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Should insta heals be changed? Maybe Moris also?
I find a lot of toxic gameplay comes from both of them. And sometimes things can get unfun for both sides. Not really complaining, just friendly discussion haha. @Peanits
Comments
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They’re too strong for how common they are.
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They are way to common and it was alot worse when it was the mom meta
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In my opinion they should be deleted. They are so fkin OP and keep the game unbalanced.
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Yea :/ kinda makes things a little bull. I love the kills so obviously keep them but maybe make them on final hook? Or make insta heals really rare to get or maybe just get rid of the syringe and keep the septic?
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Agreed, insta heals and mori should go completely
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Yes <3
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I've seen people offer a gradual heal over time. So you would use the add on and it would heal the full health state, but gradually over time so you can do other stuff while waiting for it to heal you in full.
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@fluffymareep I do like that change and mori's could be on second hook.
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They are both fine where they are. Stop whining about things cause you experienced it happening and couldn't counter it. The Mori is fine, as is the insta heal. 90% of instaheals are wasted anyway.
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Do you play in the high ranks? Of course there are chances but really good players can 100% ruin the fun for you on both sides with those...I play both survivor and killer and believe me there are times where I just say...whats the point? As someone who really loves and puts a lot of time into this game, I just wanna see it perfect.
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This is why we can’t have friendly discussions.
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Rank 4 killer at the moment, and I've been at rank 1 survivor and killer more times than I can count. I've likely been to high ranks more than you have. Instaheals and mori's are fine where they are.
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Judging people without knowing them lmao. Anyway how can you say that they are fine being a high rank. It has no sense. Do you even have ever found a good swf with instaheals? Or a billy/nurse with mori that ended the game at the first 4 mins or tunneled you with it just to mori you? How is that fun? How is that "fine"?
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I'll say it again - they are fine. As a survivor I see a mori maybe...one out of every 6-8 games? Sometimes I go days without seeing one. Get better, don't get caught. I don't really care if I get tunneled for a mori. It's a game, and it's not that common.
As killer, the vast majority of survivors who use them waste them by using them a second before they get hit, and only extending a chase by a few more seconds.
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Instaheals could be reworked into passive heals that happen over time. Keep them from being broken while still retaining value. Moris are just too much though. Being able to just remove 1/4 of the competition early is a really powerful effect for how little you have to do.
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@AStupidMonkeyy I'm not sure about grouping insta-heals with moris. To me, moris seemed more similar to keys. Both makes the game end quicker than usual in some cases. I'm not sure how people would take moris being relegated to second stage, too, though I'm certainly up for ideas. c: Iri moris stink.
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This.
Moving the mori to second stage removes it's entire purpose. At that point you may as well hook them. It would give more points and would likely take less time than most mori animations.
Stop trying to take the fun out of the game. There is nothing wrong with ultra-rare things being overpowered, cause they aren't that common.
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The goalposts keep moving. Too many pallets, check. DS is OP, check. MoM is OP check. Now we are going to focus on insta-heals. Why don't we just eliminate all but sole survivor and maps as perks and items. Then we can ha e 3 survivors start in dying state.
I quit playing survivor almost a year ago and play primarily as killer. I favor Trapper 7 of 10 matches and I don't have much of a problem with instant heals. I rarely saw MoM as a huge problem. Honestly, the only complaints the killer community had right were DS and back when there were so many pallets. The rest is just whining nowadays.
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This guy gets it. I agree, the goal posts keep moving. Look at DS and SELF CARE. They were nerfed...and then people turn their attention to Adrenaline. Like, come on lol. You keep asking, you keep getting what you want. How long until you want killers to have no weapons/powers, or until you want survivors to have no legs and be immobile?
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Idk if you read the topic well but we are discussing if deleting instaheals AND MORIS could be good for the game dude. There is no one killer-sided here.
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Both Moris & Instas are too strong.
They were made when the game was a whole different ball game & severely need looked at.
