Mettle Of Man facts
Comments
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That's why you can't use it instantly, you're going to get at least a single hook on every survivor since it takes two hits to down them. After the survivor uses the perk and heal to the healthy state, your killer has Freddy's aura reading ability. If it's your Obsession, use Rancor and DON'T down them since when the last generator is powered, you can use MoM to find the Obsession. It's a free mori if you think about it.
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Couple of things. First of all, you take one point out of my entire post and ignore everything else. Second of all, you discount the validity of that argument. You don't need to grab someone off a gen twice to negate the perk. You only need to grab them off the gen once. Next you down them while injured after being rescued. Final hook, doesn't matter if they are full health and need hit twice. There is a big difference between grabbing someone off a gen once or twice.
But let's just forget the gen grabbing thing altogether. You simply can not argue with the fact that 6 out of the current 15 killers can completely negate the perk with their base kit. That is not a small percentage. Assuming all killers are played equally (we both know this isn't true, but for the sake of simple math it won't be too far off) that is a 40% chance that a survivor going into a game with this perk will have no benefit. That isn't factoring in numerous other things such as mori's or perks with exposed effects such as NOED. So roughly half the games a survivor runs this perk it won't go off if they die.
That also doesn't account for the times the survivor runs this perk and would survive without the perk. In which case it did nothing for them anyway. Any perk that gives no benefit in more than half the games it is used in is already not overpowered. All of this doesn't even account for the huge built in handicap with the perk. Having the killer be able to see your aura until they down you is a big deal. If there are two survivors left and one of them can always be seen by the killer then how hard is it to get 4 kills? You can forget the hatch that game.
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This will become the new "chase me!" perk, but Rancor and Save the Best for Last will probably counter it pretty hard.
Mettle of Man would be good with Self Care to 99%. MoM absorbs a hit, and then you heal, get hit again, and then again if you have an instant heal. Even more hilarious if you also have Dead Hard and juke a hit.
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I didn't think of this. It could be possible that getting hit might reset healing progress. I'll have to check, but prolly won't happen. There are too many circumstances to test and my friends don't want to be doing lab work, they want to play normal games LOL.
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@Eninya STBFL isn't a counter because MoM is an obsession perk.
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@Nickenzie Seeing the survivor's aura doesn't mean that you are able to use Rancor. The killer can only focus on one thing. If the killer is already busy, then he's busy.
Besides, if the surv doesn't heal, the aura effect will not activate. In lots of games survivors aren't even healing, because it's more efficient to just stay injured and rush gens.
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But suicidefox has already done the testing...
- You get 2 hits, you hook.
- Survivor unhooks, heals
- You get a hit, perk is active. You take another hit to 'get rid of' the free health state just like you would eat a DS. Now you keep chasing, down them, hook them.
- They unhook, heal, now their aura is active.
- Now you can find them with Rancor. But guess what? They're on their third hook anyway. So you're gaining nothing really but a free instadown with Rancor. Could just take NOED and have a free instadown on the entire team.
Oh and even better, if they know you have Rancor then they sure as hell won't be healing on that third hook to give you their aura. They're gonna be down in 1 hit anyway once the last gen is done so why would they?
There's no point to taking Rancor other than to use the mori. They're gonna be on their third hook anyway by the time this perk is active. So much like DS it's a free escape that you have to eat.
Post edited by The_Crusader on3 -
I’d probably tweak this perk to be able to avoid 1 instadown putting you into injured instead of dying, same aura effects , same obsession effect. Does not apply to m1 attacks on a fourth hit only an insta fourth hit. Can only be used once per match. There more balanced. Now lower tier killers don’t get completely $h1T on.
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"it has a condition and a penalty after use, you don't get a free health state for doing nothing, you have to work for it. If this perk"
Here lie the problem.
The reason peoples complained about Decisive Strike.
I thought the Devs were heading in the good direction with his recent nerf.
The path of removing this kind of cheesy mechanics, like every veterans asked since the Halloween chapter.
...Only to see them preparing a new version of it, like a mix with Dead Hard, in a obviously incoming PAID dlc.
How convenient.
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If you don't heal at all during the game then running Mettle Of Man is equivalent to not running Mettle Of Man and healing exactly once (because it essentially gives you a second injured state). In other words you trade a perk slot to save the time it would take to heal yourself (or be healed by someone else) once.
That's not even taking into account the prerequisite of being hit three times by basic attacks first or the anti-synergy with a lot of perks (and medkits): Adrenaline and Self-Care (and medkits) will cause you to be revealed so you don't really want to run them together with Mettle Of Man, any healing perk on another survivor that wants to heal you is wasted (We'll Make It, Autodidact, Botany Knowledge, ...) and how it's a dead perk against killers with the ability to instantly down you.
