it not and this entire forum post is now mute. You're contradicting yourself.
Sometimes the killer gets a 4k. Sometimes you escape. To be slugged you would need to be 1 of 2 last remaining survivors, and normally in this scenario there is no chance of getting the gens done - hence why the other survivor is hatch camping.
For me personally I'm the last remaining survivor and the other guy is slugged. So unbreakable wouldn't help.0 -
You can just slap the survivor on the butt and take your 3k. Same thing for the survivor side, let the killer sacrifice you by jumping in and move on.PiiFree said:That's what I'm doing by slugging. Problem solved.
Problem solved and you save 20 minutes of your time. Yeah, you're so welcome!
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@The_Crusader said:
Blueberry said:@The_Crusader said:
Blueberry said:
@Aven_Fallen said:
@Blueberry said:
Even if slugging is an issue to any survivor there are multiple anti slugging perks available, they just simply refuse to use them.
What are those Perks?
Unbreakable for sure, but please dont tell me you mean No Mither with this "Please pick me up, I will recover from dying state"-Sign. Unbreakable, Tenacity and to an extent Adrenaline. This is on top of the fact that slugging was nerfed recently to where you can recover to only needing a second tap from another survivor to get you up or that with the recently added ranking system killers are punished for slugging as it doesn't get you any emblem points. Lol what? If there are 2 survivors left and 1 is slugged I can guarentee you Adrenaline isn't going to activate anytime soon. Tenacity can't get you off the ground. You could crawl to the other person but chances are the killer will be keeping a watchful eye over you anyway so you'd just get the other person killed.
That leaves Unbreakable, a perk that will see use in 1 in every 500 games. Killers don't take Hangmans trick, mad grit, or iron maiden for the same reason.
" If there are 2 survivors left and 1 is slugged I can guarentee you Adrenaline isn't going to activate anytime soon."
This is entirely subjective. Many times you only need 1 or 2 gens and if the killer is really watching that closely over them then that shouldn't be a problem. If they aren't then that's an easy save.
"Tenacity can't get you off the ground. You could crawl to the other person but chances are the killer will be keeping a watchful eye over you anyway so you'd just get the other person killed."
The whole point is not that it gets you off the ground, it's that you are able to lose the killer and get off the ground quicker from a save. If he''s watching you so closely that he still doesn't lose you then that other survivor is getting to work on gens for free now isn't he. Also, only a stupid survivor is gonna be just crawling directly in the direction of the other survivor and that's just simply a miss play on his part.
"That leaves Unbreakable, a perk that will see use in 1 in every 500 games. Killers don't take Hangmans trick, mad grit, or iron maiden for the same reason."
So if it's that rarely used then slugging really isn't happening that often, so which is it? Is it happening enough to make this perk good or is it not and this entire forum post is now mute. You're contradicting yourself.
If 1 survivor is slugged the last isn't going to risk doing gens. It's just a hatch camp at that point. So the person on the ground is just waiting to bleed out.
Sometimes the killer gets a 4k. Sometimes you escape. To be slugged you would need to be 1 of 2 last remaining survivors, and normally in this scenario there is no chance of getting the gens done - hence why the other survivor is hatch camping.
For me personally I'm the last remaining survivor and the other guy is slugged. So unbreakable wouldn't help.
If he is camping the guy on the ground, the gens would be easy. If he's watching the gens then you can make a save. Both Unbreakable and Tenacity would counter these situations bar exceptions like the killer using Deerstalker but that is hardly meta at all.
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@Nickenzie said:
PiiFree said:@Aven_Fallen said:
@PiiFree said:
@Eveline said:
But it takes forever sometimes...
It's still way faster than the average time required for a hatch standoff.
Just dont do Hatch Stand-Offs. Problem solved.
That's what I'm doing by slugging. Problem solved.
You can just slap the survivor on the butt and take your 3k. Same thing for the survivor side, let the killer sacrifice you by jumping in and move on.
