Every game killer tunnels one guy

Orion

@thesuicidefox said:

@Cetren said:
Even in the event that you "handicap" yourself for a fun game as survivor, the killer taking the hit on you STILL puts him at a disadvantage. You get a speed boost, and they're slowed to a crawl for the wiping animation. By the time that's over, you will he far away due to a combination of you getting a boost while the killer gets slower, and the killers diverted attention means the other survivor will gain a lot of distance as well. So he's still in a WORSE position than if he hits the other guy down. If you hate tunneling that much, run borrowed time. Then the killer doesn't get an advantage for hitting the other survivor, because they couldve hit you and been in the same position.

Dude, hook is 20m away, I'm right there in front of them, injured. No it's not a disadvantage because you will still get me faster than the other dude. I have been in this situation MANY TIMES, where I was clearly CLEARLY the easier, more optimal target. BUT NOPE let's go back to the hook and look for that guy, wasting 30 seconds just to re-acquire the target. This is why I say bad killers camp/tunnel because the good killers will come after me, and will (most likely) catch and hook me. They know that I'm the optimal target.

If you're right in front of the Killer, you're in melee range. I think we both know this is not true. Assuming you're 10 m away from the Killer, here's how long he wastes to put you down, and that's assuming you run in a straight line:

Sprint Burst for 3 seconds. You have moved 18 m. In those 3 seconds, the Killer has moved 13.8 m. In total, the distance between you two has actually increased to 14.2 m (roughly a 40% increase).
After 12 seconds, you have moved 48 m. In those 12 seconds, the Killer has moved 55.2 m. The distance between you two has decreased to 7 m (70% of where we started, but only after 15 seconds).
Bloodlust I has kicked in. After an additional 8.75 seconds, the Killer has finally caught up with you.
In total, it took almost 25 seconds just to catch a single injured Survivor who was 10 m away, running in a straight line. This Survivor will then take 2 minutes to die on a hook, compared to the other one's 60 seconds (at best).

However, we all know that Survivors do not run in a straight line. They loop and loop and loop and loop, wasting absurd amounts of the Killers' time. So, the next time you wonder why the Killer is going after the weakest link, I hope you take into consideration what I said here.

thesuicidefox

@Zanfer said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:
You have to adapt and play differently against killers.. that is the point of the game

OH PLEASE TELL ME WHAT ELSE CAN I DO? Please because when the killer tunnels/camps there is no "adapting". There is "go do gens because you can't ever save this person". Adapting to a killer would require some actual skill on the killers part for me to play around. But when they are bad, they just sit by the hook. I have no options but gens and hiding. Wow, look at me go adapting to this amazing strategy.

If you were a smart survivor you actually can take a hit for the person still being chased to put less pressure on him and more on the killer. Maybe you should respond to my longer post I had to say about similar situations..

I did respond. It doesn't work. BBQ doesn't encourage killers to leave the hook like people say. Borrowed Time doesn't work because killers continue to chase the guy anyway. Taking a hit and drawing attention away doesn't work because they still just end up ignoring you. Then killers complain about gen rush, bro I'm only doing gens because you won't leave the hook. I'd be happy to stop doing a gen and go unhook/heal that guy if you'd leave.

Dude I've been flat out slugged by a kill while they tunneled the guy I just unhooked. NO TELL ME AGAIN HOW I'M SUPPOSED TO SAVE THE GUY IF THE KILLER DOES NOT EVEN CARE ABOUT A FREE HOOK?!

Orion

@thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:
You have to adapt and play differently against killers.. that is the point of the game

OH PLEASE TELL ME WHAT ELSE CAN I DO? Please because when the killer tunnels/camps there is no "adapting". There is "go do gens because you can't ever save this person". Adapting to a killer would require some actual skill on the killers part for me to play around. But when they are bad, they just sit by the hook. I have no options but gens and hiding. Wow, look at me go adapting to this amazing strategy.

If you were a smart survivor you actually can take a hit for the person still being chased to put less pressure on him and more on the killer. Maybe you should respond to my longer post I had to say about similar situations..

I did respond. It doesn't work. BBQ doesn't encourage killers to leave the hook like people say. Borrowed Time doesn't work because killers continue to chase the guy anyway. Taking a hit and drawing attention away doesn't work because they still just end up ignoring you. Then killers complain about gen rush, bro I'm only doing gens because you won't leave the hook. I'd be happy to stop doing a gen and go unhook/heal that guy if you'd leave.

Dude I've been flat out slugged by a kill while they tunneled the guy I just unhooked. NO TELL ME AGAIN HOW I'M SUPPOSED TO SAVE THE GUY IF THE KILLER DOES NOT EVEN CARE ABOUT A FREE HOOK?!

It's almost like the Killer is supposed to be the power role in this asymmetrical game or something.

Cetren

thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:

@Cetren said:
thesuicidefox said:

@The_Manlet said:

Only a handful of top tier killers such as Nurse and Hillbilly have the potential to play catch and release 12 times in a row. Most killers are weak, far weaker than competent survivors, and they need to eliminate a player as quickly as possible. Tunneling sucks but the game's balance mandates it.

On the old system this would be an excuse, but killers can pip without killing a single survivor. I know I've done it. Not saying it was the most fun game, but they all got away and I still pipped.

So give me another excuse because that doesn't fly anymore.

Wait, quote "I don't care about the emblem or the BP... I want to have a fun game."

Now keep that in mind and read what you just said.

You're flat out contradicting yourself. You just want killers to handicap themselves for your enjoyment.

Yupp exactly he just wants killers to not be killers..

No I want the game to REWARD GOOD KILLERS, and PUNISH BAD KILLERS.

Right now, because of how EASY it is to camp/tunnel someone, the game rewards bad killers. Like I said before you can tell a good killer from a bad killer when they chase you and how much map pressure they keep. I've played plenty of killers (not always Billy or Nurse) that are REALLY GOOD and do not camp/tunnel, yet still walk out of the game with 3k or 4k and likely a double pip.

Which is fine and common AT LOW RANKS. I'm one of those killers. I just waltz around and get easy 4k's without camping or tunneling. But as you get higher in rank THIS DOES NOT REMAIN AS A VIABLE STRATEGY. I've been in games where ruin is up for 5 gens and the killer doesn't still have enough time to get more than a 1k. Seriously. It has nothing to do with their skill and everything to do with time management. I've been on both ends of the spectrum, I've had survivors praise me for being one of the most fair and best killers they've hit, and I've had others berate me for being a noob and not playing fair. It has nothing to do with how I played and everything to do with THEIR standard of fair. Change the standard, enjoy the game, don't have unrealistic expectations.

thesuicidefox

@Orion said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Cetren said:
Even in the event that you "handicap" yourself for a fun game as survivor, the killer taking the hit on you STILL puts him at a disadvantage. You get a speed boost, and they're slowed to a crawl for the wiping animation. By the time that's over, you will he far away due to a combination of you getting a boost while the killer gets slower, and the killers diverted attention means the other survivor will gain a lot of distance as well. So he's still in a WORSE position than if he hits the other guy down. If you hate tunneling that much, run borrowed time. Then the killer doesn't get an advantage for hitting the other survivor, because they couldve hit you and been in the same position.