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I don't know how strong or weak the perk will be
But it does amuse me that the next supposingluy hand-holding perk is named MoM
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If the killer is taking a hook over a mori then you aren't making a good choice as the killer. About the no heal part, the survivor is basically broken for the remainder of the trial. Therefore, if no survivor heals then you only need one hit so, in other words, chases are 100% faster than normal. Not bad in my opinion.
If they don't heal, they're basically exposed for the entire trial since healing reveals your aura. Once you take care of their "free health state", they are injured and easy to down. Trust me, survivors are weak when you strip them from their defenses. Isn't that enough of a setback?
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Survivors dont heal and it punishes the killer ? Lol
I wish my games to have survivors not healing so often
About Mettle of Man,
Yeah sure lets prevent the decent perk that has counters from its existence.
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By the time the survivors aura is able to be revealed they will be in death hook, which means it's late game anyway.
They heal to 99%. Killer can't see their aura. They do gens or play stealthy. If the killer finds them, they tap heal. Now they can take 2 hits and the aura reading doesnt matter since the killer has found them anyway and they're on their third hook.
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Hmm, alright, I can't argue this anymore since you made some good points. I guess the perk is a little to strong, but the only nerf it needs is having your aura exposed after you sponged the hit, not when you heal to the healthy state. The aura will stay permanently which means you'll be seen by the killer at all times until you're dead.
Sounds more fair?
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It’s a free missed swing, there’s not even a stun timer. Plus there’s that killer perk that lowers missed attack cooldowns if it becomes that big of an issue. That person is devoting all their perk slots in the case you mentioned for 1 emblem ONE don’t you think he deserves to last longer in a chase? I devote my perk slots to stealth, should that be nerfed too since I can go unseen a lot? I’m weaker against chases, so I’ll go down faster if I’m not in a good area. I’ll get the most gens, totems, and saves though.
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Its literally 1 hit guys... its basically the same as hitting them on hook on accident. Plus its 3 hits before it activates so its most likely going to trigger before a crucial point in the game. Stop making this perk seem overpowered when its actually quite useless...
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A little, but I still think it will be used by toxic players to bully the hell out of new players. Deranking twitch streamers and swf can just use the aura to tbag from afar and then loop all game.
The devs probably wouldnt consider your suggestion "fair" though.
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You get the attack cooldown, they get the speed boost. It will probably buy you as much distance as a DS and allow the survivor to reach a new loop. That will be nice when they reach something like the abbatoir window.
Enduring helped with DS from the get go - didn't stop people complaining. Now the counter is a perk which needs 8 tokens to reduce the oenalty of this perk, bearing in mind when you hit the obsession you're going to lose tokens anyway. 2 hits on the first, 2 hits on the second. Thats at max. So best case scenario you have 4 tokens and only get a 20% cooldown. Bearing in mind Enduring gave you a 75% reduction against DS.
But tell me, if I bring STBFL wouldn't I be better off just ignoring the obsession altogether?
Guess what, thats how DS was. It made more sense to just ignore the obsession all game.
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Ima be honest here... I wish you guys would just drop it and let this thread die. I'm getting a little sick of seeing 10+ notifications in my inbox. Is there a way to unsub from your own thread?
The perk probably won't be as strong as some of you make it out to be. It has some very strict requirements before it can be used, and if you are certain killers you can avoid it entirely (potentially all killers if you use a 1 shot). If the survivor gets to use it, then 99% themselves to avoid the aura reading, well that's smart play on the survivor's part. They should be rewarded in that case because they are maximizing the potential of the perk. It also has some drawbacks like the fact it makes you an obsession and the fact that it has the aura reading. You guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
I would go and play some games with these perks in KYF but my friends don't want to do that, they want to play the normal game. So I can't give you anything more than what I posted in the OP. You can think what you want, but the fact is this is a leak and things can indeed change before it is released. Chances are after this backlash the devs will at the very least have some scenarios to test they didn't think of. We also don't know what the killer could bring to the table, maybe they also have an obsession perk that is crazy strong which would then require an equally strong survivor perk to counter it. We don't know, and while there is a slim possibility there might not be a killer in this chapter, considering it is Evil Dead and that the series has TONS of characters that could potentially be killers, I will bet money that the chapter will come with a survivor AND a killer. And I will go as far right now to call the map... CABIN IN THE WOODS. Yep, the map will almost 100% be the cabin in the woods from the first 2 films/TV series. If not that, then the town of Elk Grove, so it might resemble Haddonfield or preschool in a way. But there is absolutely no way they would not want to included as much content as possible for an Evil Dead chapter.
Just please let it go. Wait for the official announcement, wait to actually play with the perks. We have no idea what the future will bring. Just let this thread die already. Stop arguing.
