Survivor gameplay has become Frustrating
pls fix the issues we are facing when playing survivor
1- cant get good amount of BP as a survivor like we do when we play killer
2- every other map someone rage quits
3- you went too far with buffing killers to the point that every single match is now an atrocity. a freaking warzone with killers like legion plague specially … everyone is injured before we even do a single gen ! like how far will you go with helping killers out ? Imagine a perk that blocks gens for 120 seconds then also throw up on the unblocked gens with the add on to make your ######### last 60 seconds on it.. like DEVS ! pls !! wth are we doing ? why so much punishment to survivors??
survivors sitting in corners self caring when sloppy is on …
pls make this game fun for survivor as well ...
it's so hard for me to accept the fact that if I want some good amount of BP and fun, I gotta play killer.
I never play swf I'm always in purple- red ranks …
I played 17 games today as survivor, I escaped 3... I BAD WORD escaped three times.
and most of the matches ended either all 4 dead or someone gets the hatch and 3 dead .
I have 3574 hours in this game.
PS: Comment whatever you want but be respectful. I am stating a personal opinion if you wanna discuss it I'll be more than happy
Comments
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The first 2 are a legit issue for me, 3rd is meh, a lot depends on how you and your team play.
I will sit and self care in the corner because for some reason there always seems to be that one person who can't hit a normal skill check.
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Get ready for a stormshit for the point n3.
I think the same, killer side is broken, nurse 5 blinks,spirit no phase sound, hatchet oneshot, instasaw, legion franx mix tape, mori etc.
The devs keep nerfing survivor instead of killer. Thats why everyone disconnect
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I don't care what ppl say as long as they are respectful otherwise I can just report childish comments.
and yes its not fun to play survivor atm.
wait in lobbies for so long then game crashes rinse repeat then someone rage quit with 5 gens up .. ughhh god its just not fun anymore I will take a break from this game
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Killer is "hard" when the player's ego is bruised cuz they can't catch one Survivor. And instead of attacking weaker Survivors, they focus on that one and let 2 gens pop.
What bothers me the most is that Killer get to play the ENTIRE MATCH. Regardless if they are "GeNrUsHeD," they got to play the 6-9 minute round.
Killers can literally end this game for a Survivor in 2 minutes especially if there is a grifer/farming teammate and the Killer is camping.
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@ point 3:
When someone runs broken build simply give him free kill. I enjoy doing it and if more people would follow they would simply get bored.
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This survivor circlejerk is amusing to watch. Carry on.
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Sounds like a lot of Gitting Gud needs to happen tbh
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IMHO killer is harder, point 1 & 2 I agree with. I wish we would do double bp every other week.
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I agree with points 1 and 2, survivors need more bloodpoints, killers get like 2x the bloodpoints survivors do. Also, something NEEDS to be done about DCs.
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🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
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Holding m1 to do gens so hard. Waiting 2 mins so hard
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-1
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People need to play both roles at a profficient level to gain better understanding of balance issues. And *then*, maybe, start threads about balance issues. Failing to do that, only guarantees outlandish requests for buffs or nerfs and endless whining.
Survivor mains crying about this and that: I challenge you to pick any killer and take it to R1 for 3 months straight. R5 in the new system if you want, let's have some slack. Start with the terrorizing overpowered unfair Nurse. See if it's easy as you all say, to destroy everyone. Then take Wraith, Piggy, whoever you want. Take them to the red ranks and keep them there for 3 seasons.
Killer mains crying about this and that: I challenge you to pick any survivor (they're skins, anyway) and do the same. But go *solo*. Everyone knows you can get carried all the way to the reds with SWF.
After this, come back and read your own old threads.
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Killers were LITERALLY not buffed at all so ######### is this thread. Thanatophobia was nerfed, the new perks are mostly useful on midtier killers like freddy, wraith, myers, pig and esp trapper and hag for setup time, nobody in his right mind complains about those.
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Finally someone gets it.
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let's not forget the frozen loading screen when loading in a match. the times i had to close dbd through task manager because of this has been too frequent after the graphics update. I think this is a major problem too.
