New DS and MOM is fine
Never had a issue with both of them, DS only one person can use it at a time so it doesn't really matter.
MOM requires a survivor to get hit 3 times, which if you are playing the one-hit kill killers this is not an issue, there are also Make Your choice, Hex Devour Hope and other perks can can counter this perk. It can also be countered by Mori
After it activates basically the Killer will know whether you have it, so they can prioritise by hunting other survivors instead or go and tunnel
Speaking this as a Killer main. Survivors needs incentive to keep playing survivors, it's about time survivors gets buff
I have been asking for ages for survivors to finally get a good perk so ppl stop using the same meta. its about time this happen
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Agreed. Killers are just crying because the game is now slightly harder for them. Killers have been consistently getting great perks and survivors have only received crap. Now that we finally get a good perk all they can do is cry and complain because it won't be an ez win for them anymore.
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Here is my proof as Killer main that I only play Killer, I hate playing Survivor (Used to on launch but never again after I lost my savefile. People are not adapting to the new meta
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Pretty sure killers are crying because they literally just got rid of a perk with no counterplay, and then added another perk that doesn’t have counterplay
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We already told you in your other thread why it isn't fine. You also aren't the spokesperson for every other Killer player out there. You supposedly having no problem doesn't make the Perk fine.
P.S. People still don't give a damn about you being a supposed Killer main.
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Four survivors running mettle of man in it's current state sounds like it could get a little insane.
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i know others have had a big issue with DS, for me it's a no biggie, i never used it anyway, once or twice to try the perk, i know it was more a nightmare as a killer....the stun, but with the new one i don't tunnel so it doesn't affect me....i just wish we went back to that new que time....but i can understand to others DS making an issue
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I don't main anyone atm, I used to main Nurse but it was really boring after playing her every game due to people pellet looping and wasting too much time. I play random killers nowadays and gets blocked by MLGA for occasionally playing Legion/ Nurse
Your idea of DS does sounds nice, it would promote less camping
It's a SWF problem, not the perk
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Grabs require precise timing and require the survivor to make a huge oopsie that's not a reliable counterplay at all.
Exposed, Only MYC is reliable on this, DH can be removed before it even hits 3 stacks, NoED can be removed and Rancor only works on 1 target and does not work with Plague, Legion, or Huntress reliably.
M2, Currently MoM affects Hatchets and Leatherface saw.
Aura revealed to the killer if they also have DS means the killer has to slug or risk the DS.
The problem is neither of these perks on their own, the problem comes with running them together.
MoM also is used AFTER BT.
You can say "No tunnel/camp" all you want but even the devs admit sometimes that is the correct play to make.
But don't worry you will all be back when you back every killer into running NoED and Ruin in the same build and 90% of the killers you run into are Nurses or Billys.
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So you mean 90% of the games played in purple and red ranks? 90% of my games are against Nurses or Billy, all running Ruin. All m1 killers running NOED. You also act like killers don't slug. They do. A lot. Maybe you should play survivor fam.
But the fact remains. Stop tunneling. End of discussion really. Killer mains taunted the ######### out of survivors with "git gud" when responding to complaints about Tunneling and Camping.
2nd Chance perks are in fact a legit strat. Just like tunneling and camping. Didn't say it wasn't a cheap tactic, but its a tactic nonetheless.
I believe the same Dev who said tunneling and camping is "sometimes the right thing to do" also said go play Civilization.
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"Go play survivor fam" i spend most of my time on survivor and i have the VODS to prove it.
Running perks are not a strat rofl, strats are the way in which you play.
Looping is a strat, mindgaming is a strat.
Perks like MoM that give value for doing NOTHING are wrong.
Not every person playing Killer wants to be cornholed into playing Nurses and Billys they do this because of the state of second chance perks and SWF.
My main is Trapper with no NoED before you ask.
They can remove NoED if they also remove MoM.
new DS is fine on it's own and not stacked with MoM no problems with new DS at all.
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where does this delusion of "MoM is an anti tunnel perk"
IT WILL ACTIVATE REGARDLESS OF IF YOU ARE TUNNELING OR NOT
in fact it hurts those who do not tunnel more, since the perk will be active on more survivors late game where each second matters even more
you complain that people only play nurse and billy, when MoM's existence FORCES PEOPLE TO PLAY THOSE KILLERS TO STAND A CHANCE
be honest that you are just a scummy survivor main who wants to bully killers with your new broken perk
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Playing specific killers is not coubterplay. If you are not playing those specific killers.