Dude, hook is 20m away, I'm right there in front of them, injured. No it's not a disadvantage because you will still get me faster than the other dude. I have been in this situation MANY TIMES, where I was clearly CLEARLY the easier, more optimal target. BUT NOPE let's go back to the hook and look for that guy, wasting 30 seconds just to re-acquire the target. This is why I say bad killers camp/tunnel because the good killers will come after me, and will (most likely) catch and hook me. They know that I'm the optimal target.

If you're right in front of the Killer, you're in melee range. I think we both know this is not true. Assuming you're 10 m away from the Killer, here's how long he wastes to put you down, and that's assuming you run in a straight line:

Sprint Burst for 3 seconds. You have moved 18 m. In those 3 seconds, the Killer has moved 13.8 m. In total, the distance between you two has actually increased to 14.2 m (roughly a 40% increase).
After 12 seconds, you have moved 48 m. In those 12 seconds, the Killer has moved 55.2 m. The distance between you two has decreased to 7 m (70% of where we started, but only after 15 seconds).
Bloodlust I has kicked in. After an additional 8.75 seconds, the Killer has finally caught up with you.
In total, it took almost 25 seconds just to catch a single injured Survivor who was 10 m away, running in a straight line. This Survivor will then take 2 minutes to die on a hook, compared to the other one's 60 seconds (at best).

However, we all know that Survivors do not run in a straight line. They loop and loop and loop and loop, wasting absurd amounts of the Killers' time. So, the next time you wonder why the Killer is going after the weakest link, I hope you take into consideration what I said here.

You clearly don't understand my problem here. Hook is farther away than me in relation to the killer (actual distance is irrelevant I threw out a number to show that 'hook far, me close'). I'm already injured. Killer still decides to 180 and go back to the hook, when he could have gotten me SIGNIFICANTLY faster.

Orion

@thesuicidefox said:

@Orion said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Cetren said:
Even in the event that you "handicap" yourself for a fun game as survivor, the killer taking the hit on you STILL puts him at a disadvantage. You get a speed boost, and they're slowed to a crawl for the wiping animation. By the time that's over, you will he far away due to a combination of you getting a boost while the killer gets slower, and the killers diverted attention means the other survivor will gain a lot of distance as well. So he's still in a WORSE position than if he hits the other guy down. If you hate tunneling that much, run borrowed time. Then the killer doesn't get an advantage for hitting the other survivor, because they couldve hit you and been in the same position.

Dude, hook is 20m away, I'm right there in front of them, injured. No it's not a disadvantage because you will still get me faster than the other dude. I have been in this situation MANY TIMES, where I was clearly CLEARLY the easier, more optimal target. BUT NOPE let's go back to the hook and look for that guy, wasting 30 seconds just to re-acquire the target. This is why I say bad killers camp/tunnel because the good killers will come after me, and will (most likely) catch and hook me. They know that I'm the optimal target.

If you're right in front of the Killer, you're in melee range. I think we both know this is not true. Assuming you're 10 m away from the Killer, here's how long he wastes to put you down, and that's assuming you run in a straight line:

Sprint Burst for 3 seconds. You have moved 18 m. In those 3 seconds, the Killer has moved 13.8 m. In total, the distance between you two has actually increased to 14.2 m (roughly a 40% increase).
After 12 seconds, you have moved 48 m. In those 12 seconds, the Killer has moved 55.2 m. The distance between you two has decreased to 7 m (70% of where we started, but only after 15 seconds).
Bloodlust I has kicked in. After an additional 8.75 seconds, the Killer has finally caught up with you.
In total, it took almost 25 seconds just to catch a single injured Survivor who was 10 m away, running in a straight line. This Survivor will then take 2 minutes to die on a hook, compared to the other one's 60 seconds (at best).

However, we all know that Survivors do not run in a straight line. They loop and loop and loop and loop, wasting absurd amounts of the Killers' time. So, the next time you wonder why the Killer is going after the weakest link, I hope you take into consideration what I said here.

You clearly don't understand my problem here. Hook is farther away than me in relation to the killer. I'm already injured. Killer still decides to 180 and go back to the hook, when he could have gotten me SIGNIFICANTLY faster.

You clearly didn't read what I wrote, or you'd know I explained why that's not the case.

I don't know why I bother proving mathematically that Survivors are wrong when they don't seem to read anything that disagrees with their preconceptions.

Zanfer

@Orion said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:
You have to adapt and play differently against killers.. that is the point of the game

OH PLEASE TELL ME WHAT ELSE CAN I DO? Please because when the killer tunnels/camps there is no "adapting". There is "go do gens because you can't ever save this person". Adapting to a killer would require some actual skill on the killers part for me to play around. But when they are bad, they just sit by the hook. I have no options but gens and hiding. Wow, look at me go adapting to this amazing strategy.

If you were a smart survivor you actually can take a hit for the person still being chased to put less pressure on him and more on the killer. Maybe you should respond to my longer post I had to say about similar situations..

I did respond. It doesn't work. BBQ doesn't encourage killers to leave the hook like people say. Borrowed Time doesn't work because killers continue to chase the guy anyway. Taking a hit and drawing attention away doesn't work because they still just end up ignoring you. Then killers complain about gen rush, bro I'm only doing gens because you won't leave the hook. I'd be happy to stop doing a gen and go unhook/heal that guy if you'd leave.

Dude I've been flat out slugged by a kill while they tunneled the guy I just unhooked. NO TELL ME AGAIN HOW I'M SUPPOSED TO SAVE THE GUY IF THE KILLER DOES NOT EVEN CARE ABOUT A FREE HOOK?!

It's almost like the Killer is supposed to be the power role in this asymmetrical game or something.

Yeah at this point I am done talking with the OP, if he doesn't think this game is fun than he can leave..

thesuicidefox

@Lowbei said:
thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:

You have to adapt and play differently against killers.. that is the point of the game

OH PLEASE TELL ME WHAT ELSE CAN I DO? 

ok

Ok sooooooo..... no really how do I save the guy when the killer is RIGHT THERE. Borrowed Time really only ensure that I don't get the farming penalty. My options are A- leave the guy to die and do gens, B- save the guy and he gets tunneled and die faster. Hmmm yea so much skill involve in either of those.

Pretty good memes so far

Zanfer

@thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:
You have to adapt and play differently against killers.. that is the point of the game

OH PLEASE TELL ME WHAT ELSE CAN I DO? Please because when the killer tunnels/camps there is no "adapting". There is "go do gens because you can't ever save this person". Adapting to a killer would require some actual skill on the killers part for me to play around. But when they are bad, they just sit by the hook. I have no options but gens and hiding. Wow, look at me go adapting to this amazing strategy.

If you were a smart survivor you actually can take a hit for the person still being chased to put less pressure on him and more on the killer. Maybe you should respond to my longer post I had to say about similar situations..

