The Reason why this Game is Survivor Sided
Disclaimer
Post was edited because... Lets be honest this game isn't fun for Killers, so I was pretty pissed at the time of creating the older one which was WAY SHORTER. But as for this post, we'll be going into my thoughts and some public opinions on why this game is still to this day Survivor Sided.
Also, i'm putting this here now cause i'm getting tired of seeing it. Yes, I know 2016 was way worse than 2019 (present day.) I know we shouldn't deny this, and I agree with that. This post is to discuss the here and now though, and the issues from 2016 that still exist to this day. So you have to keep that in mind...
Why Killer isn't fun anymore
Lets get into why Killer isn't inherently fun anymore, while this reflects Purple and Red ranks, it does not reflect Green ranks or below.
For one, loops. While I understand that this is a Survivors only way to really defend themselves, it isn't fun being looped around one pallet for 30 seconds each time. This can only be done by people who have gotten used to Survivor and are used to the spawns and mechanics of this game. While you won't find this much at Green ranks, you'll see this all the time at Purple and Red.
Survivors that know the layout of each map will use each pallet to the fullest, and if you're a Mid-Tier killer you're basically just done, you might as well eat the safe pallets because you can't mind-game or get around them. Which leads to another problem, the way the maps are designed you'll sometimes come across double pallets at very safe looping spots. For whatever reason, this is still in the game... And it shouldn't have made a major return in the first place. It was a headach to deal with this back in the day, so why was it brought back? Why take two steps back instead of one step forward? It doesn't really make a lot of sense now does it.
Another thing, MoM, I understand it is being re-purposed now, but the fact something like this got past BHVRs radar is shocking. The Perk itself has no counter, you can't power through it with a chainsaw, you can't Tier lll Myers it, you can't Pinky finger exposed it, you can't get past it. It is, by design, a free hit. Anyone who says otherwise either uses the perk regularly, or uses the perk because its being reworked, and want to make it worse for Killers than it already is.
Also another thing, combining all of that above will make generators fly by, but that'll be discussed further down in the post with its own section if you're interesting in reading.
Killers OP perks vs Survivors op perks
Now before anyone says it, yes, Killers have Noed, Ruin, Enduring, Spirit Fury, BBQ & Chili, Nurse's, etc. But when you think about it, all these perks can be negated. For one, Noed can be removed by simply just breaking totems before it even spawns, Ruin breaks within a minute of the game now, Enduring + Spirit Fury is only good on Billy and Leather Face, BBQ & Chili can be countered by lockers and being close to the hook now, and Nurse's only has a 24 meter range.
All these perks have a counter, as for Survivors only a few can be countered.
We have as stated above MoM, a free hit. Urban Evasion for Claudettes that like to sport brown clothes to make it even harder to find them because of the lighting difference for Killers and Survivors vision, DS which is now a tunneling perk but can be annoying when you're not even tunneling someone but it activates within the 60 seconds it has (But its still better than Pre-Patch DS so don't get mad over that), Balanced Landing which can't be countered, you just wait till its over and go after them, and with Maps like Lampkin Lane and the Crotus Asylum its a nightmare with their infinites, Borrow Time, which was nerfed but is still annoying to face during end-game especially with MoM active, Self Care, what can I say, Botany Knowledge + Self Care = Oof, and I won't mention Dead Hard cause you can bait it out... its just annoying is all.
All of this for Survivors though, could be negated if infinite's, multiple safe pallets, and MoM for end game and continuing said looping wasn't a thing. I know they're now finally shortening the loops for this game, but it shouldn't have taken 3 years to do this...
Killers Add-ons
I'm aware before anyone says it, "But Killers have Infantry Belt + Iridecent Heads, Pinky Finger, Insta-Chainsaw Billy, Infinite Tier lll Myers, Prayer Beads, etc." And yes, they have all these things. But how often do you normally see these things? Not often right? Why? Cause it doesn't reward you for playing Hyper aggressive and the intent to end the game as fast as possible. People DC over this for one, so most people don't use this stuff. Killers are aware of that, and so nobody uses them. And these things shouldn't exist in-general to be honest, but they do because of the current flaws in the design of this game. And I don't even need to mention this but, most if not all of these combos are Ultra Rare Offerings, and you don't see them often if at all for several blood-webs.
