The second iteration of 2v8 is now LIVE - find out more information here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/480-2v8-developer-update
Xbox and Windows Store players may have difficulty in matchmaking due to an issue affecting their platforms. Please check https://support.xbox.com/en-CA/xbox-live-status for more information. Thank you.

The Reason why this Game is Survivor Sided

FireHazard
FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
edited June 2019 in General Discussions

Disclaimer

Post was edited because... Lets be honest this game isn't fun for Killers, so I was pretty pissed at the time of creating the older one which was WAY SHORTER. But as for this post, we'll be going into my thoughts and some public opinions on why this game is still to this day Survivor Sided.

Also, i'm putting this here now cause i'm getting tired of seeing it. Yes, I know 2016 was way worse than 2019 (present day.) I know we shouldn't deny this, and I agree with that. This post is to discuss the here and now though, and the issues from 2016 that still exist to this day. So you have to keep that in mind...

Why Killer isn't fun anymore

Lets get into why Killer isn't inherently fun anymore, while this reflects Purple and Red ranks, it does not reflect Green ranks or below.

For one, loops. While I understand that this is a Survivors only way to really defend themselves, it isn't fun being looped around one pallet for 30 seconds each time. This can only be done by people who have gotten used to Survivor and are used to the spawns and mechanics of this game. While you won't find this much at Green ranks, you'll see this all the time at Purple and Red.

Survivors that know the layout of each map will use each pallet to the fullest, and if you're a Mid-Tier killer you're basically just done, you might as well eat the safe pallets because you can't mind-game or get around them. Which leads to another problem, the way the maps are designed you'll sometimes come across double pallets at very safe looping spots. For whatever reason, this is still in the game... And it shouldn't have made a major return in the first place. It was a headach to deal with this back in the day, so why was it brought back? Why take two steps back instead of one step forward? It doesn't really make a lot of sense now does it.

Another thing, MoM, I understand it is being re-purposed now, but the fact something like this got past BHVRs radar is shocking. The Perk itself has no counter, you can't power through it with a chainsaw, you can't Tier lll Myers it, you can't Pinky finger exposed it, you can't get past it. It is, by design, a free hit. Anyone who says otherwise either uses the perk regularly, or uses the perk because its being reworked, and want to make it worse for Killers than it already is.

Also another thing, combining all of that above will make generators fly by, but that'll be discussed further down in the post with its own section if you're interesting in reading.

Killers OP perks vs Survivors op perks

Now before anyone says it, yes, Killers have Noed, Ruin, Enduring, Spirit Fury, BBQ & Chili, Nurse's, etc. But when you think about it, all these perks can be negated. For one, Noed can be removed by simply just breaking totems before it even spawns, Ruin breaks within a minute of the game now, Enduring + Spirit Fury is only good on Billy and Leather Face, BBQ & Chili can be countered by lockers and being close to the hook now, and Nurse's only has a 24 meter range.

All these perks have a counter, as for Survivors only a few can be countered.

We have as stated above MoM, a free hit. Urban Evasion for Claudettes that like to sport brown clothes to make it even harder to find them because of the lighting difference for Killers and Survivors vision, DS which is now a tunneling perk but can be annoying when you're not even tunneling someone but it activates within the 60 seconds it has (But its still better than Pre-Patch DS so don't get mad over that), Balanced Landing which can't be countered, you just wait till its over and go after them, and with Maps like Lampkin Lane and the Crotus Asylum its a nightmare with their infinites, Borrow Time, which was nerfed but is still annoying to face during end-game especially with MoM active, Self Care, what can I say, Botany Knowledge + Self Care = Oof, and I won't mention Dead Hard cause you can bait it out... its just annoying is all.

All of this for Survivors though, could be negated if infinite's, multiple safe pallets, and MoM for end game and continuing said looping wasn't a thing. I know they're now finally shortening the loops for this game, but it shouldn't have taken 3 years to do this...