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Nobody seems to understand this. This forum is mainly one big killer circlejerk, and Reddit is (mostly) a survivor circlejerk. I don't know how either side expects any true balancing to get done when they're both sitting in a corner crying about this and that and having a pity party.
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@Ttwylerr @Condorloco_26 I play both roles. Been rank 1 on killer and survivor multiple times and for months in a row. I find killer easier than solo survivor. Just because you believe your opinion doesn't mean everyone else has an invalid opinion.
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How would I suppose to do that? By hooking those that got hit thru vault, pallets or when I clearly missed but somehow they still got hit? I don't think I would ever reach R1 because this ######### happens way too often and I refuse to respect such kills.
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BuT kIlLeR sUpPoSeD tO bE tHe PoWeR rOlE
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If what you say is true, and I'll believe it is, then I'm eager to listen or read *your* opinions on balance issues, since you've already put the hours in.
I'm not saying everyone else has an invalid opinion. I'm literally saying your opinion has more weight when it is an informed one. An opinion based on solid foundations, as opposed to just knee-jerk reactions to a streak of bad matches.
And yes, if someone with 10 hrs poured into the game is going to talk about balance, he certainly has the right to do so, but everyone else has also the right to dismiss uninformed opinions as such.
BTW, I agree with you to a certain point. Solo survivor is harder than Killer facing solos, yes.
But I would add, Killer is way harder facing efficient SWF's.
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Vaults, really? I'll tell you this, I read it in another thread but really don't remember who posted it:
Walk through your nearest open window with a hammer, or knife. Place yourself at the window frame and extend your arm in front of you. Now tell me if hitting through vaults is, or isn't fair. They're not vaulting a portal to another dimension, after all.
The pallet test would be way more dangerous to recreate, but the concept is the same. Add latency.
And even then, yes, hook them. Still, the challenge won't end right there.
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@Condorloco_26 If I may, it does not matter. I started as survivor, and due to some of the reasons listed by the OP (BP, DC's, constant camp/tunnel), I switched to killer. Been playing primarily killer for six months or longer, more than I ever played survivor. Any time I try to talk about the shortfalls/issues of survivors, the killer mains lose their mind on this forum. Killers on the forum don't care about making the game better, just making their games easier.
The problem has long been that this is a casual game, that wants to act like a competitive game. This cannot be a competitive game on the gaming circuit due to its core system. Since the rank in this game has no impact at all, just personal enjoyment for a few, that makes this more a casual game than anything else. When players jump into a casual game and face try-hard killers/survivors, it is frustrating.
Survivors, when organized and skilled, can run a map. Those groups are less than 1% of the survivor player-base. Killers who camp and tunnel can completely destroy the experience of others, they make up roughly 40% of all matches. That is why camping and tunneling are talked about so much. Add in the crap bp survivors get and DC's and it is getting worse and worse for them. I literally moan when my wife used to want to play because that meant I had to play survivor. Luckily, she quit the game after this past week of match making and constant tunneling with high ping killers from across the world.
In my opinion, tunneling/camping can't really be fixed. They can add in some defenses for survivors to get away from it, but it is sometimes an actual legit strategy, but most often used from the start of the game. The best way to mitigate the frustration is to figure out how to get more bp to survivors, especially those who are tunneled and camped out of the beginning of a match.
Unless you are an absolute tool, there should be no match where your items+addons+offering were worth more than the bp you spent in the match. Too often, that is the case for survivors because bp rewards are a joke. I can run 4-5 matches as killer in an hour and make somewhere between 300k-500k depending on offerings. That same hour might get me 20k to 200k as a survivor, depending on team members, killer type/skill, and whether I was lucky enough to get camped/tunneled more than once in that time. That is at the core of the problem.
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Vaults and Pallets aren't suppose to be safe-spots that you never get hit on.
It's not like survs have enough braindead un-mindgameable spots on the maps anyways.
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Survivors are unlikely to get more bp than the killer unless there is a serious mismatch of skill or the killer is an afk bot (in which case it's still a mismatch of skill since afk has no skill).
Survivors can get more bp per minute than killers if the survivors focus on it.