Problem solved and you save 20 minutes of your time. Yeah, you're so welcome!
Any solution that invovles willingly losing isn't one.
The solution on the survivor side is to do gens while the killer is on the hatch. And then to go to the hatch when the killer checks on the gens
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Killers gotta eat, too.0
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@Eveline said:
Swiftblade131 said:Why do survivors wait at the gates when no one is hooked?
That's totally the topic here.
Eye for an Eye
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No Mither, Unbreakable, Tenacity and Adrenaline.
Survivors have plenty Anti-Slug option but are unwilling to use them
The hatch forces the killer to slug to prevent the hatch to spawn and not risking a standoff.
I personality dislike the hatch, because it feels like a free win.
Slugging in general is too rewarding. If you run a slug build you can save yourself as the killer so much time, that can be used to pressure, hunt and slug the other survivors.
As a survivor I despise slugging. It's uninteractive and unfun.2 -
@Eveline said:
Don't get me wrong I don't even want the hatch I just want to move to the next game. It's so boring.It's the most killers can do if they want a 4k. Otherwise, they'll either need to find the survivor before they find the hatch or have a stand-off.
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Exactly, but others think wasting 30+ minutes is a even better option. Personally, if reach the hatch, I'll either kill myself or attack the survivor just so I can move on to the next game. It sucks that losing is the only option but hey, at least I get to keep 30 minutes of my life and spend them on those delicious bloodpoints!NuclearBurrito2 said:@Nickenzie said:
PiiFree said:@Aven_Fallen said:
@PiiFree said:
@Eveline said:
But it takes forever sometimes...
It's still way faster than the average time required for a hatch standoff.
Just dont do Hatch Stand-Offs. Problem solved.
That's what I'm doing by slugging. Problem solved.
You can just slap the survivor on the butt and take your 3k. Same thing for the survivor side, let the killer sacrifice you by jumping in and move on.
Problem solved and you save 20 minutes of your time. Yeah, you're so welcome!
Any solution that invovles willingly losing isn't one.
The solution on the survivor side is to do gens while the killer is on the hatch. And then to go to the hatch when the killer checks on the gens
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Because 4k'ing gives extra bloodpoints?
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@Nickenzie said:
NuclearBurrito2 said:@Nickenzie said:
PiiFree said:
@Aven_Fallen said: @PiiFree said: @Eveline said: But it takes forever sometimes... It's still way faster than the average time required for a hatch standoff. Just dont do Hatch Stand-Offs. Problem solved. That's what I'm doing by slugging. Problem solved. You can just slap the survivor on the butt and take your 3k. Same thing for the survivor side, let the killer sacrifice you by jumping in and move on.
Problem solved and you save 20 minutes of your time. Yeah, you're so welcome!
Any solution that invovles willingly losing isn't one.
The solution on the survivor side is to do gens while the killer is on the hatch. And then to go to the hatch when the killer checks on the gens
Exactly, but others think wasting 30+ minutes is a even better option. Personally, if reach the hatch, I'll either kill myself or attack the survivor just so I can move on to the next game. It sucks that losing is the only option but hey, at least I get to keep 30 minutes of my life and spend them on those delicious bloodpoints!
The point is that you balance and make plans with the assumption that winning is your #1 priority. Because when it isn't you aren't trying to play optimally in the first place.
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Whenever I have to slug for a 4k, I'll usually give the person who got slugged the hatch if it takes a while to find the 4th person. Unless they're a DS user of course.
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Any solution that invovles willingly losing isn't one.Except the killer has already won because they pipped, likely even double pipped. A 4k is not what defines a win in this game, it's only a win based on your arbitrary rules. Survivor on the other hand does risk "losing" by jumping into the hatch to get grabbed because they can lose their pip for that. This is almost NEVER the situation for the killer, unless it's something like 3 survivors escaped already and the last one is just greedy for hatch.
I freely give hatch in a ton of my games (and some games people get it legit) I still "won" because I got a 3k and pipped/double pipped.
