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Penalties For Killers Who Camp Hooks
Comments
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sorry to tell you the truth but the only really bad killers in dbd are farming killers or killers who let survivors live, if a killer got a 4k from camping, that;s not on the killer who is bad.
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wait, how does the killer camping you and you only, ruin the game for everyone else?...that statement does not make any sense...
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Just give survivors a speed buff to gens when a killer is clearly camping a hook.
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@CallMeSpidey You need more than two full minutes, not to mention the time it took the killer to find, down, and hook the survivor? Generators take 80 seconds, max.
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Hex: Ruin.
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Takes 14 seconds to cleanse. The time it takes to find is smaller than the time it takes for the killer to find, down, and hook a survivor.
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?? You think a killer downs a survivor in 14 seconds? When he is afk, maybe ...
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Awesome ideas! I love all your suggestions but they won't fix the problem.
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You complain about my post and others like it but yet you offer suggestions to combat camping?
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No, he said 14 seconds just cleansing.
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First, it ruins the match for any survivor who gets camped. Second, it ruins the match for the others because there's one less person and less time to do gens. If another survivor comes to unhook me while being camped then that's more time lost on gens. It's not impossible for three players to escape or even two but the odds decrease. I've heard all the arguments saying that if one survivor is camped then the others go to town on the gens ultimately leaving the camped player to die. You don't get camped in every match and there's always the next round but I'm tired of running across players who camp. Not to mention losing items because of it. Items cost bloodpoints so essentially I lose bloodpoints for a killer camping.
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What is with hook swarming Survivor's? Don't swarming the hook and I don't camp!
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@ACESMONEY Then there is another idea: a hooked survivor gets bp overtime when the killer is nearby.
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Then survivors will switch off trying to get themselves camped as now they gain a financial benefit. Not only do you mess with the game's currency output in an unhealthy way you also start to incentivize bad habits. You can not make a solution that is just simply a reward for survivors. The game's history has shown that it always leads to abuse rather than fixing the original issue.
No punitive or incentive measures are going to end camping. Only by the base gameplay changing can camping be truly tackled.
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Mess with the game's currency output in an unhealthy way? Why? Because survivors that got camped and doesen't receive anything will start getting something, especially when you make it a balanced bp/minute gain?
The thing with switching off to get themselfes camped... maybe it will be abused, but if a total amount of bp for getting camped during the whole stage would be, lets say, 3k?
It wont really hurt economic but it will also reward camped survivors for a job well done... because lets face it, camped survivors are giving valuable time to the others, when they don't suicide, while not gaining anything for themselfes.
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Was going to post it, glad to see I'm not the only one to have kept it somewhere
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It's a bad idea. You're paying someone to just accept the camp at that point. You've not addressed what will happen to the other measures that are currently in place, nor offered a solution, a viable solution, that gets rid of the need of camping. The game shouldn't just hand out 3k bp cause you're stuck on the hook with someone being near you. Also you can't just brush off the potential for abuse. It's one of the few things that greatfully the devs did avoid when their previously tested ideas.
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Your suggestions would essentially make every save a safe unhook. Camping is part of the game like it or not. If the killer suspects someones going for the save they have every right to stay there and look for that other survivors.
I'll agree that face camping sucks but you can't do anything about that without it negatively effecting other gameplay.
In the end game when the gates are open Camping is a must, You can't risk letting a survivor get off the hook, blame the game design for that one. It's pretty easy to get to an open gate, your team can take hits, you can have DS, MoM, BT, DH, Adrenaline ect... It's just not worth it.
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Im sorry, but read the full topic, ive never been with people that want to punish the killer, i just want to reduce saltiness against the killer by giving some bp to the camped survivor.
Also read my comment that i have just posted: "It wont really hurt economic but it will also reward camped survivors for a job well done... because lets face it, camped survivors are giving valuable time to the others, when they don't suicide, while not gaining anything for themselfes."
Also, its funny that im accused both for standing against camping and standing with camping.
Who said that my solution is to get rid off camping? And yes, im accepting the fact that there are campers in this game but do you know why? Its pretty simple, there is just no way of stopping this from happening, so my idea is to just reduce the bp losses for the camped survivor.
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You are criticizing that someone shouldn't be rewarded for failing to escape the chase... but he isn't rewarded for this, he is rewarded for not leaving the match when getting camped and therefor buying his team time to complete gens.
