As a killer main who recently started to main survivor...
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Except NOED is a problem for the same reason Decisive was a problem. Forget counter play, let's talk about the nature of each perk.
Decisive strike rewarded Surviviors who failed at their job of keeping the killer looped/escaping when found with an effectively free escape, it was a "you messed up and now you get rewarded for it" perk.
NOED rewards killers who fail at their job of stopping the generators from getting done with a free haste and instakill. It's a "you messed up and now you get rewarded for it" perk.
And don't feed me that "just cleanse totems" line of crap. You know as well as I do that if it was that simple, NOED would be useless. But it isn't. NOED is even unique from other hex perks in that, unless literally every totem is broken, the killer gets to have it. Unlike perks like devour hope, third seal, ruin, haunted ground, thrill of the hunt, or huntresses lullaby, you cannot see that there is a NOED totem. You gamble every time you leave as much as 1 totem dull.
Cleansing dull totems should not be a concern that Surviviors should be having. Forget the counterplay aspect to it, because if we wanna get technical about it, old DS did have counterplay. There were ways you could prevent it/force them to miss It. But the complaint was that the counterplay wasted too much time for the killer.
Funny, when time is wasted for Surviviors, killer mains are ok with it and willing to let Surviviors suffer for actually doing their primarily objectives, but how dare killer mains struggle at all, right? Next thing you know, one Survivior is gonna spawn in the dying state bc the killer mains complained that the game was too frustrating
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By this logic is bamboozle a crutch too? The killer removed all mindgame from that T-wall or L-Wall or jungle-gym, you have to drop the pallet or abandon the loop. Nobody cries about Bamboozle but it's a WAY stronger perk and a way stronger crutch.
NOED Is no more a crutch than RUIN is one, both help you win the game, NOED helps you win endgame, RUIN helps you never reach endgame in the first place, the only difference is that the Genrush meta encourages NOED. I guarantee you nobody would run NOED if ppl used small game.
Also don't kid yourself, you're not becoming better by letting survivors run out in endgame if you're not playing a 1hit k.o killer.
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Totems are hard to find. :c It's not like they have specific tiles they spawn on EVERY game. Not like they can only spawn on those specific tiles, in specific easily searched spots. It's not like the killer often times run to the totem to check it early giving away it's position. It's not like there's a perk specifically designed to go, 'Hey, totem over here." Oh, I'm sorry, let me fix that last bit, "Hey, free 600-1000 points here. :D"
14s per totem, that's what? 70 seconds overall? Could actually be shot down to roughly 28s~ best case scenario and you all just happen to find totems after spawning. In a match that takes roughly 3-5 minutes? You can spare a minute to do totems. Assuming you're team isn't potatoes or screaming don't do totems do gens and cleanse a few themselves that's even less time.
You totally can't just leave the match since that tricky NOED totem is blocking the exit gate lever, and the gate. :c If only you could remember the spawns and check if it's lit or blow it up or something. NOED really is just so overpowered. I don't understand why it hasn't been nerfed a 4th time already, *sigh*
Why can't they make good, totally balanced perks like Adrenaline or Sprint Burst all the time? Now those are perks that have plenty of counterplay and require skill.
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IMO the lame part of NOED isn't even the one shot, it's the speed boost. It outright breaks 115 killers and just makes it that much easier to catch people.
I've said this before, but NOED should require 3/2/1 totems to activate. That helps newbies, since they don't have to destroy ALL the totems only 3 if it's tier 1, but keeps it mainly as is for tier 3. And no it wouldn't be like HG where it lights multiple totems, there would just need to be that many totems left on the map and it picks one. And they don't have all need to be dull, just 1 needs to be dull to apply the Hex. So if you run a Hex build with like Ruin, TOTH, HG, and NOED, and they leave a dull totem and HG then NOED will still proc. IMO that's fair and balanced for all parties.
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You probably complain that LF one-shots you in an open field too huh?
