Keep Crying Survivor Mains...
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"What are some examples of a "toxic Killer"? And I would like some solid, specific ones please."
Pig can teabag, and a killer hitting you on the hook is also pretty toxic. Let's not forget the Killer letting you bleed out when a hook is no less than two meters away. Is that Toxic enough for you?
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"Pallet vaccum" Ah yes, what allowed Survivors to land easy pallet slams? Nah, that was removed for a reason.
Exhaustion perks are what kept the chase going for unfair amounts of time. Sprint Burst, Dead Hard, it was insane. If you looped a Survivor long enough, they could regain their Dead Hard, allowing for a eternal chase.
Legion is getting destroyed, THAT is the issue. Some of these nerfs are too far and destroy the original purpose.
"No skill killer"
Ah yes, another Survivor main confirmed who doesn't want to use basic counterplay against Legion.
Run in a straight line. Scatter. Run loops, Frenzy can be very easy to outlast if a Legion decides to switch targets.
Legion is designed to spread damage across Survivors extremely quickly. It's why they run so fast, it's why they have Killer Instinct, it's why their power refreshes upon a successful Deep Wound. These nerfs WILL destroy that purpose even further. It was already weak enough as it is, Legion could never get to other targets in time. They are also designed to struggle to secure downs as well, their slow movement speed proves this.
Each and every single Killer in the game can be looped easily, minus Nurse or Hunty. Spirit can be looped as well, if you use counterplay. Legion is the weakest Killer in the game who has a power that has one sole purpose, while other Killers have multiple purposes or sole purposes that are more effective, and Legion's power is not even that CONSISTENT. People also refuse to adapt too. Moonwalking, blade exploit and Frank's are the only valid complaints concerning Legion.
"Survivors have to rely on knowing when to and when not to vault certain windows, loop a pallet, throw it down, how to use certain T walls and when to leave unsafe areas and not waste pallets."
So... what every Survivor should do, then? Killers have to decide exactly that during a chase. As well as keep track of gens and other Survivors. Don't forget hexes!
This was a stupid argument that shouldn't have been posted.
" If you took the best killer in dbd, playing nurse, with the best perks, and took the best 4 survivors with meta perks, I can confirm that the killer will win. Killers are not underpowered."
Mmm... you sure about that with your extremely specific cherrypicked example? Meta perks are things like Self-Care, Mettle of Man, Dead Hard... best Survivors would also know how to loop effectively; and counter the Nurse. DS could also be used to stop tunneling.
BBQC also has been nerfed by lockers, NOED can be destroyed, the "best Survivors" would know how to predict and destroy all dull totems. Ruin? The best Survivors would either find it very quickly or know how to genrush THROUGH it. Because they could land Great Skill Checks consistently. Nurse's Calling? Possibly effective with Nurse, yes... but it has a limited meter range. Stand outside it and you're okay.
The good Survivors would have a high chance of winning for sure. Nurse can stop looping, sure, but the "best Survivors" would always know how to vault safely or predict the Nurse's movements. As well as how to drop chase versus the Nurse.
They WOULD win.
And a single, highly unlikely scenario does not mean Killers are a whole are underpowered. In fact, you've proven the opposite. Good job, toxic Survivor main! 🤣
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SWF is something in the game for people that want to enjoy Dead by Daylight with their friends. If a killer makes wrong moves or doesn't play right then he will be ran for 5 gens. If every survivor knows how to properly loop and use windows, T walls etc. Then they should be rewarded by being able to escape. If a killer is good enough and plays right then he can secure at least 2 kills or more if skilled enough. Killers can be toxic, facecamping is a toxic thing to do and so is tunneling. A killer shaking his head at you and nodding is being toxic, if its not, then teabagging isn't toxic. Survivors have received countless nerfs to looping and perks and killers have received crutches to help them catch survivors. Back before 1.5, if you could get a 4k, you were a god tier killer. Now if you get a 4k I personally don't think its that hard since most "toxic" AKA good survivors left the game. Killers complained about being run around constantly and blinded and destroyed but now that survivors play more stealth and gen rush killers still complain. Nurse, Billy, Huntress, and Spirit are all S tier killers and if your goal is to win every game and get a 4k then play those. If you want to play a killer you love but can't get a 4k all the time, too bad. There are meta perks and there are meta killers. This game as I have said before, gives no element of horror and therefore, should not be treated like it does. This game will never be scary and it never has. This is a game of each role outplaying each other, if you get outplayed by the killer, you lose. If you get outplayed by a survivor, you lose. Its a simple concept. Stop asking for killers to get more crutches and nerfing SWF. The only thing that Marth88 proved was that 4 skilled survivors can do gens and all survive by playing to their full potential. Nothing more.
