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Simple Solution to the Legion and Ghostface problems
Well, it's mostly my opinion on how simple the solutions are, it is also my opinion on whether or not this balance change will be good or balanced.
Legion:
*Give them their old Feral Frenzy back. The problem with Pre-Nerf (yes, nerf, not rework. A rework is the fundamental changing of a thing. Legion was butchered) Legion was that apparently there was no counterplay and that there was a lot of exploits given (which is not the fault of the character, it was the fault of the player). Make Feral Frenzy feel better to use, leave the current base duration as is, AND BUFF the speed for every action WITHOUT taking away something else to null the buff.
Change the add ons. Currently the add ons, with the exception of the Iridescent Button and Duration add ons, is worthless. Don't even get me started on the pin add ons, those should have never made it to the game as is.
**Allow the Legion to see blood in Feral Frenzy again. There isn't really a purpose for that, but it would feel right and could help with tracking survivors that may have managed to lose you. It allows a form of reward for being able to track blood.
Ghost face:
Make Night Shroud infinite, hear me out. Make it infinite unless you get hit by a pallet or you successfully/unsuccessfully hit/miss someone. As it is now, it can be somewhat difficult to achieve much if survivors look at you. If the above conditions are 'met', Ghost Face will be unable to use Night Shroud for 30 seconds.
Make Ghost Face completely silent, if the above suggestion cannot be implemnted, then make The Ghost Face either completely silent, or reduce the noise you hear to his breathing. Also please remove the airplane noises from Ghost Face's personal pov, since it can be very distracting. That is assuming you listen to that second mark.
Raise camera height to match Ghost Face's head in crouch. In fact, do this for all killers, cause camera's to the chest is weird. But most importantly Pig.
And that's it. That's all these five killers need. With Ghost Face it's one or the other for paragraphs one and two.
I know, I know, my suggestions won't be seen/will be ignored since I'm only one. But honestly, I wanna at least be able to say I tried. Good day you all.
Edit:
*When I say "Give them their old Feral Frenzy back", this also includes being able to use the power whenever you want. It's non lethal, there is no reason for it to be so restrictive.
**Also allow for at least two missed hits that drain the meter by 25% and 50% for the first and second hit respectively. Or just straight up only allow two or one missed hits so you can be kind to the poor killers who lag a lot. For a personal example I went to stab someone, but then a sudden lag spike caused them to teleport to my left as I was swinging forward. Needless to say that mistake cost me the match.
Personal Note to BHVr
Stop with the practice of having to take away something when giving another things. This is seen strongly with the Wraith, where his changes were made completely obsolete because you screwed him over in the fear that he would be too strong. This is seen again with Legion, increasing their FF duration, and just messing everything else up.
You didn't even give Piggy anything to help balance out the fact she lost a lot of her fear factor.
Comments
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I like the Legion changes. I personally think Ghostface is pretty decent where he is.
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@ATerribleBilly You mean you like them (Legion) as is? Or what I suggested?
Ghost Face just needs a little more 'UMPHF!' But I agree.
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@Shad03 The changes you suggested.
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@ATerribleBilly Ah. A shame it won't ever be implemented.
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both at middle tier and doesn't need more than fixing
both characters most easy to play they shouldn't have high tier
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what you wrote about legion seems similar with me
but if they buff legions action speeds about pallets and window vault
its too easy to land ability hit, even its the only legion can do still legion have no downsides after that now it have 115% and low profile
i think meter regression from normal hit should fix first
they should make it bonus to meter, not regression of meter
if you hit someone you can't nothing about that survivor with ability
why it have to regress
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long story for short
1they should rollback useless killers instinct addons to ability speed addons
2no reduce of ability meter with normal hits
3second hitting same survivor with ability reduce killer's stun, why hit survivor twice only gives you penalty,now cancel it is much better option cause boost survivor but stun you same time.. also its not cool
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Honestly don't know what the point of removing the ability to see blood was.
Due to deep wounds not going down in the terror radius it pretty much nullifies the moonwalking exploits so it's kind of seems pointless to me.