Also that is a joke right? Grabs? That was for comedic effect or were you being serious?
now “dont tunnel the obsession” is also a joke for 2 reasons
1) MoM actually counters not tunneling.
2) mettle of man does not require you being the obsession to activate
ti elaborate on 1:
if you are hit 2 times, you are probably hooked. That’s what happens in a general game is dbd. So that means that when you are unhooked, you can heal yourself for free without penalty, and you have 3 health states. Or, you get tunneled and the perk doesn’t do anything until you are on your last hook, at which point injured is the same as being at full health for the purposes of any subsequent chase.
Now it’s only a ridiculously powerful when the killer chooses not to tunnel.
The fact that ash’s aren’t currently running ds is because most Ash do not have the bloodpoints reservations to get all the perks they want. And the fact that you KNOW Ash has it is the only way you are mentally preparing yourself for the punishment
i have not had any issues with the perk,. I am also not stupid enough to believe that means that the perk is fine, because I know how it can be used.
and to elaborate on 2:
very soon survivors that are not Ash will be using mettle of man. And when they do, the perk will be a problem. When we start seeing 4 man teams of mettle, ds, adrenaline, X.... there is no counter to it. You either get punished for tunneling, or you get punished for not tunneling.
COUNTER-PLAY OPTION:
play a killer who can circumvent MoM every time
Play a killer who can instant down while he is uninjured (which is just normal gameplay) or hope that Ash heals while they are injured and the perk is active (which there is literally no point in doing)
hit them 3 times, down them on the 3rd hit... and then just accept that when they get off the hook the next time they have an instant heal, because it is better than 3 health states
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thats cute.
anyway, I didn’t actually see a single counter to any of my points. We call what you just did an “Ad Hominem”. Google is your friend if you don’t know what that is.
so let me address your points, so that I am not a hypocrite:
”mettle of man increases your chances of becoming the obsession. Rancor helps here”
DS also increases the chances of every survivor to become the obsession.
Also rancor increases the chances of every survivor becoming the obsession.
basically the only time mettle of man won’t be in the game... is if there is no obsession while you are running no obsession perks.
It could be one guy. It could be 4 guys. You really don’t know, so you either don’t play around it or play around it with every survivor. There is no middle ground.
Simply saying you know who has it because it is Ash isn’t the same as actually knowing who has it and being able to play around it.
“It’s very easy for the nurse to get grabs”
spirit too. What’s exactly your point? It’s not like the nurse plays for grabs. The nurse is undisputedly the strongest killer in the game. You could revert the game back to version patch 1.0 and keep her the same as she is now and she would still dominate (she would be the only killer that even has a chance but still)
Saying the nurse can do something isn’t really an argument. It is just stating a fact about how powerful the nurse is
“90% if high tank games are nurse and billy”
thats not how balance works. When the perk hard counters most killers and will be used in high frequency, you shut down the option for other killers to even enter the metagame. Do you really enjoy the meta of nurse + billy + spirit/micheal thrown in once and a while? Do you think that it is healthy for the game? Shutting killers out farther and farther?
“Mom has a downside, it keeps your aura visible to the killer”
actually I address this in my post you very clearly didn’t read.
MOM keeps your aura visible to the killer when it is active and when you heal. to full health. Not at all times like you are suggesting it does. Which means if you get hooked at 2 stacks (likely) and heal to full health your aura is not revealed.
Which is why tunneling counters it... because you can turn it on before they can heal forcing them to not heal and not gain 3 health states.
Tldr; saying there is something wrong with the perk doesn’t mean I am bad at the game. Nor does it mean I currently have a problem with the perk. But seriously you need to look at the perk objectively and consider all the situations in which it can and will be used, as opposed to assuming you will be playing nurse every game and getting gen grabs every game. Or playing billy every game. It’s just dumb.
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I'm not suprised, playing solo surv is terrible at this moment.
I love this meme <3
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Please, show me where I said that nurse and billy are not common at rank 1. I’d like to see that
second, you are taking what I said out of context. YOU claim that you can play around mettle of man because of the obsession. Which is ridiculous, especially when you follow it up with there will be an obsession every game.
of course there will. THAT’S MY POINT
you cannot play around mettle of man because you do not know who has it, how many people have it, or if it is even in the game.