The only people that will loose from this are the killers that are used to the fact, that a camped person suicide on the hook.
Also, i want to ask you something, can you build a statement that is focused to attack my solution, and not me, the person that you are arguing with because right now you are using 2 varieties of the ad hominem fallacy (argument against a person), thit won't and can't lead towards any reasonable discussion.
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Yawn...same ol' excuse every salty survivor main has for this...move along..
It's a legit tactic to camp in almost every online game out there and the only people who ever get mad at a player for using it are the ones who die or fall for it, same for dbd as in other games, get used too it being something that is allowed to be done or just uninstall if it upsets you that bad..
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The killer having fun in no way shape or form has any correlation with the survivors having fun.
I can have fun running impossible skill check doctor or a instakill Myers doesn't mean the survivors are going to have fun going up against it
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Once again very easy to abuse simply start looping tge killer around the hook so the killer either has to abandon The Chase or the survivors get a free boost even though The Killers not technically camping
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If you want to combat camping you need to give incentive not to camp because most of the punishments you guys are suggesting are abusable.
Hell even something like having a repair speed debuff after a survivor is unhooked or saved themselves would actually give a decent excuse for the killed to leave.
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That's pretty much been proven to be the reason they keep suggesting these ideas, so they can abuse them.
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For all those who say camping needs a punishment.
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Your second paragraph has my head spinning BTW. Anyway, I think you should read more carefully as to why I think camping is bad. These are just ideas.
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There's no need for petty comments here. I know what the killers job is. I see camping as and unfair advantage in the killer's favour. the killer already has many advantages.
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Looping is SO easy to combat...
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Why not poping a gen every second the killer is closer than 24 meters to a hooked survivor and granting every survivor 100k bp each second for the trash game, they have to go through?
And when every gen is done and the killer still camps, the survivor gets a free self-unhook with unlimited sprint burst and auto-decisive, jumping into the killers face and stunnig him.
I also think it will be possible for the devs to crash the killer players machine after a game in which he was camping, uninstall Dbd from it, ban him and give him a new achievement "You are a f*cking trash camper and Spidey hates you".
We need to punish, punish, PUNISH!
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Camping sucks and should be saved for huge exp gaps. Like if you got 1 perk and they have 4, an item with 2 add ons and a offer I dont blame you for making sure you get 1. However if youre a decent killer camping is just trolling. I can get all 4 kill running the map and rehooking people. Idk if its a me thing but the chase the hunt is the fun. Not standing their slashing a hung kid. As a survivor I hate campers even tho it rarely happens to me. Why? Because I dont want a free pass to escape because you want one kill like you wont get it the next match. If I dont get chased and hunted I wasted the game time. I wanna be scared, I wanna be hunted, and I dont troll the killer by looping so all I ask is he doesnt ruin the game for everyone by standing still and being boring.
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I actually get props and happy messages for being a good killer who doesnt camp. Sure A kill is nice but I laugh harder when I make someone crawl out the exit. If you troll expect to get salt. That goes for loopers and campers. Survivors get the crows if they camp ig killers get hated. At the end of the day if you dont like the way someone plays just block them, or if you are a survive with friends player and he camps your friend everyone just leave. You dont have to play with them. I always play nice and fair even as a bad guy. I want more friends and enjoy a long game full of close calls and daring rescues.
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Yes, camping is annoying. Yes, the match might be more fun if the killer doesn't camp. But if a killer is camping, survivors should be gen rushing to counter. If you're coordinated with your team and skillful enough, you can unhook the survivor while distracting the killer and possibly get away safely.
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Yea we always get away but thats my problem. I got a decent toolbox ill pop 2 gens almost solo while my buds on the hook. Then my other friends pop the other 2 and we leave. We usually dont get hooked before the first gen pops. Tho it does suck to just show up do gens leave in like a few mins. Im not saying we need to punish campers we just need to put them in game with loopers. Let them bug each other.
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I can get 25k a match as wraith and let everyone live but some people are kill hungry and do w.e it takes to kill a player. Its like yea I get it but I forsure wont be giving you props for standing around while you lose the match.
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Camping is a strat that will work for you or against you, if survivor camps the hook for save which happens hella often with toxic weirdos, the killer will stay near hook too.