The Ebony Mori + Iridescent Head combo is terrible.
and any survivor with an insta can stop dead the momentum you get in a game from a down.
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@Groxiverde I read the topic. I fully disagree with removing insta-heals. Survivors keep losing tools left and right. We have to stop at some point and just get better as killers.
Moris, I don't care. Don't remember when the last time I ran a mori was. I prefer DH when I need to mori. More fun that way. Or Rancor. It's always a fun surprise.
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There's nothing wrong in talking about changing how moris work, though. The iri ones are no fun to go against and makes the game far too short for everyone involved. There shouldn't be items/offerings that make the game shorter and give you less points imo.
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No - mori's used to be a LOT worse. The mori was originally usable before hooking anyone at all.
They are not too strong, these days. They are uncommon and fine where they are. Same with instaheals. At red ranks, as killer, I see an insta heal maybe 1 out of 10 games. That's being generous. Even then, they're always used at the wrong time and completely go to waste.
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It'll only be ok if they both get removed.
Not just one, not just the other, both. At the same time.
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"No - mori's used to be a LOT worse. The mori was originally usable before hooking anyone at all."
What's your point?
"They are not too strong, these days. They are uncommon and fine where they are. Same with instaheals. At red ranks, as killer, I see an insta heal maybe 1 out of 10 games. That's being generous. Even then, they're always used at the wrong time and completely go to waste."
Again, what's your point? If they are rarely used then it wont matter that they're gone, right?
Moris are usually used to end a match as quick as possible, when every killer and their dog complains that matches are too short but they have the one offering that makes games last 3 minutes. I agree they're barely used, but they're still dumb as all hell, keep moris to things that you earn, not something you offer up because you're having a bad day.
and as for heals, I don't know what you mean by the "wrong time" but I've had a fair few survivors do drive by full heals before I can pick someone up and utterly destroy the momentum of a match.
Barely used, wont be missed. 👍️
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Moris, maybe. No to instas. I've had some clutch plays with instas.
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Of course you have, because they're effortless and undo a decent amount of work a killer had to do.
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Why should mori get nerfed and not instas? Provide logic with your answer. Spoiler: you can't.
Asking "what's your point" after everything I say that clearly has a discernible point only serves to make you look unfit for this debate. Just stop. This is just more moving the goal post, like the other guy said. It's completely unnecessary. Ultra rare things are supposed to be OP to an extent. Next you'll want Billy/Bubba's carb tuning guide nerfed, or nurses blink addons, or spirits prayer beads. They are fine where they are at. Not opinion. Fact. If you're getting effected that bad by them, you are a terrible player. Period.
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Yes to both.
Insta-heals lead to lots of BM since you can take no risk taunting the Killer while injured. Should be more similar to BNP, faster than any existing heal but still enough time for a Killer to punish using it at the wrong time. (I recommend 5 seconds)
Moris similarly derail games by taking a player out of the game way too early. They all should be limited to (a) the last Survivor in the match and (b) Survivors who have reached stage II Entity progression. To increase their worth, give Killers 25% more BP for each Survivor killed by the Killer's hand.
Basically, you can always use your mori if there's only one Survivors left in the game, even if you never hooked them, they give you BP, but they don't significantly save the Killer time killing Survivors.
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Fact. If you're getting effected that bad by them, you are a terrible player. Period.
Do you even play this game? Are you seriously telling me that a killer using a mori is the survivors fault, or that a survivor running to a down survivor to press two buttons is the killers fault?
and you say I'm unfit for the discussion? Laughable.
"They are fine where they are at. Not opinion. Fact."
Ya, ok buddy, calling me unfit for the discussion while not knowing the difference between opinion and fact. Again, laughable.
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Wow, such baby players these days, lol.
"Let's nerf this relatively uncommon items because I'm too terrible at killer/survivor to counter them" seems about right for the new, streamer inspired generation of baby DBD players who think they know how to balance a video game. Go back in time to 2016 - then tell me these are "huge problems".