Sounds and Scratch-marks
Do I even need to say it? Still broken, still misleading. I don't understand why with the new lighting and engine they brought awhile back is this stuff STILL BROKEN.
Like it makes chases really hard to follow with how it currently is, everything is inconsistent or in-general doesn't work correctly... This seriously needs to be addressed and updated with the current build we're on.
Map Design and why its a problem
Again, I know they're going to fix this now. But I don't understand why it took them this long to do it. Why did maps like Lampkin Lane, Badham Pre-School, The Game, Shelter Woods, ANY OF THE SWAMP MAPS, Some of the Cornfield maps, Crotus Asylum, etc have to exist? I don't understand the design choice for any of these maps, were they intentionally supposed to be Survivor Sided/Killer Sided? Or were these maps just rushed for the DLC? Cause I don't get it, and most of these maps have infinite's btw, and why is that? Why do infinite's still exist in 2019. And not to mention maps like Crotus Prenn Asylum with their safety infinite pallets... Like seriously, why? Why even.
Most of these maps are Survivor Sides though don't get me wrong, mostly all maps are Survivor sided if they have at least one infinite and 10+ safety pallets that're un-mind-gameable like the corn maps see-through walls, and Autohavens low walls that just require you to eat pallets. Like none of this is fun, why?
The Generator rushing crisis
Before any of you just click off this post, hear me out, seriously. While Generator rushing can be stopped by simple map pressure, most Mid-Tier Killers don't have inherent map pressure skills like Nurse, Spirit, or Billy. They require more forward thinking and mind-games to put down a Survivor. The problem is, with how the looping is in this game, and most of the loop spots in some maps being safety pallets, it just doesn't pose well for Killers.
Hell, even Billy can struggle sometimes if its a SWF, and even Spirit too. A Pro-Nurse not so much, but hey its a nurse were you expecting anything else? Its not fun playing or playing against her so...
The thing is, looping is such a huge problem in this game that it contributes to this current crisis we face. With no secondary objectives, or shorter loops, most generators get done within a few minutes of the game even starting. I think as people learn to play Survivor, they realize how easy it is to loop certain areas more, and as they learn this, they learn the tiles more effectively to the point that it gets ridiculous how easy it is to loop most Mid-Tier Killers.
The way maps, loops, and killers are currently designed doesn't actually favor killers... It more or less bully's their short comings except in the case of Killers that have powers that can work around this. But as we all know "We make fun Killers not OP killers" and to that I say, how is a Killer that has no capability's to get around the games current bad designs fun? It isn't fun playing Bully simulator every match because the devs are too scared of making the next Billy or Nurse, and we'll get into that part below.
"We make fun killers, not OP ones"
This mentality makes no sense, as stated at the end of the last section above, why is it "fun" to face badly designed maps and loops in a game that is so dependent on time? Like honestly, when was the last time any of you ever got bored of playing Nurse, Billy, or Spirit? or even all three in a session? Its not fun playing the same Killers that punish this bad map design, so why is it that the devs are so scared of making any more OP killers? We already have Nurse, if you want to destroy a team every match just "git gud" with her and there you go. its a bit too late to go back on that, its already established. You can nerf her in a way yeah, but we'll always have a really dominant killer over the rest.
So why is it such an issue to create any more "OP killers." Is it because you guys are scared of the backlash from the Survivor side of this community or something? I can understand that with Legion, but Legion wasn't OP... He was just annoying, and his design in-general was flawed from the start, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have been reworked or anything like that... Instead of burying your problems with nerfs, you could actually consider why things are the way they are and improve on them...
Conclusion
I understand before anyone even thinks about saying it again. I know they're reworking this FINALLY... But to let things get so bad to this point, I fear for anything they create in the future that makes it worse. MoM is proof of this, and anyone from BHVR should of seen this a mile away. But they didn't, and I'm not 100% sure why, but I have an idea...
If anything, this game deserves balance, this game is unique and really fun when everyone isn't sweating so hard over nothing. People in this community can be smart, forward thinking, fun to play, and even nice to talk to. Of course we have our toxicity but lets be honest, other games I've seen have had WAY WORSE community's... Lets not make this one be any different.
TL;DR
Loops are a problem in this game, I understand most things I talked about here are being fixed, but its reflecting on these things that will hopefully have us not repeat the mistakes of the past.
