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So Clown's the least Lethal Killer on PC
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This thread was about clown but people focus on the hag too much, anyways.
Without addons, clown's power doesn't do anything. 2 second slow down would not be horrible if he didn't get slowed down as well. Even then, I don't think he will be a really good killer.
In my honest opinion, devs should really try redhead's pinky finger addon as baseline for the clown. At first, it seems like a ridiculous buff but hitting survivors with the bottles is not that easy.
In that way, low rank clowns will not destroy survivors because they will miss the bottles but in higher ranks, as both killers and survivors become better at the game, clowns will have a little bit more chance.
Or it is a ridiculous buff and make him OP, Idk. I am pretty sure they have clowns' stats with and without pinky finger addon. They should check them.
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You can sit here and put good killers vs bad survs all day it doesn’t even give an accurate rating on how good that killer is it’s not pulling the same level of skill vs the same lvl of skill. The problem has never been the killers to begin with it’s always been how fast the games goes vs how long it takes to catch a good surv on a loop. If you’re sitting there facing people who just run out in the open like chickens with their heads cut off vs players who pay attention and go to a loop right away and from there another and another there’s a big damn difference. Gens over average without toolboxes or perks that assist or other players on the same gen take roughly one and half mins to complete and that’s not counting if you can land greats like a god vs a loop that can keep a killer busy for the same amount of time is not balanced period and that’s why I say these killers suck because they have almost no way of cutting the loopers shorter through their power against good survs and don’t sit there and go oh I’ll place a trap at this window and while your doing that the surv has ran to another loop instead. Stop judging a killer tier vs garbage I get it you play vs rank 10s to bad they’re ######### and literally run at the killer half the time because they don’t look in more than one direction at a time. Most killers are balanced period it’s just poor design for an asymmetrical game where a lot of the power is with the team with more player instead of the one player on their own
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I never said I was a fan I Just agree. And ya the ranking system is garbage but atm it putting bad survs with bad survs, average with average and good with good so yes using the current system to judge a killer is accurate
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You are making the assumption that just because most Nurse players are bad on console that Nurse is a bad killer on console. No she is still the best killer, it's just most players never put in the time to learn her because it's a bit more difficult than on PC. Majority of Nurse players on Xbox play at low ranks and tend to get bullied by derankers (or are just flat out not good killers in general). That brings down her average kill rate, but it's not proof she is bad, just proof that most players don't care to put in the time to learn how to play her properly.
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Well deranking was removed So you black pip if you d/c
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When did I ever say that Nurse was a bad killer on console? I never said she WASN’T the best killer in the game. She is. What I was saying was that she is not AS viable on console as she is on PC because the frame rates on console are ass. I play on console, I know how bad the frame rates are. I’ve even had the game run like it was in stop motion at one time and I just had to stop playing.
With all the lag and bad frame rates on console it doesn’t help Nurse due to the precision you need for her.
Why would you spend hours on end trying to push through bad frames to play Nurse when you can easily pick up Billy, Spirit, or Hag who don’t take as much skill as Nurse? Some argue Spirit is hard to play but she isn’t as hard as Nurse and if she screws up her power it is still more forgiving than Nurse.
Nurse is surely the best killer but many players don’t have the patience to learn how she plays especially on console because it isn’t as smooth as PC. That’s what I’m getting at, not that Nurse is a bad killer. I NEVER made an assumption that Nurse was a bad killer, ever.
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Yes but gotta remember people were not as good back then on surv either.
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Yes but gotta remember people were not as good back then on surv either. As I said many times the killers not the issue.(except Freddy)It’s the game speed trapper and hag need time to set up to do their max damage, the game progresses to fast for that
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Yes but gotta remember people were not as good back then on surv either. As I said many times the killers not the issue.(except Freddy)It’s the game speed trapper and hag need time to set up to do their ma
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So, I'm going to ignore the entire Hag conversation here and touch on the Clown:
Let's say they fixed his bugs and talk about his power: It's not good. The fact that he slows himself down for a chance to give a similar slow to Survivors is not good enough all things considered, especially when you consider his other downsides, including the fact that he basically negates the time saved in the chase with the time spent to reload. Clown's goal is to be the best in a basic chase, and use that to apply pressure, so let's expand on that:
Flask of Bleach getting built in and having his self-slow halved would be a fine start to the idea of being the strongest non-teleport chaser. Alternatively, give Clown some form of built-in Ether, since the slow seems to stop very quickly after leaving the gas cloud, though I'd still say to reduce the self-slow. For the reloading, you could either have it include a passive effect as Madjura suggested earlier in the thread, increase the reloading speed by like, 25%, or increase the number of base bottles. Of course, any combination of the above would also be fine to test, I'd even be down for a PTB in which all of this is included.
