Massive List of Killer Perk Changes
Comments
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Hex: Lullaby
This seems fair, but with this change would we get tokens from letting people make free saves or would the tokens still be on hooks?
Blood Warden
I only say 30 because at 15 I don't think it would be good enough that anyone would actually run it. I know I wouldn't.
We can test the 30 on PTB tho.
Hex: The Third Seal
Woah, disable ALL of the survivor perks while it's up? That might be too strong lol
If we added the hiding of duration on items to everything else that might just be enough, I like that.
Mad Grit
The problem is if we made that change were basically just running Iron Grasp in a sense. They start to be overlapping in doing almost the same thing.
Corrupt Intervention
Now THIS I like. I'll update my original post.
Remember Me
Well my original change was 8 seconds per obsession hit with a max of 32 seconds added. That may seem like a lot added, but remember it has a high requirement of getting lots of hits on the obsession which might not even happen and it's a completely dead perk all game. So you're running a 3 perk game to get a boost at end game.
NOED
That's understandable. More of an issue for how it will affect low ranks.
Unrelenting
I like that. Would it still also have the effect of ignoring hit blocker effects like BT or MoM?
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Hex: Lullaby
I feel like free unhooks would cause the perk to be too weak since it already has the possibility of being useless. I say you get tokens upon hooking survivors since the perk already has a crippling possibility.
Blood Warden
PTB testing will be the only answer to see whether or not 30 seconds is fair. We just have to be careful, or else the perk will be trap survivors for too long. I wouldn't want to be the unlucky survivor who deals with this in almost every game imo.
Hex: The Third Seal
Maybe I was a bit harsh on that suggestion, but definitely having items hidden while having blindness will be great! :)
Mad Grit
Yes, I understand that but they play completely differently. Iron Grasp gives you more control generally while Mad Grit gives you more control around hook, but minus the struggle reduction from Iron Grasp. In fact, if the player had some skill, you could make it to the basement by taking a path that passes many hooks on the way.
Remember Me
32 seconds isn't that bad, and if you're the last survivor, the EGC will be 1 minute and 28 seconds. I like your idea imho!
Unrelenting
No, but you won't lose as much distance since you're not suffering a harsh speed penalty during the recovery animation.
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Hex: Lullaby
Sounds good to me, I'll update my post
Hex: The Third Seal
Yeah I think the little extra addition of the item hiding was just the right amount more it would need. Will update my post.
Mad Grit
I feel like one would just overshadow the other. It's w/e though
Unrelenting
Seems good, post updated.
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Another update: Changes were made to a few perks.
Post edited by Blueberry on2 -
Some perks entire ideas were altered after community feedback
Post edited by Blueberry on1 -
Blood Warden:
When an exit gate is opened, upon hooking a survivor, this perk calls upon the Entity to block the exit gates for 40/50/60 seconds. Hooking survivors while Blood Warden is activate will cause the Entity to block the exit gates for an additional 30 seconds.
Hopefully you're right about this Blueberry because I just got a game and this happened...
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You missed this part of the new perk.
"Now that we have the EGC this should block the exit gate switches instead of the gate itself."
So the EGC kill would never actually happen.
Also, that situation in the video is HIGHLY situational and is VERY rarely happening. The majority of the matches the perk won't even end up activating or it will simply be waited out while they just hide with its current iteration.
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Coulrophobia should be map-wide unconditionally, having effect only in TR renders perk useless and dull, also it should affect only healing, self-healing and mending. Also numbers tweaked to 11/22/33% on tiers.
Thanatophobia should not affect healing (should affect repairs, cleasing, snapping out, chest searching, sabotaging) and have 30% at max effectiveness and be dynamically applied, i.e. 7.5% per injured when 4 ppl alive, 10% per injured when 3 alive, etc.
Fire Up - basically now you have maximum effectiveness when you already have no need in it. All gens done, helping in last chase is not that good.