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(EU player enjoying memes before we get censored. :P )
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Why is cleansing totems more annoying than repairing gens?
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@PickCollins "The problem is that Surviviors are a group of 4, and naturally one individual Survivior will never beat a killer even if they are of equal skill. Bloodlust, every killer (sans Nurse) having a higher base move speed than Surviviors, killers with range abilities like Huntress, Plague, and Clown, all of these things make single handedly outwitting a killer Difficult to the point of damn near impossibility"
If you call that"problems" or find this too hard , i already know that you don't even played 100 hours.
No problem!
We all got to start at one point.
But maybe you shouldn't talk about balance when you find basic game mechanic like that "nearly impossible".
Or you're pushing an agenda, wouldn't surprise me either.
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I could point out the multitude of survivor perks that have 0 counterplay as well as killer perks. Whispers for example? Being able to instantly know "Ok there's a survivor in this area, now I'll use whispers to track them." Urban Evasion "Ok my crouch is super fast now"
It was never about counterplay. The hatred for decisive was because it rewarded survivors for bad play. That is 100% what NOED does right now. As a killer, your primary objective is to stop the generators from getting done (In the tutorial the Entity literally says "Don't let the light in" referring to the generators), you use hex totems to give survivors a secondary objective to make their primary objective take longer to finish, which is clear the generators.
If you want to stall them with Ruin, or Pig, or Freddy, or whoever you want. You do you, that's fine. But call a spade a spade, NOED is a crutch perk for bad players who don't know how to complete their primary objective, it should not be on the survivors list of chores to cleanse dull totems.
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You ignored literally everything I pointed out. So why am I inexperienced or somehow stupider than thou for pointing out that every killer sans the Nurse has a higher base move speed than survivors? Or how bloodlust was added bc killers apparently aren't allowed to get looped by smarter survivors? Or how ranged abilities like those of the Huntress, Plague, or Clown make the act of 1 survivor single handedly holding the killers attention while their friends go out and do gens and totems near impossible?
Every killer except for Freddy, Wraith, and Cannibal, have some kind of innate ability that helps them catch survivors. Nurse is obvious, Billy is obvious, Plague has VP and CP, Spirit has phase walk, Legion has FF, Clown has APT, Pig has lunge, Meyers has stalk which lets him get an insta down, doctor has shock therapy, Hag has blackened catalyst, trapper has traps, etc.
You treat me like I'm stupid, yet you completely ignore every point I make and act like none of it matters simply because you disagree with it. And the patronizing language that you're using is language I don't appreciate. I'm not a child and I don't appreciate being treated like one.
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I kind of agree. I think the haste is one of the biggest pieces of bullshit for NOED. "Oh you get an instadown and a speed boost" Suddenly every killer moves that much faster and instakills survivors. Good luck to anyone not near an exit gate when the last gen pops. And if the killer has blood warden, well...you thought you could win.
I'd rather NOED just be treated like a normal hex perk, and the haste removed entirely. You cleanse the assigned totem, and that's it. no NOED. It's bullshit that survivors have to worry about cleansing dull totems just so when they do their job, they aren't gambling with fate and potentially giving the killer a win s/he didn't deserve.
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Cleansing totems it not more annoying than repairing gens. The issue is that NOED is tied to dull totems and not live ones. If it was just a live totem, I'd have much less of an opposition to it. I don't think it's fair that survivors should have to worry about dull totems. And I think that if they do, they shouldn't have to worry about Bloodlust to compensate. If a killer with either higher base move speed than a survivor (Or blinks if ur the Nurse) cannot catch a survivor, I don't think they deserve a speed boost to get their job done.
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He treats you like that, because you do not understand the core concept of the game.
It's ASYMETRICAL. The single player (killer) is MEANT TO be powerful. I is MEANT TO win chases (higher speed). Because he is fighting 4 other people.
And that you call looping "smart", only shows where you are coming from.
Looping was unintended and is basically an exploit by definition.