Please, go to school and learn about logical reasoning and I guess how to read too?
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thank you for proving to me that you're a scummy survivor main desperately defending your new OP perk
if you ever complain about billy and nurse being the only killers in your game you will have egg on your face
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I just cant stand the fact the MoM is the new DS, makes the rework a goddamn joke.
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-Grabs
Yeah no, nobody is stupid enough to slow vault next to the killer, and even if you somehow manage to grab the survivor the perk will still be active
-Rancor
MoM will still activate even if you arent the obsession
-S.T.B.F.L
Not that it helps much, i mean, you lose 4/3/2 token when you hit your obsession so you would technically be contradicting yourself
-Exposed
MoM IGNORES damage, have you at least used the perk?
-m2
Only if you are leatherface, billy or legion, otherwise you are #########
-Billy
Just dont complain about Billy being a braindead overpowered killer.
-Leatherface
Most people consider him to be absolute garbage for newbie, he is only good at downing survivors with his chainsaw on close quarters and most maps dont offer that possibility
-Nurse
Provides no counters against MoM whatsoever, she will still get the cooldown if she hits a survivor with MoM
-Your aura is revealed to the killer
Wow, such an incredible risk/reward perk, totally makes you re-consider picking it up.
the aura revealing doesnt even last that much, and wont compensate the time lost in a chase.
-dont tunnel the obsession
again, MoM will activate even if you arent the obsession, so this is not a valid argument
besides, not tunneling the obsession disables the perk?
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You guys defending the perk are aware that its currently not working against blink hits because of a bug, right?
This means the devs are planning to or actively fixing that...
This means that Blink hit, lethal blink, surprise attacks, phantasm hits, dream chaser, grudge hits (spirit), willmprobably all count for MoM tokens.
Basically all abilities thast rely on M1 attacks to deal damage will be affected.
The only things im unsure about are Ambush, Hatchets and Feral Frenzy.
So the only killers capable of reliably NOT triggering MoM would be the chainsaw bros and plague if survivors are dumb. So much for counterplay.
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I think the fact that people think that the aura reading part of MoM will ever come up is a complete joke.
It only comes up if you heal while the perk has 3 stacks... so you just don’t heal.
And if the perk has 2 or less stacks, you can heal for free.
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Yeah we know, but you see on these forum posts. Since it was bugged, yet a ridiculous amount of killer mains said they quit the game, stopped playing, etc. When it was bugged and not fixed. Meaning a majority of killers can in fact deal with MOM, and they act like its the end of the world
Which means these people fail to adapt, and proceed to blame it on everything else
Legion have no issues with MOM, since its a one hit kill but with a timer
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if you think killers are OP then you should legitimately just uninstall the game
what a joke
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Queue time as Rank 1 as Killer is insanely long, reason being no survivors willing to play at Rank 1. Hence Survivors needs more power, more power - less queue time for us Killers
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strange, i could have sworn i was getting basically instant killer queues while my survivor queues were hitting close to 10 minutes
i must just be crazy!
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Whats ur rank now and region?
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rank 1 Australia
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Don't strengthen only the killer.
solo Survivor is dead.
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I dont care what a traitor of killer main you are.
Mettle of Man allows survivors to dodge a successful attack on them without any consequences.
A borrowed time effect would be fine and still strong, but what it is right now is not fine.
DS is okay, but still annoying.
Killers in general deserve a buff to be able to stop gen rushing etc.
This game is a mess, when I think about it...
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Wow, what a meanie.
The problem with grabs is that they are very situational specially on higher ranks, where they are very hard to get unless you are playing an stealthy build with spirit or wraith, and most people dont even bother with that
Did you at least read what i wrote? Rancor and STBFL may be helpful, but MoM will still be a problem because it can still activate even if you arent the obsession making this argument useless
Yes, i understood that billy can 1 hit survs with his chainsaw, the problem is that survivors like you complain all the time about him being a braindead killer that requieres no skill
Yes, i understood that leatherface can 1 hit survs with his chainsaw, but he is not even a viable killer at higher ranks and most people wont bother playing him
i honestly didnt know that about the nurse, still, depending on especific killer to counter a perk is dumb, mah boi freddy and wraith have suffered a lot about this
How many times will a survivor just not use MoM after it activates? Again, the aura revealed wont return back the seconds lost in a chase
BUT YOU CAN STILL USE MoM EVEN IF YOU ARENT THE OBSESSION!!!