Tokens should be gained by hooks as well, so you can reach maximum faster during trial. 3 gens done and 2 hooks? You are Fired Up.
Predator should show walking scratch marks.
Hearing footsteps should be implemented in Stridor.
Shadowborn - lessen fog effects for killer on top of FoV increase. T3 removes fog completely no matter how much bottles were used as offering. Also works in Dream World for Freddy.
Beast of Prey - Prey should hear heartbeat during chase as if Killer behind their back on top of red stain changes in TS post.
Mad Grit - 1 hit is not too good, totally removes ability to gain points for protection, etc. Since its Legion perk originally - Mad Grit should apply DW on hit on top of all its other properties.
Edit: some spellings.
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Coulrophobia
That would be completely and utterly broken.
Thanatophobia
That's basically the changes I was making.
Fire Up -
I could see including hooks for tokens.
Predator
That would be completely broken as well.
Stridor
That would be a nice change. Although I'd rather have the breathing be louder than adding footsteps since it would equate to the same thing but still fit the perk thematically.
Shadowborn
I like the idea.
Beast of Prey
That might be too much
Mad Grit
Protection hits aren't realistically happening that much to begin with and even if it did block them you are losing an entire perk slot for it. Applying Deep Wounds would be trash. Deep Wounds in its current iteration is a meaningless effect. No one would use this perk if that was its change.
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You don't need to keep necroing this post because nobody's commenting on it.
I'm not even sure if that's allowed, not sure about that on these forums but on others I've been on its not.
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Firstly, it's not necroing as it's only a post from like a day ago.
Secondly, it is allowed and not against the forums Terms of Service.
It's a thread with significant changes the game needs.
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Yea, @Blueberry it isn't allowed as stated on the Community Guidelines.
- Do not spam (pictures/gifs/videos too) or bump discussions. Same can be said about trolling, baiting and provocation.
@Peanits your thoughts?
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Ah my mistake bumping is after all. In light of that all "bump" posts were removed and no further "bumps" will be made.
Now my discussion is entirely in line with community guidelines per this post.
You can kindly move on now.
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Ok...?
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Coulrophobia - it wont be broken, we have Sloppy which applies 20% debuff + bleeding frequency and it works no matter where you are healing. Noone ever said its broken, vica versa ppl say it should be buffed. Also to prevent them combined be too strong they just should not stack.
Thanatophobia - I checked your post before writing mine. Your suggestion a bit different, when you have died/sacrificied/dced survivor - debuff could not be removed by other survivors. My version keep properties same as now - you have debuff only when someone injured, but it maintains its numbers during trial.
Predator - hardly will be broken, should be tweaked ofc for walking ones, like you can see them as last 3 seconds of running ones for said 3 seconds only.
Beast of Prey - dunno, I see this perk as hunting (since from Huntress, sigh) one, you're prey, you've been hunted, you're terrified, you seems to see hunter everywhere, you can barely hear your footsteps behind your heartbeat. Doc has such effect as addon, doesnt seem ppl afraid it too much.
Mad Grit - its pretty strange perk as it is now. Giving it exposed ability probably too much, you can just go for Mad Grit, Agitation, Grasp and Enduring/PWYF, and run around with someone on shoulder oneshotting ppl.
Maybe some debuff for 60/90/120 seconds when you hit someone when carrying surv, like 50% to actions speed.
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If my discussion is following community guidelines why are you still here harassing?
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Cause its a public post and I can comment on it as I please?
Why're you getting mad about it, if I actually cared I would of reported the post for going against the Community Guidelines... But I didn't.
And before you say "but why did you put peanits in your post" because I just want his thoughts on it, I wasn't trying to get you warned for it.
You can relax.
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Coulrophobia -
I see what you're saying. However even slower healing than we already have I feel would be highly hated by most the community. I'm all for the game needing to be slowed down more but I'd rather do it in another way. Also this change would basically just overshadow Sloppy. The extra bleeding affect almost no one cares about. It would just replace it.