Certain maps, Perks, Add-ons, Most Loops, and Killers are and will be discussed here, so I suggest anyone who's reading the TL;DR to check any specific sections they're only interested in above.
Comments
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The post was massively edited, so enjoy the read if you're interested.
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Feel free to download 1.1/1.2 DBD and join me in a match.
The game has never been more balanced than it is now.
20 Second Sprint Bursts, 300% We’ll Make It (ability to heal at a pallet before the killer animation finished), 20 second heals, no gen regression, no ruin, no entity blockers, no bloodlust. Not so many bloodpoints earned so a lot less strong add one were able to be used. Double pallets everywhere, legit jungle gyms with 2 pallet and 2 windows, Cold Wind tree with 2 vaults and a pallet. The list goes on and on.
Anyone really complaining about DBD now truly baffles me.
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Spirit Fury and Enduring is just a strong combination of perks regardless of killer. It's especially needed for m1 killers as you're already expected to not respect palettes.
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While I agree with what you said for the most part,
This game is not solo survivor sided (as I said before), it is swf sided.
Solo survivors have the potential to "outplay"/ genrush any killer,but you can see this potential 1/50 games.
Some killers objectively need buffs,others QOL and a few of them are a bit too strong against 4 solo survs.
But first,I think we should close the gap between solo and SWF so we can start balancing killers around SWF.
Two ideas :
- let survs see other teammates loadouts in Lobby
-kindred basekit.
P.S. fix coldwind maps already
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@altruistic just because it was worse before, doesn't mean it's good now.
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@altruistic So the mistakes of the past shouldn't be corrected for the future? I'm not denying the game was way worse back then for Killers, but does it still need to be that way?
The game in comparison to back then is 10x better. That doesn't mean problems from the old days still don't exist, and shouldn't be ignored because of "Back in MY DAY" argument.
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True, but its real use shines with Billy and Leather Face. And lets be honest, most people consider that OP on Billy, but consider it necessary on Leather Face.
As for any other killer that uses it, it can be effective on every M1 Killer yeah, but for how specific some Killers are, its more or less outshined...
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@Andreyu44 Its not Solo survivor sided for sure, but if the game was designed around that it would be a lot better for people who don't have SWF to lean on for safety. Its rare to find a competent solo team, but with the right teammates it could be just as scary to face.
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I have about 1500 hours at most as a Killer since launch. I always played Survivor more, but I’ve played Killer since August 2016.
I can tell you right now, it’s never been easier to play as a killer. SWF can make the Game so challenging it feels impossible. But I never was great at Killer.
I pretty much stopped playing the game. From a friend of mine who mostly plays Killer, and also since launch. He says MoM is bs. Which I trust his judgment. Otherwise, the game is fine for a Killer. I just don’t enjoy playing Survivor anymore. It lost its fun for me.
People would rather complain than learn and take responsibility for their lack of game knowledge. That’s the problem I have.
They are changing loops, again by the way. This was a big talking point during their 3 year anniversary stream. MoM is also being changed. I never even bought Ashley so I never had the chance to use it.
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@altruistic Yes i'm aware of these changes as stated in the main post before I even talked about these problems.
But i'm trying to discuss this with people so similar mistakes never happen again, like lets be real since the game launched looping has been annoying. And even though Infinite's were like constant in 2016, it still shouldn't exist IN-GENERAL in 2019.
I can understand that compared to how it used to be, its a cake walk in comparison. Does that mean problems still don't exist from the past? No... These problems are still here since 2016 and should of been delt with long ago. This is more so a warning, it shouldn't ever be repeated for the sake of "balance" in this game.
Its laughable to think this game could ever be balanced, but for someone who looks out for both sides I want to see this be a thing. Its more fun to have both sides enjoy a match than one side dominant the other.
But for the sake of argument, yes, 2016 was way worse than 2019. This should never be denied.
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Some opinion on the Perks you mentioned:
NOED-->To be honest, cleansing Totems is not optimal at all. You spend the time running around to cleanse 5 Totems for a Perk the Killer might not have. And when you did one Totem, you basically have to do all Totems, because every second you spend on Dull Totems is wasted, when you dont to all Totems. I mean, I still do that, but still, it is not optimal.