Checking my profile just to make fun of me? what a pathetic little #########! i am rank 13 on survivor and rank 6 killer, its been hard to pip on survivors because killers are disconnecting all the hecking time
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Dude, grow up. You automatically assume that dissenting opinions come from the perspective of a lack of skill, idiocy, or some other detriment; you just belittle the one you're arguing with rather than trying to convince them and argue your position. You think the person you're arguing against is the problem. Examples: "You've proven the fact that you're a low rank killer main, and that's ends everything, since arguing with kids is always a waste of time," and "grabs aren't that hard. if you cannot get them. i won't blame you for sucking." Assuming they're a "low-rank killer main kid" or that not landing grabs - a mechanic that is 100% avoidable in all situations by survivors - somehow makes them "suck" literally adds nothing to the discussion or your argument, except making you out to be a pompous, presumptuous prick with an out-of-control ego. I suggest you have discussions like an adult unless you want to fit the labels you apply to others. In other words, don't be a hypocrite, mate.
Hot take: MoM is not *directly* counterable. It is avoidable by killers only under the most extreme and/or particular circumstances (specific add-ons, specific killers, etc.). To avoid MoM, the killer must kill someone in under two hits. In a vast, vast majority of games and situations, that is unreasonable and will not happen; thus, it is a guaranteed extra health state, essentially. It is not as potent as pre-nerf DS, admittedly, but it *is* similar in design. Sure, it's weaker than pre-nerf DS, but it's badly designed in all of the same ways: there's no counter-play / no way to play around it as killer (actually even more so than pre-nerf DS; DS at least had dribbling, but even that was situational), there's no way to know how many survivors in a game have it (you know either nobody has it or at least one has it, but it could be one, two, three, or all four), and it buys guaranteed time for the survivor team (additively for each survivor that has it). When considering how it relates to other similar perks, Borrowed Time can be avoided by waiting the timer or just being away from the unhook and post-nerf / current DS can be avoided by not tunneling. I'm not going to assume I know for sure how best to fix the perk, but it's very poorly designed. It's objectively strong, and IMO a BiS-tier perk atm.
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I suggest ignoring Heroiq at this point. He tries to gain the moral high ground, but we all know he's just a salty Survivor main desperate to keep his new abusive toy of MoM.
We all know that grabs are rare and very depending on the situation.
We all know that constantly using ultra rare stuff is not sustainable on Killer and hence not a valid option.
We all know that most insta-down Perks are situational and unreliable.
There's no point in trying to argue with someone like him, you won't ever change his opinion, it's just a waste of time.
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Sometimes i play relaxedly, then my target is to hook everyone at least once, for a full bonus to Chile. That is, I do not tunnel at all. But the survivors of this perk now bother me, bodyblocking, when i try to catch up next target. Several times i did not get full bonus because of them. And of course, they have a full set of toxicity - teabag, flashlight clicking, etc. It is even worse than DS, it could have been avoided by dribbling, it was not instantly in four (in a later edition) and required a skillcheck.
Now i play with them with all possible methods. Mori, camp, tunnel, etc. Just like old times. I make them suffer for impudence. Also in my plans learn to play for Billy. Thus, it is not an antitunnel perk, but on the contrary, like DS, it motivates the killers to play as hard and dirty as possible in the eyes of the survs. So, now we will wait for a new portion of crying from survs for it.
Unfortunately, apparently perk is made for making money, on sale dlc. I bought all the previous dlc, including Legion, but now i will not buy anyone else, until they focus on the balance and good network conection.
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Honestly, I don't think the old Desicive Strike was overpowered either. I much prefer the new DS and if the old DS was paired with Mettle... yikes.
People may ask "Why does everyone think it's overpowered then?" to which I say: most people are bad at games design. They see something they don't like and become the boy who cried "Overpowered" because they don't understand the intricacies of games design.
The reason killers don't like these perks isn't because of their strength, it's because they're annoying and poor games design. It's frustrating to win a chase and then feel like your reward was snatched from you. Mettle isn't overpowered. It's just annoying.
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Nurse/Billy/camp/tunnel/sluggame isn't overpowered. It's just annoying.