The same thing would also go for missed attacks and needing a full bar to activate your power both of these changes were done to stop the legions power from being unfairly spammable however one could have done the job alone the others is necessary. (I'm mainly looking at you needs a full bar to activate the power again)
I feel like they added a lot of counters without feeling a how they would work together.
To hell the way Legion is now makes a lot of their add-ons practically useless.
Pins are worthless because you're actively wasting a lot more time and making your job a lot more difficult when you inflict the status condition and you don't really gain which will benefit from it.
Honestly it will be a lot quicker and way more efficient to hit someone once with deep wounds get close to them cancel out frenzy and then smack them normally then it would be to apply the effect then down them.
The exact same problem affects Franks mixtape however it's somehow even less beneficial as at least with the pins weakly justify the fact that you put a status condition on them.
Fuming mixtape was terrible to begin with when the ability was spammable and you could have easily gotten the information you needed.
They literally copy pasted the wraith's add-on without realising why it's beneficial on the wraith. The ability to cloak whenever want and keep a consistent non timed effect makes gathering information or whole lot more useful.
Legion is already restricted by the fact they can't use the power whenever they want but it's also timed even when you use frenzy in the regular way after hitting it a survivor there's a lot more things you have to be paying attention to in your brief time limit than what colour the gens are
The Terror radius change and the change that pauses the timer when mending pretty much killed stab wounds study. What's the point in using it when the survivor has a lot more freedom to mend without any punishment which is what the hell was meant to cause punishment for delayed mending
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"both at middle tier and doesn't need more than fixing
both characters most easy to play they shouldn't have high tier."
Soooo, you want more Nurse, Spirit, and Billys? Not having other strong characters does that. They both are no easy to play, not in the red ranks.
"what you wrote about legion seems similar with me"
Don't know what you are talking about.
"but if they buff legions action speeds about pallets and window vault its too easy to land ability hit"
How so? With how screwed up a lot of things are, you could miss, and that can cost you the game.
"even its the only legion can do still legion have no downsides after that now it have 115% and low profile"
...? What?
"i think meter regression from normal hit should fix first"
Have fun convincing Behavior. It's your line of thinking that caused this sort of thing in the first place.
"they should make it bonus to meter, not regression of meter"
Again, have fun with the convincing.
"if you hit someone you can't nothing about that survivor with ability"
Mmhm.
"why it have to regress"
Because BHVR followed your line of thought, wanting to keep Legion in a laughable spot by not buffing them, but keeping them in, and I quote from you "both at middle tier and doesn't need more than fixing".
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@prettyf Forgot to quote you in above post, so here is my response to your third reply as well.
"long story for short"
I'm listening.
"1they should rollback useless killers instinct addons to ability speed addons"
That's what we all unanimously said, but they want to keep Legion mid tier.
"2no reduce of ability meter with normal hits"
Good luck.
"3second hitting same survivor with ability reduce killer's stun, why hit survivor twice only gives you penalty,now cancel it is much better option cause boost survivor but stun you same time.. also its not cool"
But, but, they are good where they are, right? They shouldn't be moved above mid tier, right?
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I just want current Legion buffed, old Legion I didn't really care to smack Survivors 5 times over when I can just do it once and then stab them.
If Ghostface gets infinite Night Shroud stalking, his range of stalking should be much reduced, the closer you are, the faster the stalk, the longer, slower, once you hit a range, no stalk at all.
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Which is why I have it as optional. If that first one can't do it, then the second one has to be used. It's one or the other.
But you are right, there has to be something to balance it. The problem is, BHVR has this odd tendency to get it wrong, and make changes obsolete.
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I hate the New Legion, they are incredibly boring to play as, I have to hit people AND THEN RUN AWAY?!?
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I always thought of this funny idea that Legion had a built in Dead Hard, whenever they'd slash someone in their Dead Hard range, it's an insta down, kinda funny.