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@Warlock_2020 BP economy and the general grind in this game is absolutely insane. I agree with your points about survivor BP gain being a joke, especially when compared to the expenditure of each match if you go in with a full loadout. But at least survivors can keep their stuff, if they actually survive, as opposed to killers who lose it every match. And even then, I choose to go into matches with only offerings when I play surv, because yes there's a high chance I'm getting killed. And I use white wards when I really want to keep my stuff.
Theoretically, survivors can join matches immediately after getting killed, and I guess this assumption played a huge role when balancing BP economy. The truth is, they will stare at their screens for 10 - 20 minutes before joining another lobby. So yes, BP gain should be adjusted under current conditions.
The thing is, all those killers who were pushed into playing the role just for the BP gain, will just turn back to playing survivor, knowing they will get a lot more points now. This will affect lobby times even more.
Which takes us to the core of the issue: *there aren't enough players willing to play killer*. When I play killer (I'm on PS4), I get full lobbies in less than 2 minutes. 30 seconds are enough 80% of the time. When playing survivor, I have a book next to me, and sometimes I even forget I was playing DBD while reading through whole chapters.
Why does this happen? There's a huge balance issue affecting the game.
Allow me to non-quickly express my thoughts:
The low ranks, as you stated and I agree completely, are dominated by killers, even the weak ones. Butchering almost everyone every single time. I know it because I was once a beginner, and then I stopped playing surv for 4 or 5 months approx, in which I got deranked all the way back to R17 and experienced the pain again. Potatoing, hard camping, guys trying to act like their favorite streamer, etc, etc. I only play solo, BTW.
The high ranks are dominated by the SWF tryhards, which BTW are way more than 1%, I know it because I don't dodge lobbies and face them constantly. I even know many of their names by now. It's really hard to keep up with them if you're not playing Billy (PS4, again) with his best add-ons. People whine about dodging, about Billy, and about SWF. What a mess.
Perks that are good for beginners and terribly OP for experienced players, mechanics that are good for beginners but completely exploitable for veterans, etc.
Then you have the deranking and smurfing scum on both sides, even encouraged by their streaming masterminds.
Plus, you have a truckload of bugs, DC's (again, encouraged or at least not punished harshly enough) and on top of it, toxicity.
We're left with the current state of the game.
What would I propose? Balance around ranking brackets. Consider hours logged in at each role to make a beginner-only friendly environment. The low ranks would feature easy skill checks, more info displayed in the HUD, more forgiving mechanics for survivors, such as longer hook states and shorter healing. Extra BPs (not some meaningless emblem) for killers that apply pressure and spread out punishment instead of camping. A good tutorial! Players won't climb out of this environment through pips, but through player account level (which is, more or less, time poured into the game = matches played).
Mid ranks would feature vanilla DBD. Now you pip and rank up normally.
High ranks would feature additional mandatory objectives (not optional or secondary), harder skill checks (QTE for example), 1 extra perk slot for Killers and solo Survivors. *Perhaps* a limited perk pool. HIDING the names of the players, so there's no chance of bypassing the SWF/solo filters.
LOCK the rankings once you reach tresholds. That way there's never going to be a full repertory tier III perk Billy terrorizing people at R15 just because he dc'ed a lot, or a 2000 hrs Claudette 4Squad teabagging Trappers there. The only way of drastically deranking would be not logging in for months straight.
And, you get the idea. It almost sounds as a new game to me, very hard to accomplish. But there. That's my opinion on balance. If you read it, thanks a lot, I won't put you through it ever again.
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I do agree with you that a well coordinated SWF can wreck a killer, though I see few coordinated SWFs. A great killer can also wreck a coordinated SWF, watch Zubat, Fungoose, or Sverkeren for some examples.
One of the biggest problems in balancing the game is how much more information an SWF group gets vs a solo group. So to me, the first step is lessening the gap between solo and SWF. There have been lots of ideas posted on the forums on how to do this. I'll list a few things I like that would help.
1)Make bond and kindred base kit for survivors.
2)Add a beacon survivors could drop for pointing out important finds, hex totems to be specific that you cant cleanse because the killer is on you. There is a map addon that allows you to do this so it is definitely possible.
3)Add a totem counter that shows survivors how many are left. This would be if NOED stays in the game. I'll talk about that a little later.