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Um, no, MoM does not gain stacks with Huntress hatchets or Leatherface's chainsaw. Rancor can be used on multiple survivors if they have DS. Your point about the aura doesn't make sense because it doesn't indicate at all if the survivor has DS, besides DS can only be used if you tunneled someone down after an unhook so the two don't correlate. NOED is a guaranteed perk in a match if all the gens are done (very rarely do survivors do every totem) but MoM is not a guaranteed perk due to a number of different variables that other people have mentioned.
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I agree with your premise that most people are bad at game design, but unfortunately you also simultaneously said that old DS wasn’t a problem.
this tells me that you do not understand exactly what a killer has to do to win.
now, in terms of raw power, mom is not better or even close to the same as old
ds. This is true. The big problem with old ds, that mom soft fixes, is that it would go off before the survivors first hook, which means that the killer would lose all of the potential pressure they were supposed to gain from hooking the survivor (which is exactly why you slugged for the same reason)
mettle of man, however, does do the same thing. But it does so after the second or possibly even 3rd hook bar a few killers.
Mettle still stifles killers momentum, it is still simply an instant heal as a perk with no downsides... except that against specific killers or perks it might not activate.
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The meta of NOED has begin, NOED right out counters MOM
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Freddy is weak, LeatherFace is weak, Pig and doctor are weak. This is because they are all m1 killers whose power doesn't help them in a chase, Ask any top survivor or killer streamer on twitch, (JenDenise, Zubat, Tru3, ScottJund, EdgarAlanBro, AL_Boyo, Kittychipz) they will tell you the same. MoM doesn't have much counter-play for these killers (outside of using toxic perks like NOED or devour hope which in turn can be countered). Other killers that are strong, (Nurse, Billy, huntress, spirit) with the exception of spirit mostly ignore MoM perk. Thats is why I believe it is poorly designed because it punishes the already weak killers.
I hope you are just trolling.
@yeet I mean I main killer too and Nurse is Super OP and Spirit is VERY strong in good hands. However I agree with you that most killers are weak whereas some are situationaly strong (Hag, Huntress, Billy, Plague). But the idea that Freddy or LF is OP is laughable.
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People need to understand MOM requires 3 hits, which means in a nutshell most of the time the perk can only activate once during a Trial.
6 hits = The survivor is dead already, and it required the survivor being on the hook once in order to activate it.
Also if the survivor gets grabbed, hit by a power then the perk is completely useless
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The irony though, because even after the umpteenth time of telling you, you still haven't understood that 1) grabs are bugged and way too situational with their conditions to be an acceptable "counter" to MoM, 2) MoM is bugged and actually supposed to work with all power hits and 3) just as with old DS and old BT, once per Trial is more than enough to get a free win if the Perk is used mid to end-game (which is usually the case with the condition of 3 hits).
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They fixed it now, it's still balanced, MOM is in a good spot now
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Your aura being revealed is not counter play do you even know what that word means.
It's a consequence in a very easily negotiable one at that if your aura being revealed was a debilitating weakness Freddy would be a top tier killer.
Only a handful of Killers can actually rely on the M2 to avoid it so if you don't have a special m2 or instadown you're screwed that is not counterplay. For example if you play pig you cannot work around that.
Just so you know what's counted as a special M2 that's hatchets chainsaws and puke. So that is four Killers you can play to avoid the Perk excellent counterplay
Frenzy doesn't activated but you're going to have to hit the survivor four times which is a waste and with the new change it doesn't work counter it anymore.
You also bring up not to tunnel The Obsession when MoM reactivate after 3 Hits please try to kill a survivor without hitting them 4 times.
I mean there are ways to do it but all of them involve being very scummy to the survivors.
Aka camping tunneling and Moris
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@Someissues How did you manage to get pallet looped as the nurse?
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Devs should not listen to whiny killers main, MOM is fine as is
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Why MoM is fine prof plz
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Devs never listen to killers dud, only survivors.
Just look at Legion and all the complaints.
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I don't like the new MoM. I'm a survivor main that uses WGLF. It'll be more difficult to unhook, this will be a war looking for the stacks.
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is this a troll thread? i was only reading for like 5 seconds and already had enough.
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No wonder you're not having issues at Rank 7 lol. Wait til you get to Rank 1 - 4. The onIy perks I see shared between 4 survivors are MoM DS BT, Adrenaline, Dead Hard and Self Care.
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I always been to Rank 1, it's not that much of an issue
Ghost face is the problem, MOM isn't, it can only be used once anyway
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