Gens.... What is the point anymore?
Since the EGC and the hatch spawning when there is one survivor left, I've been trying to wrap my head around the objective now as survivor.
Someone made a post that basically stated survivors don't really have a reason to get gens anymore, since the hatch spawns regardless of how many gens are done. It was an interesting post that started to make me think about why even bother doing the gens anymore.
Killers players makes posts about how they trash a group of survivors before 1 gen is done, but the 4th survivors got out through the hatch, giving them a "free" escape.
Killers complain about gen rushes, which can be felt sometimes in matches. Survivors needing secondary objectives, etc. However as solo survivor, generators are secondary.
I get the impression Devs want to give that last survivor some hope, since when you are the last with no gens done, the game is over. Having the hatch spawn puts some "entertainment" into a 1vs1 situation where the survivor just doesn't give up and go into the next match.
Now as person who plays solo survivor probably about 95% of my matches, I personally no longer see any value in getting ANY gen done in the match. The only time I actually will work on gens is when there isn't anything to do in the match and to get some extra points.
Otherwise I'm running around.. looking for totems... trying to save... trying to heal people... Cause that interaction is fun. Then I will look for the hatch if I'm the last one left... otherwise I die and move on. I have zero interest in working on gens other than some extra bloodpoints. Helping my team escape, why?? There is no benefit for me as a solo player. I don't care if my team escapes. I'm the only survivor I need to worry about. The hatch comes at anytime.... I'm not under any pressure to do anything I don't need to.
Now as a SWF player, generators are important. Since I would like me and my friends to escape.
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Who else plays solo survivor allot? Do you find it pointless to do gens to help your teammates get out? Do you do it for them or are you just working on gens to get points?
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I personally would just rather run around with the killer... get some stuns in if possible.. play some mind games with them... then die.
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TLDR... the Generators are pointless as a solo survivor, getting saves, getting into chases, then go for hatch. That is far more exciting in the game than trying to help teammates get out.
Any others get the same feeling or do you try and be a good "team" player?
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EDIT: Adding in a possible solution.
An idea might be to lower the amount of bloodpoints survivors receive for escaping out of the hatch. That might provide some extra incentive for players to try for the gate escape. Since some players, including myself, don't really consider the last survivor escaping out the hatch as a win.
Comments
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I only play solo, but I still do gens.
I know I get really irritated when I'm being chased for 3 or 4 minutes, but every one is playing like you and no gens are getting done. It's rather annoying.
You're right about only your survival counting, and if you wanna play this way, do it. There is nothing stopping you from doing so. However, I do not like to be in the same game for 10+ minutes. That's the reason I do gens. Besides, you can't guarantee you'll always get the hatch first, nor can you guarantee you'll ways get out via EGC gate opening.
Gen Completion is guaranteed survival when you get a gate open. I'll always go for consistency.
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I would rather my group live, not just me.
If you are a team player, that is the point of the gens.
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@PunL After 3 years of playing this game... Do you enjoy sitting there and holding the M1 the whole time? Or you enjoy it when the killer finds you and starts chasing you? Do you enjoy evading the killer? Watch them try to find you and fail and move on?.... That is fun.
The game that came out then is not the game it is now. As a solo player, I don't need to help you anymore, other than maybe save you, or heal you. That or run around sabo'ing hooks. That is fun.
There is no pressure to make sure 2 gens are done. I have no reason to worry about them, other than for bloodpoints.
The point of the game is to have fun.
The only time generators hold any value is when you are in a team of SWF.
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Again, you're assuming you always find the hatch first, which is not 100%. And the EGC can present a huge problem for the last guy, especially if the Killer decides to bring Rememeber Me, or the gates spawn on the same wall.
You're leaving way too much up to chance, when completing 5 gens almost always results in one's escape.
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Maybe,JUST MAYBE, you could complete gens so everyone escapes ?
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Doing gens creates semi safe zones on the map that the killer tends to avoid.
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To me a solo hatch escape as described is a loss.