Thanatophobia -
Sorry I'm a little confused by your description. Could you explain it again for me?
Predator - This would give scratch marks on walking and running. There wouldn't be a counter and they'd have no way to be stealthy. It just seems too strong to me.
Beast of Prey - I see what you're saying thematically, I just see the removal of the red stain already being strong enough that it wouldn't need anything else. This could be tested in a PTB though.
Mad Grit -
No one would run that combo and try and run people down, that wouldn't make any sense. Even with all those perks you could still outrun the killer with someone wiggling on your back and even then that's him wasting almost all of his perks slot for a meme build.
Also, as soon as you down 1 person with the one shot no one else would try it. Would downing 1 person highly situationally a game be worth running this perk? Probably not. Using something like MYC is completely in your control, not situational, and could trigger MULTIPLE times. Even with my change MYC looks superior so I don't see that as an issue for the change.
I like the debuff idea but it just seems too weak. Like hitting someone while carrying is VERY situational and rarely happens. It needs to be a big pay off. Not to mention once they know you're using it they are never doing it again.
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You literally came in here to complain about the "bumps" on my post...i mean common..really? That's quite petty and is why it would be annoying to most anyone.
"if I actually cared I would of reported the post"
You called attention to a forum moderator to come look at my post by @ ing him..that''s basically reporting my discussion and your being coy about that.
"And before you say "but why did you put peanits in your post" because I just want his thoughts on it, I wasn't trying to get you warned for it."
To say this is being disingenuous. You quoted the forums guidelines so you knew very clearly what is and isn't against Terms of Service, so to say you "just wanted his thoughts on it" is a complete cop out. You know exactly what you were doing. There was no "thoughts" to give. It's quite black and white.
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I do care about bleed effect, sometimes I run Bloodhound+Sloppy just to be able track ppl easier.
Thana - hmm, I thought I did pretty clear description. It should work like its now - for each injured survivor debuff for all actions, except healing, applied. But its dynamic.
4 ppl alive - 7.5% debuff per injured up to 30%
3 ppl alive - 10% debuff per injured up to 30%
2 ppl alive - 15% debuff per injured up to 30%
1 ppl alive - 30% debuff per injured up to 30%
Thus, no matter how much ppl alive you can achieve max effectiveness of perk at any given time during trial. Nowdays as less ppl alive - perk becomes worse and worse.
Mad Grit - exposed effect will have 1 time use in fact. As soon as someone will be hit - you will never hit anyone again during carry. Is it worth to waste perk slot for a single down or maybe even none at all? While having debuff will not aware other survs and will put them in choice - getting debuff and get some points or maybe wiggle save or just wait and unhook.
Predator - Urban Evasion counters walking part since you crouch at walking speed.
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Alright, you caught me. Yes, I @ 'ed him because I didn't agree with the bumping and it was a bit childish of me I apologize.
But I stand firm on what I said before, I didn't want you warned for it "like a warning on your profile" I just wanted you to be aware of this and if it was addressed to be "verbally warned" for it. Which is why I did that instead of reporting you for it, which if they took it seriously WOULD of gotten you warned.
I can agree it wasn't the right way to go about it and i'm sorry for that. Perhaps I worded it that way to not induce a fight out it, I don't expect you to accept my apology but it's there for you to consider.
To make it clear, I have nothing against you @Blueberry I just didn't agree with the bump posts that you were making on a post that kept being ignored. Hell, mine has finished its cycle of comments on it and I will leave it finished. I do hope we can be civil about this and move on as it wasn't my intention to personally attack you.
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"I do care about bleed effect, sometimes I run Bloodhound+Sloppy just to be able track ppl easier."
That's a fair point, but only for meme's or low ranks. No one in red ranks is legitimately doing that build as it isn't seriously viable for competitiveness in those ranks.
Thanata -
This looks like basically what I had listed.
Increased percentages, doesn't affect healing and works on injured/dead/dc'd players.
