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4man SWF Perks: Monthly Reminder
A monthly reminder of all the additional perks 4man SWFs get:
Bond
"I see you, on my way."
Breakdown
"Killer is heading back to your hook."
Buckle Up
"My recovery is maxed, come heal back up."
Dark Sense
"Killer is heading towards X."
Deja Vu
"There's a gen over by the water tower."
Detective's Hunch
"The gen/chest/totem is near the exit door."
Distortion
"Pretty sure killer has BBQ, hide behind gens."
Empathy
"You're close to me, come over here so I can heal you."
"You're heading towards our gen, lead the killer the other way."
Kindred
"Killer is camping/proxy camping."
Object of Obsession
"I see the killer over there towards me at the digger."
Open Handed
VoIP = global distance
Plunderer's Instinct
"There's an unopened chest on the top floor."
Premonition
"Killer is heading towards your gen."
"Stop healing, killer is coming."
Small Game
"Found the totem, it's upstairs in the Myer's house."
Spine Chill
"Stop healing, killer is coming."
"Killer is heading this way."
Wake Up!
"Exit Gate is behind the house."
"I'm heading for the gate with killer chasing, cover me!"
Windows of Opportunity
"There's no more pallets on the main street."
VOIP COUNTERS KILLER PERK:
A Nurse's Calling
"Killer came straight to me while healing, must have Nurse's."
Barbecue & Chili
"Killer heading straight for the furthest gen where you're at."
"Getting hooked, hide behind the gens."
Beast of Prey
"Killer is still chasing you."
Dark Devotion
"Careful, terror radius is on me at the moment so they probably don't have one."
Hex: Any
"Found the totem, it's by the killer shack. Getting chased away from it right now."
Insidious
"Killer is hiding/camping near my hook with no terror radius."
Knock Out
"I've managed to crawl away and currently by the exit gate."
Make Your Choice
"Just got MYC, careful when unhooking the rest of the game."
Monitor & Abuse
"Heartbeat just suddenly got louder, careful trying to juke since they have M&A."
Play With Your Food
"Killer is hitting me (the obsession) and leaving. Watch for PWYF speed buff."
Rancor
"I'm the obsession with no obsession perks, and I seem low priority on chases. Killer may have Rancor."
Territorial Imperative
"Went to basement for the chest, killer came straight downstairs and started searching lockers. Probably Territorial."
Tinkerer's
"Killer suddenly has no terror radius.", "My gen is almost done.", "Then they must have Tinkerer's."
Whispers
"Killer keeps patrolling the area I'm in, pretty sure they're using Whispers."
@Peanits @not_Queen I'm sure the balancing team takes this into account, correct?
Comments
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Wow. Just wow.
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This is so cringey.
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@brokedownpalace Indeed it is, and all true. This game is not meant for this type of information to be known by everyone at all times.
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While it is true that SWFs have advantages over solo players, this seems a little excessive.
For example, "The killer is near the water tower".
Well where's the water tower? What side of the water tower are they on? Are they getting looped?
Perks provide information that friends can't always provide consistently. I'm no SWF supporter by any means, but this is a little much
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Correct. 4man SWFs basically have maphacks. They know where the killer is at nearly all times and relay that information to their teammates.
Its not only a 'bit much', its freaking ridiculous.
@NightmareReborn Also, this is assuming you have map knowledge. There's only 1 water tower and its in the edge every time (MacMillan).
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MacMillan water tower. By the edge of the map.
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I can honestly say I have never seen anyone relay to their buddies that the killer is using Beast of Prey. That would be silly. That would require having someone run over to watch you get chased when you could just use your peepers and watch for them yourself. Their terror radius doesn't disappear and you'd still be in a chase, you just wouldn't see the stain.
I won't disagree with all of the points you've listed, but when you list things that aren't true just for the sake of listing them, it doesn't make your point stronger, it actually makes it appear weaker.
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Out of the 22 extra perks survivors get for playing SWF, you chose Beast of Prey as unrealistic. This may be true, but it doesn't change the fact. (also, the other 21 additional perks, any problems there?)
One survivor on a SWF knowing the killer has beast of prey? Now all know.
That is the most important thing.
Everyone has information they should NOT have because of relays over voice comms.
Is BHVR doing anything to address the extra 21 perks (-beast of prey knowledge) that SWF get? @Peanits
Do you understand the fact that 4man SWF w/ comms allow survivors to gain information and killer location they should not have? Does anyone at BHVR understand this concept?