Killers Add-ons

I'm aware before anyone says it, "But Killers have Infantry Belt + Iridecent Heads, Pinky Finger, Insta-Chainsaw Billy, Infinite Tier lll Myers, Prayer Beads, etc." And yes, they have all these things. But how often do you normally see these things? Not often right? Why? Cause it doesn't reward you for playing Hyper aggressive and the intent to end the game as fast as possible. People DC over this for one, so most people don't use this stuff. Killers are aware of that, and so nobody uses them. And these things shouldn't exist in-general to be honest, but they do because of the current flaws in the design of this game. And I don't even need to mention this but, most if not all of these combos are Ultra Rare Offerings, and you don't see them often if at all for several blood-webs.

Sounds and Scratch-marks

Do I even need to say it? Still broken, still misleading. I don't understand why with the new lighting and engine they brought awhile back is this stuff STILL BROKEN.

Like it makes chases really hard to follow with how it currently is, everything is inconsistent or in-general doesn't work correctly... This seriously needs to be addressed and updated with the current build we're on.

Map Design and why its a problem

Again, I know they're going to fix this now. But I don't understand why it took them this long to do it. Why did maps like Lampkin Lane, Badham Pre-School, The Game, Shelter Woods, ANY OF THE SWAMP MAPS, Some of the Cornfield maps, Crotus Asylum, etc have to exist? I don't understand the design choice for any of these maps, were they intentionally supposed to be Survivor Sided/Killer Sided? Or were these maps just rushed for the DLC? Cause I don't get it, and most of these maps have infinite's btw, and why is that? Why do infinite's still exist in 2019. And not to mention maps like Crotus Prenn Asylum with their safety infinite pallets... Like seriously, why? Why even.

Most of these maps are Survivor Sides though don't get me wrong, mostly all maps are Survivor sided if they have at least one infinite and 10+ safety pallets that're un-mind-gameable like the corn maps see-through walls, and Autohavens low walls that just require you to eat pallets. Like none of this is fun, why?

The Generator rushing crisis

Before any of you just click off this post, hear me out, seriously. While Generator rushing can be stopped by simple map pressure, most Mid-Tier Killers don't have inherent map pressure skills like Nurse, Spirit, or Billy. They require more forward thinking and mind-games to put down a Survivor. The problem is, with how the looping is in this game, and most of the loop spots in some maps being safety pallets, it just doesn't pose well for Killers.

Hell, even Billy can struggle sometimes if its a SWF, and even Spirit too. A Pro-Nurse not so much, but hey its a nurse were you expecting anything else? Its not fun playing or playing against her so...

The thing is, looping is such a huge problem in this game that it contributes to this current crisis we face. With no secondary objectives, or shorter loops, most generators get done within a few minutes of the game even starting. I think as people learn to play Survivor, they realize how easy it is to loop certain areas more, and as they learn this, they learn the tiles more effectively to the point that it gets ridiculous how easy it is to loop most Mid-Tier Killers.

The way maps, loops, and killers are currently designed doesn't actually favor killers... It more or less bully's their short comings except in the case of Killers that have powers that can work around this. But as we all know "We make fun Killers not OP killers" and to that I say, how is a Killer that has no capability's to get around the games current bad designs fun? It isn't fun playing Bully simulator every match because the devs are too scared of making the next Billy or Nurse, and we'll get into that part below.

"We make fun killers, not OP ones"

This mentality makes no sense, as stated at the end of the last section above, why is it "fun" to face badly designed maps and loops in a game that is so dependent on time? Like honestly, when was the last time any of you ever got bored of playing Nurse, Billy, or Spirit? or even all three in a session? Its not fun playing the same Killers that punish this bad map design, so why is it that the devs are so scared of making any more OP killers? We already have Nurse, if you want to destroy a team every match just "git gud" with her and there you go. its a bit too late to go back on that, its already established. You can nerf her in a way yeah, but we'll always have a really dominant killer over the rest.

So why is it such an issue to create any more "OP killers." Is it because you guys are scared of the backlash from the Survivor side of this community or something? I can understand that with Legion, but Legion wasn't OP... He was just annoying, and his design in-general was flawed from the start, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have been reworked or anything like that... Instead of burying your problems with nerfs, you could actually consider why things are the way they are and improve on them...