(NOED can be changed in something different, OhTofu made a good suggestion. Removing the Hex-Status and let it activate after all Gens are done. Based on the Number of Hooks the Killer got, the effect will be stronger. He suggested like 0,5% MS per Hook and Insta-Downs after a specific Number...Which would be cool, because it would actually reward Killers who did well, but still did not manage to do enough and not those Killers, who did not get any Hooks the whole game and then get their 1-2 Kills because of NOED)
This is btw. the only Killer Perk I would call Bullshit. The rest is not OP at all. Good, but not OP.
Now the other Perks:
BBQ-->Mostly only because of BP-Gain. Aura-Read is fully useable on many Killers, and from the Meta Perks probably the one with the least Impact on Games.
Spirit Fury&Enduring-->Its not OP, but saying it only works on Billy and Leatherface is simply wrong. Basically every 115% MS M1-Killer can benefit from it. There might be other Builds possible, but going for those two Perks on M1-Killers is never a bad idea.
Nurses Calling-->Only 28 meters (not 24), yes. But it is mostly used on Killers with Small TR. And playing a Hag with M&A and Nurses is simply good, 16m TR and 28m Detection is great.
Ruin-->It is simply a lie that this Perk gets cleansed every time in 1 minute. Yeah, I spawned on Ruin in games. I also had Survivors spawn on my Ruin. But other than that, there were games where I had my Ruin full game. And in the end, I feel that many Killers think that Ruin means that they can focus 100% on chases, which is wrong. They still need to pressure Gens and they still need to look for their Totem. Its not like Ruin is blocking all the Gens until it is cleansed, but I feel some Killer Mains really think it is.
Now on the Survivor Perks:
MoM is strong, cannot disagree.
Urban Evasion-->Sounds good for stealthy people, but honestly, Killers can also be happy for people who stealth around with Urban Evasion, because those are most likely not effective.
DS--> Strong, but I wish it would be changed. Maybe let it last a shorter period of time, but remove slugging as a counter. If the Killer comes back to the Hook and smacks me on the ground after 10 seconds, he still tunneled, but can avoid the DS. On the other hand, if the Killer chases the Unhooker, hooks them, and then finds me and picks me up after 58 seconds from my Unhook, he did not tunnel, but still gets punished. Smaller amount of time for DS to trigger, but dont let it expire when slugged. (Dont know if 20 seconds sounds reasonable, but well)
BL-->Strong, broken on some few Maps, but also almost useless on others. I mean, when the only Drop Spot you have is a Hill, you would be probably better with DH.
Self Care-->Even with Botany, using Self Care is a waste of time.
Borrowed Time-->I think its an OK Perk. And honestly, you get farmed so often by BT-Guys. As a Killer, just follow the guy who just got unhooked and wait a little bit. You will get them, even with Borrowed. So yeah, dont worry, BT is not only bad for Killers.
Regarding "Gen Rush":
There is nothing else a Survivor can do. If you dont get chased, you need to do Gens. I mean, I am not a Gen Rusher, I also look for Chests or Totems, but if I want to be effective, I need to sit on a Gen. Therefore, the Term "Gen Rush" is simply stupid. If a Killer is bringing good Add Ons to have it easier, would you say he is "Kill Rushing"? You wouldnt.
Regarding Loops, there is also nothing a Survivor can do. If you want to remove Looping, you need to have WAY more Pallets. But thats something I am pretty sure most people will not understand. Lets say you have 10 Pallets on a Map and the ability to Loop. If you would remove the ability to loop, but the number of Pallets stays the same, this would not work. Pallets would be gone in like 2 minutes and then this is it. You would need to increase the Number of Pallets so that Survivors have enough time to get distance and to lose the Killer.
I mean, they will change some Loops so that they are shorter. And I am pretty sure that the Number of Pallets will increase because of this. And I can already imagine the outrage.
Regardiing MoM, just because I read it:
You can counter it with Chainsaws, EW3 Myers and Pinky Finger. If you down someone with Chainsaws 2 times, they will most likely not get MoM. If you down them with EW3 Myers two times, they will have only two stacks. Same for pinky Finger.
And if they are full Health and you down them with one of the above, it will not activate at all, because its not from Injured to Dying. Just because it just pops up while reading your post.
Regarding Fun Killers:
Maybe I am not the right person for this, but the only Killers I dont like to verse where pre-patch Legion and right now Plague. Plague most likely because people cleanse vs her (there need to be some change, yes, it should be mandatory to cleanse and Corrupt Purge should not be that strong in return).