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Empathy is FAR FAR stronger then what you got here as the SWF equiv.
Even with constant callouts of pallet drops and jukes, you wont give as much info as i get for empathy.
Because empathy pretty much covers the whole map. So i can watch the chase in real time. It's...Honestly stupidly OP.
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Beast of Prey is an example, but perks like Whispers, Make Your Choice and Monitor and Abuse are also things you can very easily figure out on your own. I'm not going to pick them apart one by one but there's a line between what you can figure out with a bit of game knowledge and what you can only do with a group.
It's been mentioned before that we would like to close the gap between SWF groups and solo players. Since you can't remove information from groups, this would have to be done by adding information for solo players and then buffing Killers to compensate. There is no ETA on this at the moment.
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Correct. Figure out on your OWN. You have a massive advantage when your buddy figured it out and relayed it to you so you can avoid it or play around it. That person didn't figure it out on their own yet now has a massive knowledge advantage.
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Glad to hear Solo play is getting some Love.
uWu
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@Peanits Just be honest and say
"We know 4man SWF is a massive problem, we aren't stupid. But we can't do anything about it. We can't prevent them from using voice communications, and if we got rid of 4man SWF, tons of people would complain and maybe stop playing".
The least you could do is require 1 extra generator to be done for 4man SWFs.
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You aren't being honest, so we can't have a constructive discussion.
4 man SWF versus 4 solo players is not just a 'gap', its a totally different game. It would be nice for us (as killer mains) to know that you (as the people we put our faith in) are aware of not only the problem, but the extent of it.
You act like its a minor advantage; it is MASSIVE. @Peanits
As a player, I do not have faith that you, at BHVR, understand the scope of the advantage gained by 4man SWF -- as you've never said or hinted you do.
Not asking you to fix it overnight, but I am asking you to acknowledge there is a massive problem here.
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It's been mentioned before that we would like to close the gap between SWF groups and solo players.
Why do you devs buff solo players not nerf SWF? Do you think it is really right way?
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*loses to a 4 man SWF group that probably wasn't using like half of these*
and that's how this thread was born.
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Just give up man. You aren't wrong at all but no one from BHVR is going to basically bad mouth their product and make them seem like they have no way of fixing things. They know its all bs but they will never admit it to the public, thats too much of a sign of weakness that a company will not put on display.
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Simply put, you can't take away voice chat. Even if you were to detect every voice chat program out there, and even if that was something we wanted to do, there'd be nothing stopping someone from using their phones, for example. The only other way would be to add something to the game to "nerf" SWF groups. This also wouldn't work since a group that really wants to avoid those SWF penalties would be able to queue up solo and dodge lobbies until they find their friends. This is what happened in the beta for the game before SWF existed.
Ultimately there's no realistic way to bring SWF down, so you would need to bring solo players up and then buff killers to compensate.
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They have aknowledged SWF as a problem hence the reason they have been trying for a long time to bring more info to solo and close the gap, you have your answer and its certainly not happening over night so why keep asking in such a derogatory way for the same one we got months ago in this thread?
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@twistedmonkey I've only been playing about 45, maybe 60 days. I don't know what was said on these forums months ago.
For my first two weeks, I legit thought they (4mans) were maphacking or something. than I did a 4man SWF with my friends and realized it. 4man SWF is essentially hacking -- it provides the same information.
I don't like playing games against hackers; it is stressful. This situation pisses me off and ruins my gameplay experience. I have to check profiles now before everygame to make sure I'm not playing with maphackers.
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Peanits already said it had been mentioned before that they were trying to close the gap by giving solo more info before your post is quoted, that is acknowledgement for this thread that they know there is an issue and they are working on it.
Not knowing this or being new doesn't excuse the tone you use as some research woukd get the answers you wanted.
For the record players on comms are not map hackers they, you have to think what multiplayer game doesn't allow friends to play together? Calling them hackers is silly as it's a game feature.
In any game groups will always know where the enemy is over solo players it's just how it is and incredibly hard to fix, Evolve had the same issue with balance, even fps games such as cod and battlefield groups have an advantage of knowing where someone is so it's not just asymettrical games either.
The more info for solo hasn't been working as intended though as no amount of info they can give solo will close the gap and that's the only major issue now, some of the changes inherently buffed swf also.
Solo can tell where the killer is at all times, can't tell what pallets have been used and where, can't tell if someone else is going for the save, how much of a gen has been done for certain conditions such as waiting until saved to hold off so adrenaline can pop at the right after a BT hit to name but a few.