I did respond. It doesn't work. BBQ doesn't encourage killers to leave the hook like people say. Borrowed Time doesn't work because killers continue to chase the guy anyway. Taking a hit and drawing attention away doesn't work because they still just end up ignoring you. Then killers complain about gen rush, bro I'm only doing gens because you won't leave the hook. I'd be happy to stop doing a gen and go unhook/heal that guy if you'd leave.

Dude I've been flat out slugged by a kill while they tunneled the guy I just unhooked. NO TELL ME AGAIN HOW I'M SUPPOSED TO SAVE THE GUY IF THE KILLER DOES NOT EVEN CARE ABOUT A FREE HOOK?!

Well than how did that survivor get on the hook in the first place. They most likely made a mistake to get in that situation which means that the killer took that opportunity to capitalize on the survivors mistake. If that survivor was actually decent maybe he wouldn't have been caught out by the killer and not on the hook. Now would it be a fun game for the killer to not get any hooks at all and just chase people around loops the entire game? Cause that is what I think of when I think of a bad killer. A killer who can't actually kill people.

Orion

@thesuicidefox said:

@Lowbei said:
thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:

You have to adapt and play differently against killers.. that is the point of the game

OH PLEASE TELL ME WHAT ELSE CAN I DO? 

ok

Ok sooooooo..... no really how do I save the guy when the killer is RIGHT THERE. Borrowed Time really only ensure that I don't get the farming penalty. My options are A) leave the guy to die and do gens, save the guy and he gets tunneled and die faster. Hmmm yea so much skill involve in either of those.

Pretty good memes so far

So don't save the guy. Not every Survivor is going to live every game, and the Killer is supposed to be able to stop you from unhooking.

Orion

Seriously, what is wrong with you Survivors? Just because you want to do something doesn't mean you can or should be able to do it. If that's the kind of game you want, it already exists. It's called a "Sandbox" game. This is an asymmetrical horror multiplayer game, where you will not always get your way. If you want a sandbox game, then go play a sandbox game.

thesuicidefox

@Zanfer said:
Well than how did that survivor get on the hook in the first place. They most likely made a mistake to get in that situation which means that the killer took that opportunity to capitalize on the survivors mistake. If that survivor was actually decent maybe he wouldn't have been caught out by the killer and not on the hook. Now would it be a fun game for the killer to not get any hooks at all and just chase people around loops the entire game? Cause that is what I think of when I think of a bad killer. A killer who can't actually kill people.

No and this is the problem with all your arguments in the first place. They assume I don't want the killer to have a good game either.

If a guy gets hooked he made a mistake. Sure, but that one mistake now he's dead. You see the extreme here? Do you see why that's a problem? No to mention the fact that by going down other survivors (me) are now going to STOP GENS to go unhook/heal this guy. Killer catching someone can capitalize on the mistake PLENTY without camp/tunnels.

It's almost like everyone in this thread defending killers absurd and obvious skillless behavior don't grasp the simple concept that I want the game to be fun for everyone, and that these tactics shouldn't be the go-to for every killer. It's one thing to be forced into a position to camp/tunnel, and it's another to just do it because it's easy and THAT IS WHAT MOST KILLERS DO BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY SKILL.

thesuicidefox

@Orion said:
So don't save the guy. Not every Survivor is going to live every game, and the Killer is supposed to be able to stop you from unhooking.

It is every game though. That's what you don't get, EVERY GAME I have to just let someone die on the hook. If the guy ends up dying by the end of the trial I don't care. I've left survivors to bleed out for 2 minutes so I can take the hatch. I get this part of the game. What I'm saying is that killers should not be able to just get easy kills because they don't have enough brains cells to rub together to actually get some skill in the game.

Orion

@thesuicidefox said:

@Orion said:
So don't save the guy. Not every Survivor is going to live every game, and the Killer is supposed to be able to stop you from unhooking.

It is every game though. That's what you don't get, EVERY GAME I have to just let someone die on the hook. If the guy ends up dying by the end of the trial I don't care. I've left survivors to bleed out for 2 minutes so I can take the hatch. I get this part of the game. What I'm saying is that killers should not be able to just get easy kills because they don't have enough brains cells to rub together to actually get some skill in the game.

Too.#########.bad. Maybe you should complain that the Survivors you're playing with don't have enough brain cells to escape the Killer.

Zanfer

@thesuicidefox said:

@Orion said:
So don't save the guy. Not every Survivor is going to live every game, and the Killer is supposed to be able to stop you from unhooking.

It is every game though. That's what you don't get, EVERY GAME I have to just let someone die on the hook. If the guy ends up dying by the end of the trial I don't care. I've left survivors to bleed out for 2 minutes so I can take the hatch. I get this part of the game. What I'm saying is that killers should not be able to just get easy kills because they don't have enough brains cells to rub together to actually get some skill in the game.

So you say you have to let the survivor die when you want to save them which is a bummer to you. Than you say right after that you don't care that they die at the end? That kind of goes against what you have been saying. (I'm not referring to your whole "everyone has to have fun argument that you have been talking about..") Not everyone will live like @Orion has said multiple times.

Also since you keep referring to this "everyone should be having fun", how are you measuring levels of fun times? Do you ask every single person in your matches "Have you been having fun game" If you aren't than clearly you are assuming that these players are not having a fun time. If you are not having a good time than don't spread negativity in this way cause it doesn't make any sense.. @Lowbei @RemoveSWF @Orion @EpicFailTryHard

thesuicidefox

@Zanfer said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Orion said:
So don't save the guy. Not every Survivor is going to live every game, and the Killer is supposed to be able to stop you from unhooking.

It is every game though. That's what you don't get, EVERY GAME I have to just let someone die on the hook. If the guy ends up dying by the end of the trial I don't care. I've left survivors to bleed out for 2 minutes so I can take the hatch. I get this part of the game. What I'm saying is that killers should not be able to just get easy kills because they don't have enough brains cells to rub together to actually get some skill in the game.

So you say you have to let the survivor die when you want to save them which is a bummer to you. Than you say right after that you don't care that they die at the end? That kind of goes against what you have been saying. (I'm not referring to your whole "everyone has to have fun argument that you have been talking about..") Not everyone will live like @Orion has said multiple times.

Also since you keep referring to this "everyone should be having fun", how are you measuring levels of fun times? Do you ask every single person in your matches "Have you been having fun game" If you aren't than clearly you are assuming that these players are not having a fun time. If you are not having a good time than don't spread negativity in this way cause it doesn't make any sense.. @Lowbei @RemoveSWF @Orion @EpicFailTryHard

I don't want the survivor to die because that means it will be a really ######### game. It means I'm going to have probably let someone else die too, and it means I'll be racing the other survivors to do gens. It means if I make a single mistake against the killer I'm dead. I don't care if they die if it was a good game and I have a chance to escape. I do care if they die and then the rest of the game is just a chore because I'm literally just doing skill checks for the next 3 minutes until I can escape. There is just nothing fun about playing against this very common and rather easy tactic. Death, escape, pip, no pip, he dies, you die, I die. I want a good game that doesn't feel like something I'm just stuck dealing with for the next X minutes until I escape or die.