Clown as a concept is fine, but his chasing power is far too inefficient to not have any form of Mobility or Stall, + he's by far the single buggiest killer in the game. I'm not surprised he's non-lethal, his power is more of a detriment until you either get *really* good with him, or you run good addons.
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I've added a list of suggestions I've seen to the original post.
Post edited by se05239 on2 -
Yes that statistics are strange for me bc as a survivor i give clown 4th play behind nurse, spirit and billy.
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@noneofyourbusiness I think the majority of people would throw Clown into the mid tier area. He's clearly not up there with the rest.
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Maybe if Clown's bottle could damage gens that would improve his map pressure.
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@MegMain98 "When did I ever say that Nurse was a bad killer on console? I never said she WASN’T the best killer in the game. She is. What I was saying was that she is not AS viable on console as she is on PC because the frame rates on console are ass. I play on console, I know how bad the frame rates are. I’ve even had the game run like it was in stop motion at one time and I just had to stop playing."
She is as viable, that's my point. I know Nurse players that are really good and are ALWAYS very difficult to play against. Also, you play on PS4 yes? Xbox frame rates are bad too but if you have Xbox One X it makes a HUGE difference in frame rates. PC Nurse might ultimately be better, yes, but that doesn't mean console Nurse is that much worse. The differences is very minimal at most, and mostly comes down to the map (Haddonfield and Lery's are generally bad for killer frame rates, but that's it really).
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@thesuicidefox How'd that even make sense?
@Peanits / @not_Queen, Do you two got any opinions on how you'd improve Clown?
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Well, if it would start regression, then you can apply said regression from a distance while also not having to go through a kicking animation.
And that would give him multiple seconds extra per Generator, which will definitely add up.
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I never get bad frame rates on those maps. My frames drop significantly on Ormond and Red Forest due to the snow and rain :/
Nurse is the best killer, yes. I just don’t see a purpose in practicing her when frames can screw you over. The learning curve doesn’t make it much better. I WANT to be better at Nurse because I love her lore and her look but I’m just awful.
If somebody plays Nurse on console and is good with her then that is great...keep doing what you’re doing. I personally just can’t play her because PS4 probably has the worst frame rates of all platforms. That is why I mainly see Billy, Spirit, and Myers at high ranks. Sometimes I see Huntress but she can be pretty wonky to due to frames.
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The clown is fine, he just doesn't do well at low rank due to well, him not being there or people playing him being new to the game and learning his power. Killers played in just high rank or towards high rank aren't killing a huge pool of players, killers played in a wider rank spread gets more kills.
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The only reason Nurse is in the trash section for consoles is because no one on consoles know how to use her. I'm alright with her, wouldn't say I'm great or even "good" with her, but if used correctly and smart, her power is limitless.
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If the cloud hits a gen it acts like a kick unless a survivor is working on it. This would basically let him kick gens from a distance, which helps his map pressure.
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"cLoWN Is fINe"
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@thesuicidefox Ah, I see what you mean. I've added your idea to the list in the OP.
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Simple fact to show how weak he really is.
- Clown move at 115%.
- Intoxicated effect last 2s when leaving the gas cloud.
- Survivors ms is reduced by 15%.
- Have 4 bottles.
- Bottle toss has no purpose except with Redhead add-on and give extra BP without.
Downside to it.
- Have reduced ms while throwing bottles.
- add-ons reliant.
- reload speed by default takes 5,5s (estimated not accurate value).
- Have no map pressure.
- intoxicated effect only last 2s after leaving gas cloud
Add-ons : notes
- Intoxication effect by rarity : brown = 2,33 - green = 2,66 - Purple = 3s.
- flask of bleach : increase hindered effect by 5%
- sulfuric acid vial and kerosene can are the most useless add-ons for clown.
Ideas to buff him right.
- Make solvent jug in base kit at lower value like 5-10s or while they are intoxicated.
- Redhead add-ons in base kit.
- increase default intoxicated effect by 1s.