What happens if I play survivor one day, and get you as killer, and loop you for all 5 generators, around literally the same loop? Are you going to ask for survivors run speed to be nerfed?
What if I play killer and get you as survivor? Are you going to demand that it takes 12 hits to down you when you die fast?
This isn't even about opinion. This is a bunch of baby players who want to be speedfed to victory. Period. There is nothing wrong with the mori or the instaheal. Stop trying to suck the fun out of the game. Any game that is perfectly balanced is boring as #########.
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why are you just wrong about everything
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Why do you block spirit players? Why can you never say anything other than "I'm wrong" without a logical basis? Why are you a player with over 3000 hours in game and only hit rank 1 less than a year ago? All questions I have. Shush, you have zero ammunition.
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I'd love to know what his counter is to an ebony mori & nurse tunneling.
"just hide and git gud duh bAbY pLaYeRs"
probably has 200 hours in the game when it's never been easier.
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A tunneling nurse has nothing to do with an ebony mori. Nurse is bullshit and another conversation entirely. The mori has nothing to do with it. I see what you tried to do by pairing a mori with a nurse as a hypothetical - but your entire argument breaks into pieces when you take into consideration that a decent nurse will decimate you whether or not they have a mori.
1100 hours in game - and obviously a far better player than you guys complaining about insta heals and mori's, lol
*that was my counter*
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his arguments are all just vacuous nonsense and personal attacks/presumptions but then he'll demand that you meticulously lay out a rebuttal to whatever he sharts onto the forum
even when people actually explain to him why he's wrong he just deflects and calls them rank 15s or something
it's honestly pretty gross
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Obviously a better player than we are because we know stupid things need to be removed for the health of the game?
Yea, change nurse out with every other killer and you have the same ball game.
But it fine because PALADIN_GOO says so!
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You aren't allowed to have an opinion - you do nothing but personally attack and say "I'm wrong" or "I'm bad", without giving actual basis for your claims, all when you're the one who advertises that they block people who play Spirit. You have no ammunition, and no basis or place in this argument, or any other DBD related argument. Zero.
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Change Nurse out with Wraith, or Pig. Same ball game. Jesus, I literally just lost brain cells reading that.
Good lord - I'm arguing with children. I swear.
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What are you even talking about? Change nurse tunneling with a mori with any killer tunneling with a mori and tell me how that is good for new players to experience?
You're clearly only thinking about the game for yourself and not others, while theres people that actually like to look at the health of a game as a whole.
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The game SHOULD NOT BE BALANCED AROUND NEW PLAYERS. That is why it's in the state it's in to begin with. It's the entire reason why survivors are as overpowered as they already are, and killers are largely clowns to get run in loops. It should NEVER, EVER be balanced around new players, especially this far into it's lifespan.
Just stop, now. You have ZERO clue what you are talking about. You literally forfeited the entire debate with that statement alone.
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In my opinion, they need to still look at changing:
- Ebony and Ivory Memento Moris
- Dying Light
- Tombstone Piece
- Iridescent Head
- Redhead's Pinky Finger
- Dull and Skeleton Keys
- Styptic Agent
- Anti-Hemorrhagic Syringe
Stypics should be pink add-ons, and Anti-Hemmorrhagic Syringes shouldn't be a thing. 1 health state is manageable especially on a pink. Two health states on a teammate is a bit too much.
Keys should only let one survivor escape; and the Hatch should be closed afterwards even if there is only one survivor left. If there is only one survivor left, the exit gates should get powered to compensate them. Keys are fine when they let one person escape. They are mostly not okay when they let 2-3 people escape out of nowhere.
Iridescent Head and Redhead's Pinky Finger both make it way too easy to insta-down a survivor. If you give me either one of these, it will effectively cut my game time in half as either character. Insta-down add-ons really just shouldn't be a thing in general; and these are both remnants of an older design philosophy that is no longer used.