But other than that, I dont mind to play vs Nurse, Billy, Spirit. If I have bad games, I will most likely use Items after a while, like Med-Kits and sometimes Insta-Heals. Like, two days ago, I lost 1 1/2 Levels, so I lust 8 pips or so in one evening, I started to bring Insta-Heals, just because of that. And I can get when Killers start to use the strong Stuff, just to have a better game than the one(s) before.
Playing as Killer, I dont have a problem with playing any Killer, even the weaker ones. I mean, I might be some kind of Masochist, but I like to play Leatherface and Trapper. But I dont expect good results in them, I dont expect constant 4Ks. And that is something I think many Killer players expect - constant 4Ks. You can also win with only having a 3K. You can at least Blackpip in other games, when you do well. I feel that people might need to accept that with weaker Killers, they will not get such good results. e.g. with Trapper, when you run a normal Build, you will have a difficult game. If you use the two Red Add-Ons, you will do better, yes. And in an ideal world, all Killers would have roughly the same strange, but this can only happen if ALL Killers get buffed/reworked and Nurse gets nerfed. And this is not gonna happen.
So yeah, when playing a weaker Killer, dont expect really strong games. If you start accepting this, it is easier.
TL;DR:
I have too much freetime.
And in my opinion, DBD will NEVER be completely balanced. You have:
Good Killers (Spirit, Nurse, Billy) vs Bad Killers (Trapper, Leatherface, Doctor)
SWF vs Solo Survivor
Good Perks (Ruin, MoM, DS, Adrenaline, BBQ, Spirit Fury/Enduring) vs Bad Perks (monstrous Shrine, overwhelming Presence, No One Left Behind, Sole Survivor)
RNG (Windows open or not open)
The current DBD is the closest to balance you can get. Just think of it as a game and enjoy it as much as possible, you cannot win all games. And dont be salty in End Game Chat, it is always cool to meet some nice people out there, who give you credit, even when they did not get any Kills or when you beat them and they got sacrificed.
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I disagree. Killer is inherently fun, it's just that the balance at the top when it comes to looping mechanics makes top tier survivors hard to catch.
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@Aven_Fallen Ruin literally breaks for me every match within 1 minute, 2 if i'm lucky. In 50 matches, only 5 times or so did it stay up for more than 1 or 2 minutes, mainly cause the spawn it had was the best on those specific maps.
You can't also say "That's just you" also, cause nothing is different for me, it chooses what awful totem spawns there are, goes to it, and breaks. It has nothing to do with if people spawn on it, people just memorize its positions now.
As for Generator rushing, yes its their only objective to do. But the fact loops are so terrible still, and the amount of time it takes to down someone who can effectively use them, will more times than not lose you 2 generators in the process. If you're lucky, you can get someone who is bad on their team and get chain downs with that. Regardless, the loops will be changed to fit what you said above, their idea is to shorten the loops but spread more pallets out, which is a good idea (for once.)
As for urban evasion, I'm talking about this for Claudette who has a hard time being seen as is, and doesn't help that 90% of Claudettes use brown clothes or P3 clothes.
As for MoM, i'm talking when you don't always have these on deck, you won't always Tier lll someone who has MoM, you don't even know if they have it till its too late anyways, you won't always chainsaw someone, as for clowns pinky finger its kind of a vocal point, so that ones a pass.
The fact we have Killer tiers makes no sense either, all Killers should be well designed to work with certain maps. Having weaker killers just makes people play them less, its a weird design choice. They shouldn't all be OP, but they shouldn't all have dominant roles that makes one Killer more important than the rest of the roster.
As for the rest of this, I can agree. Some of these perks are good in situational scenarios. But also on most Killers they benefit as well.
As for Survivor perks, some of them are not as broken as I said, but in what people use them for is what makes them broken. That was the point I was trying to get across.
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@Mochan It makes top-tier survivors almost impossible in some scenarios. Give a really good looper MoM, DS, BT, DH, with a flashlight and r.i.p. you. All because most maps are horrible designed and rely on safety pallets to make up for it.
Killer isn't as fun as you think it is, play Red Rank for 50 matches with any Mid-Tier Killer, tell me how it goes.
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@FireHazard while you make some good points, ive got afew disagreements. You mentioned OP addons for killers. Most of the red addons have serious dowsides to them.