By now it is sanctioned by the Devs, because they do not know how to technically handle it, but it is still an exploit. That's why bloodlust got added, as a band aid fix, because YES, you are NOT "allowed" to stall the chase for that long, because it was unintended.
DBD is known for bugs turning into features (killer reduced Fov or reduced size of beartraps for example).
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Survivors also get a hit sprint burst, multiple exhaust sprint perks, and multiple totally safe undmindgameable pallets, as well as stuns to gain distance. 115 isn't that fast. It's what .6 meters more?
Bloodlust wasn't created cuz lul good loopers. It was an extremely poor attempt to fix infinites instead of actually fixing the poorly designed, hyper safe maps. It was also nerfed 3 times already. BL is a ######### meme, it doesn't do anything on a safe loop/infinite. Sure as hell doesn't work on Balancedfield. So, that's one wrong already.
Trapper uh, yea he DEFINITELY catches people with his super obvious traps that on one has figured out spots for.
Wraith has his cloak, but he slows down so, kinda does, but not really?
Billy has saw assuming you have a map with good LOS otherwise you can't really use it for mobility.
Nurse can blink.
Miguel has longer lunge I guess? It doesn't go through pallets, or stop loops, or anything like that, but sure.
Hag has teleports, but that requires survivors to pop the traps so.
Doc uh, he zaps people? They scream? He's annoying?
Huntress assuming you have LOS, the axe doesn't go through someone, yea, she's decent.
LF, that's just laughable. Unless you're in a dead zone or open field get ready to be tenderized cuz he's not using that saw. 0 mobility in fact it hinders him.
Freddy doesn't have speed, but he has a lock-on, auto-aim sleep power. Plus arguably the best mind games.
Pig's charge is only good for unsafe loops, which you should've left already, and slows her down to even slower than survivors.
Clown's gas slows him down more than it does survivors?
Spirit is apparently not a chase killer according to the devs we spoke to, but let's face it that's what she is. Addonless she's eh, but she can work.
Legun can stab you a bunch of times, or moonwalk you, both waste a ######### ton of time when you could just m1 them, but it does help.
Plague's help her catch people in what way? Everything you do slows you. The survivors have total control over your power, and puking doesn't do anything once they're sick. It doesn't stop loops, prevent windows, prevent anything really and it gives them a free 5s heal. What a good catch-up power.
See, this is what happens when you actually play both sides, and every killer. You realize just how poorly designed the balance is.
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Boo hoo? God forbid you do anything outside of run through an ultra safe loop, cow shed, cow tree, killer shack, Haddonfield, 90% of the loops in the game and afk on a generator. I said it once, I'll say it again, BLOODLUST DOESN'T DO ANYTHING. It takes 45s to get to BL 3, which was nerfed. That's over half a generator for a single hit. Devs said chases should be over in 15s. That's why Evader pockets your points in 15s increments. 5 gen, x minutes long chases aren't meant to be a thing.
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@PickCollins You mean NOED should be a shiny totem from the start of the trial? That would make it useless.
Also, you can force a killer to lose their bloodlust. Blind them or force them to break a pallet. And don't forget that Bloodlust got nerfed. What we are currently dealing with as Bloodlust tier 3 is the old Bloodlust tier 2.
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If that's the case then why is it a viable strategy to tunnel a Survivior? If the Survivior manages to keep themselves from the killer for over 15 seconds, call me crazy but I don't think the killer ######### deserves a speed boost to catch up to them when borderline all of them already move faster than the Survivior, and the only one that doesn't has a super powerful gap closing ability that makes her the best killer in the game by miles.
But that isn't what happens. Killers tunnel Surviviors and perks like dying light encourage that strategy, meanwhile the anti tunnelling perk known as decisive strike was just nerfed hard enough that all it takes is enduring to get clearance to tunnel once again.
And if looping is unintended, as someone previously mentioned, then Barbeque and Chili, Whispers, and every other anti stealth perk in the game needs to be ######### removed. Surviviors hinge on pallets and Windows to escape killers when caught. Stealth is a weak mechanic, due to all the anti stealth perks that exist (and let's not even mention the locker nerf where you get aura blindness. Make those things even less reliable why don't you).