But if you stop you either get a free win or the killer will stop camping that person
Camping is also legit tactic to get second chance to win the game if u are unlucky or simply fail some chases. Survivors already have a TON of second chances with perks, but with camping being punishable, after getting looped for some time by someone who actually did their homework you pretty much lose. Looping isnt hard. Hiding isnt hard. You just need to know some numbers to run all killers around for a whole game. Killers are underpowered and this isnt a competetive game.
Solo survivor here.
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@Cejar13321 Dead by daylight is absolutely a competitive game.
It may not be an esport or whatever. But it is still competitive. ANY game where at least 2 players have mutually exclusive win conditions is competitive. That includes Mario Party, that includes SSBM and it absolutely includes Dead by daylight.
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Okay, we can punish campers, if we can also punish 4-man swf that eliminate all but the basement hooks on the map. Or if we can also punish that douche, who is always a Dwight, that pallet stuns and then flashlights you while you're trapped in an animation....
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Emblem penalties are worthless, because rank is not something that is universally valued. It can't be a BP penalty either, because those also aren't universally valued. Some killers see the kill as the only goal, and they don't care about their postgame rewards. It's not a penalty if it is something a player doesn't care about in the first place.
Face camping -- camping very close to the hook, with no other survivors present -- should have a material impact on the current game's immediate circumstances. Give all survivors a substantial bonus to repair speed, or start auto-progressing all generators on the map for every second that the killer does this, or something. It will disincentivize camping greatly.
Also, make Kindred's vision of hook-camping killers a standard part of every survivor's toolkit already. I feel like it's profoundly illogical that this has not been implemented yet.
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Most accusations in face camping I had over my experience is when I stood by they guy as oneshoting killer with gates open. I propose encouraging people to leave the map if killer doesn't leave a survivor. Let's say, for each second near a hook EGC goes 2% faster.
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I agree something needs to be done about it to make the game fun.
The problem with the "just gen rush" argument is that when someone is being camped there's no way for other players to know unless they have kindred. What happens when I play solo is someone gets hooked, sometimes that's me or another player, and no one has kindred equipped. One or more players go in for the save because we know it sucks sitting on the hook not being able to play the game. The person is being camped and the players who aren't aware of this end up walking right into the killers line of sight and then get chased and put into the dying state right away. This leaves several opportunities for the killer player to exploit. They can leave the newly downed player in the dying state and go after any other players who are near the scene of the crime, possibly putting another player into the dying state relatively easily, or they can hook one of the newly downed players. Meanwhile someone will go for a save on the original hooked survivor and get them off just as the second person is put on the hook. The killer player then easily makes it back to the original scene of the crime and downs the survivors who are only just now escaping the area of the original scene that started the whole mess. This just creates a back and forth of people getting downed, hooked, saved, downed, hooked, saved ad nauseum. Eventually players die or disconnect.
Everyone could just rush to finish fixing generators instead but without kindred there's no way to know if you're leaving some poor teammate to linger on a hook and die. Sometimes if the person isn't being camped and we all assume they are the player sees that no one is coming to save them because they can see everyone's auras and realizes they can just DC or die right away and then when they do everyone else realizes they probably weren't being camped and now we're down to a 3 person team.
The problem with trying to make an anti-camp build for a survivor character is that you're basically just never going to use any other perks other than the ones that can mitigate the camping scenario and also takes the fun out of the game. As it stands I've found there's no point in using any perks other than Spine chill, Self care, Urban Evasion, and either Decisive Strike or an exhaustion perk since that's the only combo that works in all situations. The other perks are fun but essentially useless since you rarely get any opportunities to use them since most of them are effective only against specific killer opponents or their benefit is easily negligible in instances where the killer player is being a d****o (camping, lag switching, tunneling etc). The only time I really use any other perks anymore is if I'm in a SWF group, otherwise as solo they're useless.
I like what they've done with the sabotage perk since it's actually worth having now. It's nice since it discourages camping. After a save just break the hook the other survivor was on and at least buy them a little time before the killer comes back from proxy camping and downs them again.
The whole hook mechanic is pretty lame. I'd say just get rid of the hook altogether and then there's no more camping at all. Make it so once a person is put in the dying state they just die. Then we can just move on to a new match. It's probably easier to balance the game without the hook anyway.
I just had a match where 3 of the 4 survivors had kindred against a wraith that had the insidious perk. They were just standing in cloak mode next to the hooked player and going completely stealth. We all caught on after one or 2 hook saves and then just gen rushed and the killer disconnected the match on us.