Once you close the solo to SWF gap, then you can better evaluate the true balance between killer and survivor and make adjustments as needed. There will definitely need to be some map tile changes. Here a just a few balance changes I feel need to be fixed now.
Hitboxes need some work. I have had my share of "how did that hit" on both survivor and killer even in the open field. I don't agree with the hits through a dropped pallet. Especially with the enduring/spirit fury combo. If I hit them and have spirit fury available, I am back up immediately and they are down seconds later.
Some of them through a window seem off. I see you responded earlier to a post stating this can happen in real life. I don't disagree that we should be able to hit if they are standing against the window on the opposite side, but sometimes I will get downed a full second after I vaulted and am away from the window. Some of this is lag and some of this is tweaks needed to the hitboxes. Also, my opinion would be to stay away from the real world arguments because this is a game.
I would get rid of any instadown perk or addon in the game, NOED, Devour Hope, Make Your Choice, Insta hatchet and bottles, etc. On the flip side, I would also get rid of inta heals and adrenaline. If NOED stays, then the totem counter is needed for solos. It is easy to say, just cleanse the totems. Even if every solo survivor in the match had that in mind, we would all be running around the map for 3 minutes checking all of the totem spawn spots because we don't know if someone else cleansed it or not.
There are many more things but this is getting to be a long post so the last thing I'll add is we as individuals need to think about how we play affects the other side. As survivor, it is not fun to be camped and tunneled because it doesn't let me play the game, and this happens in well over 50% of my matches. I get that people feel it is a strategy, but if we continue to only worry about if we have fun or not, people are going to continue to D/C and continue to leave the game. This is why a lot of killers experience long queue times when BHVR have it set up to match to rank. There are not enough survivors to killers. I'm sure you can admit, you don't like going against 3 survivors because one quit and I'm sure you don't like long queue times. They are quitting because the game is not fun for them. They are D/Cing if they are the first found because they know there is a high chance they will be camped and/or tunneled and their solo survivors will all be crouched behind a tree, not doing gens, or cleansing totems or anything that will punish the killer for their play strategy.
Edit: I just saw your above post. I play on PC and XBox. Killer queues on those platforms are longer for me so that is how I based my opinions. I will say that killer on a controller is harder than on PC. I'm not sure how to compensate for that, but might be what attracts so many to play survivor on Playstation.
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@Red_Beard I guess we were both typing our DbD Phd papers at the same time, but I've read yours now. Definitely I encourage you to read mine above too, because perhaps we can take some real good points about both posts.
I agree with your opinion on BS hits, which sound more like a problem of lag and latency and hopefully could get fixed with dedicated servers soon.
Hitboxes are a big issue, both for hits and for the current looping-as-meta. Definitely if hitboxes are going to be tinkered with, maps will have to feature different layouts that allow stealth and loss of sight as more viable strategies for survs, and killers that know to run angles and develop prediction skills would be rewarded too. I would welcome that kind of changes since I'm really sick of watching everyone stupid Tom & Jerrying around. I don't engage in long chases ever, but I'd welcome the changes anyway.
Extra info for solos - yes. I also suggested an extra perk slot for solos and killers when there's any SWF coming into play, and mandatory additional objectives.
About all the instastuff and cruth perks, well I guess they can be reviewed after there's a solid foundation of balance in place.
Hopefully someone in the dev team or mods could read your suggestions. I think they're way more constructive than the usual "this sucks, that's trash, us vs them"
Have a nice evening.
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4.8k hours and you're still bad?
man just give up at that point, that's kinda sad
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I came here with a sarcastic remark originally, but I will admit BP gains as survivor are a joke. And the DCs from every game are also annoying for killers, that's a lot less BP and one less source of emblem points for us as well.
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@Condorloco_26 I think you are absolutely right about balancing by rank and have said so in the past. Unfortunately, many in thos forum did not like that idea. Heck, limit certain perks to certain ranks. That gives some benefit to ranking up. If I can't run NOED or Adrenaline until rank 9, that is good reason to want to get there. Or just limit the tier that can be used at each rank.
I'd say to add a stamina system for long chases, but that could increase tunneling.
Either way, more discussions like this are needed and not the usual us vs them.