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well what i meant original addons were fine so thats why i called fix, not buff
ability speed should cost those same addons before
also with those rollbacked addons still have to slower stats than before
and no vaulting buff needs for them
cause current legion already have speed of bloodrust3
its unavoidable getting hit without chain any sort of defence option
if they have faster both movements its more than easy its free hit
than survivors think pallets and windows useless when they healthy
and legion is not slow killer now normal speed wm1 after that
legion have low profile and gives survivors blurry screen
still thats not make me play legion,cause doing wm1 in asia consider as crazy
well thats fate of wm1 cause low rank people get easy roadkill by wm1
and i said reduce afterdelay only for hitting deep wounded survivors again
its can't consider as buffing its fixing cause legion can cancel or whiff it to choose
not give backprint boost chasing survivor but does that gives boost survivor only
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While I agree with you that the legions add ons are pretty trash and need to be reworked, and I am indifferent about being able to see blood in FF, i disagree with the notion that legion was nerfed.
unless you count legion’s entire identity as using franks mixed tape with cold dirt/stab wounds study. Then yes, legion was in fact nerfed.
the devs did point out, however, that legion started securing more kills with their rework. Which makes sense, since legion was literally one of the the worst killers in the game without those adds ons.
are they the strongest killer in the game? No. They are much better, overall, than they were though. At least without having massive variances in how good they are based entirely on what add-ons you are running.
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yes everything right you said til yellow in asia and purple in na which.. most people
its dilemma of above that some decent players can crush any killer using method of wm1
either they maxed high or noobish theres fewer people in here doesn't saying like effected by statistics from their experience
i think devs shouldn't hear fewer people but sometimes they might needs varius ideas
and i believe they are smart cause they seems aiming at middle of all population
yes, purple tape was sooooo op but legion never weak compare to wm1 killers
oh,maybe only in korea cause they lain more with moonwalking
but now im doing nurse and almost all kills without patrol or camping in any map
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"well what i meant original addons were fine so thats why i called fix, not buff"
Even then the add ons were mediocre.
"ability speed should cost those same addons before ... also with those rollbacked addons still have to slower stats than before"
I have no idea what you mean here. Sorry.
"and no vaulting buff needs for them"
Yes, they do need a vaulting buff, especially with how the nerf wasn't needed.
"cause current legion already have speed of bloodrust3"
Where are you getting that? Bloodlust 3, if I recall, is faster then current Feral Frenzy.
"its unavoidable getting hit without chain any sort of defence option"
360. If I can do it, you can.
"if they have faster both movements its more than easy its free hit"
I don't like when people say 'free hits'. It's the same as saying you get free gens cause of toolboxes. (Okay not really but I hope you get the point.)
"than survivors think pallets and windows useless when they healthy"
Pallets and windows are the safest bet for a Legion who is almost finished with Feral Frenzy/attacks early.
'and legion is not slow killer now normal speed wm1 after that'
The Trapper is 115% ms, and can trap windows and pallets, yet he doesn't do so well does he?
"legion have low profile and gives survivors blurry screen"
The lower camera can also screw up the Legion, especially in corn. Also I don't know what you mean by blurry screen? If you're talking about the Deep Wound blood effects, that's nothing compared to the Clown.
'still thats not make me play legion,cause doing wm1 in asia consider as crazy'
Then why bother talking about a killer you know little about?
'well thats fate of wm1 cause low rank people get easy roadkill by wm1'
Low ranks, not high ranks.
'and i said reduce afterdelay only for hitting deep wounded survivors again'
What?
'its can't consider as buffing its fixing cause legion can cancel or whiff it to choose'
Let me reiterate, what?
'not give backprint boost chasing survivor but does that gives boost survivor only'
I do not understand.
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'While I agree with you that the legions add ons are pretty trash and need to be reworked, and I am indifferent about being able to see blood in FF, i disagree with the notion that legion was nerfed.'
The blood thing is more or less optional. But I miss being able to see it, and it won't change much, Feral Frenzy is non-lethal and Deep Wounds literally doesn't do anything. Legion was heavily nerfed, since the power makes the killer, and the power was nerfed.
