BBQ and Chili vs We're Gonna Live Forever
So BBQ and Chili gives you bonus blood points for Survivors you hook. This is your MAIN objective, whereas We're Gonna Live Forever gives you bonus blood points for unhooking survivors. You have a 1 in 3 chance of unhooking a survivor, and I feel like this is a big reason why killers get more BP than survivors. I feel like We're Gonna Live Forever should give you the blood points based on generators you've helped complete. This would mean if you and another survivor were on the same generator, you'd both get the stack, but you had to be on it when it completed. This would solve issues with people farming others off the hook right in front of the killer, while also putting it more in line with the killer farming perk BBQ and Chili. To put this in perspective, a killer has to get 4 hooks to get max stacks. A survivor has to perform 4 safe unhooks. Problem with this is you have 4 survivors all doing the same objective, but that objective is a 1 person objective, and it tends to lead to behavior like farming people off the hook. Sure if you get downed in the first few seconds after an unhook, they don't get the points, but I feel like players intentionally do it anyways expecting you to last long enough for it to be considered a safe unhook. This leads to two problems, you need every player hooked 4 times for every player to get stacks of WGLF. This isn't possible. The other problem is the hook farming I mentioned earlier. Forcing them to get their points on generator completions, which is a main objective will give them the points they need if they succeed in completing gens, while also helping to discourage hook farmers.
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Even without BBQ killers get more points than survivor as a nature of having more things they NEED to do. Survivors get to treat everything that isn't gens as optional and tend to not do it. They don't cleanse totems, unhook, or heal unless they want to. Nothing in the game makes survivors do the things that would net them more points. Killers on the other have to kick gens, break pallets, hook survivors, let survivors get unhooked if you want your full points, and close the hatch. Any time a killer doesn't do any of that they drastically increase the chances of losing. The problem with trying to compare BBQ to WGLF is the fact that they don't serve the same overall purpose.
BBQ gets extra bp as a bonus, but it is primarily a tracking perk. Killers also have other perks that give bonus bp in different situations, but also serve some other purpose. If WGLF we combined with WGMI then that would be better. As of right now it is just a perk that is supposed to be fore the person who makes the saves. It worked much better before the current emblem system made survivors fight over unhook points.
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@ReikoMori Either way the perk still is much easier to pull off for max points and it's definitely part of the reason killers get more BP than survivors. If 4 survivors ran it, it'd be pointless, and you can't establish someone who makes saves in a game you can't talk to each other in(unless you're SWF or on PC, since I think you can talk to each other in lobby in PC), so determining when and when not to take the perk would also be a problem, as 2 or even all could take it, and it's impossible to max points on 4 survivors with 4 WGLF, whereas a killer can potentially max his with a lot less effort. Combining those two perks would be a good idea, but I still feel like something needs to be done to bring it in line with BBQ and Chili as far as extra BP goes. They could remove No One Left Behind in order to do that for all I care as it doesn't seem to be that much used, or useful as it has a very specific requirement. As far as survivors not being required to do anything other than generators, I agree with this, and a while back I made a suggestion on totems where you should have to remove ALL totems to cleanse hex perks rather than just one, where essentially they would all be like NOED, they'd all light up at the end of the game but they worked as normal, and in order to remove a hex, you'd have to remove all totems. It didn't gain much traction sadly. Either way, I feel like tying it to gens is the only way all 4 players can get even potentially get the blood point bonuses, and it's kind of unfair to make a situation where only one person can max it, compared to a killer having the potential to max it with room to spare for more hooks. I would suggest totems but only one person can cleanse a totem and there are only 5 totems putting us in the same predicament.
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I think we're gonna live forever should also give you a token for each gen you repair being finished.
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the only buff WGLF will take its make healing to stack and thats it
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The main reason why survivors are getting way less bp than a killer isn't mainly because B&C.
It's because bp categories are terrible:
Objective- It's kinda alright
Altruism- Healing and unhooking... say them goodbye if your team is terrible.
Boldness- Hex totems and palletstuns are the main events how you will get it...
Survival- Everything else could be acceptable, but this... this is a joke, 5k or nothing, you won't ever get 8k (unless you are farming with a killer).
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@Tru3Lemon WGLF is the one that gives you bonus BP for every action from unhooking survivors. It doesn't increase healing. You're thinking of We'll Make It.
@LastShoe It may not be the main reason but it helps tremendously. BBQ can give 100% bonus BP A LOT EASIER than you can get 100% bonus BP from WGLF because WGLF can only be procced a maximum of 8 times with one proc giving 25%. This means that at most only two people can get max stacks whereas a killer always can get max stacks. This is a significant potential boost in BP. I do agree that the BP categories are terrible as well, but BBQ gives a much easier and very significant boost that survivors cannot get with guarantee because killers get it with their main objective whereas survivors get it by being lucky enough to get to the hook first while having the perk without farming them right in front of the killer(thus giving other survivors more time to get them off the hook instead of you).
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It gives you stacks for taking hits while healthy when healing someone already and doing the same when someone is injured and being chased by the killer. It's not just for unhooks.
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i agree but thats not enough
if wglf still have no actual effect
i rather suggest add more source of tokens, not change it
if its gives you tokens from chase won? thats also in object of survivors
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@AStupidMonkeyy But how often are protection hits a thing? Definitely not enough for 2 for each player, which would be required if every player got 2 unhooks as well, which would max out the stacks.