- Infinite T3 Myers is only Infinite after he finally manages to activate it, while a myers without any addons would have already gotten to use their T3 at least twice already.
- Iri head removes the amount of available hatchets by 4. While this can be softened abit by using infintry belt with it, that also means your throwing them with the same charge speed as if you had no addons at all, giving the survivor your throwing at plenty of time to respond and find cover. Realisticly, if the huntress was skilled enough to beam you with a hatchet using those 2 addons, they probably wouldve done it just fine twice using charge speed addons instead since they open up more spots that you can get a hatchet primed to throw mid chase around loops.
- Clowns pinky finger requires him to peg you with a slow moving projectile and follow that up with a melee strike immediately after... Do I need to say more? Ill ggo more into this if you want.
- "instasaw" i feel is just a joke really using "insta" as a trigger work. At most, youre removing 36% of the charge rate by combining 2 charge addons. I didnt know a saw can be considered "insta" if its still got 64% of its charge time. Thats like saying anyone who heals with botony knowledge is "instahealing".
I wont go into the other red addons atm, but will if asked. I DO agree that prayer beads is BS though and needs to be looked at.
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@LordGlint My rebuttal to this, I may agree with some things, others not so much.
- Tier lll Infinite Myers is actually easier to pull off than you think, its quite simple to stalk Survivors when you main him like I do. Its not hard to stalk individual Survivors for all their worth before moving onto the next Survivor, who for all they know I might not even be near them... But maybe I am, but from afar as the range to stalk seems to be better now.
- Its as easy as baiting them to dodge, its not hard to mind-game them with iri head hatchets. Most Survivors will dodge right before the base throw, giving you the right insight to wait until the right turn, or even when they actually know the timing TO turn. Its simple muscle memory, and for people like me who P3-50'ed her, its not that hard. While people who are good with her can just not use those Add-ons, the idea of this post was to point out that those add-ons shouldn't really exist in the first place.
- Go more into clowns, as i'm not really invested into him yet. I haven't P3-50'ed or even P1'ed him, so I have no real history using him besides knowing his add-ons and the general idea on how to use him. If you've used Huntress (Which I have, I P3-50'ed her) than you'll know its basically like her except instead of a straight shot, its a arcing bottle that you can make into a straight shot by looking down a bit.
- Its just a term people use to describe having Tuning Guide + Primer Bulb. That's all it really is, and as such I called it that as well. If you call it "Insta-Chainsaw" people will know exactly what you're talking about.
Also, feel free to go into the other add-ons if you feel like it. Its entirely up to you.
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With killers perks you can't be repairing, healing, cleansing or doing anything and not being seen. So, the only thing we can do is looping. I'm very bad at looping and I prefer to play hidden, but it's almost impossible
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@prayer_survivor The problem isn't pallets don't get me wrong, i'm not an entitled killer main begging for so many Survivor nerfs for GG EZ games.
The problem is that there are too many safe loops in a map, and too many infinite's that still exist. They're fixing this though, by adding smaller loops around maps, but there will be more pallets to make up for this. Its one of their best ideas in awhile.
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If you get rid of loops, get rid of scratch marks.
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@darktrix That's not the point I was trying to make. Loops shouldn't be removed, the problem is the 10+ safe pallets that come with every map. The way they're going to do it in the future updates is break up the safe pallets into smaller loops to prevent very long chases, but to make up for it they'll add more smaller loops around the map.
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The problem is that nowadays most of the people in DbD and in this forum are no veterans, so they can't compare the state about 3 years ago and the current one. Else they would realize how "ez" killer gameplay actually is now. But we all know it's a neverending story.
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Thank you for the detailed feedback. I'll try to go into detail on the pallet bits because I can see that's a recurring theme here.
Right now, we're working on changing the way pallets and their loops spawn. The current system just plops down pallets in valid positions without taking into consideration how strong they are. This can feel wildly different from round to round. You might get a bunch of unsafe pallets one match and then get nothing but safe pallets the next. With the map reworks coming up, pallets are going to be generated based on their strength. You might have more pallets overall, but they will be much less safe and possible to mindgame. Or you might have fewer but safer pallets. Overall it should feel much more even and less RNG dependent.