Tombstone Piece makes it too easy to take a survivor out of the game super early. Judith's Tombstone is fine because it has a big downside and requires you to stalk 3 people (or 4 with Tuft of Hair). Tombstone Piece has no downside, only requires you to stalk two people, and has all the same problems as Dying Light and the Moriis because of this.
Speaking of, Tombstone Piece, Dying Light, and the Moriis basically need changing because they exclusively encourage removing a single survivor from the game as fast as possible. Since the game's design direction is obviously headed in the direct opposite direction, as indicated by everything from recent perk design to the Emblem system, they really do need to take another look at these. There isn't a single bit of healthy gameplay that any of these encourage or contribute to lol.
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Except I'm a rank 4 today being queued with rank 20s.
That game should be fun for everyone, instas aren't good at any rank, it's about balance for everyone, it's almost like you missed the entire point of my comment saying
"You're clearly only thinking about the game for yourself and not others"
"Others" meaning the entire player base, not new people, just wanted to clarify before you jump to your conclusions.
I have doubts you've ever been rank one on any side to be honest, poor thing.
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I hate that "it's fine, adapt" mentality when it's applied to EVERYTHING.
We are no longer in the 90s ffs. Devs can patch their games to make them better.
Something not being absolutely gamebreaking doesn't mean it can't be better and healthier. If you want a stale game that never changes, there are plenty of SNES titles for you. This is an everchanging game and it's great but far from perfect, and we'll always be able to improve it.
IMO neither are gamebreaking but both Moris and Instaheals could definitely be healthier for the game with some changes. I wouldn't put that at the top of the priorities list (please map design) but they're far from being a fun experience.
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None of that justifies nerfing things to the point of being useless. Insta's are OP, Mori's are OP. They are rare and ultra rare addons and items. Tombstone piece is even MORE rare on the bloodweb. Again, this is just moving the goal post further and further until the game is just a lame chase-em-up and no longer fun.
Thank god they don't listen to baby players, otherwise Nurse would have been nerfed a long time ago.
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for instaheals i think it would be better if they worked a bit like BNP. you go to a survivor, activate the item and you get a skillcheck. hitting the skillcheck will use the instaheal like its working rn, missing it results in the loss of your add on / the healing progress (whatever is more balanced).
just something that prevents survivors from running up to their downed friend and onetap them, while the killer is still in the hit animation.
mories, if you ask me, are fine. you need to hook a survivor before being able to apply the mori, which allows everyone to have a second chance. there has been a time where that has not been the case, during which mories were definitely overpowered, but that is long gone. they are ultra rare (at least the one that actually matters) and with the current gen times i do not think we need to restrict them any more, otherwise that could easily kill them (like the good old "only allow a mori when you hooked a survivor twice". i especially do not like that, since we're talking about an ultra rare offering that would do nothing but add a different animation for a survivors 3rd hook. that could also just be in a killers basekit at that point. mories would have no impact on the game anymore) and honestly: how many times do ppl actually face against an ebony mori? when i play survivor i rarely see those pop up...
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Rarity =/= Balance.
Just because it's extremely rare to run into a certain situation does not make that situation okay. An extremely hyperbolic example would be a rank 20 killer running into a team of 4 Rank 1 SWF survivors. Extremely rare event. Still not at all okay if it happens.
Facing something broken once in 10 games because it's rare does not mean it's not a problem. It just makes it a more infrequent problem.
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I'd be happy with moris being stacked like BBQ, hook each survivor once then you can illiminate someone from the game, then it's at least earned and removes the boring tunnel aspect of it.
Instas could be made to be skill check based so you can't just run up someone in the killers face and insta heal with the only repercussion is taking one hit to fully heal someone.
There, none of them get removed but they're healthy for game play, they'll get used more because they aren't a cheap mechanic.
I don't use instas or ebonies because they're boring for gameplay, I'd certainly use them if I had to earn them in a match, though.
But heck, what do I know, I'm just a baby player that want's things to be earned & not handed out.. oh wait.
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They aren’t even rare, my doc is finding one along with an iridescent king in every bloodweb.
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