Lowbei

stop crying

RepliCant

Hold on, are Killers really calling tunneling a valid tactic then going on about how pallet looping takes no skill?

Let us spill the tea folks.

I would like a lengthy explanation on how skill is provided from wacking an injured survivor unhooked less than 12m away from you. From my experience play as a Killer, unless the survivor is hooked right infront of you, there's is no reason to chase them back down again and ignoring every single survivor in your path just to kill off one. Many of skillful Killers I've played against optimize switching targets and usually down and hook them, causing more of a stop to the progression of the game. Not to mention, multiple hooks on multiple survivors scream skill more than multiple hooks on only one survivor or vice versa (Multiple survivors hooked once).

"But... they are the easier target. Why wouldn't I go after them?" Here's your answer: Assuming they have Self Care, that is time that a generator is not being worked on. Time that if you're skilled enough, they get on a generator and the other survivor should about to be hooked. And the process should continue on.

Why do you all whine victim? It's established that tunneling, camping, and looping are all effortless tactics. The worst part is you ALL defend them and whine about them at the same time. Both parties want easy games and you guys are getting selfish, rude, and greedy about it. 4 BNPs = No skill, Tunneling an injured survivor = poor skill, looping around 5 pallets after another = less skill. Stop defending these poor tactics because they have great results.

And Survivors are really guilty for it, but it's more present with Killers of the fact that you guys complain about survivors tactics and abilities and go on to defend your effortless ones. You guys attack people who are 50/50 Survivor and Killer, and this entire forum is just complaining about complaining about the people complaining.

thesuicidefox

@Lowbei said:
stop crying

LOL no you don't get to tell me how to be a forumer. Maybe you should just stop reading.

PS. If you think that argument sounds dumb, that's basically how your argument looks to me

Lowbei

thesuicidefox said:

@Lowbei said:
stop crying

LOL no you don't get to tell me how to be a forumer. Maybe you should just stop reading.

PS. If you think that argument sounds dumb, that's basically how your argument looks to me

 no worries then. keep crying. go full tantrum mode for our entertainment, but dont expect any changes ingame. git gud.

thesuicidefox

@Brady said:
Hold on, are Killers really calling tunneling a valid tactic then going on about how pallet looping takes no skill?

Let us spill the tea folks.

I would like a lengthy explanation on how skill is provided from wacking an injured survivor unhooked less than 12m away from you. From my experience play as a Killer, unless the survivor is hooked right infront of you, there's is no reason to chase them back down again and ignoring every single survivor in your path just to kill off one. Many of skillful Killers I've played against optimize switching targets and usually down and hook them, causing more of a stop to the progression of the game. Not to mention, multiple hooks on multiple survivors scream skill more than multiple hooks on only one survivor or vice versa (Multiple survivors hooked once).

"But... they are the easier target. Why wouldn't I go after them?" Here's your answer: Assuming they have Self Care, that is time that a generator is not being worked on. Time that if you're skilled enough, they get on a generator and the other survivor should about to be hooked. And the process should continue on.

Why do you all whine victim? It's established that tunneling, camping, and looping are all effortless tactics. The worst part is you ALL defend them and whine about them at the same time. Both parties want easy games and you guys are getting selfish, rude, and greedy about it. 4 BNPs = No skill, Tunneling an injured survivor = poor skill, looping around 5 pallets after another = less skill. Stop defending these poor tactics because they have great results.

And Survivors are really guilty for it, but it's more present with Killers of the fact that you guys complain about survivors tactics and abilities and go on to defend your effortless ones. You guys attack people who are 50/50 Survivor and Killer, and this entire forum is just complaining about complaining about the people complaining.

Thank you for this post. This is the kind of reasoning we need around here. I agree too that looping is a problem! Wow, a survivor main agrees looping is bad?! Yes it's dumb and doesn't take skill to run in a circle. Know what takes skill as a survivor. Actually escaping a chase. Not just running from window to window to pallet to pallet. Now I'm not saying I don't run to windows and pallets as survivor, I totally do. Just that once I throw the pallet or hop the window I'm looking to escape the chase, not keep the loop going.

EpicFailTryHard

thesuicidefox said:

@Lowbei said:
thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:

You have to adapt and play differently against killers.. that is the point of the game

OH PLEASE TELL ME WHAT ELSE CAN I DO? 

ok

Ok sooooooo..... no really how do I save the guy when the killer is RIGHT THERE. Borrowed Time really only ensure that I don't get the farming penalty. My options are A- leave the guy to die and do gens, B- save the guy and he gets tunneled and die faster. Hmmm yea so much skill involve in either of those.

Pretty good memes so far

true story.

EpicFailTryHard

thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:
Well than how did that survivor get on the hook in the first place. They most likely made a mistake to get in that situation which means that the killer took that opportunity to capitalize on the survivors mistake. If that survivor was actually decent maybe he wouldn't have been caught out by the killer and not on the hook. Now would it be a fun game for the killer to not get any hooks at all and just chase people around loops the entire game? Cause that is what I think of when I think of a bad killer. A killer who can't actually kill people.

No and this is the problem with all your arguments in the first place. They assume I don't want the killer to have a good game either.

If a guy gets hooked he made a mistake. Sure, but that one mistake now he's dead. You see the extreme here? Do you see why that's a problem? No to mention the fact that by going down other survivors (me) are now going to STOP GENS to go unhook/heal this guy. Killer catching someone can capitalize on the mistake PLENTY without camp/tunnels.

It's almost like everyone in this thread defending killers absurd and obvious skillless behavior don't grasp the simple concept that I want the game to be fun for everyone, and that these tactics shouldn't be the go-to for every killer. It's one thing to be forced into a position to camp/tunnel, and it's another to just do it because it's easy and THAT IS WHAT MOST KILLERS DO BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY SKILL.

as controversial as it is, i just leave the game when tunneled off a hook.  it comes to that point for me, so i do it.  i suspect if enough people do this....

Zanfer

@thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Orion said:
So don't save the guy. Not every Survivor is going to live every game, and the Killer is supposed to be able to stop you from unhooking.

It is every game though. That's what you don't get, EVERY GAME I have to just let someone die on the hook. If the guy ends up dying by the end of the trial I don't care. I've left survivors to bleed out for 2 minutes so I can take the hatch. I get this part of the game. What I'm saying is that killers should not be able to just get easy kills because they don't have enough brains cells to rub together to actually get some skill in the game.

So you say you have to let the survivor die when you want to save them which is a bummer to you. Than you say right after that you don't care that they die at the end? That kind of goes against what you have been saying. (I'm not referring to your whole "everyone has to have fun argument that you have been talking about..") Not everyone will live like @Orion has said multiple times.