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So... 3 examples. One that is Killer specific.
And how many Pigs teabag instead of placing a trap?
A Killer hitting you on the hook actually conveys salt and hatred towards the hooked Survivor. SPECIFICALLY the hooked Survivor.
The bleed out till death is a good example though. But I've already brought that one up as part of a toxic Knock Out build.
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@bubbascal tbh not many pig teabags. But then again most people will decide that something is toxic if they don't like it, or can't go against it. But that's just how the video game world is sadly. :(
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You're right.
However, teabagging is a intentional show of disrespect. It's bragging. Laughing in the killer's inability to stop you. When you're at the Exit Gate, it's basically poor sportsmanship, teabagging before leaving. You're basically laughing at the killer for losing and rubbing it in. This I CAN confirm. And it's real in Dead by Daylight. VERY real.
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Removed. Replied to the wrong person.
Post edited by Kilmeran on0 -
@Poweas Oh, #########. Sorry about that. I just got back from an 11-hour school field trip to D.C. with my 9-year-old (we're in Baltimore County, Maryland, and a 70-minute bus ride home took 3 hours due to traffic). I'm wiped, and thought it was you.
I don't typically reply to the other poster.
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Lmao probably the only good thing about this entire thread and probably the only actually true thing aswell (sadly)
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holy ######### guys...
they are nerfing one killer. the killer that A: no one likes to play and B: is already the 2nd worst in the game.
like, before EVERYONE said that legion is extremely unfun to play against, so they take the frustrating part of his power away. dont act like you didnt expect a huge nerf when they rework him to be more fun to play against. the only way for legion to gain power and be fun to play against is by literally deleting his power and replace it with a different one.
TL;DR: they nerfed the 2nd weakest killer everyone agreed on needed a rework and like 20 people played.
i am not defending the BT buff btw. thats just dumb.
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Winner winner chicken dinner.
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Freddy situation too much?
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Freddy was something else.
first off, Freddy got nerfed immediately after his release. Legion is already out for a long time now, so there was plenty of time for the survivors to think of counter stragegies and stuff.
secondly in this case even the killer community agreed on the fact that legion was unfun and in the need of a rework.
and last but not least: they announced the changes this time. Freddy's rework just dropped and that was it. this time, you can give them feedback.
i just dont think they deserve as much hate as they are currently getting.
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As you can see, there is no difference between this and the Freddy situation.
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you mean besides the points i just mentioned?
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We all know that devs will ignore our opinions in PTB. So what's the point of even making this?
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i do remember them buffing clown and spirit after the PTB due to the playerbase's feedback.
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And the rest?
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save the best for last in the form we know it today has been taken 1:1 from reddit
spirit fury is a community designed perk, same goes for haunted grounds.
thanatophobia was something a lot of players wanted, but since legion exists we didnt get it, otherwise it would have been even more unfun to play against them, as they apply damage too fast.
we got killer buffs after the community feedback like i mentioned earlier
the devs do listen for the community. if that was not the case, the game would have died like 1 year ago.
stop acting like they would always ignore us! WE asked for a rework and we got it. again: in order for legion to become a good killer, they would eigther need to completely rework his power (which i doubt they'll do) or make him even less fun to go up against.