Like I said in the other thread, if you gave up this idea that "4k = only win condition" then you would probably get a lot more enjoyment and a lot less frustration out of playing killer.
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We have been over this.thesuicidefox said:@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Any solution that invovles willingly losing isn't one.Except the killer has already won because they pipped, likely even double pipped. A 4k is not what defines a win in this game, it's only a win based on your arbitrary rules. Survivor on the other hand does risk "losing" by jumping into the hatch to get grabbed because they can lose their pip for that. This is almost NEVER the situation for the killer, unless it's something like 3 survivors escaped already and the last one is just greedy for hatch.
I freely give hatch in a ton of my games (and some games people get it legit) I still "won" because I got a 3k and pipped/double pipped.
Like I said in the other thread, if you gave up this idea that "4k = only win condition" then you would probably get a lot more enjoyment and a lot less frustration out of playing killer.
Also even if I agreed with you (I don't) then I would still want to 4k because I don't see if I have pipped or not until after the game ends. So I can't make ingame decisions based on it2 -
Who is standing at a hatch for ten minutes? Are you joking? Standoff should never exist. Just take the hit or the hook or whatever and get it over with. No one has anything to prove over a hatch. It doesn't mean one of you is better than the other. Just end the game and let both players move on.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Any solution that invovles willingly losing isn't one.Except the killer has already won because they pipped, likely even double pipped. A 4k is not what defines a win in this game, it's only a win based on your arbitrary rules. Survivor on the other hand does risk "losing" by jumping into the hatch to get grabbed because they can lose their pip for that. This is almost NEVER the situation for the killer, unless it's something like 3 survivors escaped already and the last one is just greedy for hatch.
I freely give hatch in a ton of my games (and some games people get it legit) I still "won" because I got a 3k and pipped/double pipped.
Like I said in the other thread, if you gave up this idea that "4k = only win condition" then you would probably get a lot more enjoyment and a lot less frustration out of playing killer.
Pips in this game do not decide if you won or not. If we were going by pips then on most matches everyone would be a winner as it's extremely hard not to pip. Basing your wins on pips is you thinking you won when you're given a participation trophy.
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When it comes to taking so long, don't forget one of the killer emblems (gate keeper) is to keep the gens from being done for 10 mins. Prolonging the game seems like what the killer is suppose to do from the devs.
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
We have been over this.Also even if I agreed with you (I don't) then I would still want to 4k because I don't see if I have pipped or not until after the game ends. So I can't make ingame decisions based on it
If only 2 gens have been done that a guaranteed silver in Gatekeeper. If the game lasted anything over 5 minutes that's going to bump it up to at least gold. That's 3 points toward a pip.
3 kills = 6 points in Devout, a guaranteed gold. Another 3 points.
If you got 3 kills then you got 2 hits one every survivor and 3 hook stages. That's 8 Malicious points per survivor if everyone gets 1 hooked. At 3 survivors that's 24 Malicious which is silver.
We are now sitting at 8 points towards a pip. That leaves Chaser, where we only need a bronze (at most silver), and considering that you caught at least 3 survivors chances are VERY HIGH that you got at least bronze in this category, if not silver or gold.
So barring some super extreme circumstances (eg. Tombstone Myers) you are guaranteed to pip even if you let the last survivor hatch and you never caught them. You will definitely never depip in this situation. If you are in any way a good killer that got multiple hooks and won multiple chases, you will pip. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize this during the game.
You can totally make in-game decisions if you understand how emblems work. Here take a read... https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Emblems
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You can just jump through the hatch and give the Killer the 4k. It literally does nothing, you still lost the game.
Is that your kind of argumentation? I'm honestly getting tired of all that BS here. "Just give the Survivor the free escape!". Is that your imagination of a balanced mechanic? To give up that "Flawless Victory" (the 4k, what every Killer should aim for) just to save themselves a ######### 20 minute hatch standoff?