All that though still doesn't change the fact it was quite rude how you implied they were lying and asked them to be honest when in reality they have been they just don't know how to sort the issue.
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People go on and on about how different this game is because its 'asymmetrical'
Except when it comes to comms. Then its fine, because all games use comms.
4man SWF have a massive knowledge advantage they should not have. The game was NOT designed around knowing the killers location, perks, where is safe, when its safe to unhook, what gens are done, where the gens are, chests are.
These are all things SWFs know that the game was NOT designed for them to know. They were not INTENDED to know that information. This is NOT acceptable.
What about that don't you understand? @twistedmonkey
And what tone? Are mods gods now? Am I not allowed to say they are not being honest? What tone works for you? Let me know. I will be assure to adjust my tone to meet your delicacies.
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Reason they don't "nerf" SWF is that theres no right way for doing that without hindering solo as well and solo doesn't need any nerfs... it would also effect inexperienced/newer survivors that already have a difficult time grasping how to play the game as is.... so the better way to do this is to bring solo up to SWF or at least close the gap
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What are you on about? No one has said comms don't give an advantage but the fact is that are part of the game like it or not.
SWF was planned before release it's just that the devs didn't think about much comms could affect the game.
Name one game where people play with friends where comms aren't used? Its a fact nothing more assymetrical or otherwise.
The point I was referring to is not the amount of info comms gives over solo as that is never in any doubt, I was referring to you saying they were not being honest.
The fact is that have acknowledged comms give an advantage and are trying to solve it but it's not as easy as it sounds as like I said you cannot give the same info to solo.
Again what are you on about asking if mods are gods? Are you so upset you have to resort to childish remarks such as that? Being civil to people has nothing to do with being delicate it's part of being a grown up, saying someone is dishonest is rude no matter how you look at it.
You were wrong about them not acknowledging the problem, wrong about them trying to do something about it so just take it as it is, you made a mistake and lashed out at someone and were rude for no reason as you got upset over a video game.
There is a simple solution to people that don't like the game and how it is, play another one, I would recommend civ 5 but since you are newish you probably won't get that joke.
(The game director recommended that people who think like you do take a break and mentioned that game)
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Daily reminder of how much those "additional perks" matter:
Hint: 10% better chance of survival... for less than 5% of all players.
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So what? As seen in the data sheets this doesnt has much effect on their survival rate. You dont have any arguments to complain about swf.
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@Waiting Doesn't separate them across ranks. You might as well say that the average income of an Amazon employee is 100k because Jeff Bezos earns millions. It might technically be true, but it's also completely irrelevant if you want to determine if Amazon's employees are paid enough.
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All you need is a Claudette P3 who's also a wannabe ochido running after the killer like a chicken while holding a purple flashlight, waiting for her mate to get downed so she can flashlight save her. Just imagine them being like "DUUUUUUUUD THIS KILLER'S A BABY" and suddenly "OOOOH HIS RED STAIN DISAPPEARED HAHAHA HE HAS THAT PERK NOBODY USES, WHAT IS IT CALLED AGAIN? BEAST OF PREY YEAH THAT'S THE ONE, HE'S STILL AFTER YOU. DON'T STOP!".
I could bet you 10 bucks that this has already happened. The OP makes an excellent point in an unusual way. Sadly, it's the truth.
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Take a break and play sumthing else
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the simpler thing would be to accept that voice coms are here to stay and that you will never be satisfied by them having a advantage no matter how small it gets with patches or fixes.
so accept it for how it is but the balnce you want will not make the game easier bc the kill/survivoe rate has to be in this range so if anything they will make it easier for solo survivors. you complain now for swf? you will complain about solo too if they "fix" the swf prob.
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They actually hid the killer perks until the game end to avoid people telling other the killer perks after they died
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SWF with comms is not equivalent to hacking, there have been real hackers in this game that can do things far more powerful than a SWF squad. You must be joking, or trolling. Do they have an advantage yes? Do they escape every game? No. Are you more likely to be outplayed by a decent four man SWF sqaud? Yes. Either dodge or improve your skill.
Also way to be rude to Peanits when they basically stated that they're doing everything to can to lessen the gap between Solos and SWF, just because they're not doing exactly what you want doesn't mean they're doing nothing.
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Why are you posting something that everyone already knew?
How is it that killers (good ones) are still able to get 4k in a fair SWF match? Ask yourself those questions before you start pointing out the advantages of one side.
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Keep in mind, you have 2 consoles VS a PC platform.
Most SWF on consoles separate because of the absurd queue times.
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