Also since you keep referring to this "everyone should be having fun", how are you measuring levels of fun times? Do you ask every single person in your matches "Have you been having fun game" If you aren't than clearly you are assuming that these players are not having a fun time. If you are not having a good time than don't spread negativity in this way cause it doesn't make any sense.. @Lowbei @RemoveSWF @Orion @EpicFailTryHard

I don't want the survivor to die because that means it will be a really ######### game. It means I'm going to have probably let someone else die too, and it means I'll be racing the other survivors to do gens. It means if I make a single mistake against the killer I'm dead. I don't care if they die if it was a good game and I have a chance to escape. I do care if they die and then the rest of the game is just a chore because I'm literally just doing skill checks for the next 3 minutes until I can escape. There is just nothing fun about playing against this very common and rather easy tactic. Death, escape, pip, no pip, he dies, you die, I die. I want a good game that doesn't feel like something I'm just stuck dealing with for the next X minutes until I escape or die.

than clearly this game isn't for you..

Lowbei

Zanfer said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Orion said:
So don't save the guy. Not every Survivor is going to live every game, and the Killer is supposed to be able to stop you from unhooking.

It is every game though. That's what you don't get, EVERY GAME I have to just let someone die on the hook. If the guy ends up dying by the end of the trial I don't care. I've left survivors to bleed out for 2 minutes so I can take the hatch. I get this part of the game. What I'm saying is that killers should not be able to just get easy kills because they don't have enough brains cells to rub together to actually get some skill in the game.

So you say you have to let the survivor die when you want to save them which is a bummer to you. Than you say right after that you don't care that they die at the end? That kind of goes against what you have been saying. (I'm not referring to your whole "everyone has to have fun argument that you have been talking about..") Not everyone will live like @Orion has said multiple times.

Also since you keep referring to this "everyone should be having fun", how are you measuring levels of fun times? Do you ask every single person in your matches "Have you been having fun game" If you aren't than clearly you are assuming that these players are not having a fun time. If you are not having a good time than don't spread negativity in this way cause it doesn't make any sense.. @Lowbei @RemoveSWF @Orion @EpicFailTryHard

I don't want the survivor to die because that means it will be a really ######### game. It means I'm going to have probably let someone else die too, and it means I'll be racing the other survivors to do gens. It means if I make a single mistake against the killer I'm dead. I don't care if they die if it was a good game and I have a chance to escape. I do care if they die and then the rest of the game is just a chore because I'm literally just doing skill checks for the next 3 minutes until I can escape. There is just nothing fun about playing against this very common and rather easy tactic. Death, escape, pip, no pip, he dies, you die, I die. I want a good game that doesn't feel like something I'm just stuck dealing with for the next X minutes until I escape or die.

than clearly this game isn't for you..

lol

EpicFailTryHard

@EpicFailTryHard




based on the sheer volume of quitting in such circumstances, neither a vivid imagination or a poll in the aftermath is required to make an obvious conclusion. 

Runiver

Keep Fighting for nothing please.
It makes me feel back home. (Aka Steam forums)

thesuicidefox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Fa6XdNEV8

Straight from the horse's mouth. True says himself that camping is "easy mode". A lot of killer mains seem to be under the impression I don't know what the killer is doing. I do. He is playing more optimally with less risk. What I am saying is that you should not reward killers that play like this and ONLY like this, because it promotes unhealthy gameplay, and is outright abuse of game mechanics. And in case you missed before, YES, looping is also abuse of game mechanics and should be fixed.

None of this type of bull ######### should be acceptable in the game.

This is also why I respect True as a killer. Besides being pretty damn good he doesn't resort to easy tactics straight off the bat. If pushed to it, by a toxic survivor or SWF, or just a bad game, yes he does it and I don't fault him. But he also takes a LOT more risk than most killers would ever take and still comes out on top because he's actually a good killer. He takes those chances because they pay off. These players that do nothing but camp/tunnel do none of that. They just follow a formula that's almost guaranteed to benefit them. No skill involved here.

Zanfer

@Brady said:
Hold on, are Killers really calling tunneling a valid tactic then going on about how pallet looping takes no skill?

Let us spill the tea folks.

I would like a lengthy explanation on how skill is provided from wacking an injured survivor unhooked less than 12m away from you. From my experience play as a Killer, unless the survivor is hooked right infront of you, there's is no reason to chase them back down again and ignoring every single survivor in your path just to kill off one. Many of skillful Killers I've played against optimize switching targets and usually down and hook them, causing more of a stop to the progression of the game. Not to mention, multiple hooks on multiple survivors scream skill more than multiple hooks on only one survivor or vice versa (Multiple survivors hooked once).

"But... they are the easier target. Why wouldn't I go after them?" Here's your answer: Assuming they have Self Care, that is time that a generator is not being worked on. Time that if you're skilled enough, they get on a generator and the other survivor should about to be hooked. And the process should continue on.

Why do you all whine victim? It's established that tunneling, camping, and looping are all effortless tactics. The worst part is you ALL defend them and whine about them at the same time. Both parties want easy games and you guys are getting selfish, rude, and greedy about it. 4 BNPs = No skill, Tunneling an injured survivor = poor skill, looping around 5 pallets after another = less skill. Stop defending these poor tactics because they have great results.

And Survivors are really guilty for it, but it's more present with Killers of the fact that you guys complain about survivors tactics and abilities and go on to defend your effortless ones. You guys attack people who are 50/50 Survivor and Killer, and this entire forum is just complaining about complaining about the people complaining.

This topic in this thread is about someone not having fun in dbd cause killers tunnel. You can't really do anything against a killer who wants someone dead cause they will do anything to an extent to kill. Even though like you said that it is not the best tatic to use, not everyone who plays this game is an optimal player and there is no way around it. What you are talking about are things that are deep woven into the game and no reason to complain about them unless you just don't like the game.

thesuicidefox

@Zanfer said:
This topic in this thread is about someone not having fun in dbd cause killers tunnel. You can't really do anything against a killer who wants someone dead cause they will do anything to an extent to kill. Even though like you said that it is not the best tatic to use, not everyone who plays this game is an optimal player and there is no way around it. What you are talking about are things that are deep woven into the game and no reason to complain about them unless you just don't like the game.

Bullshit. Killers do not need to camp/tunnel to get kills, just like survivors don't need looping to escape a chase. You can play this game without doing either and be successful. The problem is the game heavily rewards this nonsense, to the point that it becomes the superior strategy and thus most players end up doing it because it works better (along with being easy, it's quite obvious why these are problems). The mechanics can be fixed and the rewards adjusted so that they are no longer optimal, thus requiring players to have SKILL in order to succeed.

BVHR seems more concerned with minor band-aid changes instead of actually addressing the core issues of the game.

Lowbei

thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:
This topic in this thread is about someone not having fun in dbd cause killers tunnel. You can't really do anything against a killer who wants someone dead cause they will do anything to an extent to kill. Even though like you said that it is not the best tatic to use, not everyone who plays this game is an optimal player and there is no way around it. What you are talking about are things that are deep woven into the game and no reason to complain about them unless you just don't like the game.