Really, stop being so damn biased. In my 2000 hours of playtime I not once had a Survivor giving me the "free 4k" in the end. Not once. How often did I give out free hatches? I lost count, probably around the 100s by now.
That's the entitlement Survivors have and instead of for once simply agreeing with the fact that the hatch is an absolutely horrible mechanic (regardless of which side you're on) all you guys do is tell Killers to give up on their 4k and hand out free escapes - and quite ironically you also tell them to stop slugging to prevent it from happening in first place. Ironic, isn't it? Almost as if you sooo badly want that hatch escape.
I love to discussus on this forum but when I see stuff like that I know it's a pointless argumentation. So I'll leave this thread as there's nothing but unconstructive BS in here. Have fun.
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Good grief the hatch isn't a free escape get over yourselves because the survivors had to do their objective enough for it to even spawn and then actually make it out alive.
I don't do hatch standoffs, I go look for them and if it was a good match and I find it 1st i let them know where it is then roam off.
My ego isn't that large that I've got to get my 4k and if someone gets out come to the forums and whine about it being a free escape.
Watching all the whining on here about it is no different than watching a bunch of 6 year olds whine over someone winning a board game because gasp they did what they were supposed to.
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It's amazing that so many people complain about a mechanic that ends games (that the killers have already likely won) faster. The only thing that needs ######### fixing about the Hatch is the stand-off that occurs.
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@powerbats said:
Good grief the hatch isn't a free escape get over yourselves because the survivors had to do their objective enough for it to even spawn and then actually make it out alive.I don't do hatch standoffs, I go look for them and if it was a good match and I find it 1st i let them know where it is then roam off.
My ego isn't that large that I've got to get my 4k and if someone gets out come to the forums and whine about it being a free escape.
Watching all the whining on here about it is no different than watching a bunch of 6 year olds whine over someone winning a board game because gasp they did what they were supposed to.
You realize that this is a thread of a Survivor whining about Killers preventing a hatch standoff from happening by slugging the 3rd?
Has nothing to do with ego either but w/e.
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I personally hate slugging and hate to be slugged.
Only cases I personally find myself slugging is last standing survivor is my 4th BBQ stack or I dont want toxic survivor escaping so its "personal" issue.
All in all if you ask me hatch should give 0 points to encourage all the crab people to contribute towards winning as a team instead of "ignore all, do 2 gens and hatch escape with 12k points"3 -
I only intentionally slug the third if I want the adept achievement with a killer. I don't feel like wasting my time more than necessary. If I find the 4th and down him before he escapes, cool, but I ain't gonna get mad if he escapes through the hatch.
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I think the biggest disparity is coming from a unanimous understanding of a victory.
For some a victory includes a pip, for other it is a 4k and also others just want to maximize their BP.
Letting someone escape is against the 4kers and against the BP-players.
To me BP is more valuable than a pip.
Rank is meaningless, not entirely correct, ranking up is disadvantageous. You get longer queue times, more unfun matchups, less killer variey ect.
A simply BP modifier attached to ranks would be more than enough to motivate player on both sides to rank up.0 -
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@The_Crusader said:
Because sweat.I don't mind when they do it after a well earned victory. I just hate when they try it after a 3vs1 game where they had a big advantage, or when they do it after camping all game and having noob survivors feed them kills.
On behalf of the killer community we'd like to inform you of how much thought we put into you minding something and thank you for your approval. The quality of this community can never be attributed properly in words and standing among one's opponents means something indescribable. The level of intellect and humility you demonstrate has a certain Je Ne Sais Quoi. You are one of the few, the crème de la crème.
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if this isnt some of the most biased, one sided thinking ive ever seen I don't know what is. you're not entitled to anything buddy lmfao its a ######### gameDwight_Confusion said:If its a SWF team, and they were annoying... I'll slug. Period.
I'm entitled to slug, I'm entitled to kill.
In a game called "dead by daylight" the survivors aren't entitled to survive.