The hook is just a dumb game mechanic.
I understand sometimes the killer player can't help it. I've had dumb teammates in solo mode who just ran to get people rescued before the killer player even left the scene of the hook repeatedly or where they just plain suck at remaining hidden near the hooked player. Those instances are not the majority of camping in my experience.
Some of the most fun matches I've played ended with all the survivors dying. They were still fun because the match lasted like 25 minutes or what seemed like longer and that's because no one got camped or even proxy camped or tunneled and it was fun as hell.
And this brings me to the Doctor. Where do I begin? I'll save it for another rant.
Anyway TLDR My solution is just get rid of the hook altogether. It's dumb.
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This - the first 2 lines. 100% Agree. Glad other people think the same way.
Kindred on everyone is way too strong. Just the information it gives will reduce quite a lot of perks to useless. You see first the killer then where everyone else is and what they are doing, also the gens if they are on gens. Bascailly you can run to someone rush a gen or find a budy to heal, or go finish a gen that someone else was doing before the killer starter chasing him. It is A LOT of info
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Love it or hate it, my idea have it so if the killer camps on a first hooked survivor once a survivor hits the struggle stage the entity becomes disatisfied and releases the survivor or you could call it "Tainted meat" The survivor gains an endurance buff or unhookable for a 5-10 second period. Depending on the killers distance, The endurance means a killer can't just smack you back down, being attacked will put you in deep wound state and once the endurance wears off if the player hasn't healed up they go back to dying state. Or instead of the endurance buff the hook breaks for the normal sabotage duration. The killer has to move to another hook giving the survivor more wiggle time. At least then everyone gets a second chance. I can see why some folks complain if you've been waiting in the lobby for a long time and your camped to death within minutes it can feel unrewarding. A killer can be in a game pretty fast. If you're a survivor in a group you can be waiting up to 10 minutes maybe even more for 2 to 3 minutes play with a camping killer, let us play too.
Post edited by incie84 on0 -
I just can't understand why ppl get upset over this if you have a good team and a killer camps at least two gens, maybe three can be completed. From a killer standpoint that's penalizing enough I personally don't do it anymore considering I'm a Myers main and I'm going to find you regardless and depending on the build I use I can instantly kill you once you've been hooked once with one of the Myers offerings so I would prefer you escape that's just my thought so respectfully I would have to disagree with any changes.
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Honestly from a killer perspective, I don't really agree with this. Honestly the only reason I camp,is when there is 1 gen left and there spread out, or the gates can be opened. Otherwise, no. Sorry, just no.
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Play killer and camp the hook after look at your emblem you will see just how much point killer are losing for camping
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The "community"? You don't speak for us at all buddy. Also if camping is to be punished then why not 360ing or bodyblocking? Those are also unconventional means to win at the game, but they do the job.
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I wrote this in another thread, but I'll bring it up here again.
"The other survivors can do gens!" ..........AND?!?! What about the person on the hook?? It's not about the overall match outcome. It's about the players PLAYING the game. Getting forced to do NOTHING for 2 minutes is GRIEFING. No matter what your excuses are. If you camp when there are more than 3 gens to be done, you are DENYING A PLAYER FROM PLAYING. You are denying them of making points. You are IMMOBILIZING them. And what do you call it when another player immobilizes you for long periods of time and/or prevents you from making points in a game? Griefing.
If you camp right off the bat at 5 gens. You are GRIEFING. You are not "securing a kill" you are denying that player from PLAYING the game. It's not so different from bodyblocking someone in a corner the whole match. (Ya'll remember hatch standoffs??)
When survivors get hooked, that hook should switch places with the farthest hook possible. The killer can still decide to go and camp that hook, but the survivor should get A LOT of points if they enter 2nd stage without being rescued (the killer being nearby will not need to be a requirement for this scoring event to trigger, the survivor should be rewarded for being patient and sacrificing a hook state). If the survivor attempts an escape, this scoring event does not trigger.
And PLEASE make struggling on the hook give 2k points. It's ridiculous that it only gives you 891 points for mashing your spacebar for a whole minute. Bonus points if you die with the Killer being nearby for more than 30 seconds.
This won't punish killers, but atleast it'll relief the griefing by giving points to the survivor that's being prevented from playing.
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