Bullshit. Killers do not need to camp/tunnel to get kills, just like survivors don't need looping to escape a chase. You can play this game without doing either and be successful. The problem is the game heavily rewards this nonsense, to the point that it becomes the superior strategy and thus most players end up doing it because it works better. The mechanics can be fixed and the rewards adjusted so that they are no longer optimal, thus requiring players to have SKILL in order to succeed.

stop crying

Zanfer

@thesuicidefox said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Fa6XdNEV8

Straight from the horse's mouth. True says himself that camping is "easy mode". A lot of killer mains seem to be under the impression I don't know what the killer is doing. I do. He is playing more optimally with less risk. What I am saying is that you should not reward killers that play like this and ONLY like this, because it promotes unhealthy gameplay, and is outright abuse of game mechanics. And in case you missed before, YES, looping is also abuse of game mechanics and should be fixed.

None of this type of bull ######### should be acceptable in the game.

This is also why I respect True as a killer. Besides being pretty damn good he doesn't resort to easy tactics straight off the bat. If pushed to it, by a toxic survivor or SWF, or just a bad game, yes he does it and I don't fault him. But he also takes a LOT more risk than most killers would ever take and still comes out on top because he's actually a good killer. He takes those chances because they pay off. These players that do nothing but camp/tunnel do none of that. They just follow a formula that's almost guaranteed to benefit them. No skill involved here.

Yeah what you are on about is game mechanics and if you don't like the game you can't do anything about it sadly.

Zanfer

@thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:
This topic in this thread is about someone not having fun in dbd cause killers tunnel. You can't really do anything against a killer who wants someone dead cause they will do anything to an extent to kill. Even though like you said that it is not the best tatic to use, not everyone who plays this game is an optimal player and there is no way around it. What you are talking about are things that are deep woven into the game and no reason to complain about them unless you just don't like the game.

Bullshit. Killers do not need to camp/tunnel to get kills, just like survivors don't need looping to escape a chase. You can play this game without doing either and be successful. The problem is the game heavily rewards this nonsense, to the point that it becomes the superior strategy and thus most players end up doing it because it works better (along with being easy, it's quite obvious why these are problems). The mechanics can be fixed and the rewards adjusted so that they are no longer optimal, thus requiring players to have SKILL in order to succeed.

BVHR seems more concerned with minor band-aid changes instead of actually addressing the core issues of the game.

Bro you have told me the same ######### over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. I just said that not every killer will ever play optimal cause not all killers that play on this game will ever play at top tier strategy. NOT ALL KILLERS WHO PLAY DBD PLAY OPTIMALLY>>>

EpicFailTryHard

thesuicidefox said:

@Zanfer said:
This topic in this thread is about someone not having fun in dbd cause killers tunnel. You can't really do anything against a killer who wants someone dead cause they will do anything to an extent to kill. Even though like you said that it is not the best tatic to use, not everyone who plays this game is an optimal player and there is no way around it. What you are talking about are things that are deep woven into the game and no reason to complain about them unless you just don't like the game.

Bullshit. Killers do not need to camp/tunnel to get kills, just like survivors don't need looping to escape a chase. You can play this game without doing either and be successful. The problem is the game heavily rewards this nonsense, to the point that it becomes the superior strategy and thus most players end up doing it because it works better (along with being easy, it's quite obvious why these are problems). The mechanics can be fixed and the rewards adjusted so that they are no longer optimal, thus requiring players to have SKILL in order to succeed.

BVHR seems more concerned with minor band-aid changes instead of actually addressing the core issues of the game.

this is the alpha and omega of the discussion.  nothing more worth reading.  i am not joking either.

marshmallowking

Not all killer characters are skill based.

How many nurses camp? How many survivors can loop the nurse? A nurse game is the closest thing I can think of that would reflect the criteria the op has listed to make the game “fun” my question is; are nurse matches generally believed to be more fun then vs any other killer?

this whole thread seems to be an emotional arguement vs a logical arguement, there is no common ground because no body is discussing anything based off a baseline of agreement.  If you want to argue about something as subjective as “fun” it is pointless, you would be hard pressed to list ANYTHING in life that is fun for everyone all the time.  Which is why people are bringing logical arguements based on current game mechanics that is ignored because you want to talk about feelings, which is fine, it’s not your fault you want a debate on game mechanics from a emotional perspective and no one has been joining you to that end.

I have issues with how many people in disagreement here have lumped together imaginary unquantifiable groups of people and presumed the thought processes of the group they made up.  I guess that’s fair since the groups aren’t real in the first place... but I would suggest everyone stop making generalizations since those opinions are rarely taken seriously by anyone.

despite being entertaining to read from the outside I don’t think there will be an agreement if the only issue that is recognized is that of appeasing emotional states. Just my 2 cents

The_Manlet

@Brady said:
Hold on, are Killers really calling tunneling a valid tactic then going on about how pallet looping takes no skill?

Let us spill the tea folks.

I would like a lengthy explanation on how skill is provided from wacking an injured survivor unhooked less than 12m away from you. From my experience play as a Killer, unless the survivor is hooked right infront of you, there's is no reason to chase them back down again and ignoring every single survivor in your path just to kill off one. Many of skillful Killers I've played against optimize switching targets and usually down and hook them, causing more of a stop to the progression of the game. Not to mention, multiple hooks on multiple survivors scream skill more than multiple hooks on only one survivor or vice versa (Multiple survivors hooked once).

"But... they are the easier target. Why wouldn't I go after them?" Here's your answer: Assuming they have Self Care, that is time that a generator is not being worked on. Time that if you're skilled enough, they get on a generator and the other survivor should about to be hooked. And the process should continue on.

Why do you all whine victim? It's established that tunneling, camping, and looping are all effortless tactics. The worst part is you ALL defend them and whine about them at the same time. Both parties want easy games and you guys are getting selfish, rude, and greedy about it. 4 BNPs = No skill, Tunneling an injured survivor = poor skill, looping around 5 pallets after another = less skill. Stop defending these poor tactics because they have great results.

And Survivors are really guilty for it, but it's more present with Killers of the fact that you guys complain about survivors tactics and abilities and go on to defend your effortless ones. You guys attack people who are 50/50 Survivor and Killer, and this entire forum is just complaining about complaining about the people complaining.

Pallet looping takes no skill. It's just running around in a circle around a pallet. Now, chaining together those pallet loops with window loops and maximizing your loops and minimizing the loss of pallets, that takes skill and is highly unintuitive.

Zanfer

@marshmallowking said:
Not all killer characters are skill based.

How many nurses camp? How many survivors can loop the nurse? A nurse game is the closest thing I can think of that would reflect the criteria the op has listed to make the game “fun” my question is; are nurse matches generally believed to be more fun then vs any other killer?

this whole thread seems to be an emotional arguement vs a logical arguement, there is no common ground because no body is discussing anything based off a baseline of agreement.  If you want to argue about something as subjective as “fun” it is pointless, you would be hard pressed to list ANYTHING in life that is fun for everyone all the time.  Which is why people are bringing logical arguements based on current game mechanics that is ignored because you want to talk about feelings, which is fine, it’s not your fault you want a debate on game mechanics from a emotional perspective and no one has been joining you to that end.