Mad Grit -
I could see the debuff working then, it would just need to be MUCH more severe than your previous one.
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I accept the apology and it's alright.
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Glad to hear it.
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Mate, really, percentages are not a matter of discussion, its just numbers which can be adjusted.
Basic difference between your point and mine is how Thana works:
When you have dead/sacrificed/dced survivor - your version applies constant debuff to all other survivors and its not good, especially dced part. I had numerous 3v1 games against Thana perk as surv and we managed to win pretty good part of them. Why should I have debuff for someone beeing ragequitter?
My version does what perk should do - slows the game, debuff is severe enough to be worth get rid of it and it totally in alive survivors control. You decide either you heal and remove it or work through it on gens.
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So just don't count DC's then?
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And dead, and sacrificed. And debuff dynamically grows when less ppl alive.
Tbh, i'm little confused, you seems can totally read and write in English, yet you dont see difference between our points of view at Thana, which are clearly seen. Don't see as offence, but I feel like you just prefer your own version, so just fooling around. I dont mind, keep yours, its your thread.
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Ah, I see what you are saying now, but to play devil's advocate, What's going to stop survivors from waiting out the timer? Wouldn't this cause more camping because the only useful thing survivors can do during BW is try to save their teammates?
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Well to be honest alot of what you've written has been in broken English. I didn't say that because I didn't want to be offensive. There have been many structural and grammatical errors which made it hard to understand what you were saying.
I understand your point on the perk though and I think it's a good idea.
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That is my one worry for this iteration of the perk.
How about if you hook someone before the gates are opened you can get the 60 second block on them and if you hook another person after the gates are open it blocks the exit like normal for 60 seconds.
So essentially the same perk we have now, but it can ALSO proc on the gate switches prior to them being opened as well. There would be no refreshing effect, just the possibility of once each.
120 seconds may sound like a lot, but keep in mind how situational it is. If you don't hook someone specifically in those time frames you may get absolutely nothing out of the perk and you were down a slot all game. You may also ONLY get a hook before or after the gates are open so you only get 60 seconds worth.
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I can start to write in my Native language, I doubt you will understand a word though. :)
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lol no I figured it wasn't your native language which is why I didn't say anything.
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I actually like Corrupt intervension the way it is i dont really think it needs to be changed and even the suggestion you posted is not really going to be that good id rather they keep corrupt the same maybe make it last a little longer other than that i think its fine.
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NOED <= Basekit
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If it was better more people would run it, they don't. There's a reason for this. The time it lasts is pretty irrelevant so even if they increased it to 3 minutes it would still be bad because the time it lasts isn't the issue. The time it lasts doesn't matter because good survivors will simply do nothing and wait it out. It essentially just keeps you in a waiting lobby for another 2 minutes before the game can actually start.
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I mean if they are waiting it out that means they are not doing anything that allows you ample time to find someone i run it and i think it works a lot more than people credit it for but again thats my opinion. It does its job which is to either force the survivors to waste time or run towards you i honestly like the perk as it is.
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"I mean if they are waiting it out that means they are not doing anything that allows you ample time to find someone"
This isn't the case. Against good survivors you aren't finding anyone if they aren't trying to do gens.
"force the survivors to waste time"
The time they waste here is irrelevant because the killer isn't gaining anything out of the time because he isn't finding anyone.
Yes you can find someone and make use of that time against potato survivors but I'm referencing if you're going against good survivors that know what they're doing. Finding survivors that are trying to do an objective is much easier than finding survivors not doing objectives that are just creeping around the outside of the map.
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If a survivor sees a blocked exit gate switch, then they will just leave right after they open the gates because they know the that the killer has Blood Warden. This effectively brings us back to 60 seconds while having the same problems in my previous comments.
Honestly, Blood Warden is really strong when it works out (as seen on the video). I know that looks like a very rare scenario, but keep in mind that survivors don't know that you have the perk until it activates.