A coordinated group of Surviviors is 4 against 1, they should have an advantage. An uncoordinated one is basically a bunch of potatoes running around, that's why I play the loner game as a Survivior, bc often times helping them isn't worth the risk it brings me. But I've been in coordinated SWF groups before. I think in that sense, the killer should be able to carry more than 4 perks. I think that's unfair to the killer that they only get 4 vs effectively 16.
BUT. If looping is truly such a bad thing, then it should be deleted alongside every anti stealth perk in existence. If that's the game the devs want, that's what they should do. Instead perks that help Surviviors in the chase as well as perks that make them more prone to getting caught (object of obsession anyone?) Exist, so obviously looping is here to stay and should be something spoken about. If a Survivior can keep a killers attention for over 15 seconds, call me insane, crazy, stupid, or inexperienced all you like, but I know undeserved ######### when I see it and Bloodlust is definitely that.
But back to NOED. It's bullshit. Tie it to a burning totem and remove the haste, boom now it's balanced.
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I'm still wondering how you managed to associate "Inexperienced" with "Stupid" by reading my post.
Wasn't insultive in any way, sorry not sorry i guess ?
Also i already adressed your points, you just somehow took it as "insults".
For the "smarter survivor looping the killer"...
It got adressed 2 posts above, you should read it, it's quite well explained.
And to make you understand the silliness of the "Why killers walk faster ? Unfair !" argument:
Pick Nurse, she walk at the same speed as survivor.
Don't use your blink.
See how well it goes trying to catch up to someone running at the exact same speed.
See ?
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She actually walks slower than a Survivior so...
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They won't fix looping because they're afraid it might kill their game, fixed that for you. Everybody knows bloodlust is pointless in highrank games.
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"I typically end my games before all the gens are done anyway"
Wierd flex but ok.
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Wow, .6 meters more. That's really gonna help them when they get that free sprint burst from being hit. Also, what part of Bloodlust is a meme and doesn't actually do anything didn't come through the first time? This forums selective reading is insane. Did you really ask why it's a viable strat to tunnel a survivor? Cuz then it's not 2 people afk on a gen while you chase instead of 3? Is this a legit question, do you actually think it's bad to get someone out of the game fast?
WHO THE ######### RUNS DYING LIGHT? Not only is it one of the worst perks in the game, but everyone agrees it's a poorly designed/toxic one as well. This is the most cherrypicked argument I've ever seen. Dying Light isn't even scary, just do the gen, if he camps, do gens. If it goes off, do gens or get the hatch. OLD DECISIVE WAS ANTI-TUNNELING? WHAT? You're a living meme, my god. How was getting a free escape and super long stun anti-tunneling? I wanna see how your mental gymnastics came to that conclusion.
And if looping is unintended, as someone previously mentioned, then Barbeque and Chili, Whispers, and every other anti stealth perk in the game needs to be [BAD WORD] removed. Surviviors hinge on pallets and Windows to escape killers when caught. Stealth is a weak mechanic, due to all the anti stealth perks that exist (and let's not even mention the locker nerf where you get aura blindness. Make those things even less reliable why don't you).
God you're so painfully wrong I'm actually gonna have an aneurysm. I might have to go to the hospital after I reply cuz wow. Looping was never intended that's why there was so many double pallets. You can literally go watch old dev streams where they said looping was unintended. In fact the killers have wider hitboxes and can't hug walls like survivors can which is in a sense an exploit which is what people are talking about. 2 loops for you is 3 for the killer, 4-5 if they're 110.
BBQ AND CHILI IS SO EASY TO COUNTER STOP CRYING! Stand behind a gen, or hide nearby, boom you countered BBQ. That wasn't enough for you whiners though. Nope, here's a perk, Distortion to counter it and give you 10s of no scratches cuz that's totally fine. As well as lockers BLOCKING THE GOD DAMN AURA. You got a baseline mechanic to counter a killer perk, that most people just use to gain extra BP.