I have issues with how many people in disagreement here have lumped together imaginary unquantifiable groups of people and presumed the thought processes of the group they made up.  I guess that’s fair since the groups aren’t real in the first place... but I would suggest everyone stop making generalizations since those opinions are rarely taken seriously by anyone.

despite being entertaining to read from the outside I don’t think there will be an agreement if the only issue that is recognized is that of appeasing emotional states. Just my 2 cents

The op didn't respond to the part when I stated about "how are you measuring fun" cause you can't...

marshmallowking

The op didn't respond to the part when I stated about "how are you measuring fun" cause you can't...

I saw that, which is why this thread is so silly to me (entertaining but...)

 As far as I can tell op is advocating for no gameplay that is not what they consider to be skilled game play, something I believe to be subjective and only based on a personal emotional response.  

The quantifiable way of winning is either through pips or through killing in the eyes of a large majority of the killer base. that’s what he wants changed based on a personal preference how “fun” is measured for them.  

Any repetitive action or circumstance is boring and less “fun” eventually even any viable changes this thread could come up with would end up stale. These changes would most likely come from nerfs in the meta and buffs in the non meta (something that is already happening like it or not) or a complete overhaul to the game mechanics as a whole. A new mode of gameplay wouldn’t even solve this issue but I advocate for this option (never know when a not so interesting defense building FPS will blow up into a immensely successful BR with building) 

i think both both of our points @Zanfer is that the arguement itself is invalid because it’s unquantifiable, intangible and inconsistent.

Nick

It's the most viable way to play unfortunately. The only benefit you get from hooking someone is the 3rd hook... when they die. You know, one survivor less so less gens done. Whats the point in hooking someone twice? After the suvivors gets healed he's brand new.

thesuicidefox

@marshmallowking said:
I saw that, which is why this thread is so silly to me (entertaining but...)

 As far as I can tell op is advocating for no gameplay that is not what they consider to be skilled game play, something I believe to be subjective and only based on a personal emotional response.  

The quantifiable way of winning is either through pips or through killing in the eyes of a large majority of the killer base. that’s what he wants changed based on a personal preference how “fun” is measured for them.  

Any repetitive action or circumstance is boring and less “fun” eventually even any viable changes this thread could come up with would end up stale. These changes would most likely come from nerfs in the meta and buffs in the non meta (something that is already happening like it or not) or a complete overhaul to the game mechanics as a whole. A new mode of gameplay wouldn’t even solve this issue but I advocate for this option (never know when a not so interesting defense building FPS will blow up into a immensely successful BR with building) 

i think both both of our points @Zanfer is that the arguement itself is invalid because it’s unquantifiable, intangible and inconsistent.

You can totally quantify fun. It's called a Likert scale and is used in actual game research. It's been done, just look it up. But you don't even need that for this game really all you need to do is look at the comments after games, or on the forums, or on YT, or on your Steam profile. If people are didn't have fun there is a high chance they will be toxic. Then that attitude carries over to the next game and the next. After a while even games that would have been fun won't be because you are so tilted. And this toxicity grows because of the amount of bullshit each side can do to the other. Take that BS away and people would have less reason to be toxic, which invariably means that people are having more fun with the game. Granted there will be some people that are toxic anyway, but the point here is to reduce the instances of the game itself causing the toxicity. No survivor likes camping and tunneling. No killer likes looping and SWF flashlight abusers. Why you guys fight to keep this garbage is beyond me.

As far as skill you can also quantify that very easily. How fast does the killer catch you? How much map pressure do they apply? Do they keep you all engaged in something other than gen repair? When a killer can just put the first person on a hook and wait, even if the other survivors rush, that killer got a kill with little to no skill. It's honestly not hard to catch 1 person in an entire game. Chase them long enough, without them actually getting away, and you will catch them eventually. Winning itself does not equal skill when you use tactics that are outright easy and highly rewarding. IDK if you are aware of Akuma in the old SF series, but when he originally appeared as a playable character he was so far and above every other character in the game he ended up being banned at tournaments. Pick Akuma and you win, does that mean it takes skill to play him? Not really because he wins by using very easy and highly rewarding tactics. Chasing 1 person and sitting by the hook to kill them takes no skill, or at the very least significantly less skill than chasing/hooking multiple survivors, yet the game rewards the former more than the latter. You can't deny that.

The fact people like you are so ready to accept this kind of nonsense as acceptable behavior is part of the reason it still exists. People like you defending it as if it should be a valid tactic, when all it does is promote toxicity while letting less skilled players get more wins/pips that they rightfully should. Camping/tunneling does not belong in the game, period. You should not be rewarded as killer for these tactics, at least not so much that it supersedes the need to go out and actually do something to earn your rank.

No game worth it's salt as an eSport allows defensive strategies to be superior to offensive ones, because defensive strats are not only much easier to do but ruin the spirit of the game in the process. It's why FPS players hate campers, and why FGC hates turtling, because play defensively is a very easy thing to do and playing against it is a chore, not entertainment. Really go find me any legit eSport game where the superior tactics are defensive. You won't because those games nerfed those tactics so they aren't viable (at least not as a primary strategy). If you get put into a defensive position in any serious competitive game that's usually a sign that you are losing, not winning.

holywhitetrash

@thesuicidefox said:

The fact people like you are so ready to accept this kind of nonsense as acceptable behavior is part of the reason it still exists. People like you defending it as if it should be a valid tactic, when all it does is promote toxicity while letting less skilled players get more wins/pips that they rightfully should. Camping/tunneling does not belong in the game, period. You should not be rewarded as killer for these tactics, at least not so much that it supersedes the need to go out and actually do something to earn your rank.

No game worth it's salt as an eSport allows defensive strategies to be superior to offensive ones, because defensive strats are not only much easier to do but ruin the spirit of the game in the process. It's why FPS players hate campers, because camping is a very easy thing to do and playing against it is a chore, not entertainment. Really go find me any legit eSport game where the superior tactics are defensive. You won't because those games nerfed those tactics so they aren't viable. If you get put into a defensive position in any serious competitive game that's usually a sign that you are losing, not winning.

tunneling and camping arent the same thing
camping is when the killer never leaves the person on the hook which is also not the same as looking for the survivors the killer knows are near the hook.

if a survivor is getting camped and the other survivors decide to "save them" instead of doing gens then it is their fault that the killer got rewarded. if the survivors just do the gens and leave that guy to die the killer will probably depip

tunneling is when the killer is given more than one option to chase he always goes with the people who have been hooked, because dead players cant do gens

if a killer puts someone on the hook does his patrol and comes back to the hook in time to find you unhooking a survivor then it only makes sense to down the person who only has 2 hooks at most left

you wouldn't get mad at CS player for AWPing some dude in the first 30 seconds, dont get mad at the KILLER for removing an opposing player from the game

thesuicidefox

@holywhitetrash said:
tunneling and camping arent the same thing
camping is when the killer never leaves the person on the hook which is also not the same as looking for the survivors the killer knows are near the hook.