Regarding double pallets specifically: This is caused by the pallet spawning system as well, though this isn't necessarily unintended. A while back we made some changes to the spawning system so pallets would be more evenly distributed across the map. Rather than having a dozen pallets clustered on one side, making it incredibly safe, they were spread out so specific areas because riskier for the survivors after they used the pallets. To do this, the game will only spawn pallets as long as they are not within a certain distance of one another.
Each map has a range of pallets (minimum and maximum pallet count). If the minimum number of pallets for that map has not been reached and there are no more valid pallet spawning locations, the game will then break the rules and spawn the remaining pallet(s) wherever it can. This is why you might rarely get a double pallet. The silver lining is that when this happens, you have the absolute minimum number of pallets for that map.
This is something we're actively working on and should be much better going forward.
Regarding the last bit: We do not design killers just for fun. Power is also taken into consideration. The two are not mutually exclusive. The hillbilly is a good example of that, they are both fun to play as and against while still being powerful. Overpowered is a bit of a stretch; that would by definition mean that it's too powerful. The goal is always to make something powerful and fun. As we've done in the past, we're going to be looking at some of the weaker killers and looking into how we can change them to make them more competitive. Freddy is next up with a complete rework coming with the mid-chapter update.
Gonna' wrap it up here because this is turning into a novel, but for a TL;DR, we're looking into just about all of this already. Bear with us.
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Yep killer is fun at rank 20 but after that survivors aren't dumb and clueless you know?
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"I'm aware before anyone says it, "But Killers have Infantry Belt + Iridecent Heads, Pinky Finger, Insta-Chainsaw Billy, Infinite Tier lll Myers, Prayer Beads, etc." And yes, they have all these things. But how often do you normally see these things? Not often right? "
This right here suggests to me that you don't play survivor at red ranks. You will literally see this stuff every game. The games where you do not see it are more rare than when you do.
Also some of this stuff is not actually "the best" for that killer. Babushka + Braid > Iri Head + Belt. Tombstone Piece > Inf Tier 3. Flask of Bleach + Ether > Pinky Finger. You also fail to mention Nurse omega blinks, which I see almost every Nurse run at red ranks nowadays.
So yes, in a way you are technically correct that you don't see some of these particular add-ons every game. But you will see killers using their strongest add-ons 9 games out of 10 at the highest ranks.
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I'm aware of the state of 2016 DBD vs now, and I wasn't even there. I know how hard it was compared to now, but despite this, problems from 2016 still exist today. That's the issue here, i'm not arguing that the 2016 wasn't harder than present 2019. I'm arguing that mistakes and bad designs like these shouldn't ever be repeated.
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No, I'm a killer main so I don't see how often it is. But the times I do play Survivor which when I do its usually 20 matches or more, I rarely see these add-on combos. I'm referring to the OP add-ons also, i'm not talking about Killers best add-on combos. That's completely different from what i'm trying to get across.
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Oh i'm aware of most of what you said already @Peanits I make sure to follow what devs say on these forums for some clarification on certain if not all subjects suggested here everyday. But thank you for re-clarifying it for this discussion so people are more aware!
What this post is primarily for, is to focus on what makes killer currently not fun, and while changes are coming to fix this issue (finally) this is more so a warning to not follow in the mistakes of the past, its better to move forward for balance. (That wasn't a threat btw, even though it sounded like one lmao)
But its nice to know you guys are at least listening to these problems, what you do with it after though is up to you guys.
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Alright, it's not good now, it's even better now. The problem why DbD nowadays feels unfair or unbalanced in some cases is that too many tryhards, "competitive" and experienced players exist. In the early DbD days those players literally didn't exist at all, almost everyone was new and unexperienced and was immersed af. Players just keep getting used to everything through the years and there will always be ways to play optimally.
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Man, off-topic for a second though. The way you explain that sounds like fun to play if I was around in 2016...
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Play just solo survivor for a few weeks. You will think everyone is dumb and clueless no matter the rank.
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Tru3ta1ent is playing dbd since release and he still thinks this game is survivor sided.
Inb4 he is a bad killer.
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I meant to post this along with my other message but I completely forgot, but on the topic of maps, I figured this would be relevant:
That's the average survival rate per map. There's definitely some maps that are higher than others, but the overall range is between ~39.22% and ~53.60%. Not an insignificant difference, but not massively unfair for one side or the other. I'll let y'all take a look and do with it what you will.