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Exactly. There's no sense of honour or sportsmanship in this gamr.Tucking_Friggered said:@The_Crusader said:
Because sweat.I don't mind when they do it after a well earned victory. I just hate when they try it after a 3vs1 game where they had a big advantage, or when they do it after camping all game and having noob survivors feed them kills.
On behalf of the killer community we'd like to inform you of how much thought we put into you minding something and thank you for your approval. The quality of this community can never be attributed properly in words and standing among one's opponents means something indescribable. The level of intellect and humility you demonstrate has a certain Je Ne Sais Quoi. You are one of the few, the crème de la crème.
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@The_Crusader said:
Tucking_Friggered said:@The_Crusader said:
Because sweat.
I don't mind when they do it after a well earned victory. I just hate when they try it after a 3vs1 game where they had a big advantage, or when they do it after camping all game and having noob survivors feed them kills.
On behalf of the killer community we'd like to inform you of how much thought we put into you minding something and thank you for your approval. The quality of this community can never be attributed properly in words and standing among one's opponents means something indescribable. The level of intellect and humility you demonstrate has a certain Je Ne Sais Quoi. You are one of the few, the crème de la crème.
Exactly. There's no sense of honour or sportsmanship in this gamr.
The funny thing is a lot of killers don't like to slug and most only do it for the adept, if the people are jerks, or you've got that one person sandbagging their team.
As a killer amin I only do it for those reasons and if the persons really a jerk I'll just let them bleed out and let the others do gens. I'll chase them but that one person if no hook is close is dying slowly.
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@PiiFree said:
@powerbats said:
Good grief the hatch isn't a free escape get over yourselves because the survivors had to do their objective enough for it to even spawn and then actually make it out alive.I don't do hatch standoffs, I go look for them and if it was a good match and I find it 1st i let them know where it is then roam off.
My ego isn't that large that I've got to get my 4k and if someone gets out come to the forums and whine about it being a free escape.
Watching all the whining on here about it is no different than watching a bunch of 6 year olds whine over someone winning a board game because gasp they did what they were supposed to.
You realize that this is a thread of a Survivor whining about Killers preventing a hatch standoff from happening by slugging the 3rd?
Has nothing to do with ego either but w/e.
My comment was directed at all the whiny people who when confronted with facts about it go make a new thread or post the exact same disproven comments.
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@Cymer said:
Rank is meaningless, not entirely correct, ranking up is disadvantageous. You get longer queue times, more unfun matchups, less killer variey ect.Because both killer and survivors in your rank are playing for kills/escapes and not the pip. PIP IS THE WIN CONDITION AS DEFINIED BY THE GAME. Any other "win condition" is purely imaginary and of your own accord.
If you are lower rank killer you aren't playing for pips, and therefore you run into survivors that aren't playing for pips. If neither side is playing for pips, then they have to be playing for kills/escapes. If they are playing for kills/escapes the game will be less fun for the other side because they will just use a lot of OP stuff and lame tactics to get what they want. Even though it's not actually a win.
When you get players that play for pips (high ranks) then you see less OP stuff and fewer lame tactics because kills/escapes are not as important. It's actually way more fun, and if more people realized this there would be more players at high ranks and thus shorter queue times. But we have a whole group of killers and survivors that have this almost antiquated perception about what constitutes a win in DBD.
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CaUsE hAtCh Is A gOoD gAmE mEcHaNiC0
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I rarely care about the hatch. If I hook the third and I find the 4th before they reach the hatch, then I clearly deserve that kill. If I can't find them, then I ask where the hatch was/where they hid. Makes me a better hunter/killer. I don't need to slug or 4k to feel any sense of satisfaction or to stroke any ego.
I have found that .any other killers are very salty about not getting a 4k, regardless of hatch or door.