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Yeah, and what about my fun to play as this killers. It's only about SWF fun over and over.
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so you are saying legion is fun to play?
having a chase that you can literally not lose, but also takes ages to win is fun?
seriously: if you want to have fun, you dont pick legion. legion is the killer that cheeses himself through the ranks by gianing great chaser and malicious emblem qualities as well as decent gatekeeper without having to do much.
also, yes SWF is too strong, but thats something the devs wont be able to fix without eigther buffing solo survivors on their level and then start reworking the killers or by completely removing it, which they will not do.
solo survivor is actually a challenge now, believe it or not.
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ppl think a killer is "unfun" and "op" and just start to cry about it and dc? hm, i feel like im getting a dejavu... wait, maybe this happened already?
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Than we should both killers and solo survivors. Legion will be a Freddy v2. Wait for it.
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Than we should buff both killers and solo survivors. Legion will be a Freddy v2. Wait for it.
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So making them weaker (which seemed impossible) is somehow an improvement.
Incorrect, friend.
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Use of the term “tryhard” to describe someone who wins makes your opinion moot.
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I play both killer and survivor. Legion was a bad design. Whether this change to them makes them more balanced is yet to be seen but please stop with the survivor “main” vs killer “main” mentality because it’s become a bigger detriment to this game and community than anything the game’s devs put out
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"Well, that's just your opinion, isn't it?"
Of course it is. Anyone with a brain would have the same opinion.
"So, you admit the game is survivor sided? Despite the fact you posted a Pepe meme to make fun of people thinking that the game is survivor sided...?"
Because the game isn't survivor sided. Do you realize how many nerfs survivors have gotten ever since Curtain Call came out? Any GOOD killer can destroy a SWF (except a Depip squad type of SWF, which pretty much no one is going to encounter) as killers have wayyy more powerful stuff, including add-ons, perks. You also have Nurse and Billy, who have ridiculous addons. Moris also exist too. I am can literally go over on how Killers way more powerful stuff than Survivors do.
"Wrong, he was making a statement. And he was demonstrating how SWF is OP, he probably didn't want to bully killers."
Did you just read what I said? Nobody said SWF was balanced. There isn't a statement at all. He literally ruined killers days for no reason. Read my above reply again about SWF.
"You really don't think Survivors are the power role, huh?"
No, they aren't LMAO. If you honestly do get looped for 5 gens despite all the powerful stuff you have as killer, there is really something wrong (and it isn't the game). Almost 85% of loops in the game can easily be countered by ANY killer. Other loops are ones that the pallet MUST be broken (Shack for example), except when facing a Nurse.
Self-Care is garbage. Dead Hard is easily counterable. Mettle Of Man is a great anti-tunneling perk, you are right. I like running it for that exact reason.
OMEGALUL you actually just listed T-walls under a "good" loop. T-walls are HORRIBLE and are so EASILY countered. They are literally the easiest jungle gym to moonwalk (something you probably don't know how to do) in the entire game. Cow Tree is not near as good as it used to be. Groaning Storehouse is a problem, I agree, but you can just ignore a survivor looping it and go find another.
Good killers will obviously get looped by competent survivors, this happens everyday. But if you are going to use a ridiculous loadout against those survivors, the chases are probably gonna end pretty quickly.
"Camping is being a unskilled tryhard, not toxic. Toxic is teabagging and showing disrespect. You could argue toxic perk builds designed to specifically anger Survivors like Tier III Knock Out and blah blah blah."
Camping is considered being an "unskilled tryhard," but is still considered toxic nonetheless. It is most definitely toxic when doing it as soon as you catch your first survivor. Slugging everyone and making them all bleedout is toxic. Pig can teabag. Killer hitting another on survivor on hook over and over again is toxic. Literally a broken build can be toxic. Like I don't know what you consider being "toxic" on the survivor side, but the only I can think of is tbagging and running broken windows.
