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Killer Shouldn't Be Able To Close Hatch
Comments
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Well, I have several maxed killers that I play every day with wraith and spirit being my favs (I also play survivor every day). If I didn't find the hatch first then the survivor jumped through it. In the majority of my matches I find the hatch first unless its a huge map and I didn't know where it is (usually I stumble upon it). If its a small map like swamp I know I'm going to destroy the team. In the streams I've watched... killers are finding the hatches before the third person is killed and know where it is. If there's a standoff in my match its because I found the hatch and stood there until the survivor just gave up waiting for me to leave and revealed themselves.
But you go ahead and remain unconvinced. The fact that people who play killers are shooting this down simply because they can't shut the hatch even though the timer would remain and promise them a kill shows its not about hatch standoffs at all. It's about that win and getting a 4k. So who's really entitled?
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Exactly +1
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Anecdotal evidence is not great evidence. I could just as easily say that my experiences contradict yours, and neither of us would be able to prove the other wrong.
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Obviously. That's why I said in a prior post that devs should share data on it.
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Right, but it means that there isn't much of a reason to take your word on it. So it becomes "You Killer mains are entitled for not seeing things my way even though I can't really prove my point effectively."
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Hatch was always meant to be a last chance race for the final survivor. Yes, all killers have a 10% or 15% movement speed advantage. Billy here has a 130% advantage. You should consider yourself very lucky to get the hatch. Your team got destroyed, (or maybe it was a close one,) but you still lost, and the hatch is a final small chance for the final survivor.
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You people are crazy....yes, I said it.
Unless it's down to 1 gens, I never know where the hatch is. Even when it is down to 1 gen, it's a 50 50 chance I've ran past it.
I play killer almost exclusively, and I'm telling you, if you think the killer knows where the hatch is anymore than survivors before 4 gens are complete, you're lying to yourself.
Who are these killers that can see the hatch after 1, 2, or 3 gens are complete? Was there a new perk added I don't know about? Killer mobility is about the only advantage to finding the hatch.
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It wouldn't be so bad if the exit gates always spawned at opposite ends of the map, but most of the time they spawn so close that it is impossible to open them. Of course, since there is now a time limit, you have no choice but to try, thereby handing the killer a free kill if the doors are close.
It sucks to play well the whole game and then get punished for it.
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If you don't see the hatch when you're playing killer then you're way too focused on the people you're chasing. If killers finding the hatch first and closing it wasn't a problem then we wouldn't have the countless posts about broken End Game right now.
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@thekiller490490 What I suggested would still make a survivor incredibly lucky to escape.
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"If you don't see the hatch when you're playing killer then you're way too focused on the people you're chasing."
And what exactly do you base this on?
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@TAG Uh... the fact that the killer didn't see the hatch.
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So the Killer didn't see the Hatch, which means that Killer is way too focused on the people they are chasing, and the proof for that is that the Killer didn't see the Hatch?
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@TAG That is a reasonable assumption that the killer didn't see the hatch because he's too focused on his objectives. Yes, there's a chance the killer didn't see it because they didn't run in that location, too. You're really looking for a fight, aren't you? So angry.
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Or dont spawn the exit gates right beside each other, BHVR?
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@TAG I'll try to be as literal as possible but you know I'm just a player... like you... that doesn't have access to data. You don't know if anything is true or not just as much as I don't. It's safe to assume that everything I say is based off MY experiences, just as everything you say is based off yours.
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In a typical game of 4 survivors fully loading into the game...4 generators MUST be complete before the hatch will spawn (closed) for everyone too see (find).
Example: 2 survivors alive, 3 generators completed (2 more needed to power the gates), the hatch has not spawned for anyone. If the survivors complete the remaining 2 generators needed to power the gates, the hatch will NOT spawn (or even be shown). If one of the 2 survivors dies, even with the gates open, and the EGC started, the hatch will NOW spawn (open).
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@FSB75 Yeah, I'm aware of that.