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It... actually sounds like you are the problem here. You may notice a lot of people venting frustrations that SWF is a nightmare because some people just, refuse to touch gens for no real reason.
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In my head i still want to get the 2 gens done but that may change over time.
The hatch spawning well that's just to stop a stale mate and the game going on for a silly amount of time which makes sense but still can be annoying for a killer in that scenario.
Is the issue the hatch or is it the fact that a killer who can kill all before 2 gens are done is being matched with the survivors they are against? This can be equally hard to gage up as we're the survivors good or just playing around throwing themselves at the killer?
In theory that killer should simply be pushed away from those survivors so they aren't matched together so that hatch scenario becomes less the norm.
By doing this they could make it so each side plays the game and there is more incentive to do gens and then maybe they can put the hatch back to the way it was of needing 2 gens to spawn the hatch the higher you rank up. Then if the lone survivor doesn't complete a certain amount of progress on the gens over a set time if more then 3 are left they get shown to the killer and if the survivor can evade well the hatch can spawn after so long to end the game quicker, sort of like McLeans idea of the past for the end game.
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@weirdkid5 I still work on gens.. but only when there is no one on the hook... I might work on one if I'm on the other side of the map from a hooked person.. but I'd rather go running over there and make the save.
If I'm in a match and gens start popping in the first 2 minutes... I stop. The killer is getting rushed.. I start 99% gens for shits and giggles.
I don't benefit in helping my team escape. There is no incentive in the game to help them get out when all I'm concerned about is blood points.
Survivor to me is about cycling through matches as fast as I can to get more points. Play fast... die fast.... next match.
I have no concern for rank, since that is a pointless grind. The only grind that really seems to matter is the bloodpoints, which even now, that grind is so overbearing that it too is becoming pointless.
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@weirdkid5 nah nah nah... I'm not assuming anything.. don't assume I'm assuming :)... I'm just saying.. hatch as in, trying for it.
I don't care if I get out. I like the EGC animation and will run around looking for the killer so I can show the entity eat me.
Getting out is of no concern. The bloodpoints are nice and a bonus if I get out... but the EGC animation is worth losing the points over.
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Last night I played in a 4 SWF for the first time in months. Our lowest rank was 14 with 2 greens and a purple being the other 3 people. Average killer rank 16. Matchmaking sucks lol
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If all you care about is blood points... and nothing else, play killer. You get more blood points, and you arent actively ruining other peoples fun by playing selfishly. Just because you do not care about escape, does not mean the people you are playing with dont. By actively disregarding main objectives, and likely going for unsafe unhooks, you are infact sabotaging other random players for no reason.
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I mean yeah, I do that too. That's standard play. If no one is hooked, you do gens.
If the Killer gets rushed it makes sense to slow down the game if you care about bloodpoints and your pip. A fast game doesn't give you either.
I mean, helping your team gives you bloodpoints? Doing cooperative actions also gives bloodpoints. Protection hits give bloodpoints. If you care about BP, being a team player is a great way to get them.
Just because you go through the match fast doesn't mean you are getting more points. A game that lasts 10 minutes, but as a lot happening, will always give 2x or more BP than a game where it ends as quickly as possible. A better game is one that is both high intensity and quick.
Sounds to me like you are just becoming disillusioned with the game in general, which is understandable. This game isn't catered to long time players anymore. It's catered for the quick cash grab because they gotta make that money back off of Killer licenses.
The game needs desperate quality of life changes, but the devs refuse to fix maps faster than 2 a year. That will result in it taking 12+ years to fix all the maps. On top of adding more and more mechanics to the game, without properly fixing what has came before.
@Peanits please, you desperately need to try and make the team realize the direction the game is going isn't good for us old fans. We are tired. We want something new, something fresh. A Battlepass is not fresh, a Killer that is so similar to Myers is not fresh. Having to deal with these same loops and same maps for several more years isn't fresh.
The game needs a complete rehauling from the ground up. The game will only benefit from it.
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@Catbucket that is just it isn't it? To me now... Gens are secondary as a solo player where if I'm in a SWF group, they are my main priority.
