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Killer Shouldn't Be Able To Close Hatch
As I said in response to another post:
The killer being unable to close the hatch but the timer still existing would end hatch standoffs because the survivor can't just stand there and wait for the killer to hit him like in the past. The survivor HAS to go try a gate or die by the entity. I would prefer this method over the current since the current is one-sided, boring, and in the killers favor unless by some miracle the gates are on opposite sides of one of the large maps, which they rarely are.
This would put pressure on both killer and survivor, as well as add suspense which in my opinion is now greatly lacking. Killer would have to decide if they want to camp hatch or check gates. Survivor would have to decide if going for a gate would be the better choice versus waiting for the killer (who probably knew where the hatch was already and ran straight to it) to leave the hatch.
Either way, the match would be over in 4 minutes with neither player feeling completely cheated and the match still leans slightly in killers favor since opening gates takes time and most survivors will probably try for hatch until time is about to run out.
Edit: I would prefer the timer to auto-start when there is one survivor left rather then have the killer be able to close the hatch.
Edit #2: Adding this vid (ignore DCs because they are not part of the discussion): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYW7xMyqHok&t=1s
Comments
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If the killer couldn't close the hatch, it would just make the hatch a free escape for survivors once again.
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EDIT: I retract this statement.
Post edited by TheGameZpro3 on3 -
- Your complete team died in a teamgame
- The killer find the hatch first
You had 2 chances.
You dont get another chance for a free escape.
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How would it make it a free escape? The killer had to hit the survivor in order for the survivor to jump in and avoid a grab. The killer doesn't have to hit the survivor and with a timer going the survivor can't just stand there and wait for that to happen.
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It is fine
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Again, it wouldn't be a free escape because the timer exists. Meaning the survivor HAS to do something. They can't wait there.
Also, the hatch race isn't a race. Killers are inherently faster than survivors and will almost always find and get to the hatch first to close it.
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But the killer must hook someone first.
Then this person must die on hook and then he can close the hatch.
You know what the killer cant do, but the survivor can do?
The survivor can search for the hatch, while the killer must hook someone.
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The killer doesn't have to search for the hatch because the killer is already traveling around the map over and over again and so actually has a far better chance of finding it than a survivor. Hence why most killers already know where it is and run to close it.
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The survivor doesn't have to search for the hatch because the survivor is already traveling around the map over and over again
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Most survivors aren't traveling all over the map. They're trying to get a gen done and unless chased don't leave it. Also, the death animation takes a significant amount of time, allowing a killer to rush to the hatch. If you're denying killers will reach hatch first in most situations then you're lying to yourself.
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You lost to the killer your teamates lost to the killer you should die but devs gives you a 3 time to escape why need to be on your side ?
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It wouldn't be on the survivors side. The idea I shared is fair to both sides. In fact, it still favors killer because there's a timer and killers travel faster than survivors and don't even have to go all the way to a gate to see if its been touched.
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No.
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The survivor can search the hatch, while his teammate is in a chase.
The killer must hook this teammate.
And then the killer must find/go to the hatch.
What did the survivors?
They repaired 0 gens.
And they can still find the hatch first and escape.
The killer made no mistake and you still want a free escape.
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ok why as survivor you have more than you need to survive and escape and you want more ?
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Again, it's not a free escape and the fact that keeps being said is just mind-blowing. The timer literally guarantees no free escape. Secondly, in most cases if 0 gens are done that killer was being toxic af or the survivors were terrible and if they were terrible the last one is probably as good as dead anyway. And thirdly, killer and survivor both have to find hatch. It's not like that's new so I don't know why that's even being said.
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Please explain to me how the timer existing but the hatch being unable to be closed is giving the survivor more. lol
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When the timer should stat
PS if the survivors done ZERO gens mean they are just bad
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You aren't entitled to escaping, especially if your whole team died. This is an asymmetric game. That means one power role and four smaller roles. Whether you consider your team a "team" or not doesn't matter. Your side lost by that point, so escaping should be something that takes more tactics and skills. If you bring in keys or find keys, you could always reopen the hatch and if you're aware of where the killer is and where the hatch is, you can plan out your route accordingly.
You being the last person alive doesn't make you deserving of a win or the best survivor, either. I see far too often one person trying to do the one-two generators left and the other one camping hatch or just not doing anything 'cause they don't wanna be chased and downed. They need to work for their escape.
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Its a free escape, because survivors could hide the complete match in lockers.
And then they must find the hatch and then they escape.
This survivor didnt do something.
He just camp the hatch,
but he can escape.
And the killer cant grab survivors out the hatch.
If the killer cant close the hatch, then the survivor can just go to it.
And the killer cant do anything about it.
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The definition of a free escape is not what you said @ShyN3ko because as much as you don't want to believe it that's actually incredibly rare. Most people play the game to... play the game.
@fluffybunny I could say the same to you. Killers aren't entitled to that last kill. At least the method I suggested makes it more fair. Right now, it's not and trying to say otherwise is a lie. The solo survivor is at a huge disadvantage.
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@ShyN3ko For clarity, I believe liquidlight has the idea of making end game start the second the second to the last person dies and the hatch to remain open so the killer needs to choose what to pressure. Therefore they wouldn't be able to hide in lockers. Also I believe his idea included the ability to grab the survivor still.
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It wouldn't be a stalemate though because the timer would still exist.
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@ fluffybunny Yes, that's what I was saying and yes grabbing a survivor out of the hatch would still be a thing. I thought that was fun.
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"If you're denying killers will reach hatch first in most situations then you're lying to yourself."
And what information do you base this on?
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Yeah what about the hatch opening when there's still 4 or 5 gens left?