How about this? This adds more consistency to the perk, which is the only I think is missing from it! :)
Blood Warden:
Death awaits for fleeing survivors. When at least one of the exit gates are opened, upon hooking a survivor, the Entity will block both exit gates until 40/50/60 seconds have elapsed within the collapse timer. Survivors cannot escape through the exit gates while they are blocked and they will have their auras revealed to the killer whenever they are within the exit gate area.
Take Note: I said "block both exit gates until 40/50/60 seconds have elapsed within the collapse timer"
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I think it's a good idea, just make it usable only when there are still 4 survs alive (maybe 3 too?) when the last gen is done. Otherwise it won't do anything.
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About NOED - stop trying to fix something that isnt broken. NOED is fine, its counterable and not that big of threat.
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Well technically isn't that the exact same thing? The perk can't even activate until the gates have been opened and the EGC has started, so its current 60 second timer and "until 40/50/60 seconds have elapsed within the collapse timer" are "almost" the same thing. The only difference being that its time would negate the slow down from a hooked or downed survivor.
That still wouldn't really prevent them from just hiding and that still leaves a lot of time on the EGC for it not to really matter much.
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Well I did mention that I don't think it's broken or OP at all. I just don't think it's healthy design.
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Adrenaline is not-healthy design. I had game with 2 guys on hook, 2 injured. I was chasing one while second finished gen. 2 healthy, 2 hooked. The guy whom I wasn't chasing unhooked both - both healthy. So from 2 hooks, 2 injured - 4 healthy in less then 30 seconds, hooks were close to each other. That is fkn not healthy.
You can't do same with NOED unless they jump on your weapon. NOED is counterable, it does not reward Killer for beeing bad, it just adds a bit of secondary objectives for survivors to consider.
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Well tbh i could see a small nerf to adrenaline being reasonable.
NOED gives killers kills because the survivors were lazy, not because they earned them. I personally think it gives undeserved kills and is a crutch which is why I don't use it. Maybe we just disagree and that's fine.
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You're right, regardless of the collapse timer being slown down or going at normal speed, Blood Warden will not deactivate until the collapse timer has 60 seconds less than than what it previously had when it activated . Therefore, once you hook someone while the collapse timer has less than 60 seconds, that's GG for any survivor remaining. This is what I want because currently, the Entity blocks both gates for 40/50/60 seconds and those 40/50/60 seconds might not even worth 40/50/60 seconds on the collapse timer. That's my only gripe because Blood Warden is supposed to be dangerous if you're greedy.
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I'll take whatever it can get. I don't think it would be enough of a buff to get any more people to use it though and that;s already an extremely low number. That scenario would be a GG for the remaining survivors but you'd see that happen once every maybe 20 games you run it, highly situational that actually happens.
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I'll add some spice to Blood Warden, but without increasing the blocking timer.
Blood Warden:
Death awaits for fleeing survivors. Upon hooking a survivor when at least one of the exit gates are open:
- The Entity will block both exit gates until 40/50/60 seconds have elapsed within the collapse timer. Survivors cannot escape through the exit gates while they are blocked.
- Survivors will reveal their auras to the killer while suffering from the exposed status effect until the Entity stops blocking the exit gates.
Alright, this perk should be pretty solid with these changes. The reason why I added free exposed and aura reading is to encourage the killer to not camp. Furthermore, the perk can serve two purposes: Sacrifice greedy survivors with the EGC or sacrifice greedy survivors with your immense strength.
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Woah that was a huge buff. People would definitely use that, but now you just made an even better NOED. There'd be no reason to run NOED when this is just better and without a counter on totems other than waiting it out. Survivors that have their aura revealed while within the gate area will be become afflicted with the Exposed status for 30 seconds.
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I agree with everything you said, except noed. I would go nuts if at least 3 buff/rework ideas went live. Monstrous shrine is my personal favorite.
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Sounds great! This should add some spice to Blood Warden!
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