I am a killer main with 3.8k hours in the game. I know a lot of killer game sense and all the problems each side has and know what is balanced and what isn't in the game. It honestly just astounds me when killers are still whining about them getting nerfed despite all the buffs they have gotten. Legion was a huge problem at the moment (coming from both survivor and especially killer mains) he was released. He needed a rework BADLY, but they instead gave him an update instead, which honestly isn't even that bad. However, some changes they are making to Legion don't make sense (no bloodpools, full bar to use Frenzy, slower frenzy, and can't see bleedout timer). Most of the changes in my opinion are pretty solid.
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@Mister_xD I played legion is a way they seem to want him to be with the rework. I had fun but hated being boosted up the ranks. That part was why I stopped maining him. I’m hoping the rework will make it so he doesn’t get boosted up.
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I'm so glad the so-called killer community on this forum is actually a small sample size of the over all numbers because man are you all whiney. I've switched to 70/30 killer roughly 5 months ago and have never looked back.
Killers are not week.
SWF is not every match.
Very few SWFs are even that good.
Legion was broken, and they are trying to fix it. Test it before you cry.
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There are streamers who are killer mains who make it a point to stream themselves doing this. FYI. If its not enough being mocked in a game, you get to enjoy it on twitch -.-
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You know what? Go on play against them if you really feel that they're weak.
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@Ihatelife I think he is saying he plays killer more.
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I think everyone spewing salt from both sides have a distorted view of what winning actually is in this game. Pipping is winning. Survivors dont need to escape to win, and killers don't need to 4K to win. and especially before the adjusted pip conditions yes, it was brutally easy to win. And I say this as a solo queue survivor main that plays both sides.
Also as a survivor main, I do agree survivors are more toxic, even towards other survivors. Get hook farmed in front of killer by guy not running BT. Person with bond/empathy leading killer to other survivors in hopes the killer will leave them alone. Hatch camping instead of helping push that last gen to completion or going for a safe rescue. I even get salty PSN messages from other survivors telling me I didn't do enough even if I'm at the top of the score board, sometimes above the killer. The entitlement and toxicity is definitely real. When I do toxic stuff, we all occasionally do it even if not on purpose, I at least message the killer an apology.
SWF is definitely OP too. On the occasions where I do join a friend we call out EVERYTHING:
"Spawned at killer shack. No gen, but the basement is here."
"I hear/see ------, so --------- is the killer"
"I'm on the gen in the Chapel. There is/isn't ruin."
"Killer just chased me past a Hex totem next to ---------. I'll try to lead him away."
"Pretty sure he has -----perk because I just experienced -----------"
"Don't bother coming to unhook me, I have Deliverance."
"Found the hatch in the corn field by the pig tree."
"Killer is Face camping me. Just get gens done while I hang here."
"Gate on the wall by the killer shack is open, I'll meet you half way and body block"
The game was never originally designed around this and its the main thing that unbalances it, in my opinion. Let Marth recreate his experiment but with no comms. The communication they had is what depipped all those killers. Everyone knew which gens they were all on, everyone knew exactly when the killer broke off chase, and everyone knew what each other was doing at all times. The simple act of communicating replaces the need for several perks.
Back on the topic at hand, Legion, I never thought he was too bad to go against, and I never had an issue playing him. He can be HEAVILY out maneuvered in tight quarters or in the corn field when he's frenzying. I do some of the dumbest jukes and they often work because the lack of scratch marks. If you're in his terror radius and he goes Killer Instinct, just drop what you're doing and bail out. I wont heal myself against Legion unless I need to go for a save, but I'll heal others and let them heal me. You just gotta play a little stealthier, pay a little more attention, and use a little unorthodox mind game.