Conclusion

I understand before anyone even thinks about saying it again. I know they're reworking this FINALLY... But to let things get so bad to this point, I fear for anything they create in the future that makes it worse. MoM is proof of this, and anyone from BHVR should of seen this a mile away. But they didn't, and I'm not 100% sure why, but I have an idea...

If anything, this game deserves balance, this game is unique and really fun when everyone isn't sweating so hard over nothing. People in this community can be smart, forward thinking, fun to play, and even nice to talk to. Of course we have our toxicity but lets be honest, other games I've seen have had WAY WORSE community's... Lets not make this one be any different.

TL;DR

Loops are a problem in this game, I understand most things I talked about here are being fixed, but its reflecting on these things that will hopefully have us not repeat the mistakes of the past.

Certain maps, Perks, Add-ons, Most Loops, and Killers are and will be discussed here, so I suggest anyone who's reading the TL;DR to check any specific sections they're only interested in above.

Post edited by FireHazard on
«1

Comments

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314

    The post was massively edited, so enjoy the read if you're interested.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519109#Comment_519109

    True, but its real use shines with Billy and Leather Face. And lets be honest, most people consider that OP on Billy, but consider it necessary on Leather Face.

    As for any other killer that uses it, it can be effective on every M1 Killer yeah, but for how specific some Killers are, its more or less outshined...

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519111#Comment_519111

    @Andreyu44 Its not Solo survivor sided for sure, but if the game was designed around that it would be a lot better for people who don't have SWF to lean on for safety. Its rare to find a competent solo team, but with the right teammates it could be just as scary to face.

  • Mochan
    Mochan Member Posts: 2,886

    I disagree. Killer is inherently fun, it's just that the balance at the top when it comes to looping mechanics makes top tier survivors hard to catch.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519150#Comment_519150

    @Aven_Fallen Ruin literally breaks for me every match within 1 minute, 2 if i'm lucky. In 50 matches, only 5 times or so did it stay up for more than 1 or 2 minutes, mainly cause the spawn it had was the best on those specific maps.

    You can't also say "That's just you" also, cause nothing is different for me, it chooses what awful totem spawns there are, goes to it, and breaks. It has nothing to do with if people spawn on it, people just memorize its positions now.

    As for Generator rushing, yes its their only objective to do. But the fact loops are so terrible still, and the amount of time it takes to down someone who can effectively use them, will more times than not lose you 2 generators in the process. If you're lucky, you can get someone who is bad on their team and get chain downs with that. Regardless, the loops will be changed to fit what you said above, their idea is to shorten the loops but spread more pallets out, which is a good idea (for once.)

    As for urban evasion, I'm talking about this for Claudette who has a hard time being seen as is, and doesn't help that 90% of Claudettes use brown clothes or P3 clothes.

    As for MoM, i'm talking when you don't always have these on deck, you won't always Tier lll someone who has MoM, you don't even know if they have it till its too late anyways, you won't always chainsaw someone, as for clowns pinky finger its kind of a vocal point, so that ones a pass.

    The fact we have Killer tiers makes no sense either, all Killers should be well designed to work with certain maps. Having weaker killers just makes people play them less, its a weird design choice. They shouldn't all be OP, but they shouldn't all have dominant roles that makes one Killer more important than the rest of the roster.

    As for the rest of this, I can agree. Some of these perks are good in situational scenarios. But also on most Killers they benefit as well.

    As for Survivor perks, some of them are not as broken as I said, but in what people use them for is what makes them broken. That was the point I was trying to get across.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519177#Comment_519177

    @Mochan It makes top-tier survivors almost impossible in some scenarios. Give a really good looper MoM, DS, BT, DH, with a flashlight and r.i.p. you. All because most maps are horrible designed and rely on safety pallets to make up for it.

    Killer isn't as fun as you think it is, play Red Rank for 50 matches with any Mid-Tier Killer, tell me how it goes.