Oh, and I've grown to like killer more than survivor. Won't switch back, but might play more if they upped BP. I am a glutton for punishment though, I main Trapper. I love the strategic side of placing traps where they are not expected.
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@Warlock_2020 Yeah I like Trapper a lot too. Props to you on not getting discouraged playing him.
And discussions like this one will hopefully get more attention some day. It's good to know there are players interested in the balance and health of the whole game.
Have a nice evening too.
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Survivor is frustrating because teammates are ######### Sandbagging pieces of ######### that get away with it on top of bad killers face camping
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I dont think survivors have enough progress bars. They need to spend more time standing still holding m1.
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It's weeks like these that remind me how nice of a killer I am. Holy #########, I thought I was being mean sometimes... I got nothin' on some of these guys.
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Besides the bp topic, you are describing only bad play of survivors. That's just how it is when you play solo surv. Sometimes you get good mates, sometimes your mates selfcare against Legion with Sloppy Butcher.
If the survs play bad, it's not the devs' fault. If playing with random teammates frustrates you too much, play SWF.
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you may or may not have started the game a month ago.. Ive been playing since beta.. and go read the patch notes from 1st to last and tell me if they did not buff the killers at all times .
now go spend some time in the game before you comment with childish expressions like " ######### is this thread "
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And with all the buffs it's still impossible to 4k for killers against decent survivors, wow. Buffs are worthless if the game is still broken.
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its really not that often they you verse a team of good survivors .. as killer I 90 percent of the time verse easy survivors
trust me guys half of ppl in rank 1 don't even know how to loop a jungle gym they throw the pallet quickly
this game should stop buffing killers. period
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@harry14141414 A game has to be balanced around its top players, not around bad or mediocre or relatively good players. That's not exclusive to DbD.
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1- what If I don't have friends on steam or online in general
2- if more than 75 % of survivors self care against legions with sloppy that means devs SHOULD look at the problem . not just say like you said.. ooooh its ur fault ...not the devs
3- thanks for agreeing with the bp issue which is frustraiting
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Then make yourself strong for ingame voice comms, I dont understand why solo survivors should be handicapped either.
Unfortunately the majority of the communtiy wants the SWF-advantage to stay and dont want the game to be balanced around voice comms.
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You lost all credibility in your thread when I read your 3rd point..
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@harry14141414 It's not a problem to find people willing to play with you. If you meet a random good player in-game, then just ask them if they want to play together from time to time. I've met several people this way. (Alternatively, you can ask here in the forum for fellow players.)
And if 75% of the survs selfcare against Legion, then these 75% have to learn how to play better. Yes, it's the survs' own fault if they play bad. Sometimes it's that simple. That's why I am suggesting SWF for you if random mates frustrate you too much.
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I play Survivor mostly and outside of Legion just being an unfun killer, your point #3 is absolutely wrong.
#1 - 100% agree. With BBQ & Chili, there is no reason to play survivor for blood points when top-peak gameplay nets maybe 25K BP and a half-good killer round with BBQ nets 70k+ BPs.
The discrepancy is just ridiculous.
#2 - 100% agree as well. There needs to be legitimate punishments in both BP loss & temp bans for quitters (preferably both methods). It's getting really annoying having a team mate salty quit in the first minute because they got caught.
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The game isn't meant to be balanced at 4 kills and 0 escapes. Also, players like Zubat, Fungoose, Sverkeren, even Scott Jund will prove you wrong about cant get a 4k against SWF. Is if tough to 4k against good players? Yes. Should it be? Yes.
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IMagine feeling this way for 2 years...
On the frustrating part... but you main killer.
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just because some one has another opinion doesn't mean they lose credibility.
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Killing randoms is something that literally everybody can do, SWF does not automatically mean they will play optimal. Survivors who play optimal cannot be beat unless you play billy/nurse and that's just a fact.
btw it's funny that you mention scottjund because he got schooled by a SWF that is in his level. Zubat got schooled by Baefu's group when he played plague.
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4xswf toptier survivors who play optimal and make no mistakes SHOULD win.
If you take toptier material, combine them, optimize them and play a match against random r1 killers, they SHOULD win.
One the other hand, take a toptier killerplayer, give him a killer of his choice and let him play matches against random r1 survivors, the killer SHOULD win.
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