My biggest issue with the change is the change to Deep Wounds. Specifically the fact that your terror radius keeps it from decreasing. There's no longer any pressure to mend it anymore unless you get BT against spooky Myers, invisible wraith, or crouching pig. Plus the fact that legion's terror radius doubles in size when he Frenzies. I understand his power is to spread out damage and apply pressure, but this seems more like it'll just make's mending even less stressful. I myself already go for hook rescues and totem breaking while bleeding out, so what is this really going to do for extra pressure? It feels very counter productive to me.
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Me streamer, me no like thing, remove thing
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nice bait OP. hitboxes are garbage and the current killer perks give u everything in the world to win the game at half the effort. windows are bugged as ######### and u pretty much get a free hit every vault. the only killer "nerf" in ages has been legion so if anything youre just a closet franks user who wants free 4ks at 1% of the effort of any other killer. l2p kid
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@bubbascal Here is what I like to do as a killer.. not sure if this is really toxic or not.
I chase you around and tunnel the crap out of you cause I want my dam BBQ token... So the survivor loops me around a gym.. I hit them down and start nodding at them.. I smack the object I caught them on a few times as a joke. I like doing that for about 20 seconds or so... just for fun.
Then I pick them up and take them over to a unfinished gen.. maybe it was the one they worked on.. I throw the survivor on the hook near by... then walk over to the gen and begin looking back and forth at the survivor on the hook while nodding my head.... After about 10 seconds or so of doing that.. I break the gen.
Then I walk back up to that survivor on the hook and stare at them like I'm gonna facecamp.. After about another 10 or so seconds of standing still i nod my head up and down a few times and walk backwards away from them... looking at the whites of their eyes.
Meanwhile all the gens get done and people start escaping.. but I'm laughing my ass of wondering what that survivor must be thinking.
Is that toxic?.. Not sure.. I like doing that with any killer.
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Just saying but...Those legion changes are nothing but what survivors asked for...the only literal one from killers is the base movements speed...
Just makes it kind of strange too the ear when someone says we don't listen too one side over the other but the changes are near entirely only from one side : (
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Why are so salty? What was even the point of this post?
Both killers and survivors whine and cry but not everyone does.
There are chill people on these forums, ignore the “crybabies”???
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@AlexAnarchy both sides wanted him changed because people from both sides hated playing against him.
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@Poweas Been there myself. Mine was in Overwatch, though. I was playing Paladins for a little while, and they have a guy in there named Viktor who is similar to Soldier 76 in Overwatch. When you M2 with Viktor, he scopes in. So, I jump back into Overwatch and play Soldier 76 while tired. His M2 is rockets on a cooldown.
Let's just say that it took almost three matches before I finally stopped wasting rockets trying to scope in. Was not my best night. Especially when you have well over 100 hours on Soldier 76.
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But then why are all the changes pretty much just what survivors wanted? Should'nt it be a bit half and half so both sides can be happy...Or should we just assume again that survivors fun is all that matters?
Killers posted plenty of good change ideas for legion as well but all we got was 115% movement speed and the killer is just gonna be the same boring ass m1 killer now...
This is simply nothing more than making it even more of the US VS THEM mentality cuz it's clearly not true as only one side got changes they genuinely wanted and survivors got nearly all ther desired changes.
Heck, I would'nt be surprised if legion ends up not even able to vault pallets anymore during feral frenzy after ptb since tht's just about the only change that did not get in from survivors.
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What about my fun to play solo.
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@Kilmeran XD. It's just human though, you can't expect to be perfect all the time. One time, when I was back in high school, swearing was banned, and I accidentally swore infront of a teacher after he gave a lecture about behaving, he got mad and said he told me NOT to do things like that, but I was genuinely lost and said 'Sir you never told be not to swear'.
He never did, so I was right, but I was also dumb, because he did say to behave XD.
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@Poweas I never behaved in high school. I was also a bit of a weird combination in that I had a near 4.0 GPA, and yet would get into fights left and right because I loved to fight in my youth. It was the competitive, physical challenge of me versus them (later, as I matured, I found better avenues for that like sports and martial arts).
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