  • LordGlint
    LordGlint Member Posts: 8,505

    @FireHazard while you make some good points, ive got afew disagreements. You mentioned OP addons for killers. Most of the red addons have serious dowsides to them.

    1. Infinite T3 Myers is only Infinite after he finally manages to activate it, while a myers without any addons would have already gotten to use their T3 at least twice already.
    2. Iri head removes the amount of available hatchets by 4. While this can be softened abit by using infintry belt with it, that also means your throwing them with the same charge speed as if you had no addons at all, giving the survivor your throwing at plenty of time to respond and find cover. Realisticly, if the huntress was skilled enough to beam you with a hatchet using those 2 addons, they probably wouldve done it just fine twice using charge speed addons instead since they open up more spots that you can get a hatchet primed to throw mid chase around loops.
    3. Clowns pinky finger requires him to peg you with a slow moving projectile and follow that up with a melee strike immediately after... Do I need to say more? Ill ggo more into this if you want.
    4. "instasaw" i feel is just a joke really using "insta" as a trigger work. At most, youre removing 36% of the charge rate by combining 2 charge addons. I didnt know a saw can be considered "insta" if its still got 64% of its charge time. Thats like saying anyone who heals with botony knowledge is "instahealing".

    I wont go into the other red addons atm, but will if asked. I DO agree that prayer beads is BS though and needs to be looked at.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314

    @LordGlint My rebuttal to this, I may agree with some things, others not so much.

    1. Tier lll Infinite Myers is actually easier to pull off than you think, its quite simple to stalk Survivors when you main him like I do. Its not hard to stalk individual Survivors for all their worth before moving onto the next Survivor, who for all they know I might not even be near them... But maybe I am, but from afar as the range to stalk seems to be better now.
    2. Its as easy as baiting them to dodge, its not hard to mind-game them with iri head hatchets. Most Survivors will dodge right before the base throw, giving you the right insight to wait until the right turn, or even when they actually know the timing TO turn. Its simple muscle memory, and for people like me who P3-50'ed her, its not that hard. While people who are good with her can just not use those Add-ons, the idea of this post was to point out that those add-ons shouldn't really exist in the first place.
    3. Go more into clowns, as i'm not really invested into him yet. I haven't P3-50'ed or even P1'ed him, so I have no real history using him besides knowing his add-ons and the general idea on how to use him. If you've used Huntress (Which I have, I P3-50'ed her) than you'll know its basically like her except instead of a straight shot, its a arcing bottle that you can make into a straight shot by looking down a bit.
    4. Its just a term people use to describe having Tuning Guide + Primer Bulb. That's all it really is, and as such I called it that as well. If you call it "Insta-Chainsaw" people will know exactly what you're talking about.

    Also, feel free to go into the other add-ons if you feel like it. Its entirely up to you.

  • prayer_survivor
    prayer_survivor Member Posts: 626

    With killers perks you can't be repairing, healing, cleansing or doing anything and not being seen. So, the only thing we can do is looping. I'm very bad at looping and I prefer to play hidden, but it's almost impossible

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519327#Comment_519327

    @prayer_survivor The problem isn't pallets don't get me wrong, i'm not an entitled killer main begging for so many Survivor nerfs for GG EZ games.

    The problem is that there are too many safe loops in a map, and too many infinite's that still exist. They're fixing this though, by adding smaller loops around maps, but there will be more pallets to make up for this. Its one of their best ideas in awhile.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519422#Comment_519422

    @darktrix That's not the point I was trying to make. Loops shouldn't be removed, the problem is the 10+ safe pallets that come with every map. The way they're going to do it in the future updates is break up the safe pallets into smaller loops to prevent very long chases, but to make up for it they'll add more smaller loops around the map.

  • megdonalds
    megdonalds Member Posts: 742
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519108#Comment_519108

    The problem is that nowadays most of the people in DbD and in this forum are no veterans, so they can't compare the state about 3 years ago and the current one. Else they would realize how "ez" killer gameplay actually is now. But we all know it's a neverending story.