Why do I care that the 3 player SWF group I got paired up with as solo, gets out? They will work on the gens for me as they want to get out. They usually have no issues letting me die in the match, since I'm secondary to all their members.
I don't have an incentive to help them escape other than saving and healing for blood points, since that usually brings me closer to the killer, which is where the fun is.
As solo survivor.. is there a "real" reason to work on gens? In the earlier days there was. You need 2 done to get the hatch. That was enough incentive for me to focus on gens on the first part of the match.
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I think these two posts here highlight the problem. Because the game doesn't really detail what constitutes a win, loss, etc., it ends up seeming like it's up to the individual player what the "correct" path to victory or loss is. So to OP, because they have their own parameters set for victory or loss that isn't even really disputed by the game, they are playing in a way that may not necessarily be productive to someone who has different parameters for victory/loss.
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@twistedmonkey you see I've felt that same way cause of the way the game was. Two gens needed to be done.
Even when the EGC came out.. I still had that feeling of doing 2 gens first.
However having thinking about it and play it more.... that feeling is gone. I dont need to work on gens anymore for a possible hatch escape anymore.
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If you don’t do gens you won’t be able to rank up past a certain point.
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Funny enough, I brought this up about a week ago in a thread. It's almost as arbitrary as the devs using "2 die 2 survive" despite the fact you can still pip up while dying. And you can still pip down while surviving.
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Again the solution is really simple here, dont play solo survivor, because again, you are actively damaging the experience of 3 other people every time you play. You clearly have no desire to play the game as intended, and thats on you. Its not the other players fault, and its not the devs, its your own personal problem.
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Except it is intended for the player to choose to work with their team or not.
Again, this is literally one of the selling points of the game on the Steam Store Page.
It's the SWF players that aren't playing the game as intended. You aren't meant to be given information by other players.
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i had a group of 3 swf and 1 solo.
and as wraith it broke my heart how they treated her. U could tell that meg wasn’t in the group. So I Tunneled the ash, jake and David to death. Let the meg fix the 3 last gens and let her escape. Then went on to tell her in endgame chat that I was sorry she got paired with some scrubs. Makes me wish I recorded it. Sad how a rank 4 6 and 8 treated a rank 16.
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@Catbucket I like to play both. I enjoy the chase and being chased.
All I do in killer is stack all my killers with.. BBQ, Enduring, Spirit Fury and Whispers... I find a survivor and I'll chase them... they can loop me.. and mind game me, cause I actually enjoy that. Sometimes they win, sometimes they don't.
I usually go into a match as killer, looking for 1vs1... who is the better player?.. who is the worst player?
As survivor... I enjoy being chased for as long as I can last. I don't usually last long, but that is fun.
I don't actually go for unsafe hooks unless the killer is camping near by.. and sometimes I don't bother. I would rather get that killer to come after me than unhook. So I have no problem leaving them on the hook to die. However I don't care so much for the 1000+ hour play playing in the brown and green ranks with me.
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Doing gens is my favourite part of the game. Wish there was a single player version with no killer, only generators :(
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The main problem is the newer players due to how the game is, they may just be scared and hide and why it should change the more you play imo.
Having a goal is certainly needed as it creates a sense of urgency and more strategic play or it's just farming for points and waiting for the hatch as you are doing which isn't the most fun way and it can skew the stats for the kill/escape ratio.
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@Catbucket I think you feel I want to play to destroy my team. My issue is there isn't an incentive for me to help them get out as a solo player.
I would rather be that one who gets chased and tunneled the whole match. If I super try harded this game that could be fairly easy if the killer just wanted to chase me the whole match.
I enjoy the mindgame aspect.
I love the fact the devs want to retool the maps to allow for more mindgames.
However when you take that into account, even when I play poorly it isn't hard for me to waste at least 2 to 3 gens worth of time on the killer... by doing odd and weirdish stuff.
I thought the main objective of this game is to have fun?
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@Redd I don't want to rank up.... that is another issue with this game I find.