if a survivor is getting camped and the other survivors decide to "save them" instead of doing gens then it is their fault that the killer got rewarded. if the survivors just do the gens and leave that guy to die the killer will probably depip

tunneling is when the killer is given more than one option to chase he always goes with the people who have been hooked, because dead players cant do gens

if a killer puts someone on the hook does his patrol and comes back to the hook in time to find you unhooking a survivor then it only makes sense to down the person who only has 2 hooks at most left

you wouldn't get mad at CS player for AWPing some dude in the first 30 seconds, dont get mad at the KILLER for removing an opposing player from the game

They fall into the same category as "easy to do and highly rewarding", which by the way no one seems to be refuting (especially after I posted a video of TrueTalent saying exactly that). Camping is obviously a defensive tactic, but so is tunneling in that you aren't expanding your influence of the game as much as you are trying to preserve what you already have. You explain these things to me like I don't know what I'm talking about. Dude read some of my other posts. If you, as killer, go away and just happen to come back to see the guy that just unhooked, yea bad luck. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about a killer hooking someone, and either refusing to leave or leaving only to ALWAYS immediately come back for that guy. It is very clear when events play out naturally and the dude just has bad luck (or makes dumb mistakes, eg. runs to the killer after the unhook) and when a killer if clearly camping/tunneling.

holywhitetrash

@thesuicidefox said:

They fall into the same category as "easy to do and highly rewarding", which by the way no one seems to be refuting (especially after I posted a video of TrueTalent saying exactly that). Camping is obviously a defensive tactic, but so is tunneling in that you aren't expanding your influence of the game as much as you are trying to preserve what you already have. You explain these things to me like I don't know what I'm talking about. Dude read some of my other posts. If you, as killer, go away and just happen to come back to see the guy that just unhooked, yea bad luck. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about a killer hooking someone, and either refusing to leave or leaving only to ALWAYS immediately come back for that guy. It is very clear when events play out naturally and the dude just has bad luck (or makes dumb mistakes, eg. runs to the killer after the unhook) and when a killer if clearly camping/tunneling.

camping is only rewarding when survivors play like idiots , if you see some one camping stop trying to save that person and go do the gens.

in the time it takes a killer to find down and hook a survivor 2 gens are usually done, if that killer camps that player to death the other survivors have more than enough time finish all the remaining gens and leave, that killer will depip and at worst all of those people who escaped will black pip

marshmallowking

Ok.  I think I see a clearer picture of your argument, you want what you define as skill (something that is in fact a personal idea as to what skill is) and you want everyone to play in a way you prescribe and they better have fun because you have removed all aspects of the game that would be tilting (I hope that extends into auto aim and frame rates because those things personally tilt me more then game mechanics that have pre existing game mechanic counters). If this is incorrect please define more clearly so that the discussion can be more productive then us talking about things the other has not talked about.

i will concede that you can measure people’s satisfaction with a Likert scale (something that is already in the game at the end of every match 1-5 rate this game) and I would be very interested to find out how often it is actually used.  I have only used it in extreme cases where I felt everyone either had what I consider a good game or a poor game. I judged the poor game on connection to host issues not gameplay for my additions to the system.  And that is my point this scale isn’t accurate because it isn’t being used 100% of the time and when it is there is no way to narrow down what anyone thinks is fun or unfun to fix only that people either think I had a good game or I didn’t. 

I don’t agree that the minority of people that actually contribute to yt comments for example is a way to validate the majorities view point.

i don’t agree that a tournament example should be applied to casual games. Akuma was not removed from the base game, and I personally had fun playing with Akuma through several iterations of street fighter despite it requiring less focus to win.  Which brings me to my main point of disagreement; skill does not equal fun 100% of the time for everyone, in fact games within DBD that showcase a high level of skill Nurse games (which removes many of the things that you consider bs) are complained about equally or more than any other killer in the game. 

If you read read any of my comments on here I have not once generalized anyone’s view point and respectfully would ask you or anyone else to not lump me in with a group and argue against things I have not said especially when referencing my previous posts.  I have not said for example I agree that camping and tunneling are a fun thing or a valid tactic not even a single time.

finally, I think you would find it difficult to provide data that a majority of people whether they play dbd or have watched it played could be considered an esport, so I reject that tangent of comparison for the sake of the actual discussion which is removing unfun game mechanics in favor of mechanics based on higher skill levels.

MojoTheFabulous

Screw the Killer for wanting to play eFFiciently, right? Because that is essentially what the OP boils down to.

RepliCant

@MojoTheFabulous said:
Screw the Killer for wanting to play eFFiciently, right? Because that is essentially what the OP boils down to.

While tunneling is still tactical and viable, the most efficient way should not be the most effortless way. In fact, the most efficient way to any game should take the most effort and should be hard, quite frankly.

When I play Killer, I simply don't enjoy "hanging around" just to make sure someone stays dead, and you all say you do? What's fun is chasing people and hooking them as much as you can, not ensuring every survivor gets 3 hooks by tunneling the crap out of them. I just don't see how that's enjoyable.

Anyway, valid as tunneling is, we still question your abilities and skill if you were to not use that strat.

NMCKE

@thesuicidefox I made a post about how the developers should rework the hook. Basically, when your on the hook for a extend period of time, you'll lose vision of everything. It's complete darkness, you can only see they hook and your survivor so you can't tell if your being camped or not. It makes being on the hook fun and it adds tension to the survivor because you'll never know if your going to be saved or not. Additionally you can't hear the killer's terror radius as well to make it confusing when you get unhooked.

Basically, instead of getting upset at killers for doing their job, make losing more fun!

Lowbei

lol is this joke thread till going?

Zanfer

@marshmallowking said:
The op didn't respond to the part when I stated about "how are you measuring fun" cause you can't...

I saw that, which is why this thread is so silly to me (entertaining but...)

 As far as I can tell op is advocating for no gameplay that is not what they consider to be skilled game play, something I believe to be subjective and only based on a personal emotional response.  

The quantifiable way of winning is either through pips or through killing in the eyes of a large majority of the killer base. that’s what he wants changed based on a personal preference how “fun” is measured for them.  

Any repetitive action or circumstance is boring and less “fun” eventually even any viable changes this thread could come up with would end up stale. These changes would most likely come from nerfs in the meta and buffs in the non meta (something that is already happening like it or not) or a complete overhaul to the game mechanics as a whole. A new mode of gameplay wouldn’t even solve this issue but I advocate for this option (never know when a not so interesting defense building FPS will blow up into a immensely successful BR with building) 

i think both both of our points @Zanfer is that the arguement itself is invalid because it’s unquantifiable, intangible and inconsistent.

Yeah the argument just doesn't make any sense cause it is off of an emotion..

Dwight_Confusion

Obsession?

Have a flashlight?

tbag?

Have a name like JesusLizard666?

Get tunneled kid at the expense of me not pipping

dontcarekiddo

millennialsaretheworst