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I still dont get it.
The killer made no mistakes.
He killed your team and find the hatch first.
The survivor shouldnt have an other chance.
The game is over.
Because the survivor must face the killer in a 1vs1 situation.
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I'm a survivor. I often play solo. If my whole team falls, I'm not entitled to a free win. I'm not entitled to something remaining open or an easy out. I need to work for it. How it currently is is fair imo. We can talk about spawning of stuff such as doors or totems being rough, but there's still work arounds and there's still the hope and the possibility of escaping, even in dire situations.
As I said before, if the survivors all die before end game actually starts, they should be put at a disadvantage. Their team has essentially lost. One person escaping is losing. Therefore, they should work for it to prove they deserve the escape, despite their team all falling before the end game could start. Often the people who make it until last are the ones killing their team or playing silent locker roulette.
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@fluffybunny The way I said doesn't make it an easy out nor does it in anyway say survivors are more entitled and I don't even see how it comes off that way. The only thing that changes is the hatch can't be closed. The timer immediately puts the remaining survivor at a disadvantage and they would still have to work for the win. I think it's worthy of testing out.
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As far as locker roulette goes... there is a perk for that. Iron maiden.
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I'm just not convinced that removing the Hatch closing is something that needs to happen. Doing something about the Gate spawns or something, maybe. But I'm not convinced that the race to the Hatch is an unfair one.
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Well, maybe one day the devs will share the data with us so we'll know if its unfair or not. At this time, it seems unfair. I have yet to see a survivor escape through a hatch without a key or open a gate and get away except for one time when the gates were on opposite sides of Red Forest. I'm not saying it's never happened. I'm just saying in the streams I've watched and games I've played it hasn't.
I just like the idea of having more stimulating, suspenseful gameplay. The way it is now, it's not. Hatch gets closed, the survivor realizes they won't get a gate open in time or tries and fails and both survivor and killer stand there waiting for the entity to do its thing. That's boring.
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Or the Survivor gets to the Hatch first. That's an option.
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I've already stated why its highly unlikely survivors will reach the hatch before killers. I haven't been in a game as a survivor or killer where this has happened aside from once on coldwind. I also haven't seen a game on a stream where a survivor without a key got the hatch first. And if my other post shows then you can ignore this one but it said it had to be approved first for some reason so... here's this post instead.
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They both have a chance to see the Hatch before it opens through normal gameplay. If not, it's just a matter of who stumbles upon it first. I don't see reason to believe it's not true.
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They both do, yeah. I never denied that. It changes nothing I've stated, though.
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As a solo survivor I find the egc far more fair than the previous version. I have escaped by hatch, opened the gate during egc and died my fair share as well. As it is everything about it is situational and not distinctly favorable to either side. I have had/seen good & bad setups depending on which side was played and still believe that the egc requires more thought and skill than the previous "I got there first" hatch play.
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I mean, you haven't really proven your case that the Killer finds the Hatch first way more often.
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Reason killers usually reach hatch first:
1) Killers have more movement speed - this doesn't count special abilities like billys chainsaw, nurses blink, spirits phase, wraiths invisibility speed boosts (which can be increased by add-ons), etc.
2) Killers will almost always know where the hatch is because they are patrolling gens and chasing survivors while survivors, unless chased, are relatively static and working on a gen only to bounce to the next one and again remain static.
3) The sacrifice animation allows killers plenty of time to get to the hatch if they know where it is, which they almost always do, and if they don't somehow know where it is then it gives them time to find it
Yes, survivor has a chance to discover the hatch when fleeing killer, moving around map, or during last animation but in a hatch race the killer wins 99% of the time.
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I don't want to get rid of EGC. I like the timer. I think its fun. I just don't like the fact the killer can close the hatch. It is nearly certain death for last survivor.
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1) Not really relevant if the Survivor already knows where the Hatch is and is going for it while the 3rd Survivor is on a one-way trip to Hooksburg.
2) Same can apply to the Survivor through going to gens, saving Survivors, or just being chased.
3) See point 1.
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@TAG See point three.
3) The sacrifice animation allows killers plenty of time to get to the hatch if they know where it is, which they almost always do, and if they don't somehow know where it is then it gives them time to find it
Hatch standoffs were a thing because killers almost always got to the hatch first. if they didn't... survivors would jump in and the match would be over. The sheer number of posts and complaints about hatch standoffs are proof enough killers reach hatch first 99% of the time or hatch standoffs wouldn't be a thing.
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What about the times where the Killer finds the Survivor, and during the chase, they both make their way to the Hatch, where the stand-off occurs because Killer couldn't swing but Survivor couldn't jump?
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That is literally a hatch standoff so I'm confused by your point. The fact that there would be a timer means that there would be a 4 minute standoff at best. You can't tell survivors to stop crying about 4 minutes if you're going to. If the survivor doesn't go for a gate... they're dead.. killer gets the kill.
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That's a Hatch stand-off that occurs as a result of a natural chase, not as a result of the Killer finding the Hatch first. Doesn't seem like you are accounting for that when you say that the Killer finds the Hatch first 99% of the time.
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Hatch standoffs do not always occur from a natural chase all the time. Usually the killer finds the hatch first. Either way it results in the same thing that the timer would ultimately fix. So I don't see why you think its such a bad idea. The killer still gets the advantage and if a standoff does happen the killer also gets a free kill, just like now when a "gate" standoff occurs.
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I'm saying that I don't buy your claim that Killer almost always finds the Hatch first. And because of that, I'm not convinced that the Killer is vastly favored in the race to the Hatch. And because of THAT, I'm not convinced that the ability to close the Hatch needs to be removed.
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