I have no desire to rank up into the red ranks where I feel I'm gonna squeeze a turd out when I have to try hard in a casual game.
I can easily get into the purple ranks by playing the way I play.
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If you don’t want to do gens, use OoO and be the one who’s distracting the killer. If you complain that you‘re not important to your teammates and they let you die, I‘ll tell you: I would do the same. If I see my teammates doing nothing but totems and sabo‘s the hooks I would not care about them either, because they’re not helping to get out of the match.
I‘m not the „I need to save everyone and I even give my own life for them“ kind of player, but I still want to escape (since that’s what this game is about) and try my best so everyone gets out. I just hope your not living anywhere near me so I‘ll never get you as a teammate tbh
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@Neska It is more fun to be that distraction, don't like OoO myself though.
What I'm saying as a solo player, there is no benefit for me to work on gens since me working on them feels pointless, other than some extra bloodpoints.
As a SWF player there is an incentive for me to work on gens.
In the earlier days before EGC, there was more of an incentive to work on gens.
The hatch will spawn no matter what now, so as a solo player I don't have to work on them. If there is a SWF in my group, they work on them.
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Someone sabo'ing can save you in the match. Why do you think those sabo'ers are getting rewarded on emblems now. Also being chased while others work on generators gets rewarded now. So as a solo player there is even more of an incentive not to do gens.
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As a solo player, I don't care if you get out or not. I'm most likely going to die in the match because of how I play. That all buys players like yourself time.
However I wouldn't care if the killer dropped chasing me cause I ran by you while working on a gen. I'll be there to save you afterwards, and maybe heal you. You go back and press M1 on the gen when we are done. I'm gonna run off looking for more totems, or even the killer themselves.
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I'm trying to understand what is the motivation now for working on gens as a solo player. As I feel some of the motivation was removed.
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Well then you’re what’s wrong with the game
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It was the same thing with 2 gens completed. After the 2 got completed people’s would shy away from gens or even straight up hide. There’s no point having to complete 2 then. Just play as a team player and not think about yourself
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But why should I think of you? Playing as survivor doesn't mean I have to play as "your" teammate.
Would you rather the killer chase you or me?
You say I'm what is wrong with the game, do you get mad when you feel your teammates didn't help you?
What do you define as "helping" you?
In the past you actually worked on gens to at least there was 2 done. When survivors work on gens in the start of the match, are all survivors working on the same gens? 3 gens worth of work could be done before 2 popped. It all depends on the killer and what they do and who they find in the beginning.
There is no reason for me as solo to start working on gens at the start of the match.
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Who says I have to play "your" way? I find your accusation interesting.
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what’s a “gen”?
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@keenko I'm not sure if you're being serious, but in case you are, it's the short term for a generator.
Anyway, ontopic, @TheBean , the game's becoming a sought of class system at this point. People are falling into roles, and that's what makes SWF have an advantage. Their 'classes' will line up better then others.
But about classes, its best to look at the 4 original survivors for what a class is.
Dwight: Team leader: Does objectives and boosts team.
Meg: Decoy: Is meant to keep the killer's attention off the other survivors.
Claudette: Medic: Keeps everyone able to take 2 hits when possible.
Jake: Rogue(?): Is able to be silent, and sabotage the killer's tools.
We have a lot more classes then this nowadays due to more survivors, but these are the base 4, which interact directly in the game's mechanics.
Everyone plays their own class because that's their skill/preference. You like keeping the killer distracted while your teammates do gens, so you fall under the decoy class. Me, I can't loop for ######### so I hide, and like to keep myself and other's alive and try to get everyone I can out. I do objectives alone, but I make sure everyone else is capable of taking hits for me. I fall under medic, keeping myself out of sight and keeping other's in the fight.
Play to your preference, and only go against it if you need to pick up the slack.
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"Helping my team escape, why?? There is no benefit for me as a solo player." thats really sad to read. i always see the team as a TEAM. if 3 survivors die and i escape, i consider that a lose, because my team died. i go in again to save my mates, even tho i know i will certainly die. i just fell like thats what people should do in a team. but it looks like you dont see the game as a team game, if you are solo.