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It’s still only one emblem so odds are if you chase them long enough they aren’t pipping anyways. They’ll derank or safety at best Bc they’re only good in chases. You basically have to let the killer catch you as survivor so you and your team can get altruism to pip. Bc you have to score high in all catagories.
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Steep requirements to use? Lol what taking 3 hits? Then the 4th one is free.
The perk is basically "here you go buddy, if the killer is playing the game and hitting you then the next one doesn't count.
Also being the obsession isn't a punishment unless the killer is running Rancor, which barely any killers do. Even then it's only a punishment if the last gen gets done, if not then it's actually good for the survivor as you get to see the killers aura with no downside.
For me it's still DS 2.0
Decisive Strike:
- Gives a free health state
- Creates distance from the killer
- Extremely hard to avoid (unless you could dribble 3 times)
- Punishes the killer for doing their job
- Best strategy is to save time by ignoring the obsession all trial
Mettle of Man:
- Gives a free health state
- Creates distace from the killer
- Almost impossible to avoid (unless you M2 all game as Billy/Huntress)
- Punishes the killer for doing their job
- By strategy is to save time by ignoring the obsession all trial
Hell at least you could slug DS to save time. You can slug this guy once and the next time you try he'll just tank the hit when injured.
Then we have the fact that you had to select a pretty common perk (Enduring) to lessen the punishment of DS. With MoM you need to select a much lesser used perk (STBFL) AND you need to work up a number of tokens before it becomes effective.
Awful game design.
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75% recovery speed increase, not 75% reduction.
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Well still it's 75%
STBFL even at 8 tokens you'd still lose 2 on the first hit and 2 on the second meaning your best counter to MoM would only be 20%.
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@Nickenzie "If the killer is taking a hook over a mori then you aren't making a good choice as the killer. About the no heal part, the survivor is basically broken for the remainder of the trial. Therefore, if no survivor heals then you only need one hit so, in other words, chases are 100% faster than normal. Not bad in my opinion."
If all the gens are done, a good killer goes for the hook. That's a bait that has the potential to bring you more kills. If the killer goes for the mori, meanwhile everyone else will escape.
And that a lot of people don't heal is the reality. They do it because it's more time-efficient. (And a surv who knows that the killer is using Rancor isn't going to heal since they would be one-hit anyway. ) Also, why heal when the match comes close to 5 gens being done and the killer might have a one-hit attack?
That aura thing is simply not a serious downside.
Off-topic: Please use the @ tag. Quotes don't give notifications.
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@orion what’s the difference between stbfl hand picking an obsession for you, and someone bringing mom, and getting picked by preselects one?
i guess what I’m asking is, does it change the way the game is in any way for stbfl from how it is now?
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75% reduction gives 0,75 seconds of stun. 75% recovery speed increase, which is what it is, gives 1,7 seconds of stun (i.e.: not even 50% reduction). There's an enormous difference, and everyone who plays this game would do well to learn the difference between speed and time.
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I don't get it, what's the point of this question?
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It’s a just a question, does it change how stbfl already works now?
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Some survivor obsession perks increase the probability that you become the obsession. That's all.
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@orion so if someone is running mom and is the chosen obsession and someone is running stbfl it changes nothing? Also the obsessions change now upon use so you can ultimately go for the guy using it if someone else has it and it is triggered right? Meaning you could still get your tokens right?
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Indeed, it changes nothing.
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@Orion but that means the killer would have to drop chases to avoid hitting their obsession if it triggered mid chase. Which could be game changing if using stbfl to try to combat mom. Soo I think my conclusion is they’re going to have to change stbfl with a buff or new conditions as killers would waste more time trying to combat mom than actually combating mom. Stbfl is going to need a buff/or new requirements to be useful especially if more than 1 person is carrying mom Bc it would be incredibly op so killers will need stbfl to be equally op, and it should be buffed at the same time of this perk realease , not before or after. Meaning released at the same time. Or what do you think? Bc I think that would be good middle ground.
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@Orion @The_Crusader @HeroLives @NoShinyPony Guys just stop arguing. Perk isn't out yet. You are all theory crafting. No one can say how this perk will affect the game.
@Peanits Would you mind just closing this thread for me? I'm sick of seeing +10 notifications in my inbox every hour. TY
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You can't just make a thread to describe everything you can about the perk, then try to shut it down to stifle discussion.
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Crusader is right, you started it !
And i mean, either this :
... is fake, and in that case suicidefox is right and it's useless to even talk about it.
Either it's a real picture, and with this, we have way enough informations to at least discuss about it, and his potential in-game.
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What he said ^^^ we’re trying to find some middle ground here. Bc I want survivors to have cool #########, but I also don’t want killers to be underpowered to it.