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When I'm playing killer, emphasis on the I, I usually see the hatch... obviously when it has become visible, while chasing someone. Usually because one of the two remaining survivors (in the scenario I'm giving now) is trying to camp it in hopes of getting it before me or because we coincidentally stumbled upon it during our go round around the entire, or half of, the map.
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How is this not survivor sided? The timer means nothing. You may as well remove it. The survivor has all the power. They could camp the hatch and wait for the killer to leave. If the killer does leave, free hatch (it is free because now you dont have to do a single thing other than outlive the other survs for it to open). The killer can make no correct play here. Only rank 20 survivors will ever die in this scenario.
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I'm so confused.
There are very limited circumstances of the hatch being visible to the killer...how can I look for something that can't be seen until it can be seen by everyone? How can I focus too much on survivors to NOT notice a hatch that hasn't even spawned yet?
Just trying to understand your point of view.
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That’s what he wants lol.
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Uh oh! Bait alert!
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It's not a free escape because there would still be a timer. I can't make it any more Barney style than that.
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What you suggested would give a free escape to the survivor a majority of the time, despite what you seem to believe killers can only be in one place at a time and do not have the gift of instant transmision. With 3 points of exiting and only one killer even with the timer the survivor would have to get stupidly unlucky and have the hatch and doors all spawn next to each other to not escape.
Lets take the game map for example, lots of walls two floors and hatch spawns on bottom and doors upstairs.
Scenario 1: killer hooks second to last survivor and heads to hatch, survivor waits hiding far enough that killer having 2 more places to check has to leave the hatch survivor jumps in hatch. Result:escaped
Scenario 2: killer hooks second to last survivor runs to hatch camps hatch survivor opens door .result:escaped
There are dozens more ways it could play out and in all that i can think of the only time the killer has the advantage is when the survivor is short on braincells, cause the timer and lack of information for the killer works against the killer, do i wait at hatch? Is the survivor just around the corner waiting for me to leave the hatch or is he opening the door? Either way its a free escape most of the time baring super bad luck or decisions on the survivors part.
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@FSB75 I don't know why you're confused. We were talking about WHEN the killer has seen the hatch how that gives him a slight advantage due to speed and the way the game progresses (such as slow death animation and other factors), and how the killer has more of a chance of seeing the hatch WHEN it becomes visible due to the fact they are more likely to move around more of the map since they chase survivors and patrol gens/totems. Yes, survivors have that chance to but its not as great and just because one survivor sees the hatch that doesn't mean they all do.
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I'm saying that is circular logic that doesn't hold up.
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@TAG Whatever you say. We're just going to have to agree to disagree at this point.
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Sounds like you’ve go to some get goodin to do because those exit gates don’t regress. Try getting to the hatch before he does, if he closes it, move between the gates and stay out of sight, eventually you’ll get one open and escape. It’s not hard. It’s intense, but it’s not crazy difficult.
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If a killer really doesnt want you to win, it can make it harder, yes.
But thats how this game works.
You lost => You get a second chance => You loose the second chance (hatch) => You get a third second chance by opening the gate and if that doesnt work out for ya, you REALLY LOST.
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@KingB You're post assumes that all survivors are carrying keys and can open the hatch or that the killer isn't going to close it. It is one-sided for the SOLO survivor remaining. Not the team. Teams can still dominate with the End Game. We're not talking about teams though. We're talking about the hatch and how closing it basically sentences the last survivor to death.
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It's not really a loss if you stood no chance to begin with and in some cases survivors stand no chance. If a killer shuts the hatch and the map is small or gates too close together... the killer is the one getting the free kill, the free win, and in some cases doesn't have to do anything but stand there and watch gate lights since they're usually within sight of each other.
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@liquidlight And I'm saying that the window for the killer to "see" the hatch is no different than a survivors....meaning there is no real advantage.
You said a killer that doesn't notice the hatch is TOO focused on the survivors.
I'm saying that when I still have 3 survivors alive, and 1 gen to go, I don't change my priority to finding the hatch. Like most killers with 1 gen left, it's gen jockey time. IF the hatch so happens to spawn in the area or paths between the 3 remaining gens, so be it.