If they slug, I go full stealth mode and see if they are hunting or camping. If hunting, I'll get the other up. If camping, I'll either get a gen, or start hitting totems and chests and settle in for a 30 minute game of hide and seek. If they don't slug and I find them at the hatch, I'll run straight at them and try to jump in. If I get it, great, if not, great but we both deserve to move on to the next game, gg.2 -
@thesuicidefox said:
Because both killer and survivors in your rank are playing for kills/escapes and not the pip. PIP IS THE WIN CONDITION AS DEFINIED BY THE GAME. Any other "win condition" is purely imaginary and of your own accord.
Huh. You may want to let the DBD game director know that... since as of Nov 2018, he seems to not be aware of that.
Per Twitchcon 2018 interview:
Cote: "One of the difficulties is that the game does not have a clear-cut win/lose condition. It's more of a gradient of did I have a good game, do I feel like I’ve accomplished much, was it fun? We play in those waters and that doesn’t lend itself very well to tournaments with very strict rules sports thing. "3 -
Once again you don't understand.thesuicidefox said:@Cymer said:
Rank is meaningless, not entirely correct, ranking up is disadvantageous. You get longer queue times, more unfun matchups, less killer variey ect.Because both killer and survivors in your rank are playing for kills/escapes and not the pip. PIP IS THE WIN CONDITION AS DEFINIED BY THE GAME. Any other "win condition" is purely imaginary and of your own accord.
If you are lower rank killer you aren't playing for pips, and therefore you run into survivors that aren't playing for pips. If neither side is playing for pips, then they have to be playing for kills/escapes. If they are playing for kills/escapes the game will be less fun for the other side because they will just use a lot of OP stuff and lame tactics to get what they want. Even though it's not actually a win.
When you get players that play for pips (high ranks) then you see less OP stuff and fewer lame tactics because kills/escapes are not as important. It's actually way more fun, and if more people realized this there would be more players at high ranks and thus shorter queue times. But we have a whole group of killers and survivors that have this almost antiquated perception about what constitutes a win in DBD.
The question was, why killer slug for 4k?
I offered you all my answer and the truth is, not all killers play for the pip. They define their victory different.
You need to learn that it not always matter what is the "correct" win condition.
You need to realize that we are living in a world where everyone has a different perception and define fun and victory for themselves.
If there are killers out there, who are slugging for the 4k because they want the feeling of utter annihilation of their opponent or to maximize their BP, you have no right to tell them how they define their own fun nor tell them how they should play.
If you would write a guide to DBD, how to play the game and "win", then you are absolutely right to advise the reader to focus on pips and just play constantly to climb in rank.
But this was never the question!
Slowly I wonder if you purposely misunderstand or refuse to understand your fellow players and are in to stir a commotion.
Is that the reason you are jailed?
Just try to understand the community to whom your are talking. Understand that their are different approach how to play and enjoy the game and help to create a game that let's as much player play as they like on a way that is fun and enjoyable for everyone.
Please stop discussing about the definitions of terms like wincondition or power role ect.
I know you are smart enough to understand what the others try to say and work with us in a positive and constructive way to create a game, where we all can have fun!0 -
Because when killers complain about the hatch, survivors (and some killers) tell them “just slug for the 4K”, then get yelled at for slugging. It’s an endless loop.1
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@Cymer said:
I offered you all my answer and the truth is, not all killers play for the pip. They define their victory different.Then don't complain about the game. Unless you play for a pip you have no right to complain. I could sit here and say "well my win condition as survivor is to always escape with an item" then complain about Franklin's because it contradicts my win condition. That's literally what all of you are doing.
You need to learn that it not always matter what is the "correct" win condition.
You need to realize that we are living in a world where everyone has a different perception and define fun and victory for themselves.
If there are killers out there, who are slugging for the 4k because they want the feeling of utter annihilation of their opponent or to maximize their BP, you have no right to tell them how they define their own fun nor tell them how they should play.Doesn't change that pip is a win condition as defined by the game. If you want to have fun doing something else don't complain when things don't go your way BECAUSE IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO.
Please stop discussing about the definitions of terms like wincondition or power role ect.