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But you are talking about killers using their most powerful add-ons. Most powerful does not always mean pink or purple add-ons. It just means the MOST EFFECTIVE. Instasaw Billy is his strongest add-ons, but not the rarest. You see the STRONGEST add-on combos very frequently at high ranks.
Subjective. I have a smurf account that I play for fun where I let survivors live and let killers kill me (unless I have an escape daily). It's fun for a short time but if you are good at the game, playing against rank 20's gets boring pretty quick. It's like playing a toddler in COD, it's not a challenge.
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@thesuicidefox Regardless, what I was focusing on was the ones that're considered the most annoying to face. But I understand what you mean by the effectiveness of some combos vs its ultra rare counterparts.
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"it isn't fun being looped around one pallet for 30 seconds each time."
"Enduring + Spirit Fury is only good on Billy and Leather Face"
"like the corn maps see-through walls"
with comments like these, i feel like u dont have a lot of experience or play very well in your matches, so i'd like to recommend you this video, as most loops dont last nearly that long https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8u0jRxN2kQ
not to mention some of the perks u mentioned arent op in any way, such as borrowed, ds, nurses, or ruin, you can play around all of these, completely avoiding them in your matches.
u do make some good points tho, like how some maps are designed horribly, ######### like the crotus pren building or the ironworks window still existing is crazy to me.
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It actually isn’t much different at green ranks lately.
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you are just ranting dude, MoM doesn't even activate if you arent hit by the m1 which is like every meta killer except for the nurse which is just on another level.
Just try to counter the DS, let them slug a bit, apply that pressure and you are ok.
its not like the game should be press m1 and win because reasons.
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THE REASON WHY THIS GAME IS NOT SURVIVOR SIDED -> NURSE
hehe but all other killers (besides spirit and billy) are bad, yeah
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Lmao bothany knowledge doesn't work with selfcare, but even if it worked, a medkit still heals faster
(some people is answering that yes, maybe I'm wrong but a med kit stills heals faster)
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@Angelicus23 don’t spread misinformation, I’ve used this combo and timed it, it cuts off a good portion of your sc.
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Forgot to mention that you complained about genrush, but no killer main mentioned before that ghostface and the last 5 killes brings one perk to counter gens 🙄🤔
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But I can cleanse ruin.🤔
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I should try it too now, but a medkit stills heals faster, because that combo must be like 73% of speed
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It DOES work. BK affects all healing.
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I mentioned pop goes the weasel, discordance, plague's, the ghostface's one, surveilance and haunted grounds which combines with ruin and thrill of the hunt
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Discordance:don’t do gens together
corrupt intervention:hide
Spirit Fury:drop the pallet early
Rancor:Easy to fake leave the area I screamed in
Haunted grounds :Hide
PGTW:This perk doesn’t actually work that well, especially not on low mobility killers.
(I can’t remember who came before clown.
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Discordance: dont make gens together so the killer finds one of you easier and you last more time to make gens
Corrupt intervention: hide, and lose time of the match not reparing
Not mentioned the two followings
Haunted grounds you can't hide with thrill of the hunt and sometimes helps you in the middle of a chase (even if they hide, they lose more time, more time spent not reparing)
Pgtw: just got buffed
Surveilance: you know if someone is reparing of a checked gen
You use as an argument nt that survivors counters many perks hiding, but if they hide, they dont repare
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Most people hide during corrupt, an optimal team are all doing different gens, PGTW change isn’t live yet, ignore totems if that is a problem(unless DH is in play, the killer can only be in one place at a time so surveillance Isn’t guaranteed to work.
All those perks are locked behind a paywall btw.
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Emmmm surveillance consists in that the gen changes the color if someone works on it after you leave, then you know someone was still there and you avoid a gen that could be done if you just left.
Btw I said anything about totems and devour hope. If you felt free to say that, I feel free to say that you can counter healing with perks like nurse's calling and clowndophobia (I think it's called) which can be conmbined with the perk that makes terror radious larger.
All those perks can be bought by the shrine of secrets, no need to buy the killers or the DLCs, which the thruth is that is better to buy the DLC as I did.
I consider myself survivor main, but trust me that I spend more time and even get higher rank as killer every month and I perfectly know how it feels to be looped, genrushed, flashlighted and tbagged. I just don't care about all that, I don't complain, just get the kills I can, get the fun I can and search a new match.
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Shrine is rng, I want survivors to heal since they waste time doing so.
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