  • Mellow7
    Mellow7 Member Posts: 793
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519177#Comment_519177

    Yep killer is fun at rank 20 but after that survivors aren't dumb and clueless you know?

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
    edited June 2019
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519443#Comment_519443

    I'm aware of the state of 2016 DBD vs now, and I wasn't even there. I know how hard it was compared to now, but despite this, problems from 2016 still exist today. That's the issue here, i'm not arguing that the 2016 wasn't harder than present 2019. I'm arguing that mistakes and bad designs like these shouldn't ever be repeated.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519464#Comment_519464

    No, I'm a killer main so I don't see how often it is. But the times I do play Survivor which when I do its usually 20 matches or more, I rarely see these add-on combos. I'm referring to the OP add-ons also, i'm not talking about Killers best add-on combos. That's completely different from what i'm trying to get across.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
    edited June 2019
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519460#Comment_519460

    Oh i'm aware of most of what you said already @Peanits I make sure to follow what devs say on these forums for some clarification on certain if not all subjects suggested here everyday. But thank you for re-clarifying it for this discussion so people are more aware!

    What this post is primarily for, is to focus on what makes killer currently not fun, and while changes are coming to fix this issue (finally) this is more so a warning to not follow in the mistakes of the past, its better to move forward for balance. (That wasn't a threat btw, even though it sounded like one lmao)

    But its nice to know you guys are at least listening to these problems, what you do with it after though is up to you guys.

  • megdonalds
    megdonalds Member Posts: 742
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519115#Comment_519115

    Alright, it's not good now, it's even better now. The problem why DbD nowadays feels unfair or unbalanced in some cases is that too many tryhards, "competitive" and experienced players exist. In the early DbD days those players literally didn't exist at all, almost everyone was new and unexperienced and was immersed af. Players just keep getting used to everything through the years and there will always be ways to play optimally.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519504#Comment_519504

    Man, off-topic for a second though. The way you explain that sounds like fun to play if I was around in 2016...

  • Judith
    Judith Member Posts: 819
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519443#Comment_519443

    Tru3ta1ent is playing dbd since release and he still thinks this game is survivor sided.

    Inb4 he is a bad killer.

  • thesuicidefox
    thesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,223
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519488#Comment_519488

    But you are talking about killers using their most powerful add-ons. Most powerful does not always mean pink or purple add-ons. It just means the MOST EFFECTIVE. Instasaw Billy is his strongest add-ons, but not the rarest. You see the STRONGEST add-on combos very frequently at high ranks.

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519463#Comment_519463

    Subjective. I have a smurf account that I play for fun where I let survivors live and let killers kill me (unless I have an escape daily). It's fun for a short time but if you are good at the game, playing against rank 20's gets boring pretty quick. It's like playing a toddler in COD, it's not a challenge.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314

    @thesuicidefox Regardless, what I was focusing on was the ones that're considered the most annoying to face. But I understand what you mean by the effectiveness of some combos vs its ultra rare counterparts.

  • artist
    artist Member Posts: 1,519

    "it isn't fun being looped around one pallet for 30 seconds each time."

    "Enduring + Spirit Fury is only good on Billy and Leather Face"

    "like the corn maps see-through walls"

    with comments like these, i feel like u dont have a lot of experience or play very well in your matches, so i'd like to recommend you this video, as most loops dont last nearly that long https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8u0jRxN2kQ

    not to mention some of the perks u mentioned arent op in any way, such as borrowed, ds, nurses, or ruin, you can play around all of these, completely avoiding them in your matches.

    u do make some good points tho, like how some maps are designed horribly, ######### like the crotus pren building or the ironworks window still existing is crazy to me.

  • GrootDude
    GrootDude Member Posts: 14,110

    It actually isn’t much different at green ranks lately.

  • premiumRICE
    premiumRICE Member Posts: 798

    you are just ranting dude, MoM doesn't even activate if you arent hit by the m1 which is like every meta killer except for the nurse which is just on another level.