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@thesuicidefox isn't there a way to turn off notifications?
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New DS is still powerful, but it has counter play (don't tunnel, or just slug them)
Deliverance is powerful but it doesn't directtly affect the killer or waste their time in a chase.
This perk if unchanged has no counterplay at all and it's a chase extender. It's essentially a free instaheal. That's the problem, it looks unfair and unfun for one side. Perks like this shouldnt exist. Just like how perks such as Dying Light shouldnt exist for killer because it rewards play thats really unfun for the other side. (Thsnk god it got obliterated this patch).
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With that logic how do you feel about instadowns? That lessen a chase and remove a health state? Or are those fair? I mean we can remove instadowns and buff all insta down killers to be viable m1 killers. Soo I mean...sometimes the shoe is on the other foot
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Haunted Grounds - Has a 60 second timer. Survivors can evade it by playing stealthy (and often do so).
Make your choice - Same as above.
These 2 perks aren't that common because they aren't usually producing amazing results.
The equivalent of those 2 perks is new DS. It has a timer and the killer can avoid it by avoiding the survivors. It's exactly the same concept. All are fair.
Devour Hope - Often long gone before you even get the third hook.
Noed - ok this one is a bit BS.
This new perk cant be avoided or countered thats the issue. It's like if killers hit survivors 3 times then the next hit on a survivor is a guarenteed instadown. Theres wiuld be no timer to it thus making it unavoidable and that would be unfair.
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@The_Crusader You guys are just theory crafting 100% and arguing about something that will probably change before it comes out. You're not going to convince each other of anything. This is no longer a discussion, it's a dumpster fire.
@Peanits @Gay Myers (Luzi) @MandyTalk Please close this thread. I regret making it.
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No, leave the thread open. Then if the perk comes out unchanged we can bump this.
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Are you gonna ignore all my posts ?
Just reposting this, so atleast peoples reading will for sure get it :
"And i mean, either this :
... is fake, and in that case suicidefox is right and it's useless to even talk about it.
Either it's a real picture, and with this, we have way enough informations to at least discuss about it, and his potential in-game."
It's totally legit give our opinions now, because we ALL know here that if it goes into live version as it is, it will stay as it is for years
You know these devs, don't pretend to be ignorant, you're there since way enough time for me to be sure of it.
Or maybe are you lobbying for this ######### being implemented as it is.
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Not theory crafting, we all know how the Obsession mechanic works.
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@The_Crusader okay those are just the perks, what about the killers with power abilities to add to it, and the add ons. Between perks, addons, and built in abilities I think that adds up to a significant amount of healthstates, especially when combined, especially on a good killer. Sooo killer can take away multiple health states in a match which can affect all 4 survivors. My point is if you limit one sides ability to grow, you’re also limiting your own, which will be nerf after nerf. Which will make for a really bland game. Also I am pro noed, Bc it can be countered and disabled. Hell the totem even glows if you missed it the first time before it activated. The only issue I even have despite all that^ is busted billy start of match slugging and even that will be able to be countered with flip flop, unbreakable, no mither if you have it equipped. I’d rather they put this in , and then give it a counter that can be equipped by any killer if it becomes a problem. Op meet op. Everyone has fun.
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But those are powers, not perks. It's apples to oranges.
Also survivors DO havs health state perks. Fair ones.
DS - Dying to injured. It was unfair, now it's fair because as explained before it has a 60 second timer in which to be used like the killer perks. It can be countered by avoiding the survivor.
Unbreakable - Dying to injured. Has counterplay by not leaving a survivor slugged.
Borrowed Time - Free health state. Avoided by not camping.
Adrenaline - .....Ok this one is a bit BS like NOED.
This new perk is a health state perk like the old DS in that it has no counter and punishes the killer for doing his job.
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Whether it’s a power, add on , or perk on either side that’s no reason to suck the fun out of the game. Think of how many survivors would play if you nerfed all that and left killers untouched. The answer is not many. You call it apples oranges but it’s all healthstates to me no matter how they are applied on either side.
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But the thing is killers should have more. Remember it's a 1 vs 4 game.
Survivors often want it where they can go 1-on-1 with the killer, but if all 4 survivors do that then killer becomes impossible.
People before used to bring DS, Unbreakable, Deliverance, Adrenaline and an instaheal. You can't hook them duento DS, cant slug them due to unbreakable, if you dribble them they use deliverance, and with adrenaline they would be instahealed. A solid survivor would loop all game and use these to counter the killer no matter what they did. Do that across 4 survivors and you have a problem.
Survivors should be winning by working well as a team together. Doing gens, holding out a decent amount in chases, healing each other etc distracting the killer. It shouldn't be the case where 1 survivor loops all game like it used to be with DS.
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