AFAIK, only an idiot killer would ignore the 3 remaining gens and go look for the hatch....which is why the killers often miss it, NOT because they are too focused on survivors.
I would argue that with 1 gen left to power the gates, BECAUSE a smart killer will patrol gens, that leaves the survivors much more time to locate the hatch. With the killers "area of concern" limited by gen placement....unless you (as a killer) just want to give up the last gen, IF the hatch isn't near the gens, survivors are free to find it way before the killer.
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The survivor isn't going to patrol for the hatch if another survivor is still alive unless they're selfish and think they can get it before the other. Most survivors aren't and will continue to work on gens which leaves them static. You said it yourself... the killer is going to patrol which gives them a greater chance of viewing the surrounding areas (not even including when chasing) and seeing the hatch.
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If a Killer has to get to the Hatch before the Survivor, it's not a free kill, is it? Much like how it's not a free Hatch escape for the Survivor because they also have to get to the Hatch first?
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If the killer gets to he hatch before the survivor it's basically a free kill unless in the rare chance the gates are on opposite sides of the map.
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It's funny watching killer mains be on the other side of the spectrum, where they believed survivor mains to be with hatch standoffs, and see them defending it so hard.
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"The survivor isn't going to patrol for the hatch if another survivor is still alive unless they're selfish and think they can get it before the other. Most survivors aren't and will continue to work on gens which leaves them static."
C'mon, really? You don't think a non-negligible number of Survivors look for the Hatch if there are only two Survivors left and they don't think they can finish the gens?
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The area between gens is much more limited than the rest of the entire map.
The killer is limited in the "safe" area to protect the gens. The rest of the map is wide open. As a killer, I'm only going to chase you so far into that corn field or through the jungle gyms.
Perhaps it just comes down to gameplay differences. I just don't see how a limited patrolling killer has a greater chance to come across a hatch that can spawn anywhere on the map before "free roam" survivors.
I understand your point, I respect your point, I fundamentally disagree.
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If they don't think they can finish the gens and have a key or don't care about each other at all then sure... they could look for the hatch. That doesn't mean they'll find it and if they do it doesn't mean the killer still won't reach it and close it before they jump in.
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Didn't I just say that it can't be a free Kill if the Killer has to ensure that they reach the Hatch first? Both sides have to put in work to get to the Hatch first. The amount of work they have to put in varies on how the game unfolded.
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What I was saying with that is that it's often the survivor hiding in lockers and waiting for you to die who gets the hatch.
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The same applies to the Killer as well, does it not? The Killer could look for the Hatch, but that does not mean that they will, and if they do, it doesn't mean that the Survivor won't reach it and jump in before the Killer closes it.
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Killers aren't limited in any way when it comes to patrolling. It does come down to game play. A lot of killers in higher ranks are very thorough when searching around gens or in areas where they may have lost sight of a survivor or thought they saw one in. you saying that survivors are free roam is silly in comparison since survivors are trying to get gens done as much as killers are trying to stop them. Your logic would suggest that survivors would go nowhere else but to gens in that case, just as killers walk straight lines to them apparently. -sarcasm-
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I didn't say Survivors are free roam. I said that Survivors can also look for the Hatch over the course of the game.
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@TAG I never said that it didn't apply to survivors. Yes, they could jump in if they have a decent head-start or the killer has no idea where the hatch is. If it comes down to it the killers closing animation is faster than survivors jump animation. That's been proven.
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Absolutely true. This was the original "hatch stand off". That's why slugging the 3rd survivor became so popular. Hook the 3rd survivor and they will suicide because the 4th survivor is standing on the damn hatch.
Honestly, I can't tell you how many times 2 gens were complete, 2 survivors left, and neither one will work a gen, heal each other, or come out of hiding. It was a question of which survivor messes up first and dies.
The hatch stand off was never truly between a survivor and a killer. It was always between the last 2 survivors. That's the TRUTH!
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@TAG We're literally about to repeat ourselves and I'd rather not re-type what I've already said.
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@FSB75 I can agree with that. But the timer would eliminate any sort of standoff since if there was one the survivor will die by entity.
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Doesn't it come down to who reaches the Hatch first?
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