'unless you count legion’s entire identity as using franks mixed tape with cold dirt/stab wounds study. Then yes, legion was in fact nerfed.'
No I do not, I've rarely used FMT at all back then. Cold Dirt is a amazing add on. Till it as well was nerfed.
"the devs did point out, however, that legion started securing more kills with their rework. Which makes sense, since legion was literally one of the the worst killers in the game without those adds ons."
I can secure a 4k with Trapper at rank 1. Your point?
Alright, let me actually answer the question. Just because they are now securing more kills, it doesn't mean they are fun, for me at least. I know fun is subjective, but it's not like anyone who complained about Legion actually play Legion. And that's my problem, the people who actually care and love the Legion were punished for the complaints of others. If I wanted to play a standard killer, I should'vestuck with the Trapper, at least the pay off could be better.
"are they the strongest killer in the game? No. They are much better, overall, than they were though. At least without having massive variances in how good they are based entirely on what add-ons you are running."
I'm not saying the Legion is now healthier for the game. I know they are. My problem is they over nerfed them and gave little to nothing is return. All I want is for Feral Frenzy to be made great again, I'm not asking for Deep Wounds to do what it had before. I don't want the exploits back. But I want to actually feel like the Legion is a speedy boi, now they don't feel fast. They feel, mundane.
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i can’t see where you aren’t coming from. They definitely don’t feel like the same killer anymore because they aren’t relying on their power for downs anymore. And their power now isn’t essentially just BBQ that injures.
their add ons are significantly weaker now. Why they didnt give movespeed and no vault speed add ons but did give us “increased feral frenzy detection range” I will never understand.
there are definitely buffs that the currently legion NEEDS. Removing the penalty from hitting a survivor with your m1 isn’t an example I throw out often. Why that’s even there isn’t beyond me.
making the button add ons worth using. Hell, make their purple add ons worth using
give legion some reward for hitting multiples survivors with FF (like maybe reduced fatigue?) and give a reason to hit a survivor with ff while injured and/or deep wounds.
My arguments was not if legion was More fun or if the change to them was healthier to the game. My argument was simply that legion is better now than they were.
a 110 killer who guarantees an injured state but has the option to hit a survivor 4 times at 125 is worse than a 115 killer who can do the same without the option to hit a survivor 4 times.
I dont believe legion is in a good place overall, but they’re in a better place than they were
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'i can’t see where you aren’t coming from. They definitely don’t feel like the same killer anymore because they aren’t relying on their power for downs anymore. And their power now isn’t essentially just BBQ that injures.'
I think what you meant by that first sentence is you can't see where I am coming from, I just wanted to make sure on that. I never wanted a killer who required their power to down, at least in Legion's case, but a power that was useful. The power isn't super useful, not because it doesn't give information, but because you can't act on it.
'their add ons are significantly weaker now. Why they didnt give movespeed and no vault speed add ons but did give us “increased feral frenzy detection range” I will never understand.'
Unfortunately that's because they wanted to make sure the Legion was nerfed enough to calm down the people complaining.
'there are definitely buffs that the currently legion NEEDS. Removing the penalty from hitting a survivor with your m1 isn’t an example I throw out often. Why that’s even there isn’t beyond me.'
It never needed to be there in the first place. But it's an example of the devs adding too much intended structural weakness for little to no reason.
'making the button add ons worth using. Hell, make their purple add ons worth using'
I doubt they'd do that. 'Legion is in a fine place' and all that nonsense.
'give legion some reward for hitting multiples survivors with FF (like maybe reduced fatigue?) and give a reason to hit a survivor with ff while injured and/or deep wounds.'
You wanna try to convince the devs to do this? Go do it yourself, please. I'm tired of trying.
'My arguments was not if legion was More fun or if the change to them was healthier to the game. My argument was simply that legion is better now than they were.'
Fun is the whole basis of why the Legion exists and why they were changed. Even if not your intended argument, it's still a factor. No matter how small. Again, Legion IS in a slightly better place. Unfortunately they are also not in a good place for the higher ranks.