Whispers doesn't find a survivor for you, it's a hint at best. It says someone is here. Stealth isn't weak, you're just a bad player. I run No Mither cuz it's such a good stealth perk. Literally watch any killer play and they ######### about immersed survivors. You have clothing sets that make you bloody invisible. What anti-stealth perks are there compared to the slew of free stealth perks you guys have?
BBQ isn't cuz it has baseline counters and a perk to counter it. Whispers? Just hide, you have 3rd person camera ffs. Spies? Crouch near birds/Calm Spirit. Bloodhound is about the only true anti-stealth perk, run No Mither. You get Dance With Me, Quick and Quiet, Iron Will, Distortion, Lightweight, Calm Spirit, Spine Chill, Premonition, Urban Evasion, Alert, Diversion, Object Of Obsession(funny you say it's an aggro perk, it's both aggro and stealth if you're smart enough to know how to use it), and Poised. Should we remove all those too?
You wanna know why lockers got "nerfed"? Cuz survivors were abusing them cuz they now block killer aura reading. Funny how you forgot to mention that in your post. It was supposed to work a few patches ago, but it didn't until Plague patch. Guess what side abused this fact and ran Object Of Obsession for free sight on the killer all game?
I've had incredible solo games. My team knew how to do gens, run the killer, and it was a blast, but no one mentions those cuz that disrupts the SOLO IMPOSSIBLE narrative.
NOED is fine, if you get 4k'd by it you're a bad player and deserved to die.
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My bad, forgot how much it got changed.
Silly me, i wanted to give you a concrete example, and now you're gonna dismiss the whole argument by nitpicking this lil' mistake !
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Nurse is slower than survivors. I think she's 94%?
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Love how I offer a valid alternative to the current NOED and people jump on me and make all these assumptions. My only problem with LF right now is that his chainsaw is bugged and doesn't make noise. But that's a bug so.
This forum 🤦♂️
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I cleanse the hidden dull totems that I come across so if there is NOED it has high(er) chance to spawn in easily found spot.
To learn totems generic locations and spawn rules I suggest to use Small Game until you feel confident on your totem hunt skills.
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I love how you think NOED is a problem and when told multiple perks/counters you continue to ignore them cuz critical thinking is pretty hard when the gameplay you're used to is autopilot.
Chainsaw is silent, but you can't hear the loud ass heartbeat or use your camera to see the bright yellow ball waddling towards you?
This forum 🤦♂️
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Wow, a voice of reason. They do exist. Thank you. Also, playing killer shows you totem spawns cuz you can see them as you traverse. +If you run hexes you see their spawns.
Ah right, I knew she was slower just wasn't 100% on the %. I know Miguel T1 is also slower, but unless you get a REALLY good team you're not gonna stay starved that long.
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@thesuicidefox I like your idea. I don't really have a problem with how NOED works but I'm not a fan of the additional speed bonus. Maybe you should make your suggestion a thread. You would have at least one supporter. Maybe there are more. ☺️
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Not sure what point you're trying to make other than bloodlust is a meme and 110/115 isn't actually that much faster which I've said multiple times before in this thread.
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yeah its hard to cleanse all the totems right?
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Dude there isnt even skill checks while cleansing them it's way too EZ and there are only five totems if you get 2 and the rest of your team only do 1 each then NOED is non existent
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This one.
"See how well it goes trying to catch up to someone running at the exact same speed."
But it seems like he already left the thread, that surely mean that he got it, at least !
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Average survivors don’t cleanse totems unless someone else is nearby and they feel like they could grab those points before the other person. Every single trial I see people run past totems and ignore them.
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I said NOED is lame. That doesn't mean I think it's a problem. It's just lame and mostly because of the speed boost. I cleanse totems BTW, I don't have a problem doing that. I was giving my suggestion for how to make it less lame, by removing the speed boost.
