Hex perks

Tsulan

The idea of Hex perks was, to give survivors additional objectives. Something else to do instead of only holding M1 until the gen is done. Hex perks were supposed to be a "high risk, high reward" thing. But the reality is sadly different. Most Hex perks are a medium reward at best. Not even because they get cleansed in the first 60 seconds, but because their effects are just meh.
Here´s a list of all Hex perks:

• Ruin: Most will argue, that Ruin is a success, since every killer uses it. But it´s more of a necessity to slow survivors down, instead of being a good perk. Experienced players just power through it, since they can hit most great skill checks. Unexperienced players gen tap and both groups can finish the gens pretty fast.
• Devour Hope: Is great against new players or when a new map comes out. But usually it get´s cleansed pretty fast. While it would be THE best anti camping perk around, IF it wasn´t for that little detail, that it can be cleansed.
• The Third Seal: I don´t really know why this is a Hex perk. Since it´s effect is meh at best. But being a cleansable perk?
• Huntress Lullaby: Makes skill checks a little more interesting. But the warning that it exists, even before it has a effect? Would be a great perk, if it wasn´t a Hex.
• Thrill of the Hunt: Is a must perk to protect other Hex totems. But since we can´t see, which totem is what Hex, we can lose the wrong one, when several totems are cleansed at the same time. The 10% Bloodpoint bonus is still bugged, and only starts working once the first totem has been cleansed. Since the bonus Bloodpoints apply during the match instead of after the match like BBQ, its pretty meh on it´s own.

My Balance proposal would be to convert all the Hex perks into normal perks. That can´t be cleansed. Since the perks themselfes are not strong enough to justify, that they can be deactivated.
There are no survivor perks that can be deactivated before they can be used. Why force something like this on killers?

robin

While I agree hex perks are in need of some work, they should still be hex perks and should be able to be cleansed. I think being able to move the hex to a dull totem as the killer would help, adding skillchecks to totem cleansing, and removing the warnings survivors get that they're cursed could fix the problem, at least somewhat. Yeah, you can still do gens with ruin, but it is a pain and I wouldn't want that to stay all game, and NOED would be ridiculous if you couldn't cleanse it.

Techn0

Honestly I see a lot of talk on how to "fix" the hex totem situation. I personally think they should all stay as cleans-able perks. My ideal fix would just be making the Hex spawn near the killer instead of on the opposite side of the map because a survivor will always spawn there. Third seal and Huntress lullaby really need something to help them out though. I'd like lullaby to lose the notification and third seal to start with everybody blind until the totem is cleansed. A lot of problems would be fixed if the notifications for hexes would go.

Tsulan

@robin said:
While I agree hex perks are in need of some work, they should still be hex perks and should be able to be cleansed. I think being able to move the hex to a dull totem as the killer would help, adding skillchecks to totem cleansing, and removing the warnings survivors get that they're cursed could fix the problem, at least somewhat. Yeah, you can still do gens with ruin, but it is a pain and I wouldn't want that to stay all game, and NOED would be ridiculous if you couldn't cleanse it.

As i said, the Hex perks have been introduced to give survivors something else to do. But they ignore the totems completely and only do burning totems. Hex perks should be either a lot more powerful, to justify the tradeoff of risking a perkslot being taken away or they should be normal perks. Since only Devour Hope is really strong.

Fibijean

The main reason survivors ignore dull totems is because they net no reward except bloodpoints under the new emblem system. If you want to rank up, cleansing dull totems simply isn't an effective use of time. If anything this is a bonus for the killers as it makes NOED more likely to activate.

My personal opinion, which I already posted on a different thread about hex perks (copied and pasted from my reply there), is this:

I do think it's a good idea that the killer should be able to choose which hex totem to apply their hex perk to, because otherwise it's just random and you can get a really good, hidden spot or a really bad one right in the open. Perhaps the perk doesn't come into effect until the killer has placed it, kind of like the trapper's/hag's traps having to be set before they do anything. Or maybe they can choose whether to place it themselves (and take up extra time ingame) or let it be placed randomly (and risk getting a bad spot).

Tsulan

Hex perks are not powerful enough to justify them being a Hex perk.

Fibijean

I disagree, but if that's really the case they should be buffed, not removed altogether.