Terms matter because they imply something about the game. Calling something a POWER ROLE is different than calling it THE AGGRESSOR ROLE. They have different connotations. Win condition matters, and pip is what the game considers a win. If you want to play some other way to have fun, I'm not saying don't. I'm just saying that you have no right to complain because the game isn't meant for you to 4k/escape every game. You have to accept you won't meet your very high standard of what's a win, and because you don't play according to the game's win condition you get match with like minded players, players that bring OP stuff and are out to beat your win condition (and with their own win conditions that are not a pip).
Post edited by thesuicidefox on3 -
@thesuicidefox Yet again you miss the point.
I never told you, that I disagree with pipping is the games win condition.
Humans are different and when the majority is playing for other reasons the wincondition can be altered and changed.
Often games changes in ways the devs original never intended, players finding playstyles, exploits in the game mechanic that enhances the gameplay and are expression of skill. If such an exploit is too powerful or game breaking the devs usually interfere.
One of the recent example for this is the Moonwalking Legion. 360° from survivors or voice was also never a thing the devs had planned.
If you work with humans you need to be flexible and need to have the ability to compromise.
If no one is playing for the pip, because pipping is not rewarding but punishing for most of the players then there need to be some adjustments.
If the majority of players play for the kills or for BP and this motivation is the major driving force for their in game decisions you need to alter the game around this.
Again you are so stuck with your thinking of what is the correct way, the correct terms that you miss OPs question.
Why killers slug for the 4k?
Because the majority of the killers have other values than solely pipping.
Because humans are no machines.
Emotions, personal pride and gain are deeply ingrained into the human psychology.
If you truly want to understand why people playing the way they do, you cannot hit everyone with the same hammer!
If everyone is playing for the BP or 4k then the game has to evolve further.
Either by putting a higher emphasis on pips or a shift in winconditions.
I personally don't like slugging, it's unintuitive and boring for the slugged one, yet sometimes necessary.
I am all for it to explore new possibilities how to play the game and how to maximize the fun for everyone.
Change and adaptation is a good and healthy thing and I hope you will learn this one day and stop repeating yourself like a broken record and start to embrace the variety of mankind and new possibilities.
I wish you all the best.0 -
@TheMidnightRidr said:
Because when killers complain about the hatch, survivors (and some killers) tell them “just slug for the 4K”, then get yelled at for slugging. It’s an endless loop.Exactly this.
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Dude slugging has got so bad that they don’t even do it just Bc of hatch anymore it will be beginning or mid game and they’ll start slugging for the 4K and it’s so hard to combat if they’re any good at it. I’ve become so sick of sluggers Bc it’s not just end game anymore.2
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@HeroLives said:
Dude slugging has got so bad that they don’t even do it just Bc of hatch anymore it will be beginning or mid game and they’ll start slugging for the 4K and it’s so hard to combat if they’re any good at it. I’ve become so sick of sluggers Bc it’s not just end game anymore.That's exactly what happens when people insult me for "slugging to avoid the hatch standoff", like I presented in the meme above xD it's based on a true story.
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@Cymer said:
Yet again you miss the point.
I never told you, that I disagree with pipping is the games win condition.THEN DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT GAME MECHANICS.
If you play to your own standards fine, go ahead, I'm not telling you that you have to play for a pip. What I am telling you is that you have no right to complain about ANYTHING that goes against what you consider a win. If you want a 4k, slug away. But don't sit there and complain that survivors let each other bleed out to hatch. Don't complain about perks like DS or Adren that increase a survivor's chance to escape. Don't complain about hatch ANYTHING (especially if you are already slugging). Don't complain about loops. Don't complain about gen rush. Just sit there and SHUT UP because the game should not bend to your imaginary rules.
@Cymer said: Again you are so stuck with your thinking of what is the correct way, the correct terms that you miss OPs question.