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Some people play alone for their own win. I'm a medic, but I'm a loner. To me, my survival means more then yours. If your survival means my survival, congrats, you have someone who'll save you over and over. If you don't? I might come save you if it has little risk and I'm not busy with a nearly done gen or a totem.
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Solo-only survivor here, and gens are boring AF. I still do them for points, but I've got to the point where I'll switch up builds for particular roles and swap them out every few trials just to stave off the monotony. Tank, healer, team buffs, hook saver, saboteur... hell, I've even started running a Jerk Jeff build reminiscent of Vega's Pallet Peggy for whenever I just wanna' meme around and be an arse to blow off steam. Anything to keep the boredom at bay (and have a little fresh fun in the meantime).
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if you play football or any other teamsport, do you just care for your statistics? do you only care that you score a goal? or do you want t o archive something as a team? if you have dont care for your team then survivor is maybe not the right side to play on. it is a 4v1 game, not a "1+1+1+1v1" game. i know there are people who just care for them selfs and dont care for others, but i highly dislike that attitude. i mean comon, are you really putting these 5000 escape points, above someone elses fun? in my opinion thats very unhuman and i hope we dont get in a team ever
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You are the random survivor my friends and I loathe to get matched up with.
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This whole thread seems like an existential crisis.
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What people forget is that DbD is not a team game. Each survivor can shroud themselves in isolation and follow the rule that it's easier to hide when you're alone, and hope the other survivors are doing gens like you are, or they can collect other survivors and attempt to work as a team. Both have benefits and downfalls..
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@keenko @AetherBytes @Pike_Trickfoot @Oblitiry
Well I'm just curious how many out there feel the same.
It took me a bit to become awaken to this concept. To remove the shackles of what is the "main" objectives.
Sure... you could do roles. I noticed that long ago. Some play as the mouse... some the healer... then those who slam the gens. I've played all those.
I actually felt BHVR was heading down that road. Setting it up as a team game where people assume'd their "roles" much like Overwatch.. or... whatever.
But over time.... I see the same thing.. randoms and SWF.. We choose our role.
I just no longer see working on gens as a role for the random survivor in the match. Why bother? I know I always have a chance for hatch, so I don't need to work on them.
The only goal is to get bloodpoints as a solo survivor. Rank has little meaning. Even with the upcoming changes, the battle pass?... or whatever they wish to "try" and reward us, by gaining rank.
I can earn rank by letting you all die while I focus on the hatch.
When rewards come out, I can earn a pretty shirt as reward for helping others escape?.. why?... I don't care for cosmetics other than what I buy with my 20K + shards.. or some of my cells. I got what I want now for the most part. There is no survivor reward big enough, since they are all the same... but different skins. Only the Killers are different.
If you, as killer, see me in my pretty shirt, I become a target, much like legacy is now. I hide my legacy, so I will hide my "pretty reward" shirt, for no one too see.
Anyone dying is of no consequences.. I suffer no penalty.
I play only for myself. I am selfish. I am solo.
This is "my" Dead By Daylight.
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@Keene_Kills I am like you, I randomize to find more fun in different builds.
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@Injuryble ooo... it is a everyone for themselves. How often have I been abandoned. How many times I've been ignored. I would prefer we fight one another for King Of The Hill. I see only one who should escape, and I see only me.
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@TheBean There is a point to doing gens. Bloodpoints. And any decent killer will abandon chases temporarily to scout out hatch, assuming the game isn't on the verge of ending. saving others offers BP as well, and getting those gates open offers a lot more then just jumping hatch.
I carry keys into the fog not to get out, but to get everyone else out when situations are dire. I prefer to finish the game through the gates, but in some cases it's not possible, so I treat the hatch as an emergency escape. It doesn't earn you BP by getting it, doing gens and opening gates offers a lot more.