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@se05239 To be fair, the only reason I suggested this was because killers get points for completing their main objectives, hooking survivors(only 4 hooks to be precise) while survivors have to do actions that they most likely won't be able to complete. It's a 1v4 game, whereas Survivors have to do 4 non-objective actions each, which they cannot reasonably do, whereas the killer only has to do 4 objective actions. In a game where both sides were balanced equally, a killer would generally have to do 16 actions, since he is one, and they are 4. I could have suggested something like needing to win chases in 5 or less seconds for the killer to balance it out, but I felt like making it easier for survivors to equal out the ease of it for a killer makes more sense. Also, this doesn't promote gen rush, it just rewards you for doing something you would already be doing, like BBQ does for the killer.
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@Atrushan88 i think you dont get it the thing im saying i didiny say anything about well make it i said that since WGLF only works on safe hooks why not on healing for survivors example soneone its downed you heal him and you get a stack
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@Tru3Lemon Sorry, I assumed you meant make the healing stack from We'll Make It since it doesn't allow the healing from it to stack.
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This would solve so many problems, hookfarming is a real issue, and its primarily driven by both WGLF/Deliverance and just the fact that unhooks are worth so many points, in a game where survivors struggle to earn decent points, due to the nature of there only being so many actions that can occour, and its not enough for all 4 to get decent points, or very rarley.
Now this may be intended, to promote a somewhat valid, selfish playstyle but it would still be far better for players the way you described. The other major, major issue this would solve, is Q times and lobbies in general during events etc, giving survivors a bit more equity with killers for generating points. (Obviously you are never going to acciunt for just dying instantly and getting nothing, but in general) And people would play more survivor during events, I know that if im trying to grind out a prestige or want to get a good return out of the bloodpoint events, im going to try and play killer 90% of the time unless its just with friends, there is no incentive to play solo-q survivor during these times.
I say this as probably 60/40 slanted towards killer in 1700 hours, so objectivley, this is fair and would make sense as a buff.
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@Atrushan88 Your suggestion DOES promote gen-rushing, yeah. Getting extra points for fixing generators? You bet your arse that survivors will do the generators even harder than what they currently do. Its easy stacks.
Letting survivors get a WGLF stack on healing another survivor, on top of the protection hits and the safe unhooks, that's the way to go.
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@se05239 To heal another survivor someone needs to be hit by the killer. Then you have to find them first. It gives you a chance for MAYBE one more stack, but a killer WILL get 4 stacks in one game MOST of the time, whereas a survivor would STILL never get 4 stacks, unless they were doing all the unhooks. And again, the KILLER gets these points basically for free for doing what he ALREADY is trying to do. It either needs to be made easier for the survivor, or harder for the killer to be balanced. I'd prefer it not be harder for the killer, and do you honestly think survivors could POSSIBLY gen rush any harder than they currently do? Adrenaline is the reason for gen rush, and nothing else can possibly make them gen rush any harder. You can't increase your repair time without toolboxes(which they already use), and perks, which are situational. The only way gens would get done any faster would be if the person you were chasing stopped and did a gen in front of you, which can't happen. My idea only needs you to be there for when the gen goes off, not do the whole gen.
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@Atrushan88 Anything can always get worse. Don't tempt fate. Giving survivors a massive increase in bonus BP for doing generators WILL UNDOUBTEDLY increase the rate in which generators are being repaired. It's common sense.
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@se05239 Then I guess killers need their perk to be harder to get the bonus BP off of, because your idea will barely make a difference and killers will still have a massive BP advantage.
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@Atrushan88 Survivors are already DCing left and right, robbing me of BBQ stacks so getting it to full stacks is already hard enough.
As of my idea, it could net you three stacks off a single unhook. Unhook, heal, eat a hit if you manage to heal them up just in time. That's 75% bonus Bloodpoints right then and there.
WGLF is all about helping out survive. Healing others is part of that.
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@se05239 Killers generally go back to the hook fairly shortly unless they're actually in a chase. Getting the heal off isn't usually possible in my experience(Survivor runs away immediately, or the killer comes rushing back), and most of the time they go for the one who just got off the hook because they're already injured and it's the most logical, so eating a hit isn't usually possible. And that would have to be the most optimal situation, and even that would likely never happen. How often do you unhook, heal, and take a hit for someone off the hook? The healing may help a bit, but honestly even healing other players is a rare occurence, as there are med-kits and self-care, and you don't know where other players are without bond/empathy and that wastes another perk slot. This also wouldn't solve hook farming at all, which was my original intention with the buff, aside from it NEEDING a buff like this to even be close to BBQ and Chili in terms of BP gain.
As for gen-rush, I've already mentioned multiple ways to lower gen rushing or stall the game, such as putting entity blockers on everything but 3 gens starting off, while unlocking more gens for each gen completed(although some perks would need to be reworked).
@ToastfaceKilla Thanks for your input. Glad you like the idea.
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@Atrushan88 You clearly don't want to listen. Just gonna stop it here.
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@se05239 It's not that I don't want to listen, it's that I feel like this would not make enough of a difference between the two perks and would not solve anything. The only difficulty you experience from getting BBQ stacks is DCs as killer. DCs are eventually going to be fixed with dedicated servers. Survivors have to jump through hoops to get WGLF stacks, and only one or two at most will get them(and even then it isn't guaranteed they'll get even half). With your idea that will rarely change anything, and again, people will still run up and farm you off the hook right in front of the killer as they do now. No one would use the perk any differently with your changes.
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Bring back 200% we're gonna live forever! Yeah I agree, getting bloodpoints as survivor is way harder because you kinda rely on other people.
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