'a 110 killer who guarantees an injured state but has the option to hit a survivor 4 times at 125 is worse than a 115 killer who can do the same without the option to hit a survivor 4 times.'
Assuming that you ever played like that. I didn't.
'I dont believe legion is in a good place overall, but they’re in a better place than they were'
Me and a lot of Legion mains agree with you. And we all just want to have Legion be made better. Into something that can actually break the meta.
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['a 110 killer who guarantees an injured state but has the option to hit a survivor 4 times at 125 is worse than a 115 killer who can do the same without the option to hit a survivor 4 times.'
Assuming that you ever played like that. I didn't.]
What do you mean “played like that” it is a description of how the chases MUST go. Changing targets and hitting multiple people is a factor of both old and new legion, but when you need to down someone, the older legion MUST chase as a 110 killer or hit them 4 times with their power. The new legion must chase them down as a 115 kille. Both chase survivors while they are injured.
There is no “other way” to chase. Iran Joyner like you can arbitrarily decide for it to take 1 hit instead.
——
on the first portion, I meant I can see where you are** legion is far different in his current form than he was. My auto correct, on this website specifically, is really wonky.
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at 360 part now i laugh hard
you really serious? anyone can do in here and 360 works til yellow
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i think you considered as yourself bad at legion
either pre-ability using to not reach thruogh defence options
or you said you can whiff sometimes
legion surely hit if you use ability after close the gap
isn't the whole benefits about legion?
from standard of ability? nerfed but still working
bushes? i think its different by each person
i minimal care about bushes when i do nurse shape freddy etc
and if you can hear sounds low profile is surely benefit
legion is half wm1 now, even with only duration increase you can secure free hit for using ability at close range
if that easyness not consider as free i wonder what you does when not using ability, i guess you didn't played killers before legion or not adapted well at wm1?
or..finally na players follow us? i think not that fast from my expriences
and i played 100% legion in my matches before legion became wm1
in asia red you can imagine that as na top players only randomely matching as survivors basically immune to wm1 so im playing nurse and all kills most times
few of green ping volunteers here which intentionally does wm1 killers
if someday na or eu players get good enough people not gonna using wm1
than lots of people talk about wm1s and devs may buff wm1s
so long story for short
1legion never had weak position between all killers in entire time
2they should rollback unnecessary changes but you demanding it totally free from vaulting buff suggest which already have minimum effort to land in all dbd killers if you know what you re doing, it only requires shorter distance than before
3current legion still only half wm1, not fully wm1 so its easier to play than others and wm1 is most basic easy form of killer play in this game so it can be your problem if you feel its weak cause other region players not gud enough to being immune to wm1s
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if you playing trapper you should knows maps and lucks
or if billy you have to know timing and perfect snap turns in lots of structures, maybe easier in us/na they looks doesn't needs to much snap to saw hit survivors cause basically they don't know what their doing
if you play nurse you have to know maps and distance sense of ability and massive op
cannibal is weak cause its easy to play
doctor is weak cause its easy to play, but it you know something you can make some pallets unsafe at moment
but legion is better than any other stealthy killers and easier way to make survivor one hit down, why you complain about them?
nomally i allkills like this, its not random it have order, cause i all kills most times in 1~3gens
they mostly random queued and good, cause they can ran 4-5 gens before all dead vs decent nurse like me without items, and other nurses can do same in here and wm1s all dead
but na/eu swf 4man queue full item in coldwind farm in mostly bushed map look like this, they used 4 of 3rd year cake so they didn't joked, it wasn bp works too cause i know best at it as original region of start it
or allkilled wm1 in autohaven and told myers unlimited 3 is op, much wow amazing
even they looks swf with items if they looks na/eu player i accept all cause much easier job
i think... your standard of easy and you can do in this game, it looks not limited yet
keep in mind we even talking use vpn to play na/eu server with massive 170~250ping calls leave to land of oppertunity cause easier with that high ping
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