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Sounds like to me that your in ranks that are no longer for your skill level. You say there is no point for ranking up which it 75 percent true, I will say this though you need a challenge so stop dwelling in the lower ranks and get to those higher ones and try that I'll just wait for hatch things. I play both killer and survivor and if I got you as one of my targets and I saw you playing that way I'd tunnel and slug and camp you just to ruin your one match. Yeah playing solo is a perfectly viable option just like everything I listed above but your hanging out in lower ranks that are far above your skill level and boasting about how I get hatch all the time because I let everyone else die as if you had skillfully avoided the killer and actually worked for the hatch. If you tried actually playing as intended I can guarantee that you will get way more bloodpoints then your quick and Quiet approach.
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tbh, I usually don't escape. I would rather be the last one left, but I'll generally die going for that last person on the hook. I don't mind making the trade on the hook. I don't want them to kill themselves off so I can get the hatch.
I also would rather the killer close the hatch, so I can run around and be eaten by the Entity. I enjoy that whole thing, that is funny as hell, especially if the killer is "loosely" chasing me, to prevent me from opening an exit gate.
Most of the times I don't mind the slug, I generally don't like it when the killer could have hooked me, but doesn't take the risk on the last person. I try not to do that, unless I have a specific goal I'm trying to accomplish in the match. Securing the 4K as killer is low skill move.
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It isn't hard to rank up, even before these last emblem changes, I would make it to purple ranks before reset. I don't play as much anymore, nor do I care so much about ranking up. I'm usually black pipping most matches, unless I had a really bad match.
When you save and heal people... win a few chases, you'll black pip easy. Touch about 50% on gens. I don't actually try to farm people off the hook as I want to put the heal in afterwards, and sometimes I'll take that hit, depending on who the survivor is.
If I know there is a "newer" player I want to help them get points, let them get out. They can work on the gens more though while I will try to save them if they get caught.
I'll look for totems... I'll goof around with the killer. That is my fun.
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If you think I'm a quick and quiet player... :) I am not. I am not an UE Queen. But I will hide... I will try to stealth around the killer. I'd rather jump through a window when I know the killer isn't chasing someone, then hide and watch them search for me. I'm not getting as many blood points, but that ######### is funny.
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I actively don't rush killers, especially if I think they are newish. Survivors die all the time, so I don't care if they all die in those matches.
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All I'm saying is... As a solo player you don't really need to worry about the gens anymore.
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Defiantly chasing is much more fun. And for me chasing includes everything. Looping, mindgames, stealthing away when needed. Yeah, to some point BMing the killer so he focuses on me instead of my potatoes mates who mostly die in 20 seconds. But holding M1 on gens? Yaaaaawn, boring af. Got bored by that in 2016 already. OoO was such a bless release for me, finally I was getting chased much more.
And btw, I rather get tunneled for straight 3 minutes and facecamped instead of doing gens, evading the killer and escape after 10+ minutes. The quality of fun in 3 minutes chase is higher than the quality of fun in those 10 minutes.
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I still do gens, I’m usually the gen jockey when I play solo.
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This is the reason the game has become so annoying, attitudes like "I'm the only one that matters ".... It's extremely annoying when you bring good items and add ons and enter a game of 4v1 and you realize everyone is running around like idiot's and you're being chased for 10 minutes but your so called "team " has done nothing! Or when you take a hit for someone to save them from their last hook, only to be left to die on your first...that's why there's such a huge difference between going in alone as opposed to SWF
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I hear ya. In the beginning players were conditioned with the idea of working on the "main" objective to escape.
Two gens needed to be done in the hopes for at least one can make it out. You worked on a few gens, maybe try for some saves, get chased a little. If you die, you'd hope at least someone makes it out. However the goal always was, to get yourself out.
You can still have the hope that someone makes it out, however now you don't need to work on any gens to get that hope.
I've been conditioned from the past, now I see things differently. I just took me awhile to see it. Even to this day I need to remind myself that working on gens isn't needed as a solo player, they have turned into the secondary objective killers were looking for.
Don't place too much value in your items or offerings. Use and lose them, then get some more.
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