Contrary to what you think, or what anyone thinks, there is actually a RIGHT and WRONG way to play a game. The RIGHT way is to play optimally in order to win. The WRONG way is everything else. That's not to say you can't play WRONG if you want to, you have the freedom to do this. But if you do, then you lost the right to criticize the game. Example, if you want to only move pawns in Chess until you are forced to use another piece you are objectively playing the game WRONG because that is a losing strategy. Therefore, you have no right to say that the Knight is overpowered because he can sidestep pawns where other pieces are blocked if another piece is in it's path. To do so suggests that you want the game to bend to your will, instead of the opposite where you adapt to play the game correctly. This goes for ANY game, including video games, and including DBD.
Also there can be multiple RIGHT ways to play a game, but only if those ways result in a win.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Cymer said:
Yet again you miss the point.
I never told you, that I disagree with pipping is the games win condition.THEN DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT GAME MECHANICS.
If you play to your own standards fine, go ahead, I'm not telling you that you have to play for a pip. What I am telling you is that you have no right to complain about ANYTHING that goes against what you consider a win. If you want a 4k, slug away. But don't sit there and complain that survivors let each other bleed out to hatch. Don't complain about perks like DS or Adren that increase a survivor's chance to escape. Don't complain about hatch ANYTHING (especially if you are already slugging). Don't complain about loops. Don't complain about gen rush. Just sit there and SHUT UP because the game should not bend to your imaginary rules.
@Cymer said: Again you are so stuck with your thinking of what is the correct way, the correct terms that you miss OPs question.
Contrary to what you think, or what anyone thinks, there is actually a RIGHT and WRONG way to play a game. The RIGHT way is to play optimally in order to win. The WRONG way is everything else. That's not to say you can't play WRONG if you want to, you have the freedom to do this. But if you do, then you lost the right to criticize the game. Example, if you want to only move pawns in Chess until you are forced to use another piece you are objectively playing the game WRONG because that is a losing strategy. Therefore, you have no right to say that the Knight is overpowered because he can sidestep pawns where other pieces are blocked if another piece is in it's path. To do so suggests that you want the game to bend to your will, instead of the opposite where you adapt to play the game correctly. This goes for ANY game, including video games, and including DBD.
Also there can be multiple RIGHT ways to play a game, but only if those ways result in a win.
Please point to the line in the game that says you are supposed to pip in this game. I can show where it says that the survivors are supposed to escape and where it says that the killers are supposed to sacrifice. But I don't see pip's mentioned anywhere outside of when you are told you got them.
Yes you rank by getting them. But many games have their ranking systems separate from their games wincondition.
Overwatch and battleright are 2 examples off the top of my head that use performance rather than a binary win/lose to determine ranks
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Overwatch and battleright are 2 examples off the top of my head that use performance rather than a binary win/lose to determine ranksWhich is exactly what a pip is, except due to the asymmetrical and random nature of the game it is also the win condition because escaping every game or 4k'ing every game is impossible even if you are really good. Sometimes things happen that are beyond your ability to overcome, eg. bad totem placement. That can cost you kills AND a pip if it's in a bad spot. But it can also almost carry you to get kills/pip if it's in a good spot. Due to this sort of stuff, you can not use purely kills/escapes as a measure of a win or loss.
And for every game you cite that has performance as the measure to rank up instead of a pure win/loss (which a game like Overwatch has clearly defined and you aren't screwed by RNG, both not like in DBD so it's not really comparable in the first place) there are 10 more that rank purely on win/loss.
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@PiiFree said:
That's exactly what happens when people insult me for "slugging to avoid the hatch standoff", like I presented in the meme above xD it's based on a true story.I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you get salt from this because you either 1) camped the slug hoping the other guy was potato enough to come save, and/or 2) you let the guy bleed out.
It's one thing to slug and give them both a chance to escape in return for getting a chance to 4k, it's another to just drag out the game forever because you just NEED DA PHOREK HAY REEEEE.
PS. I'm not attacking you personally, this post is to all killers. I'm just quoting you to make a point about the situation.
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