Also are you seriously defending a bug? Like really? LOL. Sometimes you run around a corner and don't have LOS on the killer and because it's silent you don't know if he dropped it or let it rip. Sometimes that info matters.
You are so biased. God forbid we turn what is the most debated killer perk into something mildly less lame.
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And those are the people crying "wahhh!! Nerf NOED!!! That son of a [Bad Word] took my GG EZ away! I'm going straight to the forums to tell not queen I quit DBD until they nerf it!" ... I swear I just want to have a m1 as a survivor to smack those people who just run by it like it's nothing.
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I feel the same and I sometimes might or might not fast vault a window right next to them...
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It's not annoying anymore to me. It's just boring.
In every game there is Noed, ruin, bbq and sloppy. It's easy to adapt to counter those perks but to do it in nearly every game has made this game really fkn boring. Back in the days going into the new match was loading into the unknown. Nowdays it's just same old copy paste from the past 100 matches.
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RUIN gets broken in the first few seconds against survivors who know the spot so who cares?
running RUIN and NOED makes no sense.
Sloppy is needed because selfcare is still broken even after the nerfs, if selfcare wasn't this OP then killers wouldn't run Sloppy.
BBQ is just infinite good addons, nothing OP about it. Survivors keep their items/addons too.
You think seeing SC/Adrenaline on every survivor is less boring? At least balanced landing or DH require SOME finesse and planing, the rest of the survivor perks are either braindead or reward braindead plays.
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Adding onto this, hex totems for most maps spawn at predictable locations, if dull totems are cleansed but NOT all 5, then the NOED will spawn at a random place instead of where it should predictably spawn. If I cleanse dull totems, I'm only cleansing the ones where it will be inconvenient for me to try finding NOED. And not enough survivors know about this crap.
The only option other than Selectfully cleansing totems is being gud/lucky
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Killers pick NOED or camp because survivors dont cleanse or do hookrush.
As long as survivors reward killers for their decisions/strategies etc, they will use those.
And lol, killers goal is not to stall the generators, their goal is to kill ALL survivors, the generators are just a means to the cause. So if survivors get caught in the endgame by noed, its not because the killer failed, but because the survivor did fail at stealth.
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" those perks but to do it in nearly every game has made this game really fkn boring. "
mmh... let me think for a moment… perk diversity… like...
SC, SB, DS for over 2 years? Along a handful of runner ups filling the 4th slot?
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How many people should get caught by NoED? 1 just 1 the first unlucky sod that gets hit.
And that should be it, why?
BECAUSE YOU SHOULD GET OUT THE FREAKING DOOR.
I tell my mates to do it even if im the one that gets hit.
Most NoED whiners are people that run in for stupid unhooks with NoED still up.
Greedy survivors that believe all 4 should get out.
Why is NoED such a crutch? is it because the killer gets "OmG Ez cRuTCHer" no because survivors feed him stupid free kills.
"Omg totems take time"
And? it takes barely any time at all to do 5 gens and the totem spawns are laughably obvious even without small game.
Except for Billy and Nurse most of the other killers don't even have viable map pressure.
Remove NoED for all i care but don't sit there and say it's because it's unfair when the power is always in the survivors hands to remove it.
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I can't relate because I change my perks every once in a while. Also I wasn't using DS since well over a year.
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Guys...
Why are you all feeding this ?
I mean... really ?
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DS did have a counter, it's called dribbling. And NOED has a counter too, it's called Small Game. Yet why should I have to waste a perk slot for getting 5 totems? And if the totems are done now I have a perk that literally can do nothing! It makes no sense of why I should use it. NOED was fine before the last time it was buffed. IDK why the devs thought it was a good idea to give all the tiers an exposed effect. It's also a massive middle finger when it's a green/tier 1 NOED too.
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DS literally had no counter, if the survivor didn't want to get dribbled he'd run into a map corner.
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NOED gives you 4% not 6%
I had to @NathanExplosion
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