    Just try to counter the DS, let them slug a bit, apply that pressure and you are ok.

    its not like the game should be press m1 and win because reasons.

  • xXNurseXx
    xXNurseXx Member Posts: 261
    edited June 2019

    THE REASON WHY THIS GAME IS NOT SURVIVOR SIDED -> NURSE

    hehe but all other killers (besides spirit and billy) are bad, yeah

  • Angelicus23
    Angelicus23 Member Posts: 2,547
    edited June 2019

    Lmao bothany knowledge doesn't work with selfcare, but even if it worked, a medkit still heals faster

    (some people is answering that yes, maybe I'm wrong but a med kit stills heals faster)

  • Angelicus23
    Angelicus23 Member Posts: 2,547

    Forgot to mention that you complained about genrush, but no killer main mentioned before that ghostface and the last 5 killes brings one perk to counter gens 🙄🤔

  • GrootDude
    GrootDude Member Posts: 14,110
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519697#Comment_519697

    But I can cleanse ruin.🤔

  • Angelicus23
    Angelicus23 Member Posts: 2,547
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519696#Comment_519696

    I should try it too now, but a medkit stills heals faster, because that combo must be like 73% of speed

  • se05239
    se05239 Member Posts: 3,919
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519690#Comment_519690

    It DOES work. BK affects all healing.

  • Angelicus23
    Angelicus23 Member Posts: 2,547
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519701#Comment_519701

    I mentioned pop goes the weasel, discordance, plague's, the ghostface's one, surveilance and haunted grounds which combines with ruin and thrill of the hunt

  • GrootDude
    GrootDude Member Posts: 14,110
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519697#Comment_519697

    Discordance:don’t do gens together

    corrupt intervention:hide

    Spirit Fury:drop the pallet early

    Rancor:Easy to fake leave the area I screamed in

    Haunted grounds :Hide

    PGTW:This perk doesn’t actually work that well, especially not on low mobility killers.

    (I can’t remember who came before clown.

  • Angelicus23
    Angelicus23 Member Posts: 2,547
    edited June 2019
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519713#Comment_519713

    Discordance: dont make gens together so the killer finds one of you easier and you last more time to make gens

    Corrupt intervention: hide, and lose time of the match not reparing

    Not mentioned the two followings

    Haunted grounds you can't hide with thrill of the hunt and sometimes helps you in the middle of a chase (even if they hide, they lose more time, more time spent not reparing)

    Pgtw: just got buffed

    Surveilance: you know if someone is reparing of a checked gen

    You use as an argument nt that survivors counters many perks hiding, but if they hide, they dont repare

  • GrootDude
    GrootDude Member Posts: 14,110
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519719#Comment_519719

    Most people hide during corrupt, an optimal team are all doing different gens, PGTW change isn’t live yet, ignore totems if that is a problem(unless DH is in play, the killer can only be in one place at a time so surveillance Isn’t guaranteed to work.

    All those perks are locked behind a paywall btw.

  • Angelicus23
    Angelicus23 Member Posts: 2,547
    edited June 2019
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519729#Comment_519729

    Emmmm surveillance consists in that the gen changes the color if someone works on it after you leave, then you know someone was still there and you avoid a gen that could be done if you just left.

    Btw I said anything about totems and devour hope. If you felt free to say that, I feel free to say that you can counter healing with perks like nurse's calling and clowndophobia (I think it's called) which can be conmbined with the perk that makes terror radious larger.

    All those perks can be bought by the shrine of secrets, no need to buy the killers or the DLCs, which the thruth is that is better to buy the DLC as I did.

    I consider myself survivor main, but trust me that I spend more time and even get higher rank as killer every month and I perfectly know how it feels to be looped, genrushed, flashlighted and tbagged. I just don't care about all that, I don't complain, just get the kills I can, get the fun I can and search a new match.

  • GrootDude
    GrootDude Member Posts: 14,110
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519747#Comment_519747

    Shrine is rng, I want survivors to heal since they waste time doing so.