- increase hindered effect by 5%(flask of bleach base kit or not)
- reduce reload time by 1,5s from 5,5s (4s)
- add 1 more bottle.
As for add-ons.
- Rework kerosene can and sulfuric acid vial (Kerosene increase blurred effect slighly, sulfuric increase gas cloud duration slightly.
- change to cigar box due to kerosene can rework. current cigar box : Slightly expands The Afterpiece Tonic Gas Effect area + Slightly prolongs the intoxicated target's blurred vision. NEW : same but moderately increase the blurred vision
Tell me what you think those are just ideas this make clown way more viable at current red ranks.
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@xllxENIGMAxllx I am not a fan of the Redhead's Pinky Finger add-on being a default part of his kit because have you seen how Hillbillys does it? Walk up to the back of a survivor, hit them and down them.
The whole herding aspect of his power is gone when he's rewarded for being up someone's arse and knocking them in the back of their head with his bottles.
Still, I added it to the list.
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Just giving him one bottle and increase the effect and MAYBE increasing the area of the gas will help him big way.
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She can do better it isn’t as hard as you think it is to get a 4k with her. Currently a rank 2 Hag Main.
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Clown is not a bad killer by any means, but his power requires some smart use. Example: If you don't have exhaustion addon on, tagging survivor dropping a pallet is just waste of bottle which you have to reload later. People are using him wrong, that's all. Bottles are there to just hoard them into different path or force slow vaults.
The problem is: if you are smart and good with mindgames (which clown needs) why not playing nurse?
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hes the worst killer in the game/??
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@se05239 yes of course i understand your meaning sure he remove the goal of the bottles. Maybe it is too much but everything else are great ideas.
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@xllxENIGMAxllx Its a good idea, I just fear it being too overwhelming.
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It just struck me but why the fudge does the Clown even make "old man" noises when he vaults stuff? Every other killer is silent when vaulting..
Removing it would help him mindgame a tiny bit. Added it to the list.
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Xbox survivors Disconnect constantly whenever I play clown. I ask them why and they say "I just don't like playing against Clown"
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@Rasinbran Doesn't the gas particle effect murder the fps on consoles?
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Good note, most people don't understand how those stats break down, and what's included with those numbers.
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Nope.
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@xllxENIGMAxllx So they fixed it? Nice.
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Well it used to cause a lag spike whenever an affliction took effect such as mangled or any of those types.
So really it will only do it when he has an add on that does something.
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@Rasinbran Ah, good to know. But none of that happen anymore? Kinda nice. The console version has improved a lot since its release.
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I just want to say that I love playing Nurse on PS4.
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@ShrekIsHot Not quite relevant to this thread but like, good for you.
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Clown is decent, but at the same time, I hardly ever see a clown in a game. Perhaps his playstyle isn't as intriguing to other players, so I'm going to suggest a mediocre buff to him.
- Tremendously decrease the cool-down between bottle throws.
This allows him to cover more space in less time, plus who doesn't like throwing stuff super fast?
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As for a small-ish AoE, if you can throw more bottles within less time than before, you're covering more area.
However, I wouldn't be opposed to the clown starting with 5 bottles instead of 4.
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And yet so many put him in B tier... He's awful. He can only shorten loops at tiles that are already unsafe to begin with unless he has a Hindered or Exhaustion add-on. He can reduce the number of loops at really nasty windows IF you land the bottles, but if that's what you're bringing him for, why are you not just playing Nurse, Spirit, Hag, Huntress, or hell, even Trapper? The issue is that he's a one trick pony, but he doesn't even perform that trick as well as a lot of other killers who also provide other tools. C tier at best, but I think he's one of the worst killers in the game.
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One minute on generators is fine. It's just that chases can drag on far longer than one minute due to horrible map design of loops/double pallets in jungle gyms, etc., And the fact that we have more huge maps now that give killers a major disadvantage in being able to patrol the generators and apply map pressure.
It feels awful to deal with stealthy survivors where you go to one side of Temple of Purgation and nobody's there. (-.-)
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@tehshadowman33 Unrelated to your post in general but if you want the guy you're quoting to know that you've replied to them, you should @ them. Otherwise, they'll never know you replied.
And yes, map design sucks. Thankfully, the developers got plans to change two maps per year. We should be having a bunch of good maps in like a decade or something.
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Only a decade? Wow, that's sooner than I expected. :P
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"SO CLOWN'S THE LEAST LETHAL KILLER ON PC"
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