Tsulan

@Fibijean said:
I disagree, but if that's really the case they should be buffed, not removed altogether.

Is Lullaby powerful? Or Third seal?

Fibijean

Lullaby is okay honestly. Especially at lower ranks, not so much at higher ranks. Everyone knows that third seal is a pretty garbage perk, but garbage perks certainly aren't limited to hexes. I'm not saying they're all amazing perks, just that your logic is flawed in suggesting that the solution is to remove the hex mechanic altogether.

Mc_Harty

@Tsulan said:

@Fibijean said:
I disagree, but if that's really the case they should be buffed, not removed altogether.

Is Lullaby powerful? Or Third seal?

Is Devour Hope powerful? Or NOED?

Lullaby could be strong if the survivors weren't notified of its existence until you have your first stack.

Third Seal is powerful when combined with Knock Out. You should try it.

Fibijean

@Mc_Harty I've honestly never experimented with third seal very much, but most perks that are bad on their own can do great things with the right loadout. Totally agree on the lullaby thing, seems more like a bug than anything else really.

Tsulan

@Fibijean said:
Lullaby is okay honestly. Especially at lower ranks, not so much at higher ranks. Everyone knows that third seal is a pretty garbage perk, but garbage perks certainly aren't limited to hexes. I'm not saying they're all amazing perks, just that your logic is flawed in suggesting that the solution is to remove the hex mechanic altogether.

We have very powerful survivor perks, that are way more powerful than Lullaby or Third Seal. They can´t be rendered useless by cleansing a totem or anything. They can´t be eliminated 30 seconds after the match started.

Totohli

It just ain't good (imo) how they are lit up straight at the start.

I would love to test out huntress lullaby and third seal more for example, but most of the time they rarely last a minute in the game.

Bit of thinking could be that they aren't lit up before certain requirements are met:

Hex: Ruin -> One gen needs to pop before one totem becomes a hex totem
Huntress's Lullaby & Devour hope-> Two people need to get hooked before one totem becomes a hex totem
Thrill of the Hunt would be better as a regular perk to be honest..
Third Seal -> After hitting every survivor once one totem becomes a hex totem

All of the effects are active straight from the start (so the first gen they need to do has Ruin effect on it, but no totem yet to get rid of it).
And if survivors decide to cleanse all normal totems first, they punish themselves for the Lightbringer emblem and they will get less points.

Things like that, this is just what i thought of in 5 minutes 'tho, needs some adjustments.

Sinistrous

The third seal is a really good perk. If anything they just need to fix spawn positions for the hex totems

Fibijean

@Tsulan said:

@Fibijean said:
Lullaby is okay honestly. Especially at lower ranks, not so much at higher ranks. Everyone knows that third seal is a pretty garbage perk, but garbage perks certainly aren't limited to hexes. I'm not saying they're all amazing perks, just that your logic is flawed in suggesting that the solution is to remove the hex mechanic altogether.

We have very powerful survivor perks, that are way more powerful than Lullaby or Third Seal. They can´t be rendered useless by cleansing a totem or anything. They can´t be eliminated 30 seconds after the match started.

The worst survivor perks are as bad as the worst killer perks, and tbh none of the hex perks are even among the worst killer perks. If you're going to compare the best survivor perks to some mediocre killer ones, of course your data is going to be skewed. Once again, the hex mechanic is not what is wrong with those perks.

TigerKirby215

I understand why Third Seal is a Hex, since it's a very annoying perk to face against, but I think it could've easily been time based as opposed to just having a maximum amount of survivors affected at a time. But "lol Hag gotta have all Hex perks even if only one of them is any good." Just like how Myers and Laurie have Obession perks and the one perk that isn't (heavily) obession related (DS) is actually useful.

PigNRun

I am going to just sit in the corner alone and say that Devour Hope is indeed a high risk high reward perk. But, yes, totem locations.

Dwight_Confusion

The issue with hex totems is simple...

1. Either rework placements so that hex totems are in tricky spots on different maps only.
2. Make a hex totel take 20 seconds to cleanse and leave things the way they are.

Doing this will make hex perks more viable. I never get to use Devour Hope. It's a super strong perk, but never get past 2 stacks... ever.

Ruin helps, but is always found quite quickly. The current cleanse time is what 14 seconds? Just make it 20 for a hex and then make Dull totems 12 or something to offset.